RE: America In Prophecy

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Biblefreak -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/21/2008 3:49:03 PM)
A world wide food shartage is being reported. http://www2.nysun.com/article/74994

Sinner-Saint -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/21/2008 5:10:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cephyr13 If we're Babylon, please reconcile how we're "clothed in red and purple," how we are "drunk with the blood of the saints," and how we are "a city on seven hills." If you cannot reconcile those things, then you simply just get off on calling America evil, and that's really not appreciated here where we enjoy our country and freedom very much. Again, if you don't like it here, why don't you leave? Without getting into the racial component here, I think Traceydolls has a valid point: America is not all sweetness and light. It is our own perception of America as good which is shading our view of her role in the world. America has liberate many nations, but at the same time we have inbued them with the same anti-God, worldly-materialistic Capitalistic system which grinds people up and spits them out as unnecessary expense. In the aftermath of the 9-11 WTC destruction, crews worked day and night to recover what they could until one day in November when they finally got to the mother-load - a finance company's gold and silver reserves. When they found that, armored trucks lined the whole block removing the gold and silver. The next day, Mayor Giuliani ceased the round-the-clock recovery effort. The day after that, Firemen confronted Police officers in front of City Hall - two groups of people who had until then been united in paying an extraordinarily high price in the collapse the towers. It was all over money - people didn't matter. In Iraq, G.W. Bush has acted more like the ancient Romans, attacking a foe before they could mount an attack against us. We have effectively colonized Iraq. While this is part of the War on Terror, I think this is final conflict between civilizations which will define the end-times: North (America, Russia & the EU) versus South (North Africa - Middle East - Southeast Asia) as the Roman world of the First World takes on Islam of the Third World. The second World of Communism is now relegated solely to China, which has itself been conquered by Capitalism (the first Horseman) which didn't fire a shot (no arrows in its quiver, only a bow to project its spiritual power). China enters in the end as the King of the East. It is aligning itself slowly with Islam so as to gain dominance over the West, or complete Roman world which is the first three beasts of Daniel 7 in my opinion. The Harlot is a different aspect to the end-times. It does not have to do anything with America. I think it has more to do with the illegitimate mother-son worship system which has been going on since the time of Babylon, King Nimrod, and his wife, the Queen of Heaven, Semiramis - who served as an example for Ishtar in their mythology. Now the four beasts of Daniel 7 have correlations to the four parts of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar's dream - but they are not one and the same. In that light, America is like Babylon. We have our pride issue as well. We are not all high and mighty as we think - God is still greater and He will pull down the proud. Have you seen the bumper sticker which was fashionable after 9-11? The Power of Pride? It is set on a background of red, white, and blue bunting. I tell you what the power of pride is: death. Pride kills. And America is like Babylon in that regard, but more importantly, America is exactly like the old Roman Empire: heck, we even fashioned our government after Rome; our transportation system is Roman, our economic system is Roman, and the politicians amuse the people with bread and circuses. So don't get so high and mighty about America; you might be destined for a fall yourself if you do.

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/25/2008 5:06:49 PM)
quote: Tracy.. You’re pretty close to Canada; maybe you should move while you still can…you know “get out of Dodge”. No one should continue to be locked into a system that they apparently don’t like. Bob Often thought it, I like the teaching of a Church that moved from Calif. to Canada becasue they know US is Babylon. But after being there a few years they moved to Germany. Only problem I have with Canada: Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. I am a Minnesotan, I'm not trying to go to worse winters. I've had enough of them anyways.

