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talmid -> RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread (7/22/2005 12:34:47 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gambit
The Jewish Christians were insisting that the Gentile Christians needed to be circumcised and follow the law of Moses in order to be accepted into the fold. Totally missed the point of grace.
Ah, I think we are overstepping things a bit here. I don't see it as just legalism vs. grace (that is certainly present!). I see it more as a definition of salvation/inclusion.
I am willing to be wrong, but here is how I see this verse:
The pharisees would absolutely stand up and say "they must be circumcised!" because this was "the law of Moses" in reference to becoming a follower of Adonai.
quote:
Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
They were claiming that the gentiles must become Jews through full conversion (and circumcision is the sign of conversion) in order to follow Adonai (which to ANY Jew including Paul, the Pharisees (and Paul was one!) meant living according to Torah).
In order to take part in the ways of the chosen people, one had to be circumcised:
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Lev 12:48
If a foreigner staying with you wants to observe ADONAI's Pesach, all his males must be circumcised. Then he may take part and observe it; he will be like a citizen of the land. But no uncircumcised person is to eat it.
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Ezek 44:7
You brought in foreigners, uncircumcised in both heart and flesh, to be in my sanctuary and profane it - yes, my house - when you offered my food, the fat and the blood; thus in addition to all your disgusting practices, they broke my covenant.
But as we know, Gentiles were grafted into the olive tree of Israel (so many people ignore this part) and weren't required to become Jewish.
quote:
Rom 11:16-21
Now if the hallah offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole loaf. And if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches[Jews] were broken off, and you - a wild olive - [Gentile] were grafted in among them and have become equal sharers in the rich root of the olive tree, then don't boast as if you were better than the branches! However, if you do boast, remember that you are not supporting the root, the root is supporting you. So you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." True, but so what? They were broken off because of their lack of trust. However, you keep your place only because of your trust. So don't be arrogant; on the contrary, be terrified! For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly won't spare you!
Back to the topic at hand...
The Gentiles could remain uncircumcised and still be part of the children of Adonai.
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1Co 7:18 - Was someone already circumcised when he was called? Then he should not try to remove the marks of his circumcision. Was someone uncircumcised when he was called? He shouldn't undergo b'rit-milah[circumcision].
Notice that as the apostles argue with the others in the Jerusalem council (this part of it) the issue of Torah as a way of life is not discussed. It is the issue of "how is someone saved?" Some Jews though that one HAD to be circ in order to be saved. About them Scripture says:
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Gal 6:12It is those who want to look good outwardly who are trying to get you to be circumcised. The only reason they are doing it is to escape persecution for preaching about the Messiah's execution-stake. Hmm... they must have been afraid of the Jews who thought of anyone uncirc as unclean and unfit to be around, eat with, or even sit with. For this was the law of the Pharisees at that time (which goes against Torah, btw.)
Some more applicable verses which I think are just fascinating!
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Rom 4:25-29 For circumcision is indeed of value if you do what Torah says. But if you are a transgressor of Torah, your circumcision has become uncircumcision!
Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the Torah, won't his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? Indeed, the man who is physically uncircumcised but obeys the Torah will stand as a judgment on you who have had a b'rit-milah and have Torah written out but violate it!
For the real Jew is not merely Jewish outwardly: true circumcision is not only external and physical. On the contrary, the real Jew is one inwardly; and true circumcision is of the heart, spiritual not literal; so that his praise comes not from other people but from God.
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1Co 7:19 -
Being circumcised means nothing, and being uncircumcised means nothing; what does mean something is keeping God's commandments (aka Torah!).
sorry this was so long. Just looking up "circumcision" in the Crosswalk search tool was eye-opening!! Try it for yourself!
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