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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/29/2008 11:23:26 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
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quote:
ORIGINAL: traisjames
I would change my mind, however, if either God or Christ himself (bible doesn't work for me, bible also has lines that support nudity, so theres a contradiction there)(as I said before, the Pope said its ok, but honestly, that hasn't had an influence on me deciding to go nude when I can) or when kids start being born without clothes on
Well, there you have it. That's how you can arrive at "Christian Nudists" and still sleep at night.
As far as ckid being born with clothes on, they are also not born able to speak or wipe their bottom. Now, just how far are you willing to take this faulty line of reasoning, huh? 
I would also love to see your verses that support nudity. Please include them in your response. And as for your assertion that there is a contradiction in scripture, I will be more than happy to show you that there is, indeed, no contradiction at all. So, get your ducks in a row and come back on this one.
quote:
we belive that it is ok and we belive that social nudity is not a sin,
Hey, when you don't have to have an objective and absolute standard (such as the Bible, a.k.a. God's word) you can believe anything is not a sin because you have nothing by which to compare it or check it by. You know, when you abandon any kind of absolute standard you can also throw the whole idea of sin right out the window too.
I'll give you a tip here - the premise you use to make your argument, in fact, destroys it. I'll wait on explaining why as it, more than likely, tie in to your response noted above.
quote:
I am just trying to give a view from a christian nudist side of things
I'm sorry, but in a world where words mean things there is no such thing no matter how many names you give it.
Honestly, and I do mean this with respect and love, your position makes no sense without using scripture. It fails logically without the Bible. When you do look at scripture you can see why it fails, and exactly how badly.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/30/2008 12:02:13 AM
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traisjames
Posts: 22
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Ok, this comes from http://www.naturistsociety.com/resources/PDF/205ARGUE.pdf. I am about to go to bed so I am not able to go thru and break them down, but I do like 180 and 181. I was actually going to explain number 182 but desided to get clarification from you instead
CChristianity supports Naturism.277
180. Genesis 1:27--The (naked) human body, created by God, in God's own image, is basically decent, not
inherently impure or sinful. The human body was created by God, and God can create no evil. It is made in God's
image, and the image of God is entirely pure and good.
181. Genesis 1:31--God saw that everything, including naked Adam and Eve, was good.
182. Genesis 3:7--Many scholars interpret the wearing of fig leaves as a continuation and expansion of the
original sin, not a positive moral reaction to it.
Hugh Kilmer explains: "Man wanted to put his life within his own control rather than God's, so first he took
the power of self-determination (knowledge of good and evil). Next, finding his body was not within his control, he
controlled it artificially by hiding it. After he was expelled from paradise, he began to hunt and eat animals; then to
gain complete control over other people, by killing them (the story of Cain and Abel)." 278
Edited TOS 8
< Message edited by Kath -- 5/30/2008 1:42:16 AM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/30/2008 12:25:09 AM
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traisjames
Posts: 22
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hey, just a thought I had while in the shower...do you belive that its a sin to be nude while in the shower?
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 5/30/2008 12:40:22 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
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quote:
ORIGINAL: traisjames
and as for the bible stuff...I don't belive its directly gods word. it has changed throughout the ages before being written down, then changed again when translated. I belive that the bible is to help set standards of belief. Then again I also belief that Christanity isn't the only correct religion. Christianity is just my method of worshiping God, but its not the only way.
You say you are a "Christian" nudist, yet you say that you believe that Christianity is not the "only correct religion." Well, according to its founder, it is the only correct religion:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me - emphasis mine.
Jesus Christ is the one and only way to God. Calling yourself a Christian when you are not only serves to bring a reproach upon the body of Christ as well as our Lord. You can not be a disciple of Christ yet, at the same time, deny what He says is truth - especially when He has said He is the truth, not "a" truth or one of many truths.
