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RE: Mormonism? - 7/9/2008 10:26:25 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4470
Joined: 4/12/2005
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It's pretty close to the NKJV.
NKJV But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
KJV But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
The Complete Jewish Version has an interesting translation of that:
Galatians 1:8 But even if we-or, for that matter, an angel from heaven!-were to announce to you some so-called "Good News" contrary to the Good News we did announce to you, let him be under a curse forever!
quote:
We are studying the BOM this year and I had a question about what opinion your LDS acquaintances might have about the politics in the BOM and how it may parallel the politics in this country....but seeing that Mormonism bores you....nevermind.
Did I say that mormonism bores me? I could ask if you want me to. Is this like a study into end times? Do mormons think we are close to the end times?
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/9/2008 10:32:07 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Used to be - all the endowments in the temple and became a temple worker. While working in the temple, the teachers or instuctors or whatever they were called, disagreed on minor details of the signs and gestures. This was the end of LDS for me (2 1/2 years). Their principles and intentions take a back seat to the perfect wording and hand positions in the signs. This was true even in the weekly sacraments. A young man with a speech impediment was giving the "Eternal Father" blessing over the bread or water and was made to do it over and over because he mispronounced a word. That had to be humiliating to him.
Anyway, I'll truly pray for you that you will see Truth.
-Dave
You left over minor details and a prayer??
BTW, they are called the "sacrament prayers" not the "Eternal Father"blessing....and I have witnessed that too...either he eventually gets it or the other priest will do it for him...either way it's forgotten once the talks start...at least in the wards I have been in.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/9/2008 10:37:24 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sonrise
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sonrise
Hey Harvest Honey,
I have an "odd" question that has nothing to do with LDS. I'm so curious what you think about what's going on in Lakeland? I'd like the perspective of someone who many of us feel is outside the realm of normal Christianity. I don't mean that as a put down in any way, so please forgive me if it sounds that way. I'd just like your opinion on it. Sometimes I think about how it would play out if a Mormon showed up at the doorstep of a JW or vice versa. Things like these interest me. Thanks
What's going on in Lakeland?...Where is Lakeland?
But for the other...When a JW comes to my door...and it has been a while...I listen to their message and thank them for the literature. I am not into arguing religion. The JW's aren't the only ones to come to my door. I buy plenty of things to help support fund raisers for youth missions--which are mostly Baptist kids.
Uh, the 120 page thread right above this.  I take it you only read the mormon thread? I'd really like your perspective on Lakeland. Thanks
I looked it up...As for my perspective....I don't have one....no opinion, either. I do peruse the other threads but rarely post.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/9/2008 10:44:08 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
It's pretty close to the NKJV.
NKJV But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
KJV But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
The Complete Jewish Version has an interesting translation of that:
Galatians 1:8 But even if we-or, for that matter, an angel from heaven!-were to announce to you some so-called "Good News" contrary to the Good News we did announce to you, let him be under a curse forever!
quote:
We are studying the BOM this year and I had a question about what opinion your LDS acquaintances might have about the politics in the BOM and how it may parallel the politics in this country....but seeing that Mormonism bores you....nevermind.
Did I say that mormonism bores me? I could ask if you want me to. Is this like a study into end times? Do mormons think we are close to the end times?
Sorry misspoke...Mormonism depresses you....makes more sense.
Not the end times...not sure exactly. The BOM is about 2 nations fighting over control of a country...I can't help but see a parallel between the Nephites and Lamanites and Republican and Democrats. Just wondering what they think.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/9/2008 10:51:10 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
My eternity will not be spent populating a planet—my eternity will be spent worshiping the one and only true God forever.
If you don't want to populate a planet...then it will probably be given to someone else! 
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 9:12:19 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Jimbo noted his version here in bold blue:
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
My Bible(KJV) refers to Jesus as the "god of this world".
Really? I find a different story, one that might fit Smith and Mormonism, but not Jesus:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
-2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
I'm wondering why you are asking, harvesthoney. Is there something wrong with the scriptures Jimbo has used?
Because this isn't KJV from post #1493
"FYI, Smith and Mormonism can be clearly seen in Galatians 1, verse 8:
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! "
I'm tickled that you allow me to post this once again, especially for lurkers who might be wondering about the Mormon claims, claims that Paul warned about 1800 or so years earlier:
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
-Galatians 1:8 (King James Version)
By his claims, Smith marked himself accursed of God. The remarkable thing to me is that people still gave - and continue to give - Smith ear to listen to his further perversion of scripture and of God the Son.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 9:42:09 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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It was much more than those things I mentioned in the post. I, my wife, and daughter experienced some pretty spiritually disturbing things while we were members. Thankfully, we saw the light and got out.
