High Tech Witchcraft? (Full Version)

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stampinlady -> High Tech Witchcraft? (1/26/2008 10:13:53 AM)

Is this a good example of what God calls sorcery and witchcraft? Or does He mean something else? As far as I know we can't actually change shape or make a tree disapear, or can you? Is this really a door to the Occult or hype? My ds(13) plays World of Warcraft and I have some concerns about it.
http://www.probe.org/commentaries/high-tech-witchcraft.html



krazyxsinner -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/26/2008 10:25:52 AM)

No rpg's are not witchcraft any more than the mother of eight who plays Hester Prim in a play is an adulteress.



timf -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/26/2008 12:19:01 PM)

High Tech Witchcraft?

Role playing games are not as harmless as some might think. The element of theater alone is cause for some caution. Anyone who has theater experience can tell you about the type of people attracted to it.

There is an element of "pretend" found in most childhood activities. Having pretend channeled into directions that accentuate "getting what you want" may not be life crippling, but that does not make it healthy. Especially when these patterns may parallel paths that lead to demonic contact.

Pretend can take on destructive proportions when it becomes more attractive than what is real. There are vulnerable personalities for whom this would be more of a problem than others.



SteveSund -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/26/2008 1:48:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: krazyxsinner

No rpg's are not witchcraft any more than the mother of eight who plays Hester Prim in a play is an adulteress.


Having played 4 out of 5 of those games, I agree that they are just games and harmless to normal, well-adjusted people.

quote:

Pretend can take on destructive proportions when it becomes more attractive than what is real. There are vulnerable personalities for whom this would be more of a problem than others


Very true, but what percentage of people is this harmful to? There are many things that can be harmful to certain people, but that does not make the 'thing' inherently bad or evil. Look at the number of people across the world that struggle with food, whether it is obesity or anorexia. Is food evil or problematic? For most people, no.



car2ner -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/27/2008 8:53:09 AM)

quote:

Pretend can take on destructive proportions when it becomes more attractive than what is real. There are vulnerable personalities for whom this would be more of a problem than others.


World of Warcraft again? This game keeps coming up. There is a thread on Humor and Games if you want to talk to some actual players. I read the article and the discription of WoW is inaccurate. The other games I have heard of but haven't taken a fancy to so I cannot comment on them.

I am and have been an actress. I know theater folks. I teach theater. Let me tell you, healthy people don't confuse pretend and real.

BTW, my avatar is a holy paladin. She is full of goodness and light and her only desire is to do right and convert evil.
She does spend most of her time healing her husband who is vanquishing the badguys. He takes a beating sometimes.

My concern about computer games isn't about being drawn into witchcraft but sitting at the computer too long and neglecting other activities.



hymnHIM -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/27/2008 8:59:54 AM)

Deb,
Think, why are you even asking this question. Did you watch it and realize something is wrong with this? Is God trying to tell you something? What prompting would be nessisary for God to tell us something? This is another example of neutralism, where Christians are either unable to distinguish truth from error, or they simply rationalize it, saying, well, its not that bad, I am a strong Christian, I can handle it. This is unbiblical. We are to abstain from evil, even the appearances of evil. Deb, Watch this thread, more than likely it will degenerate into posters talking about their favorite games or moves. Given the addictive nature of this media, it is really not a surprise, though.
Be careful, Deb, everything has an effect, either to Gods glory or otherwise. God bless you,
Dan

"Discernment demands that we should hold biblical convictions with the most fervent tenacity" John MacArthur



car2ner -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/27/2008 9:04:21 AM)

quote:

Watch this thread, more than likely it will degenerate into posters talking about their favorite games or moves.


I have to agree that this might happen. I would like to see an honest debate about this thought instead. This is a common concern that many people have.



IonMoon -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/27/2008 11:02:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: car2ner
My concern about computer games isn't about being drawn into witchcraft but sitting at the computer too long and neglecting other activities.


I completely agree here. It isn't the element of fantasy and/or witchcraft that is a problem. The magic in these games is no more dangerous than the magic in a CS Lewis or Tolkein book. However, there is a growing number of people who are becoming addicted to them. There are even websites with 12-step programs, WoW widows, etc.

