RE: America In Prophecy

RE: America In Prophecy (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Theology] >> Prophecy & End Times

Message

Sinner-Saint -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/6/2008 8:15:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bob97 For the life of me I can’t understand why people work so hard to find ways to destroy this Nation. I guess it is some kind of a guilt trip and they just feel that this country deserves to suffer. I'm not trying to destroy this nation. I have been a patriot most of my life. In my extended family (my fathers only came to America in the 1870's) I have two ancestors that fought in the Revolutionary War. My oldest ancestor in my extended family arrived with the Swedes in what is now Delaware before the Pilgrims landed in Plymouth. However, I am also a student of history. The winged lion is not Babylon. It is like Babylon though. I think the winged lion properly is England. When you read the first person accounts of the colonists, our founders, you cannot help but get the real sense that they felt wounded. Indeed, they had no power as English citizens - which up until the 1770's they thought they were even though they were in the New Land. This is perfectly described by God as the lion without wings - these good Englishmen had lost the power of their country and had been reduced to foreign status. When these rag-tag bunch were able to usurp this nation from under the thumb of the most powerful nation of the world and write two of the greatest documents - by man - they literally in a spiritual sense had stood up on two legs. America is the only nation which has made human rights a central part of their foreign policy. America is a force in this world for human secularism - like it or not. America restores the nations it beats in war. America even now acts like Rome in attacking nations which threaten it (Iraq, Afghanistan). America has been given a heart of man. This nation has turned from Christianity. We are more materialistic than anything else! Remember: you cannot serve God and Mammon. I'm sure you have run into Political Correctness and how it has set itself against Christians. America is not Israel. While God has blessed this land, He also tears down the proud - and America is a very proud nation. We should be wary of wrapping ourselves in the red, white and blue and stand behind a bird of prey. Instead we should wash ourselves in the blood of Jesus. We are not of this world.

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/6/2008 8:21:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls Every kingdom in the world destroyed From Egypt , Romans, Greeks, Europe, etc. but America gets off with her 200+ years of slavery, killing of the Natives, the commerce, hoarding all the money, etc. Get your facts straight Slavery was abolished in this country less then 100 years after this nation became a country. Was this country still killing native Americans in 1976? Don't think so. Wow I guess you consider it hoarding all the money when we have given billions in aid to multiple other countries. Quit kidding yourself and get real. quote: Stop fooling yourselves is about all I can say now. Staright up no chase. Who's fooling themselves (hint look in a mirror) quote: Pssss... Cephyr thank you! I had to learn it for sure. Apparently you still haven't learned. quote: Here's the answer to Rev. 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. you have got to follow the word Babylon, right. Look at the words associated when you punch in Babylon: Pridekingshaughtycommerenceslavesrebelliontradersmammonfalsegodsharlotuncleandevilsfoulspirithatefulcaptive. Pretty much covers ALL THE SAINTS, the reasons they were slain. What ?else could be listed that describes Babylon. . Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; Jesus turned down the kingdoms, US did'nt. Who is the king of the children of pride? Satan. Pride made Adam and Eve eat from the Tree, pride made Cain kill Abel, etc. America is Babylon. We have the spirit of Babylon which is pride/Satan. Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Satan all abominations, killer of all saints, the spirit of Babylon, controller of kingdoms, prideful enemy. < Message edited by tracydolls -- 5/6/2008 4:43:29 AM > LOL I see you are still using guesswork theology to justify calling America Babylon. Nothing in any of your statements shows how Rev18:24 has been fulfilled by America. Rev. 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Show me how America has the blood of Cain or Stephen who was stoned in the first century or how America has the blood of all those slain by the muslims in her then maybe we have something to talk about until then all I see is a Scripturally bankrupt theory based on guesswork theology. Babylon can not be limited to a single city, continent, or religion, nor can it be can be constrained by time. America may be a part of Babylon but not Babylon in its entirety.JMHO, I believe that Babylon, then, represents the often murderous, material greed driven nature of mankind, personal and government etc., trapped by the things of this world, Satan's stuff, to the person's personal condemnation, throughout the entire history of mankind. (it has to be the entire history of mankind or you will only find part of the blood of all that were slain, not the blood of all)

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/6/2008 12:47:36 PM)
quote: Get your facts straight Slavery was abolished in this country less then 100 years after this nation became a country. Was this country still killing native Americans in 1976? Don't think so. Wow I guess you consider it hoarding all the money when we have given billions in aid to multiple other countries. Quit kidding yourself and get real. We have had this debate before. Slavery started in 1620 when 20 Africans were on a Duth man of war, we kept them as slaves. So all the laws before 1776 concerning slavery were what? how come nobody told the slaves before 1776, they could go home. this is not even an intense study of it. Just slaves in search engine. About.com From the 1670s the Slave Coast (Bight of Benin) underwent a rapid expansion of trade in slaves which continued until the end of the slave trade in the nineteenth century. Height of Atlantic SlaveTrade: Between the years 1650 and 1850, historians estimate that at least 28 million Africans were forcibly removed from central and western Africa as slaves... No, we did'nt kill any Natives I know of in 1976. But we did kill how many before then? so based on your logic of we were not a country before 1776, we do NOT have to consider those that were in slavery before then. From my own families records, I have their writing(slavemaster) before 1776. they came to NC in 1670. Had slaves, the first english mans will He left his slaves to his children and then was killed by Native several years later. this is simple history. I'm sorry that it is this way, but we must look at Us honestly to ever repent. quote: Show me how America has the blood of Cain or Stephen who was stoned in the first century or how America has the blood of all those slain by the muslims in her then maybe we have something to talk about until then all I see is a Scripturally bankrupt theory based on guesswork theology. Satan, killer of all saints. Pride quote: Babylon can not be limited to a single city, continent, or religion, nor can it be can be constrained by time. America may be a part of Babylon but not Babylon in its entirety.JMHO, I believe that Babylon, then, represents the often murderous, material greed driven nature of mankind, personal and government etc., trapped by the things of this world, Satan's stuff, to the person's personal condemnation, throughout the entire history of mankind. (it has to be the entire history of mankind or you will only find part of the blood of all that were slain, not the blood of all) america is trapped by the things of this world. No not one place, a long line of kingdoms(which are Satans) that hve cuminated into America. She has them all in her. A melting pot of demons. Satan, prideful ,arrogant, haughty. America.

