RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread

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Matt Smith -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/23/2007 9:58:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 quote: things happen that would be impossible to prove in court. Then how serious is it? If there are no demonstrable damages, is it racism? Are you kidding? Lots of criminals try not to leave any evidence. That doesn't stop their actions from being a crime. Consider an accused date rapist who muddies the history by claiming mutual consent. Consider a thief who wears gloves, to avoid leaving fingerprints. Or consider a racist who makes sure there are no witnesses and nothing in writing. The resulting lack of evidence doesn't diminish the crime or the damages. Matt

Matt Smith -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/23/2007 10:56:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zamdad quote: Matt Smith For the record -- I see a lot of people repeating the same positions over and over again, from thread to thread. And I haven't seen much in the way of good old-fashioned listening to learn from the experiences of others... or from current research about the issue of race in American society. I've paid attention to the research, and I've had personal experiences. Racism's alive and well in American society. Not like it was 200 years ago, or 100, or 50 -- but very much an issue today as well. It's sad and discouraging to see people ignore or dismiss all the evidence that racism is a problem. And it's beneath us as a society. It's sad to see people offer brief prescriptions, based largely on the idea that they won't have to personally do anything about racism, and the problem lies with others. I think that's beneath us, too. I'll continue to post in solidarity and in hope. I'll continue to take personal responsibility, as a member of society, for the role I can play in dismantling racism. That's what I'd want others to do for me, if I were being treated unjustly. I have to agree with RC. Nice generalizing post. As I stated in my earlier post, we all come at this issue from personal experience. While we can educate ourselves and convince ourselves that we are experts, our personal experience regarding a given issue is going to be our guiding influence in how we percieve things. I'm curious, Matt, about your personal experiences with this issue. I know from perviosu conversations with you that you consider yurself a minority. We have another one stop thread for that topic. Since our experience shapes our worldview and most people on here are followers of Christ, I'm curious how you have experienced racism and what shpes your paradigm on this issue. With all due respect to both of you, I've posted specifics in other threads. (e.g. pages 5 and 6 of this one.) It would be nice if I'd gotten multiple replies to each of those posts, responding to the points I was making. But instead, they were largely ignored... and now I get multiple replies to my above post, criticizing me for not being more specific. Zamdad, RC, what should I make of that? I'm not sure which of my life experiences is shaping my views about racism. I think a couple experiences have been powerful: I was raised Jewish in a place with lots of ignorance, so I have a personal understanding of facing prejudice. I think this gives me a head start in trying to understand the experience of facing racial prejudice. And I have a strong commitment to fighting prejudice. There are lots of influences I can place into that Jewish context. "Lo alecha hamlachah lignor, v'lo atah ben chorin l'hibatel mimenah" - it's not up to you to fix the world yourself, but you're responsible for doing your part. I do believe strongly in right and wrong, and trying to make the world more right, and that we're all responsible for that. "They came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Catholic..." Jews learned a while ago that in order to be safe, we all have to look out for each other and fight injustice together. This is the opposite of "Every man for himself" or "Oh well, we all have our challenges..." In my world, injustice is something to take very seriously. I also spent a long time learning about racism of my own accord. I asked questions, listened, read, and thought about it. I compared it to things I'd experienced. The more I learned, the more I can recognize racism when I see it -- because I know the context and history. And I realized there was lots of racism I saw growing up, but didn't recognize. Anyways. I could go on and on. I've had lots of experiences that may have shaped my perspective. But that's a start. Matt

