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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/23/2007 1:50:19 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1661
Joined: 5/25/2005
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It is always a tell tale sign when someone claims that say the NIST said X but instead of posting from the NIST's actual writings they post from statements quote mined by third parties.
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Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/23/2007 9:13:45 PM
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RingsofSaturn
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
quote:
ORIGINAL: RingsofSaturn
wrong, that's what the Govt is doing.....
The governement is not the one expecting people to believe that someone figured out how to use nukes to take down a building without frying everyone around. The government is not the one who is attempting to get us to believe that jumbo jets didn't fly into the towers even though we watched them. The government is not the one telling people who saw with their own eyes a jet fly into the pentagon that they didn't actually see it. The government is not the one who is trying to convince us that a controlled demolition occurred when if you look at the actual fall it looks NOTHING like a CD. The government is not the one trying to tell us that there was no damage to WTC 7 when in fact a HUGE portion of the lower floors was GONE leaving the upper floors unsupported. Need i go on.
Wrong on all counts. The Govts trying to tell us some idiot sand people created the largest breakdown in aviation/military history, flying jet palnes around for nearly 2 hrs while we could nothing. Then with pinpoint accuracy, flew highly skilled patterns into buildings which then collapsed within a short time. They're also trying to tell us that they were able to identify 19 of these men within days of this attack, even though credible reports show that many of them were alive and well in S. Arabia.
They're also trying to tall us that its just coincidence that our Govt officials were conducting war games on 911 using planes being flown into the WTC and Pentagon...just a coincidence though...
The Govts trying to say that ALL the credible eywitenesses are mistaken and that we should believe them. We're supposed to believe the same Govt who used and planned false-flag attacks on its own people before (WWI, Vietnam and Operation Northwoods) AND sponsored and created terrorists and dicators around the world (Chile, Indonesia, Osama, Al Quaeda etc)
That sll the coincidences and inconsistencies of 911 are nothing to worry about...they're just coincidneces....
After all, its not out of the ordinary for the Pres and VP to REFUSE to testify under oath after the worst terror attack on US soil.....
All just a series of coincidences...and we should trust the Govt....
Yeah right !!!!!!!!
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/24/2007 6:40:14 AM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1661
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RingsofSaturn
quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
quote:
ORIGINAL: RingsofSaturn
wrong, that's what the Govt is doing.....
The governement is not the one expecting people to believe that someone figured out how to use nukes to take down a building without frying everyone around. The government is not the one who is attempting to get us to believe that jumbo jets didn't fly into the towers even though we watched them. The government is not the one telling people who saw with their own eyes a jet fly into the pentagon that they didn't actually see it. The government is not the one who is trying to convince us that a controlled demolition occurred when if you look at the actual fall it looks NOTHING like a CD. The government is not the one trying to tell us that there was no damage to WTC 7 when in fact a HUGE portion of the lower floors was GONE leaving the upper floors unsupported. Need i go on.
Wrong on all counts. The Govts trying to tell us some idiot sand people created the largest breakdown in aviation/military history, flying jet palnes around for nearly 2 hrs while we could nothing. Then with pinpoint accuracy, flew highly skilled patterns into buildings which then collapsed within a short time. They're also trying to tell us that they were able to identify 19 of these men within days of this attack, even though credible reports show that many of them were alive and well in S. Arabia.
They're also trying to tall us that its just coincidence that our Govt officials were conducting war games on 911 using planes being flown into the WTC and Pentagon...just a coincidence though...
The Govts trying to say that ALL the credible eywitenesses are mistaken and that we should believe them. We're supposed to believe the same Govt who used and planned false-flag attacks on its own people before (WWI, Vietnam and Operation Northwoods) AND sponsored and created terrorists and dicators around the world (Chile, Indonesia, Osama, Al Quaeda etc)
That sll the coincidences and inconsistencies of 911 are nothing to worry about...they're just coincidneces....
After all, its not out of the ordinary for the Pres and VP to REFUSE to testify under oath after the worst terror attack on US soil.....
All just a series of coincidences...and we should trust the Govt....
Yeah right !!!!!!!!