bob97 -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/6/2008 1:55:55 PM)
quote: America is the only nation which has made human rights a central part of their foreign policy. America is a force in this world for human secularism - like it or not. Come on Saint...look at Europe, it is the center of secularism and human rights. Look at the UN...what do they stand for? Who opposes them...the USA. Bob

bob97 -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/6/2008 2:07:06 PM)
Slavery in the United States was a product of England and in fact the English Court system which said it was legal for a person to own another person. in 1651 the English Court was ask to rule on the legality and in 1654, the decision was rendered, and the court ruled that “seriously consideringe and maturely weighing the premisses, doe fynde that the saide Mr. Robert Parker most unjustly keepeth the said Negro from Anthony Johnson his master....It is therefore the Judgement of the Court and ordered That the said John Casor Negro forthwith returne unto the service of the said master Anthony Johnson, And that mr. Robert Parker make payment of all charges in the suit.”. We blame the United States for slavery when in fact it is only something we inherited England brought slavery to the New World; it just took us 200 years to do away with it. Actually it was only 100 years because we didn't become a nation until 1776 I believe. Bob

eschatologist -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/6/2008 8:28:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano Forgive me if there's already another thread on this and feel free to move it if there is. I've heard many folks talk about America's role in prophecy. Ronald Weinland, for examples, states that America's demise will start in 08, our dollar will be worth nothing by April 08 (which might actually be true based on the current economic state), and that by the end of 08 the US will be history. How does anyone make that sort of jump from cryptic prophecy to making a blatant, supposedly-factual claim about things like that? I'd also like to hear anyone who has any ideas on America's place in prophecy. Thanks. I'm always leery of people trying to put exact dates on things. They're usually never right, because the Lord does not give exact dates for specific things to happen. He gives us lengths of time for different events. For example the Great tribulation is 3 1/2 years long. But He doesn't give us an exact date when the great tribulatuion will start. As far as the demise of the US is concerned, if you take it in a general sense, then this is of course a true prophecy and will happen. Why? because the bible says that all the nations of man will become the nations of our Lord and of His Christ. "The God of Heaven shall set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, niether shall it be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms and it shall stand forever.' (Daniel 2) The demise of all nations and kingdoms of man, including the US, will eventually happen. In Jeremiah it says, "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God." This applies just as much to the wicked nations of today, like the United States, as it did to the wicked nations of the past. So that's what I mean by taking it in a general sense. Since we know that all the nations of the world will eventually be destroyed, especially during the wrath of God on the wicked, after Jesus comes back to rapture and resurrect His own at His second coming, then we know that the US will be one of those nations. We just don't know the exact dates when all this will happen. But Jesus did tell us to watch and pray so that that day does not come upon us unawares.

bob97 -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/6/2008 11:20:50 PM)
I might not agree with all you have said but I would tend to agree that the Antichrist will come from one of the old USSR countries and most probable Russia. I feel the Antichrist will be Japheth in nature and will more than likely form an alliance with the Semitic and Hamitic nations. For the most part all of these nations hate Israel and wish its destruction. I do also agree that there will be conflict between the North and the South and that the USA and it’s allies belong to the armies of the South. Bob