Matt Smith -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/23/2007 11:24:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amyk What are practical suggestions for how people of the "majority skin color" should try to combat racism? One I can think of is to refuse to participate in racist jokes and to speak out against them to those who pass them on to you in emails or who tell them to you. It is really hard to take a stand against racism if it is one of your own family members who is a racist, I think. Or if you are a guest in someone's home, and they start making racist comments, that is not an easy situation. Are there other ideas of what people can do to combat racism? Yeah. I think your ideas are good, however they're also reactive -- like in order to do something, first you have to hear someone say something racist. I also like the idea of being proactive. So for example, I found people who are interested in talking about racism and asked them for their experiences/perspectives. I read some books. I joined a social justice group. I volunteer at a youth center, and we intend to serve the entire community, regardless of race, ethnicity, or whatever else. And we've seen that youth from Spanish-speaking families don't always know how welcome that part of their background is. I bought some books in Spanish and put them on the bookshelf, so it would be obvious that we consider Spanish-speaking families a part of our center's community. That's obviously a little thing, but it's one small way I thought of. I also make sure to have pictures in the center that show diverse youth and adults -- in terms of gender, race/ethnicity, and who knows what else -- because I think it would be weird for a Black kid to show up and see only pictures of White people on the walls... or for a boy to show up and see only pictures of girls. Similarly, I think it would be weird for someone to show up to a meeting of the board of directors and not see any diversity. In our board application, we have some question that communicates our expectations... so everyone will know, we're trying to serve the whole community, regardless of gender, race, class, religion, etc etc. I can't remember what the question is. But it just sends the message, "This is important to us, and we think about it and talk about it, and it should be important to you too." Matt

zamdad -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 12:13:19 AM)
quote: With all due respect to both of you, I've posted specifics in other threads. (e.g. pages 5 and 6 of this one.) It would be nice if I'd gotten multiple replies to each of those posts, responding to the points I was making. But instead, they were largely ignored... and now I get multiple replies to my above post, criticizing me for not being more specific. I went back and read your specifics in the other thread. I recall reading them and the responses when that thread was active. The numbers cited don't have much to say. Like many others, I'm not a fan of statistics as they can be used to support any position desired. It's pure and simple, academics. Academicians are, unfortunately, a necessary evil to challenge us to continue gaining knowledge. Yet, so many in the academic world know nothing about the meat and potatoes of the field they study. I've worked in the criminal justice system for 16 years. Professors and their protege's have all the theories down in stone. But they have no clue how to work individually with those enmeshed in the system. So, you were raised Jewish. I'm guessing that you are white. How does being Jewish fit into experiencing racism? Yes, Jews have been persecuted throughout time. But, it's not their skin tone that sets them apart from non Jews. So, how does it relate to the OP? quote: I do believe strongly in right and wrong, and trying to make the world more right, and that we're all responsible for that. Based on some private conversations we've had, I believe your sense of right and wrong may differ from many of us who post on this site. You seem to have a definition of right and wrong that fits your personal perspective rather than time tested standards of right and wrong. While your efforts at promoting diversity seem admirable, the anything goes, whatever floats your boat, approach to life leads others into some rather morally compromising situations. While you accuse many of not listening, you have told me that your only here to educate. Are you here to learn as well?

SonInMe1 -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 1:59:33 AM)
quote: Are you kidding? No. Without damages, demonstrable ones, then there is no effect...other than a few hurt feelings. If a co worker calls you a name but nothing changes at work what is the problem? You still have a job and opportunities there but someone called you a racial slur. Oh well. Does the world have to come to a stop because you were....offended? Now, if that co-worker made sure you sere fired, or did not get that promotion, then there are damages and then, true racism existed. If you want to eradicate prejudice from people's minds....well its never been done. Many have tried but, it cannot be done. Its going to exist but what CAN be done is to make sure the effects of racism are limited. That is why institutionalized racism has been addressed. Its something that can be accomplished. Individually, like all moral issues there is only one answer and that, of course, is Jesus Christ.

Matt Smith -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 2:05:26 PM)
SonInMe, I think there's some confusion here about "damages," crime, and legal remedy. Being called a name at work is not discrimination, and it's not a crime. There's no legal remedy for that, that I'm aware of. Being discriminated against -- in public accomodations, employment, housing, etc -- does have damages. And it is a crime. There may or may not be a legal remedy -- because as I mentioned, not all crimes can be successfully prosecuted. The burden of proof is high. So the legal system by itself is not the cure for all the ills of racial discrimination. Matt quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 quote: Are you kidding? No. Without damages, demonstrable ones, then there is no effect...other than a few hurt feelings. If a co worker calls you a name but nothing changes at work what is the problem? You still have a job and opportunities there but someone called you a racial slur. Oh well. Does the world have to come to a stop because you were....offended? Now, if that co-worker made sure you sere fired, or did not get that promotion, then there are damages and then, true racism existed. If you want to eradicate prejudice from people's minds....well its never been done. Many have tried but, it cannot be done. Its going to exist but what CAN be done is to make sure the effects of racism are limited. That is why institutionalized racism has been addressed. Its something that can be accomplished. Individually, like all moral issues there is only one answer and that, of course, is Jesus Christ.

