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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 1:00:26 PM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Those who break the law to enter into this country to break even more laws... Laws that are not in coflict with God's laws, therefore they are to be followed as God's law, since He ordained civil government for the sake of order...
John
How about God's word? Leviticus 19:34 As you have said before, doesn't God's Word have authority over even the law of the US?
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 3:32:22 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4528
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Those who break the law to enter into this country to break even more laws... Laws that are not in coflict with God's laws, therefore they are to be followed as God's law, since He ordained civil government for the sake of order...
John
How about God's word? Leviticus 19:34 As you have said before, doesn't God's Word have authority over even the law of the US?
Are you contending that Leviticus 19:34 allows a person to cross the border illegally? What law of God's outlaws a nation from having secure established borders? Both concepts are very biblical...
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 4:09:58 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
There's no way I'd sit in many black churches because and it's not because I'm white
Because what?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 4:11:08 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2335
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Those who break the law to enter into this country to break even more laws... Laws that are not in coflict with God's laws, therefore they are to be followed as God's law, since He ordained civil government for the sake of order...
John
How about God's word? Leviticus 19:34 As you have said before, doesn't God's Word have authority over even the law of the US?
Are you contending that Leviticus 19:34 allows a person to cross the border illegally? What law of God's outlaws a nation from having secure established borders? Both concepts are very biblical...
John
Show me.
Remember John, there are no countries in heaven, no "Jew of Greek" Romans 10:12
"This means that you are strangers and aliens no longer. No, you are fellow citizens of the saints and the members of the household of God." Ephesians 2:19
"It is He who is our peace, and who made the two of us one by breaking down the barrier of hostility that kept us apart." Ephesians 2:14
Didn't the same God that created you and allowed you to be born in the US created another to be born in another country? He is the Creator of all is He not?
Read James Chapter 2
"But if you show favoritism, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors." James 2:9 It also says that if we smile and wave at people not taking care of their bodily needs "what Good is that?" (James 2:16)
We are servants of the God of all; not the God of Americans.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 4:11:11 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1825
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quote:
God's word regarding the ordaining of civil government for the sake of order comes into play. The laws regarding immigration are not in conflict with God's law so therefore they are to be obeyed as if they are God's law, since He ordained the civil government...
can you post the verses ?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 5:03:55 PM
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tracydolls
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Stampinlady,
We know that Jesus was meek and gentle and peaceful and humble!
So we know that all that screaming is not from Jesus, right?
But I can show some White churches that scream, worship where you feel comfortable.
I can show you white churches preaching alot fo false gospels. Just like Wright. Does that mean he is exempt, no. He goes in the pile with them.
As a Christian, I don't care what color they are. I've seen good white pastors.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 6:59:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4528
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Show me.
Remember John, there are no countries in heaven, no "Jew of Greek" Romans 10:12
I have some real bad news for ya... We are not in heaven... And
As for borders... Read the bible.... Israel had very DEFINED borders...
Examples...
Genesis 15:18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
Numbers 34
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2. Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land of Canaan; (this is the land that shall fall unto you for an inheritance, even the land of Canaan with the coasts thereof:)
3. Then your south quarter shall be from the wilderness of Zin along by the coast of Edom, and your south border shall be the outmost coast of the salt sea eastward:
4. And your border shall turn from the south to the ascent of Akrabbim, and pass on to Zin: and the going forth thereof shall be from the south to Kadeshbarnea, and shall go on to Hazaraddar, and pass on to Azmon:
5. And the border shall fetch a compass from Azmon unto the river of Egypt, and the goings out of it shall be at the sea.
6. And as for the western border, ye shall even have the great sea for a border: this shall be your west border.
7. And this shall be your north border: from the great sea ye shall point out for you mount Hor:
8. From mount Hor ye shall point out your border unto the entrance of Hamath; and the goings forth of the border shall be to Zedad:
9. And the border shall go on to Ziphron, and the goings out of it shall be at Hazarenan: this shall be your north border.