I mentioned what I did in my post to show everyone that the intent of the "sacrament prayers" and the symbols are not as important as getting wording exactly correct, hand positions exact, etc. What is more important, the intent or correcting a person with a speech defect who is doing his best to say things correctly?
The LDS people we met were very nice people and I have nothing at all against them. But the doctrine is not Christian. No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, or how you dress a pig, it's still a pig.
In Christ,
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Used to be - all the endowments in the temple and became a temple worker. While working in the temple, the teachers or instuctors or whatever they were called, disagreed on minor details of the signs and gestures. This was the end of LDS for me (2 1/2 years). Their principles and intentions take a back seat to the perfect wording and hand positions in the signs. This was true even in the weekly sacraments. A young man with a speech impediment was giving the "Eternal Father" blessing over the bread or water and was made to do it over and over because he mispronounced a word. That had to be humiliating to him.
Anyway, I'll truly pray for you that you will see Truth.
-Dave
You left over minor details and a prayer??
BTW, they are called the "sacrament prayers" not the "Eternal Father"blessing....and I have witnessed that too...either he eventually gets it or the other priest will do it for him...either way it's forgotten once the talks start...at least in the wards I have been in.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 11:17:11 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4470
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Jimbo,
It is an excellent passage!
quote:
The Complete Jewish Version has an interesting translation of that:
Galatians 1:8 But even if we-or, for that matter, an angel from heaven!-were to announce to you some so-called "Good News" contrary to the Good News we did announce to you, let him be under a curse forever!
davemiller,
Thank you for posting in this thread.
I have questions, if you are interested in answering. If not, I understand and it's ok!
I would love to hear more of your story. Were you raised mormon? How did you and your wife get connected with the mormon church?
Anyone who reads mormon theology like this link I provided earlier can see the innane craziness of it and how it clearly is NOT Christian. Was there a time when you were deceived and thought they were Christian? Was there a specific moment when you realized they were NOT Christian?
Some mormons leave mormonism and completely reject Christianity in consequence--partly due to the horrid way mormonism mixes Christian terminology and misuses the Bible. It can be hard for them to find the truth through all the false theology they were taught. What helped you to become a Christian instead of rejecting it along with mormonism?
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 1:17:48 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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OK, you asked for it. Here’s a summary of our “great adventure.” Our whole story is too long, involved, and deep to go into in this forum, but believe me, stay away from that "church."
My present (2nd) wife was raised and baptized Methodist, I was raised and baptized Presbyterian. My first wife was an agnostic, could hardly get her into a church, so I fell away too (not in faith, just in attending). When wife #2 and I got married we began searching for a church. The first thing that happened was we got tangled up with the Mormons, my adult stepdaughter too. That was a mistake! It lasted about 2 ½ years. We had become good little Mormons - went through all their rituals and became temple workers.
The people were fine, you can't find a nicer group of people than the Mormons, but the "religion" is not Christian. And a person doesn't find this out when they first are sucked into it. They make it all sound so good at first. Then they tell you not to listen to or read anything from any other church (particularly the Baptists, or the Catholics). Most, but not all, believe that the Catholic Church is the great Satan of the book of Revelation. This was one of the first warning signs we met.
Things began to happen. Our car nearly went out of control one Sunday morning on the way to church, began having discomforting feelings in the church and in the temple (like it’s not Christian, and of gloom and despair), and in spite of being in the “church” for 2 ½ years, I never had a testimony. Testimonies that we heard constantly were little more than “I know this church is the true church. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know that Gordon Hinckley is the prophet……” I thought, “this is testimony?”
There was also the matter of form over substance which I brought up in my earlier post, responding to harvesthoney, where wording of “sacramental prayers” had to be spoken precisely in spite of, as we witnessed, the young man had a speech impediment and was made to repeat it over and over until he got it right. Also, when presenting the “sacred” signs and symbols (which by the way are nearly a direct copy of those in Masonry, of which Joseph Smith was a member), they had to be done precisely, not off by a couple of degrees or a half an inch. Same problem with the temple sacraments, endowments, and rituals.
The three of us all came to the conclusion, separately, unknown to each other, that this was an evil, unChristian church and that we planned to leave. I had decided to break the news one night at home. As a coincidence(?), my wife stopped at a Christian bookstore on her way home. She felt led to stop there. She bought one of the “forbidden” books, the name of which escapes me right now. We discussed everything we had experienced, felt, and learned. We made our decision to leave the LDS church immediately.
After leaving, we all felt like a huge burden had been lifted from us, something like coming up out of Egypt, but it took a long time to shake the lingering effects. Still feeling unclean, we were all re-baptized and are involved with real Christian churches.