At least the governments story is plausible and backed with the actual events of the day.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/24/2007 8:07:38 PM
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draexo
Posts: 692
Joined: 1/26/2007
From: Saratoga County, New York
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RingsofSaturn
quote:
ORIGINAL: RingsofSaturn
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Executive orders aren't secret. The following link is a list of all executive orders signed by Dubya. Please show us the ones you are mentioning.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/wbush.html
I clicked the link and I see your point, its not there. However, that doesn't mean an ORDER of some sort wasn't initiated....perhaps its not officially called that. I KNOW that Rumsfeld change the protocol before 911...that I saw. But, I have to find it. AND, I know that Cheney was at NORAD conducting war games. Thats also documented.
OK, not an ex order from Bush...but from Cheney himself...
This Youtube video explains it all....and it has MAINSTREAM footage to back it up....
Its very disturbing what our VP was doing the morning of 911....he should be charged for his crimes....he had intent and motive in allowing the plane to strike the Pentagon....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em_XyTeNA1g
Was not the Secretary of the Treasury with him at the time Cheney ordered the intercept planes to not intercept the plane that hit the Pentagon? (This is what we are talking about, right?)
_____________________________
The truth will set you free!
TRUTH
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/24/2007 9:41:14 PM
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RingsofSaturn
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: draexo
quote:
ORIGINAL: RingsofSaturn
quote:
ORIGINAL: RingsofSaturn
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Executive orders aren't secret. The following link is a list of all executive orders signed by Dubya. Please show us the ones you are mentioning.
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/wbush.html
I clicked the link and I see your point, its not there. However, that doesn't mean an ORDER of some sort wasn't initiated....perhaps its not officially called that. I KNOW that Rumsfeld change the protocol before 911...that I saw. But, I have to find it. AND, I know that Cheney was at NORAD conducting war games. Thats also documented.
OK, not an ex order from Bush...but from Cheney himself...
This Youtube video explains it all....and it has MAINSTREAM footage to back it up....
Its very disturbing what our VP was doing the morning of 911....he should be charged for his crimes....he had intent and motive in allowing the plane to strike the Pentagon....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em_XyTeNA1g
Was not the Secretary of the Treasury with him at the time Cheney ordered the intercept planes to not intercept the plane that hit the Pentagon? (This is what we are talking about, right?)
Yes. But I don't know anything about the Secretary of Treasury being there...
Cheney and his wife were there.
Look, Cheney should be arrested, charged and tried for the deaths of those people who died in the Pentagon attack. EVEN if he's telling the truth...they died on his watch and its negligence on his part...involuntary manslaughter....
he could have stopped it but didn't. But, worse yet is the fact he was there to begin with. That implies Motive and intent which in any normal court a person would fry for. Put his old backside to a lie detector test and see what happens. Same with Rummy and Condie and other big wheels. I don't know WHAT they know...but they know soemthing....and we have the right to know.
Only someone in denial would claim that all these documented coincidences and inconsistencies are by chance....Ha, not in a million years...
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/25/2007 8:22:29 AM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1661
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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I have a question. Since when did the vice president have the power to hold war games? Answere he doesn't so not sure where the idea that HE was holding war games came from. Second question, since when does the vice president make calls about whether intercept planes do their job or not? Answer he doesn't.
quote:
Look, Cheney should be arrested, charged and tried for the deaths of those people who died in the Pentagon attack. EVEN if he's telling the truth...they died on his watch and its negligence on his part...involuntary manslaughter....
This statement is a clear cut admission by you that this isn't about the truth, this is about attacking everything in the Bush administration.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/25/2007 10:47:42 AM
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RingsofSaturn
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
I have a question. Since when did the vice president have the power to hold war games? Answere he doesn't so not sure where the idea that HE was holding war games came from. Second question, since when does the vice president make calls about whether intercept planes do their job or not? Answer he doesn't.
quote:
Look, Cheney should be arrested, charged and tried for the deaths of those people who died in the Pentagon attack. EVEN if he's telling the truth...they died on his watch and its negligence on his part...involuntary manslaughter....
This statement is a clear cut admission by you that this isn't about the truth, this is about attacking everything in the Bush administration.
Look, its common knowledge, reported in mainstream media that Cheney was there conducting war games. In fact, there were 15 supposed to take place that day. Vigiliant Guardian and Northern Vigilance are two code names for two of them. This is common knowledge man that was reported in mainstream media AND the 911 Commission report.