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 12:51:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Get your facts straight Slavery was abolished in this country less then 100 years after this nation became a country. Was this country still killing native Americans in 1976? Don't think so. Wow I guess you consider it hoarding all the money when we have given billions in aid to multiple other countries. Quit kidding yourself and get real. We have had this debate before. But you never provided a sound hermeneutic study based on Scripture that proved your point so far all you have demonstrated is what you assume. quote: Slavery started in 1620 Incorrect slavery started thousands of years ago, but if you want to limit it to the African slave trade then we have to start with the muslims in the seventh century, over one thousand plus years before the US became a nation. Is the Us also responsible for the actions of the muslims who were taking Africans as slave to be used in their harems one thousand years before the US became a nation? Check this out http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2004-4-TheScourgeofSlavery.htm or any of the articles at this google search quote: when 20 Africans were on a Duth man of war, we kept them as slaves. So all the laws before 1776 concerning slavery were what? All mans laws concerning slavery prior to 1776 are irrelevent when it comes to America being Babylon. You can not hold America responsible for the crimes of other countries. Hypothetically speaking based on your line of reasoning every person who ever had a relative that committed a crime would have to go to prison for that relatives crime. quote: how come nobody told the slaves before 1776, they could go home. Probably for the same reason that no one told the Europeans who were the Romans slaves they could go home. Probably for the same reason that the muslims did not let the first African slaves go home. JMHO but their reasons probably had something to do with greed. Whose law were they under it wasn't the US law prior to 1776 ,so there is no justification to hold the US responsible. In your opinion, is the US also responsible for the muslims who started dealing in the African slave trade over 1000years prior to the US becoming a nation? Are we also responsible for the Romans who had European slaves or the Egyptians who held the Jews slaves? Sorry don't think so I see no justification to blame America for the actions of the ancestors of those now living in America. quote: this is not even an intense study of it.[/quotes] Obviously or you would have known that the US was only involved in the last 200 years of a 1200-1400 (depending on the source) year peiod when Africans were made slaves by outsiders. If I am understanding your reasoning correctly would this make the muslims Babylon as they obviously had more to do with African slavery and its origin then the US and more muslim descendants live in the mideast then the US so why aren't they Babylon? Even if it was an intense study all it would prove is that the US was at one time guilty of having and trading in slaves. [quotes] Just slaves in search engine. About.com From the 1670s the Slave Coast (Bight of Benin) underwent a rapid expansion of trade in slaves which continued until the end of the slave trade in the nineteenth century. Height of Atlantic SlaveTrade: Between the years 1650 and 1850, historians estimate that at least 28 million Africans were forcibly removed from central and western Africa as slaves... EDITLet's keep things in theier proper perspective no sense trying to make it look like all 28 million came to the US. Out of the 28million 95% went to central and south America only 5% (approximately 1.4 million) came to the US, but this pales in comparison to 100million plus taken by the muslims over 14 centuries starting in the seventh centuryand ending in some cases as late as the 1960'sEND EDIT. So what there are numerous articles discussing America and slavery, and not a single one of them demonstrate any Scriptural justification to say that America is babylon. quote: No, we did'nt kill any Natives I know of in 1976. But we did kill how many before then? Granted many native Americans were killed by US citizens from the time the US became a nation until about 1900 or so but that isn't 200 years is it? IF my math is correct that is just a little over one hundred not two hundred. But even if the US had totally eliminated every native American it would still have no bearing on whether or not America is Babylon as they would still only be a part of those who were slain upon the earth not all. quote: so based on your logic of we were not a country before 1776, we do NOT have to consider those that were in slavery before then. Those who were slaves prior to 1776 have no bearing on America's guilt. America is not guilty of anything another country has done prior to the US's existence, just as you or I can not be held accountable for an event from 300 years ago involing one of our ancestors. What I am saying is that you can not blame the US for things that occured before the US was in existence. Slavery did occur both here and abroad long before the US became a nation but we can't hold the US responsible for the crimes of the world from day one until the day when the Lord returns. quote: From my own families records, I have their writing(slavemaster) before 1776. they came to NC in 1670. Had slaves, the first english mans will He left his slaves to his children and then was killed by Native several years later. I am sure that from a historical perspective those papers would be fascinating reading, (I find geneaological research and the history that goes with it fascinating) but I don't see how they help your argument that America is Babylon all they prove is that slavery occurred in America and I don't recall anyone here denying that. quote: this is simple history. Sure it's history, slavery was a fact no one is denying that, but slavery (even after 1776) doesn't make the US babylon, it just makes it one of the many nations that at one time or another committed atrocities. quote: I'm sorry that it is this way, but we must look at Us honestly to ever repent. You and I can only repent for what we have done. I can not repent for anyone else and neither can you. Even if every person on the face of the earth today were to repent today it would have no effect on how God will judge those who came before us. quote: quote: Show me how America has the blood of Cain or Stephen who was stoned in the first century or how America has the blood of all those slain by the muslims in her then maybe we have something to talk about until then all I see is a Scripturally bankrupt theory based on guesswork theology. Satan, killer of all saints. Pride Nothing in this statement shows how America has the blood of All who were slain. If as you say satan is the killer of all saints then satan would be Babylon not the US. Are you saying the US is satan? I'd sure be interested in seeing the verse that says this. Is the US also responsible for those who have been killed by corrupt governments, religous persecution racial prejudice, etc... throughout history? quote: quote: Babylon can not be limited to a single city, continent, or religion, nor can it be can be constrained by time. America may be a part of Babylon but not Babylon in its entirety.JMHO, I believe that Babylon, then, represents the often murderous, material greed driven nature of mankind, personal and government etc., trapped by the things of this world, Satan's stuff, to the person's personal condemnation, throughout the entire history of mankind. (it has to be the entire history of mankind or you will only find part of the blood of all that were slain, not the blood of all) america is trapped by the things of this world. No not one place, a long line of kingdoms(which are Satans) that hve cuminated into America. She has them all in her. A melting pot of demons. Satan, prideful ,arrogant, haughty. America. And this proves what? That America (along with the rest of the world) has fallen for satans lies nothing unique to America here nor does it prove America is Babylon. If you are going to hold America responsible for the actions of the ancestors now living in America then by this line of reasoning should we also hold you responsible for the actions of your ancestors? Hypothetically speaking should you be in prison because some long lost relative committed a crime? (Not in my opinion but then I don't hold anyone (individual or country) responsible for their ancestors actions going back well over two hundred years ago.) If not, then why hold the US responsible for the actions of it's ancestors? Also how can you hold the US responsible for all the people killed in the rest of the world in the last 24 hours? Aren't they part of the group "all who were slain upon the earth?" Be blessed and may God bless your studies! As you are led friend as you are led!

Sinner-Saint -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 4:44:03 AM)
quote: America is the only nation which has made human rights a central part of their foreign policy. America is a force in this world for human secularism - like it or not. quote: ORIGINAL: bob97 Come on Saint...look at Europe, it is the center of secularism and human rights. Look at the UN...what do they stand for? Who opposes them...the USA. Europe is not the center of human rights... And while Europe is secular, so is America. Europe is all about the authority to rule; it is the third beast. Face it Bob, America is not Godly.

Sinner-Saint -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 4:46:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bob97 I might not agree with all you have said but I would tend to agree that the Antichrist will come from one of the old USSR countries and most probable Russia. I feel the Antichrist will be Japheth in nature and will more than likely form an alliance with the Semitic and Hamitic nations. For the most part all of these nations hate Israel and wish its destruction. I do also agree that there will be conflict between the North and the South and that the USA and it’s allies belong to the armies of the South. Huh? America belongs to the South? You've got to be kidding me. We are aligned with Europe and are in partnership with Russia.