In Christ,
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Jimbo,
It is an excellent passage!
quote:
The Complete Jewish Version has an interesting translation of that:
Galatians 1:8 But even if we-or, for that matter, an angel from heaven!-were to announce to you some so-called "Good News" contrary to the Good News we did announce to you, let him be under a curse forever!
davemiller,
Thank you for posting in this thread.
I have questions, if you are interested in answering. If not, I understand and it's ok!
I would love to hear more of your story. Were you raised mormon? How did you and your wife get connected with the mormon church?
Anyone who reads mormon theology like this link I provided earlier can see the innane craziness of it and how it clearly is NOT Christian. Was there a time when you were deceived and thought they were Christian? Was there a specific moment when you realized they were NOT Christian?
Some mormons leave mormonism and completely reject Christianity in consequence--partly due to the horrid way mormonism mixes Christian terminology and misuses the Bible. It can be hard for them to find the truth through all the false theology they were taught. What helped you to become a Christian instead of rejecting it along with mormonism?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 2:32:31 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4470
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Davemiller,
I praise God for helping you and your family being able to get away from mormonism. So many within mormonism will begin to think that they are following a false religion, but they may lack the courage to leave or may find too many obstacles to leaving. I'm so thankful for the true testimony your life now is of God's goodness.
Thank you for sharing your story, and I pray God uses you in a big way!
I'm glad you are in this thread.
The mason connection is very bizarre. I've always been a bit baffled why mormons don't see the connection.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 3:48:27 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Thanx, we are chalking it up to a learning experience (it certainly was that). We have taught a class on Mormonism for Bible study in our present church. It was well received and went on for three weeks before the pastor decided he wanted to move on to something else.
We most assuredly didn't have any problems leaving. It was one of the best decisions I ever made.
Nothing was ever said about the Masonic connection while we were in the church. It wasn't until we were out and reading through various books and articles that we discovered that.
Nor was it said that the BOM has been revised hundreds of times over the years. So much for their version of the "true word of God," huh? And they say that our Bibles are only correct to the extent that they are translated correctly!
In Christ,
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Davemiller,
I praise God for helping you and your family being able to get away from mormonism. So many within mormonism will begin to think that they are following a false religion, but they may lack the courage to leave or may find too many obstacles to leaving. I'm so thankful for the true testimony your life now is of God's goodness.
Thank you for sharing your story, and I pray God uses you in a big way!
I'm glad you are in this thread.
The mason connection is very bizarre. I've always been a bit baffled why mormons don't see the connection.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 7:57:01 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I'm tickled that you allow me to post this once again, especially for lurkers who might be wondering about the Mormon claims, claims that Paul warned about 1800 or so years earlier:
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
-Galatians 1:8 (King James Version)
By his claims, Smith marked himself accursed of God. The remarkable thing to me is that people still gave - and continue to give - Smith ear to listen to his further perversion of scripture and of God the Son.
I'm happy you're tickled. 
What other versions of the Bible do you use? The KJV and..........
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 8:11:14 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
It was much more than those things I mentioned in the post. I, my wife, and daughter experienced some pretty spiritually disturbing things while we were members. Thankfully, we saw the light and got out.
I mentioned what I did in my post to show everyone that the intent of the "sacrament prayers" and the symbols are not as important as getting wording exactly correct, hand positions exact, etc. What is more important, the intent or correcting a person with a speech defect who is doing his best to say things correctly?
The LDS people we met were very nice people and I have nothing at all against them. But the doctrine is not Christian. No matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, or how you dress a pig, it's still a pig.
In Christ,
-Dave
I figured there had to be more. For some reason certain prayers have to be done a certain way...and I don't know why.
My struggle with church isn't with the doctrine....it's more with the people. I quit trying to be a Molly Mormon...
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 8:42:24 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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Sorry to butt in here...
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Then they tell you not to listen to or read anything from any other church (particularly the Baptists, or the Catholics).
Really, I attend Midnight Mass at Catholic church here in town every Christmas Eve. I have attended services at other church too. My husband is a convert so when we visit his mom we attend church with her.
quote:
Most, but not all, believe that the Catholic Church is the great Satan of the book of Revelation. This was one of the first warning signs we met.
Some may believe this, but it is not doctine. Although it was an opinion of BRM in Mormon Doctrine....the church renounced this...and he changed it in the second edition. Some members keep a copy of MD on their bookshelves...I tossed mine long ago.
quote:
in spite of being in the “church” for 2 ½ years, I never had a testimony. Testimonies that we heard constantly were little more than “I know this church is the true church. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know that Gordon Hinckley is the prophet……” I thought, “this is testimony?”
2 1/2 years and called to be a temple worker??? Hmmm To even get a temple recommend you had to have a testimony...A testimony consists of Knowing God lives, Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith is a prophet, The BOM is inspired and _________is a living prophet on the earth today.