10. And ye shall point out your east border from Hazarenan to Shepham:
11. And the coast shall go down from Shepham to Riblah, on the east side of Ain; and the border shall descend, and shall reach unto the side of the sea of Chinnereth eastward:
12. And the border shall go down to Jordan, and the goings out of it shall be at the salt sea: this shall be your land with the coasts thereof round about.
13. And Moses commanded the children of Israel, saying, This is the land which ye shall inherit by lot, which the Lord commanded to give unto the nine tribes, and to the half tribe:
14. For the tribe of the children of Reuben according to the house of their fathers, and the tribe of the children of Gad according to the house of their fathers, have received their inheritance; and half the tribe of Manasseh have received their inheritance:
15. The two tribes and the half tribe have received their inheritance on this side Jordan near Jericho eastward, toward the sunrising.
God being the Lord of Lord, King of Kings, ordained nations...
Psalms 22:28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
Psalms 67:4 O let the nations be glad and sing for joy: for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.
Psalms 86:9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
quote:
"This means that you are strangers and aliens no longer. No, you are fellow citizens of the saints and the members of the household of God." Ephesians 2:19
That exists not on this earth... There is no country called God's Country where all the Christians live... You are mixing the eternal and the temporal...
quote:
"It is He who is our peace, and who made the two of us one by breaking down the barrier of hostility that kept us apart." Ephesians 2:14
It wasn't borders of land that kept the Jews and Gentiles apart, but beliefs... There was no call from Christ and or His apostles to remove the borders of the nations that God himself setup... Remember, He's the God of order, not chaos...
quote:
Didn't the same God that created you and allowed you to be born in the US created another to be born in another country? He is the Creator of all is He not?
God didn't allow me to be born, He ordained it, as He did someone born in China.... Read Job...
So now connect the dots...
quote:
Read James Chapter 2
"But if you show favoritism, you commit sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors." James 2:9
There is a legal process to enter the country... If you believe it shows favoritism by all means use the available means to address it, but the concept is biblically sound... God is the God of order, not chaos...
quote:
It also says that if we smile and wave at people not taking care of their bodily needs "what Good is that?" (James 2:16)
Even the people who are arrested for illegally crossing the border are fed, and if they need medical attention its given free of charge... What more do you want for someone who willfully brakes the law?
quote:
We are servants of the God of all; not the God of Americans.
The fact that the body of Christ extends across borders doesn't mean that borders are not valid... You need to discern what is eternal and what is temporal...
God didn't ordain ONE civil government, but many and for anyone to argue that borders don't serve a purpose in regards to keeping order doesn't understand the concept to start with...
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 7:01:07 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4528
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
God's word regarding the ordaining of civil government for the sake of order comes into play. The laws regarding immigration are not in conflict with God's law so therefore they are to be obeyed as if they are God's law, since He ordained the civil government...
can you post the verses ?
Romans 13....
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 9:45:14 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
quote:
As a Christian, I don't care what color they are.
Me either, but I'm not gonna become a member of a church I don't feel comfortable at. I think we all have our preferances and that's ok. Lol, I grew up in an AG church and I've seen my share of interesting ways of "worship." I think it's interesting that I live in the Chicagoland area and I've never heard Rev. Wright untill now. Hmmmm .
Can I ask what is an AG Church? I don't think you missed anything by not hearing about him. What ****es me off, is them trying to promote that this a Black Mainstream Church... It is not. Why do only the bad ones get the attention?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 9:48:36 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1825
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quote:
As for borders... Read the bible.... Israel had very DEFINED borders...
did God give america defined borders? And has'nt Israel been fighting over the borders ever since 1967?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 10:11:23 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4528
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
As for borders... Read the bible.... Israel had very DEFINED borders...
did God give america defined borders? And has'nt Israel been fighting over the borders ever since 1967?
Doesn't remove the fact that God raises nations and they have borders... Try as you might you cannot erase that fact...