McFatty -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 5:47:51 AM)
"America" is not a single entity. It is composed of many people with many opinions and of many faiths. One American may believe very differently from another American. It's the same with Europe, though Europe is even more divided into different countries with different languages. You're not playing Risk. A nation is more than the decisions of its leadership.

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 9:35:19 AM)
quote: We blame the United States for slavery when in fact it is only something we inherited so the english men that considered their selves americans that held slaves were what? We can minimize, lie and still it remains slavery existed in America for over 200+ years. quote: Incorrect slavery started thousands of years ago, but if you want to limit it to the African slave trade then we have to start with the muslims in the seventh century, over one thousand plus years before the US became a nation. Is the Us also responsible for the actions of the muslims who were taking Africans as slave to be used in their harems one thousand years before the US became a nation? slavery in the US started in 1620, we can talk about slavery in other times,I have. I say Egypt paid with the 10 plagues, REd SEa, etc.. When did US pay yet? I say Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. No mass exodus here. quote: Granted many native Americans were killed by US citizens from the time the US became a nation until about 1900 or so but that isn't 200 years is it? you want to dishonoer those that died before 1776, like it makes them less dead quote: You and I can only repent for what we have done. I can not repent for anyone else and neither can you. Even if every person on the face of the earth today were to repent today it would have no effect on how God will judge those who came before us. Repentence does NOT help us? Well then the Bible is not true according to that. quote: And this proves what? That America (along with the rest of the world) has fallen for satans lies nothing unique to America here nor does it prove America is Babylon. Satan controls B abylons, we are one. quote: and not a single one of them demonstrate any Scriptural justification to say that America is babylon. Read the Bible, insert America into all Scripture with Babylon in it. you'll see it . If everything we do looks like Babylon, we are in physical Babylon, spitritual Babylon,we had towers go down like it says Babylon We have murder by law, pay your money and kill your baby, we have gays can get married, we have rapists, murders, liars, running all over the country, drugs galore, etc. Every unclean bird. A melting pot of demons. Satan controls all Babylons, why would'nt he control this one? WE ARE BABYLON!

bob97 -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 9:39:27 AM)
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Bob

LBolt -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 10:13:49 AM)
I have to agree with Tracydolls on one point, slavery has been around for a long time and unfortunately this is a blight in our nations history. If America doesn't reverse it's current policy regarding Israel, which basically is the following: To divide Jerusalem and give the Temple Mount to the Muslims. To cede all of Judea and Samaria and establish an Arab terrorist state called Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital. To give the Palestinians control of the mountain ridge overlooking Israel, placing all the large population centers within range of Katusha rockets. To expel hundreds of thousands of Jews from their cities and to destroy their communities. To allow huge numbers of Palestinian refugees into Israel; thus, changing the demographics of the nation. Zechariah 12:3,6,9 "And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it....and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.... And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem." Is it coincidence that everytime we as a country met with Palestian leaders regarding the "peace plan" something catastophic happens in the States? Here's a list I copied from John McTernan quote: "September 1, 1993: President Clinton announces he will meet Arafat and Rabin on September 13 in Washington, DC to begin the Oslo Peace Accords. After nearly a week of meandering in the Atlantic Ocean, Hurricane Emily hits North Carolina on this day. March 2, 1997: Arafat meets with President Clinton in Washington, DC. The same day awesome tornado storms unleash tremendous damage in Arkansas and flooding in Kentucky and Ohio. Arkansas and Kentucky declared disaster areas. January 21, 1998: President Clinton is waiting to meet with Arafat at the White House. At this exact time the President's sex scandal breaks. September 27, 1998: Arafat is meeting with the President in Washington. Hurricane Georges hits Alabama and stalls. The Hurricane stalls until Arafat leaves and then it dissipates. Parts of Alabama declared a disaster area. October 17, 1998: Arafat comes to the Wye Plantation meeting. Incredible rains fall on Texas which causes record flooding. FEMA declares parts of Texas a disaster area. November 23, 1998: Arafat comes to America. He meets with President Clinton who is raising funds for the Palestinian state. On this day the stock market fell 216 points. December 12, 1998: On this day the US House of Representatives votes to impeach President Clinton. At the very time of the impeachment, the President is meeting with Arafat in Gaza over the peace process. March 23, 1999: Arafat meets with Clinton in Washington, DC. Market falls 219 points that day. The next day Clinton orders attack on Serbia. September 3, 1999: Secretary of State Albright meets with Arafat in Israel. Hurricane Dennis comes ashore on this very day after weeks of changing course in the Atlantic Ocean. September 22, 1999: Arafat meets with Clinton in Washington, DC. The day before and after the meeting the market falls more than 200 points each day. This was the first time in history the market lost more than 200 points for two days in a week. The market lost 524 points this week. June 16, 2000: Arafat meets with President Clinton. The market falls 265 points on this day. July 12-26, 2000: Arafat at the Camp David meetings. Powerful droughts throughout the country. Forest fires explode in West into uncontrolled fires. By the end of August, fire burns 7 million acres. November 9, 2000: Arafat meets with President Clinton at the White House to try and salvage the peace process. This was just two days after the presidential election. The nation was just entering into an election crisis which was the worst in over 100 years. November 11, 2001: Arafat speaks at the UN General Assembly and condemns Israel. He later meets with Secretary of State Colin Powell. On this day, Saddam threatens the US with nuclear weapons. Within 24 hours of meeting with Powell, an airplane crashes in NYC killing 265 people. The crash was 15 miles from where Arafat spoke. May 1, 2002: Under pressure from the US, Israel releases siege of Arafat's headquarters. Massive tornado storm in eastern US with F-5 tornado very close to White House." Makes you really wonder[8\|]

