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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 11:11:54 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1640
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ctipton
Rich,
I guess I don't know who you are addressing. If it includes me, you are going to have to let me know. I just recall that you usually present those who disagree with you on this topic in a manner that they would disagree with.
Charlie, actually I'm not, simply due to the fact that our interactions here are fairly recent and until a short while ago I had not really seen you here much; hence, I don't know what you said re: Iranian nukes if anything at all.
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"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 1:02:47 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10845
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Rich, since according to the links you posted that Iran HALTED their nuclear weapons program, do you now admit that they in fact HAD a nuclear weapons program?
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 1:06:01 PM
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RichLP
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Ben, I hate it when people answer a question with a question.
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"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 1:13:06 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10845
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I'm not answering a question, I'm asking one.
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 1:32:49 PM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
I'm not answering a question, I'm asking one.
I asked one earlier. I don't see why you asked me this without answering what I said.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 1:59:54 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10845
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(games again...) 
I'll be as clear as I can on this. I believe Charlie summed it up well when he states that common sense tells a thinking person that Iran is/was going after nuclear weapons. Does that cover what you were looking for? For no, there isn't that hard proof available that without a doubt tells of their plans as far as going after nuclear weapons. They are a country with secrets much like other countries.
Now I ditto the question in post 27.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 2:34:22 PM
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stamper_ben
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Not gonna answer are you.
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 2:36:10 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1640
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Not gonna answer are you.
Playing games again. (SNICKER)
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 2:41:08 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10845
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I figured...
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 2:46:41 PM
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stamper_ben
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Coulda fooled me...
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 2:53:46 PM
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ctipton
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quote:
Of course every country has secrets, but to the best knowledge of our country's intelligence resources, it has been determined Iran was not pursuing nukes for the past few years, in blatant contradiction to what Bush, Cheney, others said.
I am not sure that I trust this characterization.
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 5:45:28 PM
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ljmac
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First Libya now Iraq. They both gave up WMD programs when GWB was President. Only in America do we get mad at our leader when the enemy drops their weapons.
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/4/2007 5:47:53 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
First Libya now Iraq. They both gave up WMD programs when GWB was President. Only in America do we get mad at our leader when the enemy drops their weapons.
You should warn us when you are being sarcastic.
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Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/5/2007 8:24:48 AM
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ctipton
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Rich,
I thought this might be of interest to you and others. The article in the Washington Post describes some changes in the way in which the nation analyzes information by making it available to more intelligence, by being more open about what they do not know and by being more cautious is discarding intelligence that is contrary to the other data.
quote:
The starkly different view of Iran's nuclear program that emerged from U.S. spy agencies this week was the product of a surge in clandestine intelligence-gathering in Iran as well as radical changes in the way the intelligence community analyzes information.
Drawing lessons from the intelligence debacle over supposed Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell required agencies to consult more sources and to say to a larger intelligence community audience precisely what they know and how they know it -- and to acknowledge, to a degree previously unheard of, what they do not know.
" 'Do not know' is a new technical term for an NIE," said a senior official who was involved in preparation of the report, known as a National Intelligence Estimate.
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, December 5, 2007; Page A01
LINK
link requires registration
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/5/2007 8:55:55 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1640
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ctipton
Rich,
I thought this might be of interest to you and others. The article in the Washington Post describes some changes in the way in which the nation analyzes information by making it available to more intelligence, by being more open about what they do not know and by being more cautious is discarding intelligence that is contrary to the other data.
quote:
The starkly different view of Iran's nuclear program that emerged from U.S. spy agencies this week was the product of a surge in clandestine intelligence-gathering in Iran as well as radical changes in the way the intelligence community analyzes information.
Drawing lessons from the intelligence debacle over supposed Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell required agencies to consult more sources and to say to a larger intelligence community audience precisely what they know and how they know it -- and to acknowledge, to a degree previously unheard of, what they do not know.
" 'Do not know' is a new technical term for an NIE," said a senior official who was involved in preparation of the report, known as a National Intelligence Estimate.