Matt Smith -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 2:27:16 PM)
Zamdad -- I can understand questioning statistics, but it sounds like you're dismissing all statistics outright? Or do I misunderstand you? Being Jewish relates to the experience of racism in some ways. Of course it's not the same, and I doubt I'll ever know what it's like to be a person of color. But there are some parallels -- history of oppression, experience of prejudice. Without some experience of oppression, I'm honestly not sure how much I'd be able to relate to racism. With all due respect, I don't go for the "anything goes, whatever floats your boat approach to life." I think that's just how you choose to understand a morality that differs from yours. I'm everywhere to learn -- here included. My biggest motivation to learn about racism was when I was confronted with my own ignorance. I'll have to tell that story -- but right now I have to run. Family's waiting. Happy Thanksgiving weekend to everyone! Matt

zamdad -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 3:11:18 PM)
quote: I can understand questioning statistics, but it sounds like you're dismissing all statistics outright? Or do I misunderstand you? No, not dismissing them outright. Unfortunately they are a necessary evil. quote: With all due respect, I don't go for the "anything goes, whatever floats your boat approach to life." I think that's just how you choose to understand a morality that differs from yours. No, it seems you are trying to put words in my mouth. While I understand the need for diversity, politically correct culture has turned diversity into a giant free for all dismissing standards of absolute morality. Knowing that you are not a Christian, participating in Christian forum, I know you have a moral standard that differs from most of us here. I know you have experienced prejudice, but I would not equate what you've experienced to racism. A lifestyle is not akin to a skin tone.

Nubianem -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 4:12:22 PM)
RACISM IS A DIRECT RESULT OF RELIGIOUS FANATICISM. Many people AROUND THE WORLD REJECT 'CHRISTIANITY' BECAUSE THEY SEE CROSSES BEING USED TO PROMOTE RACISM, THEY SEE NOOSES BEING USED TO INTIMIDATE PEOPLE, AND THEY WATCH THE RACIST PROPAGANDA OF HOLLYWOOD. People also know how they have been treated when 'missionaries' proclaiming to be 'Christians' bring racist habits to their nations. The very fact that 'AFFIRMATIVE ACTION' IS MENTIONED AS AN EXCUSE TO BE RACIST, WHEN 89% OF ALL AFFIRMATIVE ACTION BENEFICIARIES ARE WHITE WOMEN, shows clearly the hipocracy involved in this entire SSystem of racism/Euro-supremacy. As long as some people feel inferior (as did Lucifer when he tried to topple God due to Lucifer's pride and feeling of being 'above', then there will be racism. The solution is TO HARDEN AND TO TOUGHTEN THOSE WHO ARE VICTIMS. You can't teach the victims of racism/white supremacy to be 'humble' meek and mild at racists oppressors. Nor can you expect them to 'believe' in any dogma or religion that continues to use religious symbols as tools of brainwashing (idols, ect). THE ONLY WAY RACISM WILL BE MAKE IMPOTENT TO BLACKS IS WHEN BLACKS RECOGNIZE THAT MUCH OF THE RACISM WE FACE COMES FROM FALSE RELIGIONS PRETENDING TO BE 'CHRISTIAN.' What is our own religion? If we want to be 'holy' and to be Christian, we surely cannot follow the false dogma created to support racism/white supremacy that has been created since the 1400's AD. We have to revive the form of Christianity that some of our ancestors followed; THESE BEING ETHIOPIAN COPTIC AND NUBIAN COPTIC CHRISTIANITY -- WITHOUT ANY IDOLS, STATUES AND FALSE IMAGES.

wunderschon -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 4:18:18 PM)
You came to a Christian website with members of all races, to preach black power, divisiveness, and ongoing resentment of whites/white Christians? Don't you feel you'll have a somewhat limited audience here for that agenda?