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/25/2008 6:02:13 PM)
quote: If we've been judged, then what's your problem with us? lol If you don't like it here, why do you live in America? Wait in Africa till America decides to pay you. :) Why would I do that.?Jeremiah says Babylon will NOT be healed. I don't expect any money from America. I have a comfortable income. I can pay my own way, over there though, in like Tanzania, $100 is $130,000 in their money. quote: "Most of the other black Americas actually WANT to live here and enjoy it here because they have freedom here and can make a life for themselves. Hw do you know this? Where's your stats? 35 million Black americans here, I would be interested to see what you got that says most black americans love it here, where is the survey that says that! Here's a all white Church that has moved out of Babylon from Calif. to Canada. http://www.antipasministries.com/ It has to do with the truth, not color. quote: If you are sitting here waiting for a hand out, you may as well forget it, because there's no way our government is going to just decide to pay black Americans. Not waiting for a handout, where do you get that twisted view? Where did I ever say I'm waiting on a handout. I KNOW our gov't is jacked up and won't pay reparations, don't you? quote: Everyone else in the country would be in an uproar. Europeans Americans you mean? I just don't think Mexican, Vietnamese or Native Americans would really care. Natives are owed for sure. Where were all these Americans in an uproar when we paid Japanese Repartations in the 90's? quote: It was the Egyptian's choice to pay the Israelites to leave. And since we like black Americans in this country, we have no need to pay them to leave. Your right, it's not in the Americans to follow the example of the Bible. I don't expect it to be. quote: If we're Babylon, please reconcile how we're "clothed in red and purple," how we are "drunk with the blood of the saints," and how we are "a city on seven hills." If you cannot reconcile those things, then you simply just get off on calling America evil, and that's really not appreciated here where we enjoy our country and freedom very much. Oh, you know the Bible and the exact meaning of every Word? WOW. I like telling the truth, America is Babylon. I have freedom of speech, right. I am a american that lives in america Just like you. quote: Again, if you don't like it here, why don't you leave? Seems like you'd be much happier somewhere else if you're so upset with America and unhappy here. And according to you, it appears you think we'll be judged again possibly, so I agree with Bob, here. You should probably get out while you have time. Besides, if you REALLY believed we were going to be judged, why would you still be here? In Revelation, God talks to "His people" in Mystery Babylon and says, "Come out of her my people so you do not take part in her plagues (paraphrased)." So, are you not leaving because you're not one of His people, or are you not leaving in order to be disobediant to the Lord? Just curious. :) I been left the"spiritual" Babylon. Praying to the Lord everyday for a way out of the Physical Babylon. But what country could I go to that America or her allies doesnt have her paws on? Hmmm....... Yu can never look at an African American book, know no history, just read about how America treated the Native Americans. I don't think it is the color my skin that makes me uncomfortable here. Today it's because I had to watch more killing in Babylon, Iraq, While we are stealing their oil, I still have to pay almost $4 for gas. I also have to keep looking at starving babies every 4 commercials, the CCF asking for 27 cents a day to feed them while the next commercial tells me that JLo paid 1500 for her shoes that match her 10,000 dress. It could also be all the fake preachers telling us to send money so we could be saved. It could be that abortions are still happening, gays are getting married legally!, sexual perverts are running allover including running Churches. IT could be alot of things, too numerous to list. I'm pretty sure it's not my color

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/25/2008 6:21:23 PM)
quote: In the aftermath of the 9-11 WTC destruction, crews worked day and night to recover what they could until one day in November when they finally got to the mother-load - a finance company's gold and silver reserves. When they found that, armored trucks lined the whole block removing the gold and silver. 9-11 Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come

Bettawrekonize -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/25/2008 11:46:33 PM)
I think Daniel 8 mentions America LINK Start with Post 74 [Link edited by mod to make it usable by all portals]

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 12:01:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls I like telling the truth, America is Babylon. quote above taken from post 129 Well then please quit side stepping the question and tell us how this verse fits America: Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Can you find "the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" in America? If so where? Wwhere do you find the blood of Cain (killed by his brother Abale) or Stephen (who was martyred in the first century) in America? {edit to correct link to post quote was taken from}

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 12:37:15 PM)
quote: Well then please quit side stepping the question and tell us how this verse fits America: When can you tell me that you did not see those towers fall, those mechants and traders of the Babylon. I will answer your question and I have an answer but I'm waiting for you to tell me how that verse doesnt fit America.