To deny Christ is the only way to be born again is to deny the very basis of Christianity - therefore you can not be what you say you are because your denial shows you do not believe what you must believe to be a Christian. Being a Christian is not about adopting a name, and it is not about picking out a way you think is "best for me." It is also nto a method. Christianity is the new birth, being a new creation - being adopted into the family of God through belief in God, faith in the sacrifice of Christ for our sin, and sincere repentance. You just do not choose it like a hat.
I'm sorry, but I no longer believe it would do any good to debate the matter with you:
I Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 9:54:42 AM
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reillan
Posts: 40
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If I may:
I'm a Christian naturist. I believe Christianity is the only true faith, although I disagree with fundamentalists about the rules on which someone must agree to be considered a "Christian" (but I imagine many people here do as well). I consider abortion evil, homosexuality evil, etc. I grew up in a church that was very conservative, and continue to have most of their conservative views.
Nudity is just one of those places where I happen to disagree.
Some points for your consideration:
When Adam and Eve are described as being naked and unashamed, the original Hebrew word there does mean physically naked. When they eat from the tree, they suddenly realize that they are "naked" - but not naked in a physical sense. The original text uses a different word, which could be translated as meaning basically "naked before God" - in the sense that they realize that God now sees into their hearts and knows what really happened. In that context, it would make perfect sense to develop some kind of clothing, as a child might hide under a blanket when he or she fears punishment.
Adam and Eve were the only people in the world at this time. So, they were effectively naked only in front of each other and God. If we assume that they were married by God (which should be a safe assumption considering they had offspring and were never punished for *that*), then by the previous argument that people should only be naked around their spouses, there still would not have been a need for them to have clothing. That leaves two possibilities for why God gave them clothing:
1) Nudity is still evil even around your spouse
2) The clothing was created for some other purpose than simply covering nudity
I hope we can all agree that #1 is complete rubbish, as sex would be difficult without some exposure, and there are other instances of positive nudity in the Bible (which I'll get to momentarily).
If the clothing was created for a different purpose, then what? There are a lot of possibilities here. I won't even try to list them all, but the two that come to my mind first are:
1) Adam and Eve had already chosen clothing for themselves - God simply gave them something more sturdy so that their clothes wouldn't keep falling apart.
2) God was giving them protection from the harsh world he was sending them into.
I like #2. For me, it shows that God is still loving and protective even when He's punishing them for doing the wrong thing. He's not just throwing them out of the garden and letting them completely fend for themselves, but rather giving them some help, making sure that they can survive. I may be wrong about it, sure, but none of you were there either, and this makes a lot more sense than many of the alternatives.
Now, as to the rest of the Bible:
When nudity is described in the Bible as being shameful, it always takes place within the context of an affliction: ie,
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?" (Romans 8:35, NIV).
This is the concept of someone who doesn't want to be naked, but doesn't have a choice. A man who is beaten and left naked on the side of the road has been afflicted with nakedness. A man who is impoverished and can't afford clothing is also afflicted with nakedness. A man who passes out drunk in his tent may also be said to be afflicted with nakedness (depending on why he did so!). Paul describes himself as having been naked as part of his work:
"I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked" (2 Corinthians 11:27, NIV).
Yes, Paul "suffered" these things, but he did so willingly as a sacrifice for God, and therefore his nakedness was not shameful.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 3:17:04 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6960
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: traisjames
hey, just a thought I had while in the shower...do you believe that its a sin to be nude while in the shower?
Why would it be? You're alone and not tempted or tempting others to stumble. You're still be modest.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 4:29:34 PM
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reillan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Why would it be? You're alone and not tempted or tempting others to stumble. You're still be modest.
So is the defining factor being alone, or being not tempted and not tempting others to stumble?