SonInMe1 -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 5:46:55 PM)
quote: a movement of Black males for Black Revival. Someone who hates racism advocates it by limiting his group to those of one color. I see hypocracy isn't just a white trait. quote: The very fact that 'AFFIRMATIVE ACTION' IS MENTIONED AS AN EXCUSE TO BE RACIST No, affirmitive action IS racist, its not an excuse to be racist. quote: As long as some people feel inferior (as did Lucifer when he tried to topple God due to Lucifer's pride and feeling of being 'above', then there will be racism. So its God's fault Lucifer had pride? If you feel inferior because of the color of your skin, then you place too much importance on it. Develop yourself and stop worrying what others might be thinking. Grow up. quote: The solution is TO HARDEN AND TO TOUGHTEN THOSE WHO ARE VICTIMS. While most people do not choose to BE a victim, they choose to STAY one and your "ideology" fosters victimhood because that, empowers your group. No victims, or percieved victimhood, no movement. quote: THE ONLY WAY RACISM WILL BE MAKE IMPOTENT TO BLACKS IS WHEN BLACKS RECOGNIZE THAT MUCH OF THE RACISM WE FACE COMES FROM FALSE RELIGIONS PRETENDING TO BE 'CHRISTIAN.' I have never seen this. Please do not take the exception and try to make it the norm. That is propaganda...at best. quote: What is our own religion? Sooo...all black people should have one religion? Your post is...disturbing because in an attempt to empower people you are advocating racism.

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 11:02:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gaylel1 I remember an incident when Donnie Mc Clurkin got flack from the Christian community when the song, "We Fall Down" was played on secular radio and gospel radio while Bob Carilie, who recorded the same song did not get flack from the same christian community. Oh! I heard his rendition tonight! I love it! I have heard this before, most likely on my local station, maybe on the music chanel on TV. I am going to the store tomorrow to get it. Thank you for telling me about it. _____________________________ Regarding the living family members I recalled, who are a bit racist, most of them do not claim to be believers, except for the "shirt-tail" relatives. Regarding these people, bluntly, I have extreme serious doubts about them truly being believers, even though the husband is a preacher. It is very difficult for me to imagine real believers who are like that.

gaylel1 -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/24/2007 11:33:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nubianem RACISM IS A DIRECT RESULT OF RELIGIOUS FANATICISM. Many people AROUND THE WORLD REJECT 'CHRISTIANITY' BECAUSE THEY SEE CROSSES BEING USED TO PROMOTE RACISM, THEY SEE NOOSES BEING USED TO INTIMIDATE PEOPLE, AND THEY WATCH THE RACIST PROPAGANDA OF HOLLYWOOD. People also know how they have been treated when 'missionaries' proclaiming to be 'Christians' bring racist habits to their nations. The very fact that 'AFFIRMATIVE ACTION' IS MENTIONED AS AN EXCUSE TO BE RACIST, WHEN 89% OF ALL AFFIRMATIVE ACTION BENEFICIARIES ARE WHITE WOMEN, shows clearly the hipocracy involved in this entire SSystem of racism/Euro-supremacy. As long as some people feel inferior (as did Lucifer when he tried to topple God due to Lucifer's pride and feeling of being 'above', then there will be racism. The solution is TO HARDEN AND TO TOUGHTEN THOSE WHO ARE VICTIMS. You can't teach the victims of racism/white supremacy to be 'humble' meek and mild at racists oppressors. Nor can you expect them to 'believe' in any dogma or religion that continues to use religious symbols as tools of brainwashing (idols, ect). THE ONLY WAY RACISM WILL BE MAKE IMPOTENT TO BLACKS IS WHEN BLACKS RECOGNIZE THAT MUCH OF THE RACISM WE FACE COMES FROM FALSE RELIGIONS PRETENDING TO BE 'CHRISTIAN.' What is our own religion? If we want to be 'holy' and to be Christian, we surely cannot follow the false dogma created to support racism/white supremacy that has been created since the 1400's AD. We have to revive the form of Christianity that some of our ancestors followed; THESE BEING ETHIOPIAN COPTIC AND NUBIAN COPTIC CHRISTIANITY -- WITHOUT ANY IDOLS, STATUES AND FALSE IMAGES. You know, trolls comes in all shapes, and colors and this is an example of a troll who wants to post this nonsense to make trouble here. This kind of post does not offer solutions, but brings an agenda which divides us as Christians.