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 3:20:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: ORIGINAL: Midwest quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls I like telling the truth, America is Babylon. quote above taken from post 129 Well then please quit side stepping the question and tell us how this verse fits America: Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Can you find "the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" in America? If so where? Wwhere do you find the blood of Cain (killed by his brother Abale) or Stephen (who was martyred in the first century) in America? {edit to correct link to post quote was taken from} When can you tell me that you did not see those towers fall, those mechants and traders of the Babylon. I will answer your question and I have an answer but I'm waiting for you to tell me how that verse doesnt fit America. For starters I never said the twin towers did not fall nor will I, but it takes a lot more then two towers falling in order to justify saying America is Babylon. We can not ignore the rest of the prophetic verses about Babylon that do not fit America. You made the statement America is Babylon so the burden of proof lies on you. In order to prove America is Babylon you must be able to demonstrate how America fits ALL the prophetic verses about Babylon not just the ones that seem to fit your doctrine. So please tell me how can you (or any one else) find "the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" in America? Where or how do you find the blood of Cain (killed by his brother Able) or Stephen's (who was martyred in the first century) blood in America? JMHO but until you can demonstrate how Rev18:24 applies to America, there is no Scripturally sound reason to believe America is Babylon. Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Biblefreak -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 4:11:05 PM)
Again I say that with the economy teatering on the brink and the Troops worn down from the war. I think the U.S. will be hit unpside down and left and right with a series of huge attacks each bigger than the last and all of them bigger than 9/11. I pray I'm wrong. But, I've got a very sinking feeling.

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 4:48:47 PM)
quote: So please tell me how can you (or any one else) find "the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" in America? Where or how do you find the blood of Cain (killed by his brother Able) or Stephen's (who was martyred in the first century) blood in America? JMHO but until you can demonstrate how Rev18:24 applies to America, there is no Scripturally sound reason to believe America is Babylon. Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Ok maybe I will go another way, I see this ain't working,WHO killed Cain and Stephen, where are their decendents?

Cephyr13 -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 5:10:40 PM)
Revelation 18:3-4 3"For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her (Babylon's) immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her (Babylon's), and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality." 4I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her (Babylon), My people, so that you will not participate in her (Babylon's) sins and receive of her (Babylon's) plagues; So, how can one who believes America is Babylon go directly against God's command to "come out of her (Babylon) My people"?

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 5:18:46 PM)
Revelation 18:3-4 quote: So, how can one who believes America is Babylon go directly against God's command to "come out of her (Babylon) My people"? How do you know I'm going directly against it. How do you know where my passports are. How do you even know I'm not in Canada right now?

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 8:51:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Original So please tell me how can you (or any one else) find "the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" in America? Where or how do you find the blood of Cain (killed by his brother Able) or Stephen's (who was martyred in the first century) blood in America? JMHO but until you can demonstrate how Rev18:24 applies to America, there is no Scripturally sound reason to believe America is Babylon. Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Ok maybe I will go another way,I see this ain't working, Neither will trying to blame their descendents. quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls WHO killed Cain and Stephen, where are their decendents? What difference does it make where their descendents are? Their descendents did not have anything to do with what their ancestors did, any more then you or I are responsible for what some ancestor of ours did 2000+ years ago. But even if you could blame it on their descendents, that still would not explain how the blood of those who are still being murdered on a daily basis throughout the rest of the world can be found in America. What about the blood of all those who were murdered abroad in the last 24 hours, how is there blood found in America? don't they fall into the category "of all that were slain upon the earth"? quoting tracydolls from post 129 quote: Original: tracydolls I have freedom of speech, right. I am a american that lives in america Just like you. quoting tracydolls from POST 138 quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls How do you know where my passports are. How do you even know I'm not in Canada right now? Three days ago you said you lived in America, are you implying that you have moved to Canada in the last three days? Assuming you have a passport (and the question wasn't just hypothetical) If you are an American as you said then wouldn't you have an American passport?

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 9:58:52 PM)
quote: Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Ok let's try this another way, what country would fulfill this verse? Who do you think America is?

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 10:10:26 PM)
quote: quoting tracydolls from post 129 quote: Original: tracydolls I have freedom of speech, right. I am a american that lives in america Just like you. quoting tracydolls from POST 138 quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls How do you know where my passports are. How do you even know I'm not in Canada right now? Three days ago you said you lived in America, are you implying that you have moved to Canada in the last three days? Assuming you have a passport (and the question wasn't just hypothetical) If you are an American as you said then wouldn't you have an American passport? It is a 5 hr drive, and don't have to show a passport to cross, i could be back in Us now on my laptop. Let's get off this, Where is America in Prophecy?