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 10:32:34 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1825
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quote:
Doesn't remove the fact that God raises nations and they have borders... Try as you might you cannot erase that fact...
ok, if america builds this border thru an Native reservation that has a treaty saying they can be there, what is that?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/28/2008 11:11:52 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4528
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Doesn't remove the fact that God raises nations and they have borders... Try as you might you cannot erase that fact...
ok, if america builds this border thru an Native reservation that has a treaty saying they can be there, what is that?
The United States has borders... You need to deal with that reality...
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 8:39:07 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3518
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
the Mexicans are "invading" our country, if they take over it just business as usual in the world and you should get over the "injustice" of it all!
To the winners go the spoils...historically correct. However, that does not mean we sit by and let them...IF...that is their purpose.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 8:55:28 AM
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tracydolls
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quote:
The United States has borders... You need to deal with that reality...
But now they want to change that particular border, you need to accept you live next door to other people, sometimes they want to visit.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 10:14:53 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2335
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
As for borders... Read the bible.... Israel had very DEFINED borders...
did God give america defined borders? And has'nt Israel been fighting over the borders ever since 1967?
Doesn't remove the fact that God raises nations and they have borders... Try as you might you cannot erase that fact...
John
Numbers refers to Israel because this was the land of milk and honey for God's chosen people but even that didn't keep their borders from changing due to invasions from Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Aram, Edom, the Philistines, etc. The Israelites even divided their country in two (Israel and Judah) and were exiled from their own country due to their rebelliousness against God and not keeping their end of the Covenant.
So if borders are sancrosanct then why did He allow them to change for His Chosen People? And try as you might, Americans aren't God's Chosen people!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 10:21:05 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4528
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
The United States has borders... You need to deal with that reality...
But now they want to change that particular border, you need to accept you live next door to other people, sometimes they want to visit.
I accept the need to visit... I live in reality and the present time... I also accept the need for order and a secure border so that those who actually come to visit can do so in a lawful manner.
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 10:23:09 AM
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1dblthnk02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The United States has borders... You need to deal with that reality...
Every country has borders; the U.S. is the only one that I know of that is building a wall to keep people out. It reminds me of Berlin in the '60s.
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 10:29:09 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4528
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
As for borders... Read the bible.... Israel had very DEFINED borders...
did God give america defined borders? And has'nt Israel been fighting over the borders ever since 1967?
Doesn't remove the fact that God raises nations and they have borders... Try as you might you cannot erase that fact...
John
Numbers refers to Israel because this was the land of milk and honey for God's chosen people but even that didn't keep their borders from changing due to invasions from Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, Aram, Edom, the Philistines, etc. The Israelites even divided their country in two (Israel and Judah) and were exiled from their own country due to their rebelliousness against God and not keeping their end of the Covenant.
So if borders are sancrosanct then why did He allow them to change for His Chosen People? And try as you might, Americans aren't God's Chosen people!
You argued against the idea of borders and now you are talking about their existence... I believe I made my point... I never said they were (sic) sancrosanct, I said they were biblical... You said, show me... I did...
As well I addressed the random selection of verses you posted that spoke nothing against national borders, but spiritual ones...
John
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 10:29:43 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2335
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The United States has borders... You need to deal with that reality...
Every country has borders; the U.S. is the only one that I know of that is building a wall to keep people out. It reminds me of Berlin in the '60s.
And why aren't we clear cutting forests along our border with Canada which is twice as long and twice as undefended to make sure the illegals aren't crossing from the north? Is it because our northern neighbors are mostly European and white?
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Racial Issues in the News - One Stop Thread - 4/29/2008 10:31:35 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4528
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The United States has borders... You need to deal with that reality...
Every country has borders; the U.S. is the only one that I know of that is building a wall to keep people out. It reminds me of Berlin in the '60s.
The wall the East Germans buit was more to keep people in than out...
John
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I think it's interesting that I live in the Chicagoland area and I've never heard Rev. Wright untill now. Hmmmm .