Because it should be the latter, and in a naturist setting the latter is not an issue. People who would have an issue with it, because they haven't been in a naturist environment before, can't possibly understand that. If you're not used to seeing certain parts of the body, then naturally when you do see them you might feel lust. When everything's out in the open, however, it becomes boring :)
Recent studies on sexual desire indicate exactly what naturists have known for years: it's the act of hiding and slowly revealing the body that inspires lust, not the common exposure of the body. Many years ago, it was enough for a girl to show a little bit of leg to do the trick, and now women regularly walk around in short skirts and tank tops.
If you're not tempted by the well-proportioned girl in aforementioned dress, then I doubt you'd have any problems at a naturist resort anyway. And if you are tempted by such a girl, you really shouldn't ever go outside, especially in the summer :)
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 4:58:28 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6960
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From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: reillan
If you're not tempted by the well-proportioned girl in aforementioned dress, then I doubt you'd have any problems at a naturist resort anyway. And if you are tempted by such a girl, you really shouldn't ever go outside, especially in the summer :)
Why does the woman have to be well-proportioned to be tempting?
BTW- I'm a female, I'm not attracted to women in any attire.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 6:03:36 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
People who would have an issue with it, because they haven't been in a naturist environment before, can't possibly understand that. If you're not used to seeing certain parts of the body, then naturally when you do see them you might feel lust. When everything's out in the open, however, it becomes boring :)
You really should read through this entire thread before coming in here and trying to post the virtues of a lifestyle that's akin to idol worship. You're using the same argument that has been used to perpetuate racism, "You're not that color, you wouldn't understand." Whether everything is out in the open or completely covered up, the human mind is perfectly capable of thinking lustful thoughts. Just because someone claims there is no sexual deviance in a naturist setting does not make it fact. I suppose that you are right about one thing. Seeing that many nude bodies would become boring. I would imagine that for males learning how to control physical arousal would make naked females feel boring.
quote:
Recent studies on sexual desire indicate exactly what naturists have known for years: it's the act of hiding and slowly revealing the body that inspires lust, not the common exposure of the body. Many years ago, it was enough for a girl to show a little bit of leg to do the trick, and now women regularly walk around in short skirts and tank tops.
No, it's not the slow revealing, it's the anticipation of the act of sex. For heavens sake, all it takes for some men to become aroused is for a woman to whisper in their ear, or to catch the scent of a perfume, or.... Lust is not caused solely by visual stimulation. Lust exists in the ind and, therefore, can be controlled.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Those of you who profess Christ and add this caveat of your alternative lifestyle to your walk with Christ are a stumbling block to many. You dress it up (or undress it) as this harmless, misunderstood activity and invite your family, friends and neighbors into the lions den where they will fall victim to those who are only out to gratify self at the expense of another.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 9:14:58 PM
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reillan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: reillan
If you're not tempted by the well-proportioned girl in aforementioned dress, then I doubt you'd have any problems at a naturist resort anyway. And if you are tempted by such a girl, you really shouldn't ever go outside, especially in the summer :)
Why does the woman have to be well-proportioned to be tempting?
BTW- I'm a female, I'm not attracted to women in any attire.
It was a statement of convenience - a way of describing a situation many people would find tempting to use as an example. It isn't meant to be a general rule applying to everyone.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 9:40:41 PM
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reillan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
You really should read through this entire thread before coming in here and trying to post the virtues of a lifestyle that's akin to idol worship. You're using the same argument that has been used to perpetuate racism, "You're not that color, you wouldn't understand."
If you did understand, we wouldn't be having this discussion :)
And no, it's not akin to idol worship. When you spend all day plopped down in front of a TV to watch a football game rather than going to church, THAT is idol worship. It's instead simply an activity. It's no different than how some people might spend a day at a regular park, whereas other people wouldn't enjoy the park at all.
