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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/24/2008 9:14:43 PM
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GrahamCracker
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QT man said
quote:
...You said the kings english was not native to Africans or African-Americans. I disagree strongly with this. It is definitely not native to Africans. However for those African-Americans born in this country it is their native language. Unless they have studied and learned another language it is their only language...
I know some native Africans who live in the United States. Many of them speak excellent English. Being foreign born, they have a strong motive for speaking good English.
In many African countries, especially in multilingual settings, English is the only common language. I am not saying English is necessarily their primary language.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/25/2008 4:21:30 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/24/2008 9:50:02 PM
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GrahamCracker
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RCJames said
quote:
I humbly disagree; Ghetto is not a native tongue, it is a corruption of correct englis spoken by folks who are too lazy to learn english correctly.
When I was a kid, my parents, grandparets, etc. would whop me up beside the head when I used slang. It is too bad that everyone does not do that with their children.
Poor communication skills really do hold one back from their true potential.
Thanks
RC
Ghetto is a native United States English dialect. For heaven's sake, where else did it originate but in the United States? Certainly, not outside the United States. Truly, it has its own subculture. But it originated in that subculture of native born American blacks. I do not suggest for a moment that it ought to be encouraged, or even permitted as any kind of standard.
The difficulty occurs when the speaker cannot make himself clearly understood in Standard American English. It is compounded further when he cannot understand Standard American English well enough to get a good education.
In one sense, I agree that it is a certain amount of laziness. On the other hand, when one is surrounded with predominantly ghetto speakers in their own families or social envirnment, it is an added educational challenge that many African Americans have. But they should never be allowed to use that as an excuse for getting a good education.
To Everyone else:
When anyone reads or hears black English of over a century ago, many blacks today would rightly be insulted. They either don't speak that way or never actually heard anyone speak that way. But apparently, some blacks of a century ago did speak something very similar to what was characterized in minstrel shows.
But when encouraged to reject black ghetto English (it is often more incoherent), "Political Correctness" gives them an excuse to permit its use. Furthermore, political correctness encourages it.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/24/2008 9:57:20 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 8:05:33 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
Just like there is a country dialect, a new englander dialect.
These are not dialects. These are accents. Proper grammar is proper grammar no matter the accent.
quote:
My native tongue is ghetto. Northern , urban, inner city black english.
Ok. I know a young black man at work who speaks this "black language". Fact is, he cannot communicate his desires well because his dialect is a dumbing down of the language. He cannot put three words together to make a sentence. He can't communicate complicated ideals without some form of mental imaging. He has no ability to wordsmith...at all.
quote:
When I was a kid, my parents, grandparets, etc. would whop me up beside the head when I used slang.
Amen. I think, unfortunatly many african americans see their "language" as a form of culture. I see it as the acceptance of ignorance. A promotion of seperation and in some forms, racisms.
Like I said before a well spoken black man at work was ostrisized by another black person because he spoke well. To her, he was cowtowing to the white man, in a way. An uncle Tom.
quote:
The difficulty occurs when the speaker cannot make himself clearly understood in Standard American English. It is compounded further when he cannot understand Standard American English well enough to get a good education.
amen
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 9:51:08 AM
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tracydolls
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When I am at home in my native surroundings, I speak ghetto, at that point who cares what others think? Can whom I am talking to understand me?
Yes.
speaking ghetto has never hurt me. I got a good education and went on to be a teacher. Most all the kids being ghetto, everyone understood me. Other teachers would ask what are they saying, I would interpret for them.
I believe EBONICS is an recognized language.
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 5/25/2008 9:58:38 AM >
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 9:53:01 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Tracydolls said
quote:
...You said the kings english was not native to Africans or African-Americans. I disagree strongly with this. It is definitely not native to Africans. However for those African-Americans born in this country it is their native language. Unless they have studied and learned another language it is their only language...
Graham cracker,
I did not say this. I believe QTman did.
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 9:54:56 AM
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DenimDiva
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I guess I really don't understand speaking one way at home and speaking another way in public.
We want our children to be the best that they can be. Shouldn't that training begin at home?