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 12:04:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Incorrect slavery started thousands of years ago, but if you want to limit it to the African slave trade then we have to start with the muslims in the seventh century, over one thousand plus years before the US became a nation. Is the Us also responsible for the actions of the muslims who were taking Africans as slave to be used in their harems one thousand years before the US became a nation? slavery in the US started in 1620, we can talk about slavery in other times,I have. Physically impossible The US did not come into existence untill 1776 I can agree that slavery was going on in the British colony that eventually became the US in 1776 but thats not the US nor does it prove the US is Babylon. quote: I say Egypt paid with the 10 plagues, REd SEa, etc.. When did US pay yet? Egypt suffered the plauges for refusing to obey God and release the slaves per God's instructions. Did God send a representative to the president like God sent Moses to Pharaoh? If not then aren't you comparing apples to oranges? I see that you are not saying the same thing about payment here as you said in another thread. Considering you never answered my question there because that thread was merged with this thread please allow me to refresh your memory by quoting your earlier post quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls Just think if America would do as the Bible and "pay" their slaves. Who should pay? Are you suggesting we dig up the graves of those dead slaves so we can put a check in their coffins, if not then who should recieve this payment? If you believe the descendents of the slave owners should pay the descendents of the slaves then please show me where Scripture says we should do this! Should the muslims also make retribution to the descendents of the slaves their ancestors took from Africa between the 7th century and the twentieth century? quote: I say Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. No mass exodus here. Yes Moses did lead his people out of Egypt, because God told him to. Please show me where God told any one to lead the slaves taken from Africa back to Africa. How does any of this prove America is Babylon all it demonstrates is you have an axe to grind with the US. If you feel the US is Babylon, then why not do as God directed and leave what you believe to be Babylon? If I believed America was babylon I can assure I would obey God and come out of her! Thankfully I do not believe babylon is the US so I see no reason to leave. quote: quote: Granted many native Americans were killed by US citizens from the time the US became a nation until about 1900 or so but that isn't 200 years is it? you want to dishonoer those that died before 1776, like it makes them less dead Who said I wanted to dishonor them, why would you say this? Are you deliberately trying to twist what I said? Are you doing this because your argument lacks sunbstance? quote: quote: You and I can only repent for what we have done. I can not repent for anyone else and neither can you. Even if every person on the face of the earth today were to repent today it would have no effect on how God will judge those who came before us. Repentence does NOT help us? Well then the Bible is not true according to that. Please quit trying to twist what I said. I did not say repentance does not help us. What I said is we cannot repent for any one else so no matter how much you or I repent it will have no effect on how God judges those who lived before us. quote: quote: And this proves what? That America (along with the rest of the world) has fallen for satans lies nothing unique to America here nor does it prove America is Babylon. Satan controls B abylons, we are one. How many Babylons do you believe there are? quote: quote: and not a single one of them demonstrate any Scriptural justification to say that America is babylon. Read the Bible, insert America into all Scripture with Babylon in it. you'll see it . Incorrect you will only see it if you are blinded by prejudice against the US. Thankfully I am not, so I can clearly see that the US is not Babylon. quote: If everything we do looks like Babylon, we are in physical Babylon, spitritual Babylon,we had towers go down like it says Babylon We have murder by law, pay your money and kill your baby, we have gays can get married, we have rapists, murders, liars, running all over the country, drugs galore, etc. Every unclean bird. A melting pot of demons. Satan controls all Babylons, why would'nt he control this one? How many Babylons do you think there are? Where do the Scriptures say there is more then one Babylon? Many of the things America does, do line up with some, not all of the things Scripture says about Babylon. Just because some things fit does not make the US Babylon, it is still impossible to find the blood of all who were slain upon the earth in the US and if we can not do that then the US is not Babylon. quote: WE ARE BABYLON! If the US is Babylon then why have you been unable to prove it? Scripture clearly states "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." Rev 18:24 Please explain how the US has the blood of all who were slain abroad yesterday? Oh that's right no sense asking this when you continually dodge the question because if you answered it honestly you would have to admit the US cannot be Babylon. Believe as you are led, as you are led! quote: ORIGINAL: LBolt I have to agree with Tracydolls on one point, slavery has been around for a long time and unfortunately this is a blight in our nations history. I don't think any body here is denying that slavey existed or that it was a blight on this nations history, but that still does not make the US babylon. If you believe the US is babylon ( I said if because I am not sure what you believe) then please explain how this verse applies to the US: "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." Rev 18:24 Do you believe the US has the blood of "all that were slain upon the earth" in her?

bob97 -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 1:05:25 PM)
Remember slavery was basically inherited from our English forefathers and was made legal by the English Court System in 1654. Remember that slavery only lasted 100 years after we became a nation. For a system that was already established and a country that was just beginning to be birthed slavery actually ended pretty fast. Bob

WesP -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 2:25:35 PM)
I need a little clarification here. The slavery discussion does not seem to affect whether or not America is in prophecy. If anyone wants to take it to an extreme, slavery still exists in abundance in several African nations. As far as America not being a godly country, I would like to know where one can find any country that is godly. Regarding the blood of the saints, it is still being shed across the world. I would venture to say that Indonesia and China are the worst for martyrdom. I can list every argument used to paint America as Babylon to paint every other major nation in the world. 911 was not the be-all, end-all of signs. Compare it to the tsunami from 2005 (275,000 vs. 3,000 deaths). Does that not at least make people rethink the "proofs"? There are too many straw houses here. [&:]

Sinner-Saint -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/7/2008 2:33:50 PM)
Well then let me reinterate my point: The beasts are not synonymous with the parts of Nebuchadnezzar's statue. While there are parallels (and I don't think racial slavery has anything to do with it and I would remind people that Biblical slavery is a much different animal...) America is not Babylon per se - but is rich just like her. But seeing America as the first beast of Daniel 7:4 along with Russia and the EU goes a long way to understanding how terrible the fourth beast is when, according to Rev 13:2, they unite to reinstate an all-powerful Roman Empire - which comes at the end of Nebuchadnezzar's statue and it will be smashed by Jesus.