I mean, really Ever-Learning, you come here and dismiss everything I thats said about 911...and I mean EVERYTHING, yet you don't even do your homework or know basic, common knowledge things about it.
You're right about one thing. ITS NOT his job. Thats what makes this whole thing stink. Thats why I posted the thread about the role of the VP. Its NOT his job but he was thee, its documented.
You're last statement is not even close. Of course its about this admin, it was on their WATCH that 911 happened and given the circumstances regarding THEM...they should be investigated. All their stories are so full of holes, a judge would have already locked them all up. its about getting to the bottom of what really happened on 911. The key players ALL need to be investigated and seriously questioned....under oath and by an independent, International committee. Lie detector tests should also be considered for key players.
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/25/2007 11:56:46 AM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1661
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RingsofSaturn
Look, its common knowledge, reported in mainstream media that Cheney was there conducting war games. In fact, there were 15 supposed to take place that day. Vigiliant Guardian and Northern Vigilance are two code names for two of them. This is common knowledge man that was reported in mainstream media AND the 911 Commission report.
Show me anywhere that the vice president can hold war games HE CAN'T. There may have been training exercises going on that day but Cheney cannot hold war games. That is just a line that is parroted to make it appear that he is some all powerful man that could have pulled all this off.
quote:
I mean, really Ever-Learning, you come here and dismiss everything I thats said about 911...and I mean EVERYTHING, yet you don't even do your homework or know basic, common knowledge things about it.
Basic common knowledge? show me your knowledge, show me where it is stated that the vice president has any control over training exercises of the military NOW or drop it.
quote:
You're right about one thing. ITS NOT his job. Thats what makes this whole thing stink. Thats why I posted the thread about the role of the VP. Its NOT his job but he was thee, its documented.
He was where? Just because the Vice president is present to view training exercises DOES NOT mean he is conducting them as you would have us believe. I have seen news reporters at training exercises that i was a part of (yeah i have been through many of them) does that mean they were conducting them? 8 years prior to 911 i was a part of a training exercise where "terrorists" crashed a turbo prop plane into our base's control tower and have been in training exercises where we scrambled planes on intercept missions, although the F-15s usually got that job. Training exercise of all kinds of "outlandish" events happen all the time.
quote:
You're last statement is not even close. Of course its about this admin, it was on their WATCH that 911 happened and given the circumstances regarding THEM...they should be investigated. All their stories are so full of holes, a judge would have already locked them all up. its about getting to the bottom of what really happened on 911. The key players ALL need to be investigated and seriously questioned....under oath and by an independent, International committee. Lie detector tests should also be considered for key players.
No you specifically said that even if he is telling the truth he should be punished that is a clear cut indication that you DON"T CARE for the truth, you only want blood. So save me the speeches. You want the president of our country questioned by an international committee, that is ludicrous.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/25/2007 6:15:59 PM
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RingsofSaturn
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Show me anywhere that the vice president can hold war games HE CAN'T. There may have been training exercises going on that day but Cheney cannot hold war games. That is just a line that is parroted to make it appear that he is some all powerful man that could have pulled all this off.
There's a difference? it doesn't matter WHAT you call them, the fact remains that they were being conducted...and in fact using hijacked planes. If he was there or in charge, it doesn't matter...he was there and he's the VP. He has immense power...the power to command. BUT...its not his job.
Here's a PDF right from our military where Rummy changed the engage protocol. With this change, Gnerals lose their power to engage and Rummy is the one who gives the approval. This change, just 4 months prior to 911. Coincidence?
This is a PDF of the actual document to the joint chiefs dated June 1, 2001 in which the authority to order intercepts is placed into the hands of the Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld). Pay special attention to Page 1, paragraph 4a
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf
quote:
Basic common knowledge? show me your knowledge, show me where it is stated that the vice president has any control over training exercises of the military NOW or drop it.
Yes. fact is, he was there....and its no coincidence. I am wroking to give you mainstream reports of this as I know you won't believe it unless it comes from CNN, and then you'll still think its coincidence or parroting...
quote:
He was where? Just because the Vice president is present to view training exercises DOES NOT mean he is conducting them as you would have us believe. I have seen news reporters at training exercises that i was a part of (yeah i have been through many of them) does that mean they were conducting them? 8 years prior to 911 i was a part of a training exercise where "terrorists" crashed a turbo prop plane into our base's control tower and have been in training exercises where we scrambled planes on intercept missions, although the F-15s usually got that job. Training exercise of all kinds of "outlandish" events happen all the time.