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 12:54:38 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I guess I really don't understand speaking one way at home and speaking another way in public.
We want our children to be the best that they can be. Shouldn't that training begin at home?
I tend to do that, but it also depends on whom I'm talking to. At home I can speak "ghetto," but if a friend speaks ghetto I can also talk to him/her that way. Most of the time I do it and don't realize it. I think, in my case, it's just adapting to whom I'm around.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 4:17:40 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Graham cracker,
I did not say this. I believe QTman did.
Sorry. I made the correction.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 5:44:40 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
It’s standing on the corner. It can’t speak English. It doesn’t want to speak English. I can’t even talk the way these people talk. “Why you ain’t where you is go, ra.” I don’t know who these people are. And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. Then I heard the father talk. This is all in the house. You used to talk a certain way on the corner and you got into the house and switched to English. Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t land a plane with, “Why you ain’t…” You can’t be a doctor with that kind of Edited TOS 5 coming out of your mouth. There is no Bible that has that kind of language. Where did these people get the idea that they’re moving ahead on this. Well, they know they’re not; they’re just hanging out in the same place, five or six generations sitting in the projects when you’re just supposed to stay there long enough to get a job and move out.
Bill Cosby
< Message edited by Kath -- 5/26/2008 2:45:24 PM >
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 7:45:57 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Bill Cosby
so you listen to a frightened atheist and a lover of prostitiutes who REFUSED to march with MLK. Been going to the Playboy Mansion since the '60's
http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=72268
LIVE the LIFESTYLE through interviews with mansion regulars like Bill Maher, Pamela Anderson, Drew Carey and Bill Cosby!
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 7:49:26 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
I guess I really don't understand speaking one way at home and speaking another way in public.
We want our children to be the best that they can be. Shouldn't that training begin at home?
I think if you go to alot of homes, children might talk their native language and english when they are out and about.
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/25/2008 11:42:52 PM
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tracydolls
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eygv8qEkiFE&feature=related
Planned parenthood busted for taking "racist" donations.
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 2:51:19 AM
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SonInMe1
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Mr. Cosby wasn't the subject but it was a nice distraction from the topic.
What he said certainly was dead on fact.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 5:27:17 AM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Bill Cosby
so you listen to a frightened atheist and a lover of prostitiutes who REFUSED to march with MLK. Been going to the Playboy Mansion since the '60's
Tracy,
One of the things I learned in my book on logic is that we should not disregard a person's POV just because they are doing unchristian things. It's fallacious reasoning. Whether or not Bill Cosby is an atheist is entirely irrelevant as to whether or not he's correct concerning those things.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 9:40:02 AM
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lexie
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quote:
the King's English is not native to any African or African American.
I know this is from further back, but I think you are overlooking a portion of the African diaspora. My husband's native language is the King's English. It is the only language he and many generations of his family have ever known. And my husband is as much a part of the African diaspora as anyone else.
As for "ghetto" not being a dialect, why not? In many Caribbean islands, patois is a recognized dialect. Isn't that the same thing as "ghetto"? Proper English is taught in the schools, spoken in government, but on the streets and in the homes, people of every race speak patois.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 11:10:46 AM
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DenimDiva
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
I guess I really don't understand speaking one way at home and speaking another way in public.
We want our children to be the best that they can be. Shouldn't that training begin at home?
I think if you go to alot of homes, children might talk their native language and English when they are out and about.
It used to be that American parents pushed their children to learn proper English skills, even if they weren't born in an English speaking country.
Do we need signs in Ebonics now?
I have a friend who went to Mexico on a missions trip. When they returned to the US, I was helping them unpack. I couldn't believe the shampoo bottles, etc. that only had Spanish writing on them. My friend's response was, "Yes, and we still knew not to eat it or put it in our eyes."
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 12:52:37 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
I believe EBONICS is an recognized language.
For some reason, I remember hearing a few years ago that a college (or maybe more) were teaching ebonics as a class...for actual credit.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
"Sometimes I Wonder Why" (Blog entry)
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 1:32:28 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
I believe EBONICS is an recognized language.