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/8/2008 3:00:57 AM)
quote: Physically impossible The US did not come into existence untill 1776 I can agree that slavery was going on in the British colony that eventually became the US in 1776 but thats not the US nor does it prove the US is Babylon. The slaves before and after do matter to US.. Their blood is in this ground physically... some of them was my forebears. They were born and died here before 1776, their blood is here not in England. Freedom did not come til when really. 1965? Jim Crow, Black Codes? I was born in the '60's I would say that some on here remeber those days. Alot of americans are racist now. Would love to go back to those days. Hate Crimes have risen 10% since 2000. quote: Who said I wanted to dishonor them, why would you say this? Are you deliberately trying to twist what I said? Are you doing this because your argument lacks sunbstance? Every time you use the date 1776. As the date for slavery. Those slaves that were born and died in this country on this soil do matter. You have kept off topic qith debating what year it started, it's bad enough the history books lie in this country, but you dont want to accept it was 1620 quote: How many Babylons do you think there are? Babylon is mentioned over 250 times in the Bible. Again I have said before, explain ALL of this. What spirit associated with Babylon do we not have? Name one. Look at the words asscoiated with her. Pride. We have pride in our country, in our flag, in our freedom. In our way of life. Who is pride in the Bible Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride. We have ALL the spirits of Babylon. Murder-you can pay $ to have a doctor kill your innocent baby for you. 600 serial killers on the lose at any given time. Death penalty. Liars-look at TV Prostitututes-Legal in Vegas, and one in every city and town. Gays -can get married legally Divorce rate-50% among all americans. Drugs-What drug can't you get here? Rapes- of children and women what every 30 minutes now? Alcohol sold every day legally richest country in country, gives peanuts to aid$ like 0.7% 800 military bases in world, in 2 wars, want to start more. Spree killers, thrill killers, people that eat people. Celebrate lies-hint: columbus never stepped foot in US. Racism, sexism, classism Greed What else? Oh This Church-------Latter Day Saints are molesting kids, Catholic Priests molesting litle boys, TBN bilking everyone. Witchcraft is practiced. What am I missing? All sins are here, ALL saints will rejoice when this over! Because this system Babylon and Pride will be gone. Pride killed the saints all thru history. On another post you to said Babylon is not physical, you right, it is spiritual.. The spirit we have in this country killed ALL saints. So no physically a person does not have "leave"Babylon, they must do it spiritually. And to top it off, we actually control the ancient PHYSICAL city of Babylon(Basra)

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/8/2008 3:34:36 AM)
quote: I need a little clarification here. The slavery discussion does not seem to affect whether or not America is in prophecy. If anyone wants to take it to an extreme, slavery still exists in abundance in several African nations. As far as America not being a godly country, I would like to know where one can find any country that is godly. Regarding the blood of the saints, it is still being shed across the world. I would venture to say that Indonesia and China are the worst for martyrdom. I can list every argument used to paint America as Babylon to paint every other major nation in the world. 911 was not the be-all, end-all of signs. Compare it to the tsunami from 2005 (275,000 vs. 3,000 deaths). Does that not at least make people rethink the "proofs"? There are too many straw houses here. the slavery debate can be over. We have revisionist history going on, that's what I was debating. Naming other countries does not take away from America's sin. It lists what will happen to them.. 9-11 was a sign though. It can only fit the merchants and traders-World Trade Center. of Revelations 18.. how long did they take to come down -one hour, ships did what stood in harbor and watched her the smoke of her burning, just like the Bible says! Your right, we cannot narrow it down to just US. The whole world is going nuts. But Babylon gets rewarded DOUBLE for her sins, what can double be? Whew. the tusami, the cyclone, Katrina, earthquakes, famines, war, more signs G-D does not let sin just go by, float on by, not the richest country in the world. Who has every unclean bird in her. Float on by....... quote: If America doesn't reverse it's current policy regarding Israel, which basically is the following: Offering peace, peace and THERE WILL BE NO PEACE. Daniel? No one can even lie and pretend we like Israel anymore. Bush just went there for FIRST time in ihis presidency. 8 years. We have cutfunding to them, brought democracy and got Hamas elected. Want them to negioate peace or Road map to peace, going back to pre1967 lines, which would give Jerusalem back to the Arabs. Nope, not gonna happen. right now we are in the wrong place, we picked our side and it is Babylon! Basra, Iraq Mal 1:5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel.