If it were idol worship, it would come between me and God. It doesn't. God is the absolute first priority in my life. If there were ever a time I became convinced that naturism is wrong, I would immediately turn from it. There was a time in my life when I was dating a very Godly woman who had difficulties dealing with the concept of naturism, so I gave it up completely because I did not want to cause her any difficulty. We broke up later, not because of this (I didn't care less about it, and she in fact came to accept it as something that could be positive for Christians, although she did not want to do it herself), but because we simply wanted to go two different directions in life. She is the strongest Christian I know, and we're still good friends.
quote:
Whether everything is out in the open or completely covered up, the human mind is perfectly capable of thinking lustful thoughts. Just because someone claims there is no sexual deviance in a naturist setting does not make it fact. I suppose that you are right about one thing. Seeing that many nude bodies would become boring. I would imagine that for males learning how to control physical arousal would make naked females feel boring.
There isn't any need to learn how to control physical arousal, because it simply doesn't happen. Yes, the human mind is capable of thinking lustful thoughts at any time, but that means that we're all sinning when we lust regardless of the setting. The presence or lack of clothes doesn't change that fact. What we must do, as Christians, is learn to let the Holy Spirit lead us rather than our carnal desires. For some Christians, that will mean not being at a nude beach. For others, not so much.
quote:
No, it's not the slow revealing, it's the anticipation of the act of sex. For heavens sake, all it takes for some men to become aroused is for a woman to whisper in their ear, or to catch the scent of a perfume, or.... Lust is not caused solely by visual stimulation. Lust exists in the ind and, therefore, can be controlled.
Here you are correct. The anticipation of the act of sex, however, is caused by the revealing. In US culture, we only take off our clothes around those of the opposite sex when we are about to engage in sexual activity. That makes the act of revealing akin to the act of sex. This is also why so many people have a problem with the concept of naturism - because US culture is nude only for sex. When you change your mindset regarding nudity, it no longer has to take place only in the bedroom and thus does not lead to sexual arousal.
That does not mean that a naturist can't find sexual arousal. Just as you said, a whisper or a scent can be enough to cause it. We're not asexual creatures; rather, we're people who are not inspired with sexual thoughts simply because someone is naked.
This is where the comment comes from, "nude does not equal lewd." For 98% of Americans, nude does indeed equal lewd, because Americans are only used to it in terms of sex. Look at France, however. There, nude beaches are common, rapes are much less common, and, as one of my friends from France told me when I was a 14-year-old who had not yet learned about naturism, "Why are you Americans so excited by nudity? In France, we could care less!" Yes, in some ways nudity there is still used for arousal, but it doesn't *have* to be for arousal like it seems to be here.
Edit: A further example: the one place we don't consider nudity to equal sex in US culture is the doctor's office. The doctor is expected and accepted to be a scientist who is not bothered by nudity and who has a medical necessity to deal with nudity in certain cases. Case in point: I had a medical exam about two years ago where I had to be nude under a medical gown. I had a female doctor at the time. There was a nurse on hand, theoretically to make the patient feel better (and provide some legal coverage) that no funny business would be going on. However, the nurse kept making sure to look EVERYWHERE but at me. She looked at the ceiling, the walls, the doctor, anywhere but at me. The doctor, however, couldn't care less about my nudity. She had a job to do, and did it very professionally. Most Christians (I say most, because there are some for whom this situation would be a problem) do not have the same compulsions about nudity regarding doctors that they do regarding everyone else. It was no more sinful for me to be examined by a female doctor than it would have been for me to have been examined by a male doctor. Besides, in this day and age, for all we know the male doctor could be gay and could still be lusting!
quote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Those of you who profess Christ and add this caveat of your alternative lifestyle to your walk with Christ are a stumbling block to many. You dress it up (or undress it) as this harmless, misunderstood activity and invite your family, friends and neighbors into the lions den where they will fall victim to those who are only out to gratify self at the expense of another.
If it were about self-gratification, absolutely. It's not. We invite people merely to test. Paul says to "Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil" (I Thess. 5:21-22). That means, approach everything with an open mind, give yourself time to consider the implications fully and pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit as you read through the Bible. If, after careful study, you still determine it's wrong, then you're welcome to disagree, but you must approach the issue with an open mind first. You must understand, I came to naturism completely on my own, through careful study of the Bible. There was no naturist who told me "hey, you can do this and still be a Christian," and I sought the advice of other Christians before delving into it. It was not a "hey, I really want to see other people naked" idea - it was a "hey, why do we as Americans believe this when there's nothing in the Bible about it? That's odd, I should investigate it more."