Ebonics is not a recognized language. It's actually a slang term for an actual dialect--African American Vernacular English.
_____________________________
CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 1:39:42 PM
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stellaluna
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I would highly recommend at this point that everyone look in their local PBS listings for a series called "Do You Speak American?" It's a series that explores all the different dialects in the United States.
If you met me, you probably couldn't guess where I've grown up. But I can lapse into the dialect and accent of my region in the blink of an eye. It's just that in this country, there is no excuse for not being able to speak, read and write proper English, no matter what you speak at home or with your friends. If you can't, I say it boils down to simple laziness.
(And whoever said earlier that there was no New England dialect--just accent...there is in fact something called "Boston English" that is a dialect that covers Massachusetts and much of the rest of New England. As soon as you hear someone ask for the "bubblah"...you'll know you're hearing a dialect and not just a particular inflection.)
Edited TOS 5
< Message edited by Kath -- 5/26/2008 3:19:40 PM >
_____________________________
CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 2:03:17 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Tracy,
One of the things I learned in my book on logic is that we should not disregard a person's POV just because they are doing unchristian things. It's fallacious reasoning. Whether or not Bill Cosby is an atheist is entirely irrelevant as to whether or not he's correct concerning those things.
He said
"Jesus don't love you" in that same speech. To those children, sorry but he can keep that nonsense.
I refuse to listen to anyone like that. Some one has to teach them the language of the Bible.
We should not be teaching them that"Jesus don't love them"
I've learned that you cannot partake of the Lord's table and the table of devils.
There are so many better leaders. He still goes to Playboy Mansion and in fact just punched one of the Smothers Brothers for pointing out that he did not help when he could have during the Civil Rights Movement.
Like I said no one listens to him. He is not a good example for anyone.
I don't care what he says. Wheather any truth or not.
Myself -I've gotten to the point where I don't listen to them if they anti-christ, don't believe in Christ, etc. Oprah, Bill, etc.
Me and my House will serve the Lord.
Now if we saying our prayers in "Ghetto," that's ok, the Lord understands!
Edited TOS 5
< Message edited by Kath -- 5/26/2008 3:11:07 PM >
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 2:07:52 PM
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tracydolls
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From Wiki
"""The term "Ebonics", a portmanteau of "ebony" and "phonics", was originally intended and sometimes used for the language of all people of African ancestry, or for that of Black North American and West African people, emphasizing the African roots of the former; since 1996 it has been largely used to refer to African American Vernacular English (distinctively nonstandard Black United States English), emphasizing the independence of the latter from (standard) English.""
the phonics of Ebony people.
Here's a word: fina
I'm fina go to my aunt's house to eat.
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 2:20:52 PM
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stellaluna
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"Finna" is actually a shortened form of "fixing/fixin' to" which is part of the southern dialect and can be heard throughout the south and into Texas. I know plenty of white people who say that word, by the way.
I don't personally care what anyone's dialect is, I still maintain that every American should be able to communicate using proper English. To refuse to or to be unable to is simple laziness and lack of education.
_____________________________
CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 2:23:23 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
I heard that. And I've believed that for years, long before the the recent phone calls.
It's amazing how racist the early population control advocates were. Actually on both sides of the debate--the common problem was "too many brown and yellow people". Birth control advocates wanted to get in and stop them from breeding. "Pro-natalists" wanted to out-breed them. All to make sure the "superior" white race wasn't overrun by the "socially unfit".
What happened with the phone calls is not in the least bit surprising to me.
Yet another reason to have a whole horde of lovely brown babies. I should take my kids down with me to the prayer vigils at the local PP one of these days.
I found the article in a Church Bulletin yesterday at Church. I was a little surprised. But Eugenics is being pushed again. There's more videos, not just that state.
I'm like WOW. To get caught red-headed
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
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RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread - 5/26/2008 2:32:30 PM
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DenimDiva
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I don't personally care what anyone's dialect is, I still maintain that every American should be able to communicate using proper English. To refuse to or to be unable to is simple laziness and lack of education.
I agree!
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I should take my kids down with me to the prayer vigils at the local PP one of these days.