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 11:17:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Ok let's try this another way, what country would fulfill this verse? There has never been nor will there be a single country that fulfills all the prophetic verses about Babylon. Babylon can not be limited to a single country, nor can it be can be constrained by time. Twist it anyway you want, America may be a part of Babylon but America is not big enough, bad enough or old enough to be Babylon. quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls Who do you think America is? Just one of many countries trying to survive in todays world sometimes doing the right thing and sometimes the wrong just like most of the other countries in todays world. quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: quoting tracydolls from post 129 quote: Original: tracydolls I have freedom of speech, right. I am a american that lives in america Just like you. quoting tracydolls from POST 138 quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls How do you know where my passports are. How do you even know I'm not in Canada right now? Three days ago you said you lived in America, are you implying that you have moved to Canada in the last three days? Assuming you have a passport (and the question wasn't just hypothetical) If you are an American as you said then wouldn't you have an American passport? It is a 5 hr drive, and don't have to show a passport to cross, i could be back in Us now on my laptop. Let's get off this, OK I was just curious about the statements you made it appeared that you may have been implying you had moved to Canada, I was just looking for clarification to see if i was understanding you correctly. quote: Where is America in Prophecy? According to you it's Babylon but so far I haven't seen where you have demonstrated a Scripturallly sound hermeneutic study that supports that belief, so why should anyone believe it?

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/28/2008 11:55:19 PM)
quote: Where is America in Prophecy? According to you it's Babylon but so far I haven't seen where you have demonstrated a Scripturallly sound hermeneutic study that supports that belief, so why should anyone believe it? Where are we according to you? I would love to be disproved. Maybe you know a verse that would turn it all around? Maybe I am crazy, just show me I'm wrong.

lpzijlstra -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/29/2008 5:54:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Where is America in Prophecy? According to you it's Babylon but so far I haven't seen where you have demonstrated a Scripturallly sound hermeneutic study that supports that belief, so why should anyone believe it? Where are we according to you? I would love to be disproved. Maybe you know a verse that would turn it all around? Maybe I am crazy, just show me I'm wrong. As I tried to prove before: America is not Babylon! In a lot of things you will find Babylon in the USA, but also in Europe, China etc. In all the world. Babylon is mankind going their own way, without God. Being their own god. "Let us build into heaven!" The same as satan said. Revelation 18 is writing about this kind of Babylon mixed with Christianity. And again you will find it in all countries and in all times. But specific verses show us what is meant. It is the false church! It is not a specific country! That is why John is astonished! The would be bride of Christ is behaving like a WHORE. Dealing with all countries in the world. Buying the soles of the people. It is not the Bride of Christ, but the church as a system controlling a lot of trade and being very wealthy. See my website about it: www.revealingthefuture.com America is the super power that is protecting the small state of Israel. See: Jonah and the wonderous tree. Is America then that perfect country, the chosen country of the Lord? Are they without sin? Are they without any doubt to be loved? Not at all. They make a lot of mistakes, also with Israel. But America is the super power the Lord uses in His own way. Like the countries in the Bible: Babylon, Persia/Media, Rome. Were these countries "Godly "??? Not at all. But they fulfilled a purpose of the Lord in the live of Israel and the total world. So what is America? Just a tool in the hand of the Lord. No more then that. But it is also a tool as long as the Lord pleases and needs it. The use of such a tool is only for a certain time! A car is a kind of tool. You don't use it to kiss your wife or to go to bed. (except when you own a house that is toooooo big) In tribulation time Israel MUST be on its own to be cleansed and await their Messiah. To see on the One they pierced. And mourn! In that time there is no more use of the protecting tree, America as a tool of the Lord is not of any use anymore in that time. Hopefully clear???

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/29/2008 8:11:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Where is America in Prophecy? According to you it's Babylon but so far I haven't seen where you have demonstrated a Scripturallly sound hermeneutic study that supports that belief, so why should anyone believe it? Where are we according to you? Not sure about you, (America, Minnesota or Canada which is it? I guess it depends on which of your posts one reads) but I am in the middle of the USA not Babylon. quote: I would love to be disproved. You already have but it appears you are having trouble accepting it. quote: Maybe you know a verse that would turn it all around? Maybe I am crazy, just show me I'm wrong. Just because we have a difference of opinion does not make you or I crazy. As for as showing where you are wrong, once again Rev18:24 proves America can not be Babylon. You can not find the blood of all that were slain in America, therefore America can not be Babylon. If you are going to say America is Babylon then you must be able to show where all the verses about Babylon fit America. No matter how hard you try there is no way around Rev18:24 If the blood of all that were slain can be found in Babylon, then Babylon can not be constrained by time or location which effectively rules out America. Nothing difficult about ruling out America, but if you want to believe America is Babylon then that is certainly your choice.