And I agree, for a healthy, well-adjusted adult, not really a concern. But with a child, it may be necessary to set limits if too much game play becomes a problem.

IMO there is something to electronic stuff (and MMORPG's in particular) that stimulates the brain in much the same way a drug does, and can lead to addiction in certain people.

There are people out there who have lost jobs, families, etc. over these games. So, yes, they can be a problem.

As for people becoming entrenched in the occult because of these games- that would be a very small majority with underlying problems with psychosis and if they don't play these games, they will just become obsessed with something else (Biblical/religious delusions are quite common). Whatever they are exposed to is going to become muddled.

A normal person is not going to lose their sense of reality over these games, but they may use fantasy as an escape from reality (two totally different things!).

Tara P



Ps103 -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/27/2008 9:41:14 PM)

quote:

I am and have been an actress. I know theater folks. I teach theater. Let me tell you, healthy people don't confuse pretend and real.


I did theatre for 27 years, and I agree with the last part.

But I am not sure, really, how theatre relates to RPGs--although I have never been involved in RPGs myself.

Theatre is very structured, when you think about it. You have no control over much of anything--what you say, or the outcome of the show--that is laid out for you already. You reinact the same thing over and over, until the show closes and you ask "Who am I this time?"[:D]

That is not how I understand RPGs to operate, although I am willing to admit that I may be mistaken in that.



c_h_b -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/27/2008 10:49:36 PM)

Long before World of Warcraft there were "Chronicles of Narnia" and "Lord of the Rings". Magic, talking animals, witches, wizards, elves, orcs demons et al.

C.S. Lewis is considered by well-adjusted Christians to be a master of allegorical fiction and apologist. ("Mere Christianity"). C.S. Lewis came to faith in Christ through the conversations he had with his friend J.R.R. Tolkien.

Then again, you can find people who accuse Lewis of being a wolf in sheep's clothing because he wrote "Chronicles of Narnia"....makes you wonder who is well adjusted.

There are Christian guilds in World of Warcraft and other MMORPGs. So, is the game an opportunity to be a witness for Christ in the midst of a social environment that most Christians will never enter? Or is it...SATAN???[8D]



1love1God1way -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/27/2008 11:08:17 PM)

Yeah...I once read Bridge to Terabithia, and immediately signed up for the afterschool wican club. You know what that fantasy stuff can do to you.



c_h_b -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/27/2008 11:14:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

Yeah...I once read Bridge to Terabithia, and immediately signed up for the afterschool wican club. You know what that fantasy stuff can do to you.


[:D] You know, that brings to mind an interesting point. My parents raised me so that when I read Lord of the Rings (and other fantasy novels) I wanted to be the good guy. Let me follow in the footsteps of Aragorn or brave Frodo. Is the preoccupation many people have with the "dark side" of fantasy books and games the genre's fault? Or could it be the fault of those who have the responsibility for those people's moral education?



car2ner -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/28/2008 6:23:13 AM)

Part of the MMORPG's addiction isn't so much the electronics but the social aspect. I enjoy playing because it is something active to do with family members, in the same room or in a differant state. What I give up is television time. So when someone asks me about American Idol, my first thought is, "that's still on the air?".

And then sometimes I spend too much time here on these threads when I should be getting ready for work.[;)]

I will admit, that before I played I was concerned about the level of occult. That is because it is what sells to the curious, like teasers for a movie, IMHO.



turtleman -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/28/2008 10:03:47 PM)

While the game itself is fantasy there are dangers in it. If I wanted to get people to accept harmful or dangerous ideas one way to do it would be to make them seem harmless and even fun. In some cases they even be made to seem to be healthy and good for you . The best way to see if something is okay is to ask this question. Would I do this with Jesus? If the answer is no then leave it alone.



car2ner -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 5:43:13 AM)

quote:

The best way to see if something is okay is to ask this question. Would I do this with Jesus? If the answer is no then leave it alone.


That is a very good way to test every activity. The problem lies in the differant ideas we have about WWJD.



car2ner -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 5:45:56 AM)

quote:

But I am not sure, really, how theatre relates to RPGs-


I don't either. Some theater folk enjoy playing. Some geeks enjoy playing. Where I see theater folks slipping out of reality is when they get a big head, the I'm-a-star-syndrome.