Even once I had decided that there was nothing inherently wrong with it, I still didn't consider myself a naturist until I actually visited a resort for myself. Why? Because I still needed to fully test it, to see whether it was a good thing or a bad thing. I kid you not, within an hour I was convinced it was great!
We actually hold worship services there now. We're building a church. Not because we want to put nudity ahead of God, but because we believe that God is the most important thing. There are those at the resort who are not Christians, and because we have loving, Christ-like relationships with them, we are more able to serve God there, by ministering to those who are lost.
< Message edited by reillan -- 6/1/2008 9:51:39 PM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 10:34:30 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
approach everything with an open mind, give yourself time to consider the implications fully and pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit as you read through the Bible. If, after careful study, you still determine it's wrong, then you're welcome to disagree, but you must approach the issue with an open mind first.
Okay, you're new here. Seems that this is the first thread you may have jumped into. You won't be the first or the last. As for having an open mind. You make an assumption that I am coming at this with the typical biases of most in the Christian community.
Although I've never particiapted in a naturist setting, I have been introduced to it. As a young 18 year old overly curious boy, I met some older folks who "mentored" me. I heard all the lines about the innocense of nudism and how all the sexual games were not allowed in the camp. At the same time, these mentors were plotting how they were going to get with this one or that one. These "mentors" thought about sex all day and all night. They were very good at playing the game. Excellent communicators; adept at building trust with others; then using others to scratch their own itch. You can say this does not occur in your naturist camp, but how can you be sure.
Add to the experience of my wild, inquisitive youth, five years of supervising sex offenders in the community; cofacilitating sex offender treatment and getting into the minds of men and women to discover how they think. Discover how their thinking sets up sexual encounters with others solely to satisfy self via use of another.
While you portray it as this innocent "activity," you are leading others into the pit as you blindly walk into the abyss.
While you may have sev eral examples of individuals you know or have known, how do you know what's truly on their heart? In the example of the doctor, how do you know if the doctor is aroused or not. In my occupation I get to see all kinds of flesh. If it does arouse me, I have to remain professional and not let it show. You seem to want to make this all about clothes. The psychology of this whoe thing is much deeper than you could imagine. I suggest you take some time and read through this whole lengthy discussion before you add more benefits of your lifestyle.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 10:54:55 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17146
Joined: 2/28/2005
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It's funny, but as far as I can remember (and I could be wrong) we haven't had one female in this thread who advocates Nudism. It's all been males.
Just an observation.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 11:19:37 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
It's funny, but as far as I can remember (and I could be wrong) we haven't had one female in this thread who advocates Nudism. It's all been males.
Just an observation.
I wouldn't be shocked to find it so.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 11:20:53 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6960
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
It's funny, but as far as I can remember (and I could be wrong) we haven't had one female in this thread who advocates Nudism. It's all been males.
Just an observation.
I hadn't noticed, but I think you're right.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/1/2008 11:29:43 PM
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reillan
Posts: 40
Joined: 5/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
Although I've never particiapted in a naturist setting, I have been introduced to it. As a young 18 year old overly curious boy, I met some older folks who "mentored" me. I heard all the lines about the innocense of nudism and how all the sexual games were not allowed in the camp. At the same time, these mentors were plotting how they were going to get with this one or that one. These "mentors" thought about sex all day and all night. They were very good at playing the game. Excellent communicators; adept at building trust with others; then using others to scratch their own itch. You can say this does not occur in your naturist camp, but how can you be sure.
And see, that is a valid reason to believe it to be wrong. That doesn't mean I agree, but it is a valid reason.