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, December 5, 2007; Page A01
LINK
link requires registration
I'd rather have, Charlie, this NIE telling us this now than we finding out later they didn't have nukes... AFTER we attacked their country.
Iran is not seeking nuclear weapons, as Ccoppenbarger, myself, and others here stated. Let's focus on finishing the two very messy wars we already have in place before launching a 3rd one.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/5/2007 9:31:41 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10845
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Rich, since according to the links you posted that Iran HALTED their nuclear weapons program, do you now admit that they in fact HAD a nuclear weapons program?
Well?
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/5/2007 9:52:16 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10845
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
I'll be as clear as I can on this. I believe Charlie summed it up well when he states that common sense tells a thinking person that Iran is/was going after nuclear weapons. Does that cover what you were looking for? For no, there isn't that hard proof available that without a doubt tells of their plans as far as going after nuclear weapons. They are a country with secrets much like other countries.
I'm sorry you didn't accept this as an answer as I guess it didn't (admittedly) have the links you wanted.
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/5/2007 10:07:46 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1640
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
I'm sorry you didn't accept this as an answer as I guess it didn't (admittedly) have the links you wanted.
The issue about Iran was that it was BUILDING NUKES, according to the Bush administration. Some people here, including YOU, believed this and said it was a serious issue.
What sources did YOU, BEN, have?
Or are you going to retreat into your "Rich, I pray you grant me the right to answer questions as I see fit mode?"
As I said - good morning to you too.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/5/2007 11:22:49 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10845
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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Quote me where I said Iran was BUILDING nukes. I said, and still believe, that they are on a program, currently stopped or not, to develop a nuclear weapon.
Now I'll ask for the last time - Rich, since according to the links you posted that Iran HALTED their nuclear weapons program, do you now admit that they in fact HAD a nuclear weapons program?
Yes or No will suffice.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/5/2007 11:55:44 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 871
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I thought this might be of interest to you and others. The article in the Washington Post describes some changes in the way in which the nation analyzes information by making it available to more intelligence, by being more open about what they do not know and by being more cautious is discarding intelligence that is contrary to the other data.
quote:
The starkly different view of Iran's nuclear program that emerged from U.S. spy agencies this week was the product of a surge in clandestine intelligence-gathering in Iran as well as radical changes in the way the intelligence community analyzes information.
Drawing lessons from the intelligence debacle over supposed Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell required agencies to consult more sources and to say to a larger intelligence community audience precisely what they know and how they know it -- and to acknowledge, to a degree previously unheard of, what they do not know.
" 'Do not know' is a new technical term for an NIE," said a senior official who was involved in preparation of the report, known as a National Intelligence Estimate.
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, December 5, 2007; Page A01
Charlie,
That is encouraging. Our human intelligence capabilities have been sorely lacking (especially in the Middle East) so it's good to see progress.
To a large extent the Iraq war came as a result of poor intelligence (single source) combined with political leaders who implied they knew a lot more than they actually did. Let's hope we have learned some lessons as we deal with Iran.
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/5/2007 11:56:10 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1640
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Quote me where I said Iran was BUILDING nukes. I said, and still believe, that they are on a program, currently stopped or not, to develop a nuclear weapon.
You never quoted me on accusations you made about what I said, so what gives you the right to ask me to quote you? LOL
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Now I'll ask for the last time - Rich, since according to the links you posted that Iran HALTED their nuclear weapons program, do you now admit that they in fact HAD a nuclear weapons program?
Will that make you feel better?
Because you and others who said a war on Iran would've been justifiable on grounds Iran was developing nuclear weapons now have nothing to say about the nukes Iran wasn't even trying to build.
A last straw? "ah, but at least they had a program in place..."
If you can show me evidence that Iran was, till 2003, laboring to craft nukes, then we'll talk. Because you lack such evidence and the NIE's classified parts are not for my eyes or yours.
Yes or No will suffice.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Iran not building nukes - 12/5/2007 11:58:42 AM
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wing2000
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Rich - StamperBen: Enough already!
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