So much for christian humilty.



earthless -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 9:12:16 AM)

As someone who plays World of Warcraft (as does my wife) I can say the guy's description is off and more of the Ned Flanders type alarm bell sounding that gives Christians a bad name.

car2ner's posts in this thread have been spot on.

What I do find funny and yet sad is how I remember friends whose parents were really strict with what they could do, view, play, etc... while growing up. They put them in private schools, did all they could to shelter them from "evil" things and yet they're the ones that ended up pregnant after high school, on drugs, in jail, etc..

We were raised in a Christian home but one that did not place legalistic and "morality" type rules on us. But instead taught us right from wrong, how every decision (be it good or bad) has consequences, and how to choose what is best for us.

I went to one of the worst public high schools in Chicago (6,500 + students with a drop-out rate of 75% plus) and both my sister and I have turned out to be adults I can myself say any parent can be proud of.

Let him play World of Warcraft and don't be one of those parents that out of your love for your child you end up harming him in the long run.



earthless -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 9:14:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtleman

Would I do this with Jesus? If the answer is no then leave it alone.


I would definitely do a 10 man raid in Blackfathom Deep with Jesus. And I would play all my XBOX 360 and PS3 games with Him as well. I don't get why some people view Jesus as Ned Flanders.



stampinlady -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 9:26:39 AM)

quote:

Let him play World of Warcraft and don't be one of those parents that out of your love for your child you end up harming him in the long run.


We're debating whether or not to keep paying for the subscription!! I'm not a "devil behind every door" type of person, but I do have concerns about some games. Thanks for your opinions. I just read that article and wondered.



earthless -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 9:30:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

Let him play World of Warcraft and don't be one of those parents that out of your love for your child you end up harming him in the long run.


We're debating whether or not to keep paying for the subscription!! I'm not a "devil behind every door" type of person, but I do have concerns about some games. Thanks for your opinions. I just read that article and wondered.


13's a good age for him to be involved in it (at home) rather than trying to run the streets, with gangs, or doing dangerous things with kids who are no good.

Yea, the subscription thing can be an issue (we pay for two, and have been playing World of Warcraft since November 2004).

Him liking PC games, video games in general is a really good thing. He may pursue a career in IT (Information Technologies) and it can help you two (parents) keep him at home instead of something else.

If it's any (considering I am a nut) consolation for you.. I have been playing video games since the age of 4.



stampinlady -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 10:01:05 AM)

quote:

If it's any (considering I am a nut) consolation for you.. I have been playing video games since the age of 4.


So have our kids!!! Dh is an IT guy and we've always had video and computer games in our home. Ds started beating games at an early age. Dd, at 14 has already taught herself alot.



earthless -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 10:23:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

If it's any (considering I am a nut) consolation for you.. I have been playing video games since the age of 4.


So have our kids!!! Dh is an IT guy and we've always had video and computer games in our home. Ds started beating games at an early age. Dd, at 14 has already taught herself alot.


Very cool! A family of geeks - just like my wife and I and our "any day now" soon to be born son. [:D]



Restored_Heart -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 10:44:29 AM)

You know... this could be a good opportunity for game-playing son (since it has a paid subscription) to learn responsibility by doing chores and showing proper behavior to receive paid game time.... You can switch the subscription to paying by game card (like you would purchase at game stop or the like) and that way, son can do things to earn "his" game time.

Just a thought....

We are a family of WoW'ers... (2 adults and 4 kids on it) and we share 2 accounts....



nealmorsefan -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 10:49:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless
I would definitely do a 10 man raid in Blackfathom Deep with Jesus.


You would do a 10-man BFD raid? LOL I solod that place with my level 28 orc hunter! Now a 10-man UBRS raid or a 10-man Kara raid, ok.



stampinlady -> RE: High Tech Witchcraft? (1/29/2008 12:25:03 PM)

quote:

learn responsibility by doing chores


Lol, he played another RP game and actually used his math skills to figure out how certain things. I can't remember the name of it and he really liked it.

Earthless, yes dd is very proud of her geekiness! She wows her friends with some of her editing skills. I told her she should have put together a class zine, but she was worried that her teachers wouldn't approve. She attends a conservative christian school. She's attending a public high school in the fall and has already picked a few computer classes.



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