SonInMe1 -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 7:25:05 AM)
quote: This kind of post does not offer solutions, but brings an agenda which divides us as Christians. amen

Nubianem -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 10:47:07 AM)
One of the reasons why people AROUND THE WORLD ARE REJECTING CHRISTIANITY AND SHOW TO SOME OF US, THE SAME RACISM AND HATRED WE SHOW TO THE BLACK AMERICAN VICTIMS OF RACISM/WHITE SUPREMACY, IS BECAUSE WE ARE HIPOCRITES. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. We cannot try to CONVERT people to our RACIST RELIGION and then turn around and MISTREAT BLACKS IN THE US. There are about 2,000,000,000 (two billion) Africoid/Negroid/Black people globally, spread from the Americas throughout Africa, South Asia and Melanesia --- These Black (WE ARE NOT 'COLORED' BECAUSE WE HAVE ONLY ONE DOMINANT COLOR - DARK/BLACK, WHILE WHITES HAVE BLONDE HAIR, PINK SKIN, BLUE EYES, WHITE TEETH -- SO WHO'S 'COLORED.') people are fed up with hipocracy. Fortunately, the rest of humanity is also fed up. People talk about SHARPTON, well SHARPTON is PREVENTING BLACK PEOPLE FROM ACHIEVING THE ULTIMATE GOAL THAT HAS TO BE ACHIEVED -- BLACK NATIONALISM, BLACK SEPARATISM, REVIVAL OF BLACK CULTURE, REVIVAL OF AFRICAN LANGUAGE AND AFRICAN RELIGIONS. Sharpton wants to BE PART OF THE SYSTEM, AND WORKS FOR EQUALITY -- BLACK NATIONALISTS AND SEPARATISTS WANT NO PART OF COLONIALISM -- People like the Black Wa$hitaw, Jamassee and other BLACKS WHO ARE ABORIGINAL/NATIVE TO THE US (THERE ARE OVER 3,000,000) WANT THEIR LANDS BACK AND WANT INDEPENDENCE SO BLACKS CAN RULE THEMSELVES. WHAT LAND? How about all the 'LOUISIANA TERRITORIES,' parts of California and much of the South-Eastern US. If history is correct, BLACKS WERE IN THE US BEFORE COLUMBUS AND REGAINING THE STOLEN LAND HAS BEEN THE OBJECTIVE OF MANY BLACKS -- NOT BEGGING WHITES FOR 'INTEGRATION,' AND NOT SITTING NEXT TO A TOILET WITH PEOPLE TO BE 'EQUAL.' Do the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans beg to sit next to whites? No! They recognize RACISM AND DON'T WANT TO BE REDICULED OR VICTIMIZED -- THAT IS WHY MOST GROUPS STICK TO THEIR OWN. After all, WE HAVE A LONG HISTORY OF SEGREGATION AND STILL DO. Hipocrites talk about BLACKS SEPARATING THEMSELVES -- WELL, IN ORDER TO SURVIVE THE ONSLAUGHTS OF A HATED OPPRESSOR, THE VICTIMS MUST SEPARATE THEMSELVES, PRESERVE THEIR CULTURE (AND THERE IS A BLACK CULTURE ROOTED IN AFRICAN CULTURE), HAVE AS MANY CHILDREN OF THEIR KIND AS THEY CAN (A MINORITY SHOULD NOT MIX BECAUSE THEY WILL BE WIPED OUT IF THEY CONTINUE), AND BUILD AN ECONOMY. Peace!! Nubianem

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 10:54:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gaylel1 You know, trolls comes in all shapes, and colors and this is an example of a troll who wants to post this nonsense to make trouble here. This kind of post does not offer solutions, but brings an agenda which divides us as Christians. Amein.