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/29/2008 9:06:11 AM)
quote: America is the super power that is protecting the small state of Israel. Are we the only country that helps Israel, don't other countries help?

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/29/2008 9:09:30 AM)
quote: Not sure about you, (America, Minnesota or Canada which is it? I guess it depends on which of your posts one reads) but I am in the middle of the USA not Babylon. ok I'm in the northern border waiting for something to pop off, so I can run....... I was gonna run towards Mexico, thenI found out the gov't has taken the verichip already. then what country does fill the verse of that?

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/29/2008 10:08:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Not sure about you, (America, Minnesota or Canada which is it? I guess it depends on which of your posts one reads) but I am in the middle of the USA not Babylon. ok I'm in the northern border waiting for something to pop off, so I can run.......I was gonna run towards Mexico, While I am of the opinion that things could get very ugly in the near future(not just for us but the whole world), I don't believe running will help much as I believe any major problems will be worldwide (like food shortages, persecution etc...) quote: thenI found out the gov't has taken the verichip already. then what country does fill the verse of that? None that I know of, where does the Bible say anything about verichip. Surely you are not suggesting the verichip is the mark of the beast. Anything is possible but I really don't see anything in Scripture that would suggest the verichip is the mark of the beast. JMHO in order to understand the mark given by the leopard bear and lion beast we must first understand other marks given in the Bible.. In 606BC, when the kingdom of Judah was about to fall, the prophet Ezekiel saw spiritual marks in a vision. He watched when an archangel said; (from Eze9:4&6) ..."Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereo...Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house." Later Ezra wrote about the same event but he does not see the mark. 2Ch 36:17 Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand. Notice Ezekiel had a vision he saw the event in the spiritual world and saw the mark, but Ezra who was a historian recorded the events that occurred in the physical world and makes no mention of the mark. Surely a historian would have recorded such a mark. Aren't all Christians marked (sealed) by the Holy Spirit? (see 2Cor1:22, Eph1:13,Eph4:30) But when you or I look in the mirror we don't see that seal (mark) because it is spiritual not physical. Understanding that the marks are spiritual is the key to understanding the mark given by the beast. Since the mark of God is only visible in the Spiritual world then it is only reasonable that satans mark given to those who worship the beast would ony be seen in the spiritual world. Remember figurative (or allegorical if you prefer) language demands a figurative interpretation, not a literal interpretation.

lpzijlstra -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/29/2008 10:11:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: America is the super power that is protecting the small state of Israel. Are we the only country that helps Israel, don't other countries help? Yes they do: mainly in the wrong way! But America is the world power, others like the EU are not (YET) The verichip?? Well my dog has one! And I live in the Netherlands. Many countries use it already. May be not under the skin yet, but in a variaty of ways. Even in your food being transported worldwide. Just to keep an eye on what happens to it. Temp readings, contamination etc. But my dear why are you so afraid of all these things that have to happen? See it as christian : as a big challenge. You are reborn? Jesus is your Savior? Well then you are in company of the mightiest Person there is in heaven and earth. You need no more. Have faith in Him! Amen.

lpzijlstra -> RE: America In Prophecy (4/29/2008 10:19:19 AM)
The verichip might be used as the mark of the beast. That chip or something like it. But only after 3 1/2 years of reighn of the AC it is implemented worldwide as the mark. While we christians are gone before the AC reveals himself in public. ( 1 thess 4:10) there is no need to be afraid of getting the mark for christians. After rapture and all the troubles ahead, this mark will be used to distribute food, but also to worship (+ obey) the AC. The people coming to the Lord in repentence in that time shall not take this mark. They will be beheaded by the army of the AC, but will rest with the Lord and don't have to be in all the rest of tribulation. A time so bad as never has been before. So to be killed by the AC is also grace of the Lord.

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