Midwest -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/8/2008 11:47:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Physically impossible The US did not come into existence untill 1776 I can agree that slavery was going on in the British colony that eventually became the US in 1776 but thats not the US nor does it prove the US is Babylon. The slaves before and after do matter to US.. Their blood is in this ground physically... some of them was my forebears. They were born and died here before 1776, their blood is here not in England. Freedom did not come til when really. 1965? Jim Crow, Black Codes? Slavery was abolished roughly 100 years before this yes there were still problems, some of these problems have been addressed, others are still being addressed there is no instant cure. Do you believe that your actions and comments are helping or hindering the healing process? quote: I was born in the '60's I would say that some on here remeber those days. Then you are younger then I am, yes I remember those days also but they were not about abolishing slavery but eliminating bigotry.(bigotry that was primarily based on race but not entirely) quote: Alot of americans are racist now. Just as the Reverend Jeremiah Wright Jr. has so aptly demonstrated in his sermons. Did those sermons teach those addressed that they should love their enemy and witness to them? No they promoted the doctrine of satan. Racism is not limited to the US, nor is the US the biggest offender when it comes to racism. quote: Hate Crimes have risen 10% since 2000. Mild compared to many places in the rest of the world. Some sources say hate crime in the US has risen as much as a 17 percent and many attribute the rise to the events surrounding 9/11 and crimes agaist those thought to be Islamic (which goes directly against the teaching that we are to love our enemy). Nothing unique to the US here. Look at what is going on in Africa, southeast Asia or south America if you really want to understand hate crimes. You think it is bad here try some of the third world countries visit Voice of the Martyrs quote: quote: Who said I wanted to dishonor them, why would you say this? Are you deliberately trying to twist what I said? Are you doing this because your argument lacks sunbstance? Every time you use the date 1776. The date 1776 was used because that is when the US became a nation prior to that most living in what is now the US were under British law (depending upon the territory they lived in) so the actions of those prior to 1776 can not be blamed on a country that did not exist. Hypothetically speaking say my grandfather and your grandfather acted together to commit a murder 60 years ago, should you and I be put prison today for their actions 60 years ago? Of course not to do so would be ridiculous but yet that is the principal you are trying to apply to a country. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way, and we should be thankful otherwise many of us would be in prison for the actions of our ancestors that we had no control over. quote: As the date for slavery. Those slaves that were born and died in this country on this soil do matter. Nobody said they didn't but you cannot hold the US responsible for events that occured prior to 1776 when the US became a nation just as you and I can not be held responsible for the actions of an ancestor from 100 years ago. quote: You have kept off topic qith debating what year it started, it's bad enough the history books lie in this country, but you dont want to accept it was 1620 That is incorrect Slavery was going on long before 1620 when you get right down to it, but when it comes to the US things that occured before 1776 are irrelevent as the US did not become a nation until then. The Slaves that were in the the British colonies prior to the US becoming a nation were slaves under English law so place the blame where it belongs for those, on England. Now if you want to know who started bringing slaves out of Africa look to the muslims and the African people. At first these Arabs raided African villages themselves seeking humans for sale. This not being always successful, they soon enlisted the aid of fellow African Muslims or recently converted Blacks. Wrapping themselves within Islam, these converts rationalized the slavery of their non Muslim brethren as the selling of "unbelievers." At other times the Arabs would demand tribute in the form of human bodies from Africans weary of the fight against Arabic-Islamic incursions Please read the rest HERE A few excerpts from a nother article you may find interesting: While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very few descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive. While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth. It is estimated that possibly as many as 11 million Africans were transported across the Atlantic (95% of which went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions. Only 5% of the slaves went to the United States). Slaves in Africa - in the early 20th century. However, at least 28 million Africans were enslaved in the Muslim Middle East. As at least 80% of those captured by Muslim slave traders were calculated to have died before reaching the slave markets, it is believed that the death toll from the 14 centuries of Muslim slave raids into Africa could have been over 112 million. When added to the number of those sold in the slave markets, the total number of African victims of the Trans Saharan and East African slave trade could be significantly higher than 140 million people. While Christian Reformers spearheaded the anti-slavery abolitionist movements in Europe and North America, and Great Britain mobilised her Navy, throughout most of the 19th Century, to intercept slave ships and set the captives free, there was no comparable opposition to slavery within the Muslim world. Even after Britain outlawed the slave trade in 1807 and Europe abolished the slave trade in 1815, Muslim slave traders enslaved a further 2 million Africans. This despite vigorous British Naval activity and military intervention to limit the Islamic slave trade. By some calculations the number of victims of the 14 centuries of Islamic slave trade could exceed 180 million. Ethiopia had slavery until 1942, Saudi Arabia until 1962, Peru until 1968, India until 1976 and Mauritania until 1980. What is also seldom remembered is that many black Americans in the 19th Century owned slaves. For example, according to the United States census of 1830, in just the one town of Charleston, South Carolina, 407 black Americans owned slaves themselves. Read the rest at The Scourge of Slavery the Rest of the Story or check out any of the many articles that can be found by this GOOGLE SEARCH Oh thats right these aricles don't matter to you afterall if you were honest and placed the blame for who started the African slave trade where it belonged it would not fit your bias and you would have to quit blaming the US for things that happened long before the US was even a nation. JMHO (don't have any statistics and not sure if any even exist on this) but I believe the US and England have probably done more to stop slavery and slave trading then any other country involved in slave trading (like I said just an opinion, if someone has statistics on this I would be interested in seeing them to see if my assumption is correct) quote: quote: How many Babylons do you think there are? Babylon is mentioned over 250 times in the Bible. Once again you have chosen not to answer. I did not ask how many times it was mentioned, I asked "How many Babylons do you think there are?" Granted babylon is mentioned multiple times but there is only one W**e of Babylon, just as God is mentioned many times also, but there is still only one God. quote:* Again I have said before, explain ALL of this. What spirit associated with Babylon do we not have? Name one. I have repeatedly demonstrated that you can not find the blood of all who were slain upon the earth, yet you continue to ignore it and try lamely to say it can be found in the US because of our ancestors. Once again I will ask you to explain how the US or it's ancestors can be held responsible for the blood of all those slain throughout the world in the last 24 hours? And once again you will probably ignore the question because if you answer honestly you would have to admit it cannot be found in the US therefore the US can not be Babylon quote: Look at the words asscoiated with her. Pride. We have pride in our country, in our flag, in our freedom. In our way of life. No argument, but the same can be said about many countries. quote: Who is pride in the Bible Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride. We have ALL the spirits of Babylon. Just as many countries do, nothing special about the US in this area. quote: Murder-you can pay $ to have a doctor kill your innocent baby for you. 600 serial killers on the lose at any given time. Death penalty. Liars-look at TV Prostitututes-Legal in Vegas, and one in every city and town. Gays -can get married legally Divorce rate-50% among all americans. Drugs-What drug can't you get here? Rapes- of children and women what every 30 minutes now? Alcohol sold every day legally richest country in country, gives peanuts to aid$ like 0.7% I've traveled a lot over the years and in some of these respects the US is tame compared to many other countries. If you ever get a chance go to south east Asia some of the things that occur there on a daily basis and that are legal there would send person in this country to prison for life, but yet they occur daily and in the publics eye with public approval there. Travel the world with your eyes open, I bet you would change your tune then. quote: 800 military bases in world Please show me the verse that says babylon has 800 military bases in the world? What is the relevence? What does it prove? Nothing! quote: in 2 wars So now the 2 world wars are the fault of the US, study history, the US tried to stay out of WW2, but we were attacked and I can guarantee that the majority of the world was thankful that we did get involved(at least at the time) otherwise Hitler's regime might have taken control of the world and there might not be a Jew left. So is the US wrong for getting invloved after we were attacked and helping to stop the holocaust? Actually I think maybe the US should have got involved earlier maybe then the holocaust would not have been as bad as it was. But thats ok if you want to villanize the US for getting involved and playing a major role in stopping the holocaust, that is your choice but it only demonstrates that you are more interested in supporting your biased view then accepting truth. quote: Spree killers, thrill killers, people that eat people. Celebrate lies-hint: columbus never stepped foot in US. Racism, sexism, classism Greed This occurs world wide and is far more rampant in some areas of the world then it is here. Maybe you should travel a little or check out some of the craziness going on in the rest of the world before you start pointing a finger at the country you live in. quote: What else? Oh This Church-------Latter Day Saints are molesting kids, Catholic Priests molesting litle boys, TBN bilking everyone. Witchcraft is practiced. Do you think occurences like this are limited to the US? The US does not hold a patent on this. Do a little research things of this nature occur worldwide. The name of the faiths change from country to country but changing the location or the name of the faith that perpetrates these activities doesn't make it any easier on the victim. quote: What am I missing? A lot or you would realize that while the US has her faults she is still one of the best places left in the world. quote: All sins are here, This can be applied to every country in the world not just the US. Does that make all countries babylon? quote: ALL saints will rejoice when this over! Because this system Babylon and Pride will be gone. Pride killed the saints all thru history. Pride is found everywhere not just the US. Do you believe the US is accountable for all the pride found in the world? JMHO but I believe greed has probably killed more people then pride. quote: On another post you to said Babylon is not physical, you right, it is spiritual.. The spirit we have in this country killed ALL saints. So no physically a person does not have "leave"Babylon, they must do it spiritually. True I believe babylon can not be constrained by time or laocation, but you on the other hand say the US is Babylon and one can leave the US, so if you believe Babylon is the US and continue to stay then aren't you going against what Scripture says? quote: And to top it off, we actually control the ancient PHYSICAL city of Babylon(Basra) Which proves nothing, because the w*e of babylon cannot be constrained by time or location Everything you have said about the US can be applied to any country out there and in many cases such as slavery and child abuse on a much larger scale. For babylon to have the blood of all who were slain upon the world in her she can not be constrained by time or location which by itself is enough reason to blow your Scripturally bankrupt theory out the window. Some one asks you a question but instead of answering the question all you provide is the same old blah, blah, blah, blah. The result, once again you have sidestepped all questions that if you answered honestly would destroy your Scripturally bankrupt theory about the US being Babylon. IF the US is Babylon then why are you still here? If America is Babylon then by your own belief and admission (you did admit you live in the US) wouldn't you be in direct disobedience to the Scriptures by staying? Doesn't Scripture say to come out of her? Looks to me that if you really believed America was Babylon you would be long gone. If you prefer to base you doctrine on your bias and hatred instead of what the Scriptures actually say then so be it, time to shake the dust off and move on no sense watching pearls get trampled into the mud... Once again AMERICA IS NOT BABYLON**