Nubianem -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 11:14:42 AM)
My OBSERVATION OF RACISM IN CHRISTIANITY (AS DR. FREDERIC K PRICE PREACHED ABOUT, ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO IN HIS SERIES, RACE AND RELIGION, ) IS BASED ON FACT, NOT ON 'FAITH.' RACISM IS BASED ON FAITH AND DOGMA, JUST LIKE THE 'FAITH' AND DOGMA IN CHRISTIANITY AND OTHER RELIGIONS. A TRUE CHRISTIAN UNDERSTANDS CIRCUMSTANCES -- AND TALKING ABOUT 'SHARPTON' SPEAKING OUT ABOUT INJUSTICE, WHAT ABOUT THESE 'CHRISTIANS' WHO OWN DIAMOND MINES IN WEST AFRICA AND ARE CONTRIBUTING TO WAR AND DISTRUCTION THERE? WHAT ABOUT THESE RACISTS HOLLYWOOD PEOPLE OF EASTERN EUROPEAN ORIGINS ( AND A RELIGION THAT HAS INSULTED BLACKS FOR CENTURIES), WHO CONTINUE TO SPREAD RACIST PROPAGANDA IN MOVIES, TV SHOWS, TALK SHOWS AND THE LIKE. As for castigating 'rap' music, HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN THE LATE DELORIS TUCKER AND JOE MADISON WHO FOUGHT AGAINST THIS FILTHY 'RAP' THAT IS PUSHED BY THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THESE RECORDING COMPANIES (AND WHO OWEN STATIONS LIKE THE ONE IN NEW YORK THAT PROMOTED THE 'TSUNAI SONG,' INSULTING ASIANS -- THE VERY SAME PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE RACIST 'CURSE OF HAM' IN THE BIBLE, THAT'S WHO. Any wonder one of them WHOSE GRANDPARENTS WERE VICTIMS OF NAZI GERMANY WILL CONTINUE THE RACIST CLOWNING OF BLACKS BY PRETENDING TO BE A 'COMEDIENNE'? NUFF SAID!! THE SOLUTION TO BLACK AMERICA'S OPPRESSION IS BLACK NATIONALISM AND BLACK SEPARATISM, HOWEVER WE ALSO HAVE TO BE TRUE TO OUR SPIRITUALITY. Christians INVENTED RACISM AND SEPARATISM -- THAT'S WHY CHRISTIANS ARE TOLD TO SEPARATE THEMSELVES FROM 'SINNERS,' 'SINNERS' TO US ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T 'ACCEPT CHRIST,' AND SINNERS TO OTHER PEOPLE ARE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE RACIST AND REFUSE TO ATONE FOR THEIR CRIMES PAST OR PRESENT. As one who is highly spiritual, it is shameful TO SEE 'CHRISTIANS' doing Lucifer's work while giving a FAKE GRIN as if everything is ok. Yes, BLACK MALE POWER MOVEMENT is dedicated to helping return the BLACK FAMILY TO A PLACE WHERE WE CAN ALL PROSPER AND LIVE IN HARMONY. I surely don't hear anyone complaining about 'THE MORAL MAJORITY,' OR THE 'CHRISTIAN RIGHT' when they ask their people to VOTE A PARTICULAR WAY OR SUPPORT A PARTICULAR AGENDA.

gaylel1 -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 11:43:11 AM)
Nubien, What I'm getting from your post is that you suggest that blacks stick to "their own kind" rather than get together with other christians---I don't think it is a good idea because if you separate yourself from others, guess what? you are just as racist as the others. Then you blame Christianity for racism--it is not the christians fault, because we are humans and human make mistakes. Can I spell it out for you.. it is plain as S-I-N We are all sinners, black, white and polka dot who are saved by grace. We serve a savior who do not care about color lines. Secondly, I'm African American too, however, people like Sharpton does not speak for me or anyone in the African American community. We have some leaders like Dr. Tony Evans and many other men of God, black and white who are aware of this issue and are doing something about it. (I cannot believe I'm agreeing with some here now, lol...:D) Third, in order to have true spirituality, we must admit that we are sinners and repent. Fourth, while I understand that blacks are "victimized" like you said, we as black folks do not have to be "victimized" and dwell on the wrong doing. How can we be healed when the same thing is mentioned over and over and over? This is why we need to move forward, forgive and pray for people so they can turn the corner.