Ah, so now we are getting somehwere. You military? Govt worker?
Correct, terror drills have been done for years but with the dozens upon dozens of anomolies and inconsistencies, it all adds up to a lot of unanswered questions. Overwhelming coincidences almost always add up to someone lying or covering up soemthing.
quote:
No you specifically said that even if he is telling the truth he should be punished that is a clear cut indication that you DON"T CARE for the truth, you only want blood. So save me the speeches. You want the president of our country questioned by an international committee, that is ludicrous.
Thats right. Its an International incident. Banks and other International businesses and their countries were represented at the WTCs. THAT makes it an International incident.
Regardless, the 911 ommission was a farce. Bush appoints well-known Globalist Henry Kissinger to oversee the 911 investigation? My gosh....PLEASE. Then Kissinger resigns and ush appoints one of his buddies? PLEASE...what a joke...
Cheney had the power to stop the plane that supposedly hit the Pentagon and didn't. One of the few true and accurate things about the 911 Ommission is that Norm Manetta testified that he was there when Cheney had 5 or more opportunities to stop the plane. Bush gave the shoot down order, Cheney balked....
Look, Bush and Cheney refused to testify under oath...then only spoke tot he commission behind closed doors and not taped. What do they have to hide? Why together?
Because there's soemthing fishy....
< Message edited by RingsofSaturn -- 10/25/2007 6:26:48 PM >
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/26/2007 4:47:55 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1655
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Here's a PDF right from our military where Rummy changed the engage protocol. With this change, Gnerals lose their power to engage and Rummy is the one who gives the approval. This change, just 4 months prior to 911. Coincidence?
This is a PDF of the actual document to the joint chiefs dated June 1, 2001 in which the authority to order intercepts is placed into the hands of the Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld). Pay special attention to Page 1, paragraph 4a
Pay attention to the 1997 version of the document please Page 1, Paragraph 4a:
quote:
4. Policy
a. Aircraft Piracy (Hijacking) of Civil and Military Aircraft. The
Administrator, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), pursuant to
the title 49, USC, section 44903(e), has exclusive responsibility to
direct law enforcement activity and may request DOD assistance in
responding to an actual or suspected air piracy (hijacking) under
the authority contained in Enclosure A. Reference a establishes
the role of the NMCC to serve as the focal point for coordinating
DOD assistance to the FAA. In the event of a hijacking, the NMCC
will be notified by the most expeditious means by the FAA. The
NMCC will monitor the situation and forward all requests or
proposals for DOD military assistance for aircraft piracy (hijacking)
to the Secretary of Defense for approval. DOD assistance to the
FAA will be provided in accordance with reference b. Additional
guidance is provided in Enclosure B.
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01.pdf
It's the SAME POLICY laid out in the 1997 document. It's only "common sense" that the head of the FAA can't just get on the horn and tell the air force to go shoot down some errant jumbo-jet. This is America- not Russian controlled Sakhalin.
I-I-I-I... stuck up for Rummy. :X I sense that the shiny side of my hat has been dulled and the stealth helicopters shooting psychotronic radiation at my head are making progress...  
quote:
Yes. fact is, he was there....and its no coincidence. I am wroking to give you mainstream reports of this as I know you won't believe it unless it comes from CNN, and then you'll still think its coincidence or parroting...
On another note if Cheney with his years of experience in national defense wants to go watch wargames then good for him and probably us. If it was "common knowledge" that he was manipulating anything it would be obvious. While it is obvious to me that he is a big liar he does have experience and expertise in matters of defense. I mean I never miss a chance to complain and bash Dubya or President Halliburton. I have never seen or heard anything like this on any mainstream news source or even secondary. You're sounding like you got it from Weekly World News. I only got that paper to look at the cute hairy apelike chicks that seem like they came from Planet of the Apes.
Now I sorta stuck up for Cheney. The power of the dark side is stronger than I thought....  
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/29/2007 11:28:25 AM
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lpt
Posts: 159
Joined: 6/8/2006
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
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RingsofSaturn -- you're amusing.