I agree that there are dangerous people who come into naturism because they want to fulfill their own perversions. There are dangerous people who teach in school, drive the bus, become youth ministers or priests, and so on. Any time we put people in a situation where they're able to have close, private contact with children, we run the risk of giving those responsibilities to predators.
The good thing, though, is that people at a naturist facility are more likely to notice. That's because it's a close-knit family of people, and we all watch out for each other. If I see someone who I don't think is behaving appropriately toward children, you'd better believe I'll do something about it! Whereas in other places, I can't be sure that'll happen.
You had a very bad experience, and I feel sorry for you for it. Don't assume that's the rule when it's the extremely limited exception, however.
Having such an experience is like saying school is bad because there are teachers and janitors who have abused kids, or that church is bad because there are elders and preachers who have abused kids.
2nd edit: Yes, I'm calling you as an 18-year-old a kid, because I'm getting old. Get off my lawn. :) But also because that image of an older person trying to tempt you into a sinful lifestyle is one that most often makes news when it involves younger children, and that's really the biggest concern I think anyone would have regarding it.
1st edit: oh, and I'm not new here. I was here when this place was first created (in fact, as it was being created). I just got burnt out on these forums a long time ago.
< Message edited by reillan -- 6/2/2008 12:06:06 AM >
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 8:30:32 AM
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reillan
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Also, your argument that it's wrong because of the people you met there, that argument is a logical fallacy:
Association Fallacy
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 12:56:01 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
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I still stand by my original thought:
Quit trying to convince people with common sense that being nekked around other people will not tempt or lead to sin, and put some clothes on.
Some guys will go to any length to pull the wool over someone's eyes.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 1:25:05 PM
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bluestone
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Nekid is as nekid does.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 1:37:11 PM
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reillan
Posts: 40
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
I still stand by my original thought:
Quit trying to convince people with common sense that being nekked around other people will not tempt or lead to sin, and put some clothes on.
Some guys will go to any length to pull the wool over someone's eyes.
Wow, great argument. I'm totally convinced now.
BTW, quit just accusing us of trying to deceive you. I'm not. I don't really care what you believe regarding the sinfulness or lack thereof of nudity, but I would like you to at least acknowledge that it's possible that I could believe in it without compromising my faith. It's the argument of:
"It's sinful for me, but it may not be sinful for you."
And yes, there are situations that occur like that all the time. For an old southern baptist, dancing is sinful - for a modern baptist, it's not. They can both be right. In Romans 14, Paul illustrates this principle beautifully:
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. (Romans 14:13-18)
The kingdom of God is also not a matter of clothing, as evidenced by the fact that Adam and Eve started out naked. The only thing that matters is that we glorify God.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 1:58:40 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Kath
It's funny, but as far as I can remember (and I could be wrong) we haven't had one female in this thread who advocates Nudism. It's all been males.
Just an observation.
Keen observation Kath. I've noticed this in each and every one of the nudism threads that's been generated.
quote:
I agree that there are dangerous people who come into naturism because they want to fulfill their own perversions. There are dangerous people who teach in school, drive the bus, become youth ministers or priests, and so on. Any time we put people in a situation where they're able to have close, private contact with children, we run the risk of giving those responsibilities to predators.
The good thing, though, is that people at a naturist facility are more likely to notice. That's because it's a close-knit family of people, and we all watch out for each other. If I see someone who I don't think is behaving appropriately toward children, you'd better believe I'll do something about it! Whereas in other places, I can't be sure that'll happen.
I get the impression you didn't read the rest of my post or you chose to ignore it. Yes, there are dangerous people everywhere. How are people in a nudist colony more likely to notice? how are they going to notice any more than people inside the traditional church would notice? Is the lack of clothing going to give it away? If men get so good at controlling their physical arousal that a naked person becomes "boring," how is anyone going to notice that someone is grooming another for sexual purposes?