jbow -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 12:56:38 PM)
quote: REGAINING THE STOLEN LAND HAS BEEN THE OBJECTIVE OF MANY BLACKS If you think this is a reasonable goal then you truly are nieve. Do you also think England sholud be given back to the Celts? Who do you think the French are? They are mostly the descendants of Germanic tribes, just like the rest of southern europe. Native American's only hope is to assimilate, along with everyone else in this country including the people of African desecnt. No one is giving land back, no one ever has without being forced to. Do you advocate war? Because that is what it sounds like. Land taken in war is not stolen, it is conquered. Do you realize that 11 states are not in the United States by choice but are conquered lands that were occupied by armies and forced to join the US? Should the southern states be given their independence back? I guess you think that the US should give Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and Califirnia back to Mexico... but Texas was a republic of it's own after being taken from Mexico... that's a problem. Surely you realize these things only change through war or exterme political pressure of the kind that the oppressed have none. The USA pressures Israel to give up lands and they comply to an extent, to their detriment, but who is going to pressure the USA to give lands to Indians? If IIRC the idea of 40 acres and a mule didn't even work out. There is a thing in this world called "personal responsibility". You and everyone else has it, or should have it. Life is what you make it. You have to cook with the ingredients that are available to you, or go hungry. Life is not fair, it never has been but the meek shall inherit the earth. The Bible say's to be satisfied in whatever state you find yourself, even slavery, but that if you can secure your freedom that is good, if not be a good slave, as unto the Lord. (No, I didn't say this... the word did.) Serve Christ and others with humility and you will do well. How does what you say line up with what Jesus taught about: if a man take's you shirt, give him your cloak also; if a man make's you go with him a mile, go with him two. You are concerned with the things of this world, the things that the world seek's after. Jesus said that His Kingdon is not of this world. Be satisfied with where the Lord has been pleased to place you and remember what Paul said, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthen's me". Whether in poverty or riches, whether in bonds or free, all is the same in Christ. The free man is Christ's slave and the slave is Christ's freemen. J

Matt Smith -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 1:38:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zamdad quote: I can understand questioning statistics, but it sounds like you're dismissing all statistics outright? Or do I misunderstand you? No, not dismissing them outright. Unfortunately they are a necessary evil. Well, if you're not dismissing them outright, then I'll welcome any response you have to the ones I posted. What can you find in that research that might inform our understanding of racism? quote: quote: With all due respect, I don't go for the "anything goes, whatever floats your boat approach to life." I think that's just how you choose to understand a morality that differs from yours. No, it seems you are trying to put words in my mouth. While I understand the need for diversity, politically correct culture has turned diversity into a giant free for all dismissing standards of absolute morality. Knowing that you are not a Christian, participating in Christian forum, I know you have a moral standard that differs from most of us here. I know you have experienced prejudice, but I would not equate what you've experienced to racism. A lifestyle is not akin to a skin tone. I don't adhere to the Christian idea of absolute morality as revealed by God. But I also don't believe in a free for all, or in "anything goes" or "whatever floats your boat." Those are words you put in my mouth. If I misunderstand why you described me in those terms, then you've got my apology... and I'd be happy to hear the real reason. While my morality is different from Christianity in some ways, I also share many of the same moral values. Like I said, I'm a product of a Jewish upbringing. I do think there are many commonalities between prejudice of different sorts -- whether based on race, religion, or anything else. There are commonalities even though my religion isn't akin to my skin tone. Do you think they have nothing in common? That my experiences of prejudice based on religion gives me zero insight into racism, for example? At least, if you see any comparison between the two, this wasn't conveyed in your post. Matt