So even though Bin Laden has taken responsibility for the attacks, you choose to believe that President Bush committed them. And that "they" are all in on it.
What a tragic life you must live.
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/29/2007 1:34:02 PM
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RingsofSaturn
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lpt
RingsofSaturn -- you're amusing.
So even though Bin Laden has taken responsibility for the attacks, you choose to believe that President Bush committed them. And that "they" are all in on it.
What a tragic life you must live.
I NEVER said Bush or anyone was in on anything...
I merely posted the evidence that shows that something far different happened on Sept 11...
Osama denied his involvment right away after 911, then a tape showed up 3 months later. But, the fact is we only know what our Govt and Govt controlled media shows us...and either way it doesn't matter. Heck, Osama was trained, funded and befriended by the CIA, ALLOWED to survive and flourish...thats documented.
I live a GREAT life....I'm enlightened and my suspicions as a child and young adult are correct. All our Govts, ESP the US Govt can't be trusted...
Everlearning, you still around? You never answered my question...
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/29/2007 1:36:01 PM
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RingsofSaturn
Posts: 131
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
Here's a PDF right from our military where Rummy changed the engage protocol. With this change, Gnerals lose their power to engage and Rummy is the one who gives the approval. This change, just 4 months prior to 911. Coincidence?
This is a PDF of the actual document to the joint chiefs dated June 1, 2001 in which the authority to order intercepts is placed into the hands of the Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld). Pay special attention to Page 1, paragraph 4a
Pay attention to the 1997 version of the document please Page 1, Paragraph 4a:
quote:
4. Policy
a. Aircraft Piracy (Hijacking) of Civil and Military Aircraft. The
Administrator, Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), pursuant to
the title 49, USC, section 44903(e), has exclusive responsibility to
direct law enforcement activity and may request DOD assistance in
responding to an actual or suspected air piracy (hijacking) under
the authority contained in Enclosure A. Reference a establishes
the role of the NMCC to serve as the focal point for coordinating
DOD assistance to the FAA. In the event of a hijacking, the NMCC
will be notified by the most expeditious means by the FAA. The
NMCC will monitor the situation and forward all requests or
proposals for DOD military assistance for aircraft piracy (hijacking)
to the Secretary of Defense for approval. DOD assistance to the
FAA will be provided in accordance with reference b. Additional
guidance is provided in Enclosure B.
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01.pdf
It's the SAME POLICY laid out in the 1997 document. It's only "common sense" that the head of the FAA can't just get on the horn and tell the air force to go shoot down some errant jumbo-jet. This is America- not Russian controlled Sakhalin.
I-I-I-I... stuck up for Rummy. :X I sense that the shiny side of my hat has been dulled and the stealth helicopters shooting psychotronic radiation at my head are making progress...
quote:
Yes. fact is, he was there....and its no coincidence. I am wroking to give you mainstream reports of this as I know you won't believe it unless it comes from CNN, and then you'll still think its coincidence or parroting...
On another note if Cheney with his years of experience in national defense wants to go watch wargames then good for him and probably us. If it was "common knowledge" that he was manipulating anything it would be obvious. While it is obvious to me that he is a big liar he does have experience and expertise in matters of defense. I mean I never miss a chance to complain and bash Dubya or President Halliburton. I have never seen or heard anything like this on any mainstream news source or even secondary. You're sounding like you got it from Weekly World News. I only got that paper to look at the cute hairy apelike chicks that seem like they came from Planet of the Apes.
Now I sorta stuck up for Cheney. The power of the dark side is stronger than I thought....
Hey, i didn't forget about you old pal...
I'll look into this....but one thing is for sure. If key members of the Truth movement say the protocol was changed in a drastic and unusual way, I believe them. I'd believe the Truthers 1000 more than our lying, concealing Govt...
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RE: NIST admits WTC-911-Pancake theory isn't accurate- - 10/29/2007 8:41:25 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1655
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Hey, i didn't forget about you old pal...
I'll look into this....but one thing is for sure. If key members of the Truth movement say the protocol was changed in a drastic and unusual way, I believe them. I'd believe the Truthers 1000 more than our lying, concealing Govt...
No problem, it was the weekend. ;) I compared the two mostly around where you mentioned and in some of the add-ons at the end. It was fascinating though the SoD approval was consistent between the two.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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