As I said, I've worked with those who've been caught in sex crimes. I spent five years getting inside their heads, working with them in treatment, supervising them in the community, getting to know their families, employers, friends, etc. I've seen families that identify themselves as close knit either not know sexual abuse was occurring or attempt to cover it up to protect the accused family member.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 2:55:04 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17146
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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How do nudists reconcile all the verses about modesty with their view on nudism? How can someone think one can be a nudist and still be modest?
I ran a search on the word modest in this thread and unless the search engine is down it did not come up with one hit.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 5:04:18 PM
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bluegravel
Posts: 81
Joined: 5/30/2008
Status: offline
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Nudity is natural - it's the clothes that are sinful!
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 5:06:47 PM
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reillan
Posts: 40
Joined: 5/28/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
I get the impression you didn't read the rest of my post or you chose to ignore it. Yes, there are dangerous people everywhere. How are people in a nudist colony more likely to notice? how are they going to notice any more than people inside the traditional church would notice? Is the lack of clothing going to give it away? If men get so good at controlling their physical arousal that a naked person becomes "boring," how is anyone going to notice that someone is grooming another for sexual purposes?
As I said, I've worked with those who've been caught in sex crimes. I spent five years getting inside their heads, working with them in treatment, supervising them in the community, getting to know their families, employers, friends, etc. I've seen families that identify themselves as close knit either not know sexual abuse was occurring or attempt to cover it up to protect the accused family member.
And you still have yet to accept the fact that your argument is an association fallacy.
Nudists are more likely to notice it because we constantly get people who accuse nudists of being evil, of engaging in inappropriate relationships, etc. without anything actually going on. Look at the issues that came out with Representative Foley. He always argued that teenagers at naturist facilities were being abused because of the idea that they couldn't see each other nude without having raging hormones, and it turns out it was his own hormones that were raging. Even though not all naturists are Christian, we all still live by the motto:
"Abstain from all appearance of evil" (1 Thess. 5:22, KJV)
While that is a mistranslation by modern understanding, the implication is still an important one: we don't want anyone being able to accuse us of wrongdoing, not because there is wrongdoing, but because the threat of such accusation is constant and every little thing can be used to bring about such accusations. People don't like naturists because we don't agree with what the rest of US culture dictates is appropriate. That doesn't make us freaks or evildoers, but it does make us different from the accepted cultural norm, and people don't like things that are different. Because of this, we're always on the defensive and always looking for ways to improve our ability to prevent such things before they happen. This includes awareness training for our children and teens, so that they can spot when someone is behaving inappropriately toward them. This also includes not allowing sex offenders even onto the grounds! Your churches, your schools, your clubs and organizations don't even do that.
Fact: all crime rates are lower at naturist facilities. That includes sex crimes, thefts, assaults, etc. Not because of any attempted coverup of these crimes, but because we try our hardest to prevent them.
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RE: Nude Resorts or Beaches - 6/2/2008 5:13:05 PM
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reillan
Posts: 40
Joined: 5/28/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
How do nudists reconcile all the verses about modesty with their view on nudism? How can someone think one can be a nudist and still be modest?
I ran a search on the word modest in this thread and unless the search engine is down it did not come up with one hit.
Muslims would argue that if a woman isn't clothed from head to toe, so that you can't see any of her at all, she's being immodest.
If you disagree with that, how do you reconcile it?
What is it about certain sections of skin that makes them more immodest?
The male breast, if provided estrogen, operates in the same fashion as the female breast. Why is a man's chest decent and a woman's obscene? Why is it only the nipple that must technically be covered in order to prevent immodesty?
We believe, quite frankly, that immodesty is a function of more than just clothes. You can be modest while wearing nothing, and you can be immodest while fully covered. It is the way the clothes are worn, the actions taken by the man or woman in that setting, that describes immodest behavior. The kind of dancing people do at modern nightclubs would be immodest, whereas people simply lying in poolchairs catching some sun retain their modesty.
"'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.'" - Luke 12:27
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