You also had to answer a list of questions*.....twice. Dare I ask?? Did you LIE in these interviews???
*Some of these questions are about being honest, paying tithing, faithful in marriage, having a testimony, etc.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/10/2008 8:54:37 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
quote:
I quit trying to be a Molly Mormon...
 Back at ya, harvesthoney.
What did you begin to do differently? Just curious what you meant by the above quote.
I fit church into my schedule not the other way around. I learned to say "no". Now I don't get asked to do much....maybe take dinner to a family every once in a while. I'm out of the loop and less stressed for it.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/11/2008 7:51:03 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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#1 They probably won't excommunicate you from going to a Catholic Church on Christmas Eve, or any other time, but they strongly suggest that you don't do those things.
#2 I never said it was doctrine about the Catholic Church being the great Satan, however it is common knowledge. Our instructors (or whatever they are called) stressed that it was true. They were not run of the mill young men with backpacks on bicycles, they were an older couple, born into the religion and steeped in Mormon doctrine, from Salt Lake City who were here supervising the building of the Raleigh area temple.
#3 Did not lie on any of the questions! And please don't insinuate that I did. That's not only a personal affront to me, but also a tos violation. Let me try to explain. My wife and I were considered "golden." Don't know why, perhaps because we came to the Mormons to investigate rather than being reeled in by the boys on bikes. I did not have to put in a full year before the full Melchizadek(sp?) priesthood was bestowed on me. It came after 8-9 months. Again, I don't know why. I think it was about a year after that we started preparing for becoming temple workers. They (the local and stake center higher-ups) began grooming us for the temple from the very beginning.
In the temple interview, by the stake center president, Joseph Smith's name never came up. I do remember telling him the words "I am a child of the Living God," for my testimony. Nothing more was asked on that. We were faithful in our marriage and had been tithing. They had to take our word for the faithfulness, but the amount of tithe is on record, as you should know. At the time, I had pretty much bought into Mormonism. It wasn't until after this that the wheels began coming off.
I hope this answers your questions (and doubts to my truthfulness).
In Christ,
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
Sorry to butt in here...
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Then they tell you not to listen to or read anything from any other church (particularly the Baptists, or the Catholics).
Really, I attend Midnight Mass at Catholic church here in town every Christmas Eve. I have attended services at other church too. My husband is a convert so when we visit his mom we attend church with her.
quote:
Most, but not all, believe that the Catholic Church is the great Satan of the book of Revelation. This was one of the first warning signs we met.
Some may believe this, but it is not doctine. Although it was an opinion of BRM in Mormon Doctrine....the church renounced this...and he changed it in the second edition. Some members keep a copy of MD on their bookshelves...I tossed mine long ago.
quote:
in spite of being in the “church” for 2 ½ years, I never had a testimony. Testimonies that we heard constantly were little more than “I know this church is the true church. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know that Gordon Hinckley is the prophet……” I thought, “this is testimony?”
2 1/2 years and called to be a temple worker??? Hmmm To even get a temple recommend you had to have a testimony...A testimony consists of Knowing God lives, Jesus is the Christ, Joseph Smith is a prophet, The BOM is inspired and _________is a living prophet on the earth today.
You also had to answer a list of questions*.....twice. Dare I ask?? Did you LIE in these interviews???
*Some of these questions are about being honest, paying tithing, faithful in marriage, having a testimony, etc.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/11/2008 7:59:59 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6608
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I'm tickled that you allow me to post this once again, especially for lurkers who might be wondering about the Mormon claims, claims that Paul warned about 1800 or so years earlier:
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
-Galatians 1:8 (King James Version)
By his claims, Smith marked himself accursed of God. The remarkable thing to me is that people still gave - and continue to give - Smith ear to listen to his further perversion of scripture and of God the Son.
I'm happy you're tickled.
What other versions of the Bible do you use? The KJV and..........
Why's that so important to you? Unless you read Hebrew & Greek, all you have is some translation and I don't worship translations or translators. Like Latin, the KJV is now a static translation in a form of English no longer in use except in Shakespearian plays - which are as equally difficult to understand for the same reasons.
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RE: Mormonism? - 7/11/2008 4:24:21 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
But how do you avoid accepting a calling, and keep your temple recommend?
I have a calling, actually two....I maintain the ward website, which pretty much includes: update the calendar, help members sign up on the website, send out email anncouncements, ask/tell them to update their email addresses(which they won't do by themselves). And I do the sunday bulletin. I guess I was given these callings to keep me involved...or because Primary, Young Womens, Sunday School, and Relief Society don't wanted me.  Either way...we are all happy!!
You don't need a calling to have a TR, and I am currently holding one.
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