zamdad -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 4:04:05 PM)
quote: Well, if you're not dismissing them outright, then I'll welcome any response you have to the ones I posted. What can you find in that research that might inform our understanding of racism? While in college, I studied one study after another. My advisor was absoultely right in his assessment of academics. It's nothing more than some person coming up with a theory and publishing his/her research to support it. Then, someone ele comes along and publishes a theory to counter the first theory. On and on it goes all while spending someone else's money. I'm sure that, like you, most of my opnion/perspective on racism comes from life experience more than academic research. Yes, I am white. Growing up my parents had friends of every color. As an adult I moved to Alaska. The town I lived in had an Army post, an Air Force base, a college, and was the central community for many rural natives to come and get supplies, gather for events, etc. In the Army, during basic training, one of my drill instructors hammered home the point that in the Army, there is no race; everyone is green. I have been to several native villages where I was made to feel unwelcome because I am white. At the same time, I did not let that bother me as I continued to engage everyone in the village. I have also worked in corrections, both behind the walls and in the community. As i said in an earlier post, the onle place i have seen true racism take place was inside the prison. UNtil we get past ourselves and learn to ignore color, begin looking at character instead of pigmentation, we will never rid ourselves of racism. Like the media, academicians don't want it to go away because it generates money. I asked asked about your perspective on the matter as you chimed into this thread communicating some form of expertise citing stats, studies and personal experience. As I indicated in previous conversations with you that you have expressed feeling discriminated against, feeling the effects of prejudice, with regard to your lifestyle choice. I fail to see the correlation between being discriminated against for behavior as opposed to skin color.

Acts29 -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 10:03:16 PM)
While reading through all of these posts I found something interesting in them. NOT ALL posts but most I discovered any poor disadvantage person must deal with people's prejudices. In trying to apply for a job it is his clothes not skin color that lost him the job. In making a phone call for an interview it was his poor grammar not his dialect. On his job application it was poor reading and comprehension skills. In feeling like his voice is not heard it is not what you know but who you know. Could it possibly be some of it falls under the guise of disadvantage which affects all skin colors rather than racism?

Conundrum -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 10:36:38 PM)
quote: (WE ARE NOT 'COLORED' BECAUSE WE HAVE ONLY ONE DOMINANT COLOR - DARK/BLACK, WHILE WHITES HAVE BLONDE HAIR, PINK SKIN, BLUE EYES, WHITE TEETH -- SO WHO'S 'COLORED.') Gee - I'm a "white" with dark brown hair and dark brown eyes. [;)] quote: PREVENTING BLACK PEOPLE FROM ACHIEVING THE ULTIMATE GOAL THAT HAS TO BE ACHIEVED -- BLACK NATIONALISM, BLACK SEPARATISM, REVIVAL OF BLACK CULTURE, REVIVAL OF AFRICAN LANGUAGE AND AFRICAN RELIGIONS. What is "Black Culture"? That of the Tutsis in Rwanda? That of Moroccans? That of Jamaicans? What is "African Language"? Last I heard, there were hundreds of tribal languages. What is "African Religion"? Animism? Coptic Christianity? Just wonderin'.

wunderschon -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/25/2007 11:33:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acts29 While reading through all of these posts I found something interesting in them. NOT ALL posts but most I discovered any poor disadvantage person must deal with people's prejudices. In trying to apply for a job it is his clothes not skin color that lost him the job. In making a phone call for an interview it was his poor grammar not his dialect. On his job application it was poor reading and comprehension skills. In feeling like his voice is not heard it is not what you know but who you know. Could it possibly be some of it falls under the guise of disadvantage which affects all skin colors rather than racism? My thoughts exactly, but it's still (for now, though socialism is a creeping disease in modern politics) not yet acceptable to be a communist in America, which is the only way that disadvantaged people could blame others and put their efforts into blaming them and "making them pay" (ie, redistribute the wealth). Victimhood is big business in this country.

zamdad -> RE: A Matter of Color... Skin Color - One Stop Thread (11/26/2007 12:39:30 AM)
quote: My thoughts exactly, but it's still (for now, though socialism is a creeping disease in modern politics) not yet acceptable to be a communist in America, which is the only way that disadvantaged people could blame others and put their efforts into blaming them and "making them pay" (ie, redistribute the wealth). Victimhood is big business in this country. Hmmm, I really hate to go there with politics. But, could this be why the democrats appeal so significantly to those who represent or consider themselves to be the less advantaged?

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