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/9/2008 12:01:07 AM)
quote: Do you believe that your actions and comments are helping or hindering the healing process? what , telling the truth? Sometimes it's painful getting healed. You know how you can have a bad tooth and it hurts till it comes out. I pray for my racism all the time. and this country. Sign....But Baylon will not be healed! Jeremiah 50? Some qualifications only US fits. 800 military bases for only what 250 countires. Richest, the "oil & wine " who's twin towers came down besides ours, like that? you can stop shouting, believe what you want. God Bless you.

cybrjewls -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/9/2008 1:05:16 AM)
Take heart! BarakO may soon join the list among the Babylonian leadership at the Helm.....At the top where he can prove ever more Babylonian as all other leaders of the worldly governments sleep with the prostitute, at times, as written. Will America still be Babylon.....to you? What else is new, the rich want to get richer and the poor are lorded over by the rich, at times..... quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Do you believe that your actions and comments are helping or hindering the healing process? what , telling the truth? Sometimes it's painful getting healed. You know how you can have a bad tooth and it hurts till it comes out. I pray for my racism all the time. and this country. Sign....But Baylon will not be healed! Jeremiah 50? Some qualifications only US fits. 800 military bases for only what 250 countires. Richest, the "oil & wine " who's twin towers came down besides ours, like that? you can stop shouting, believe what you want. God Bless you.

Bettawrekonize -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/9/2008 1:11:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize I do not know if the U.S is Mystery Babylon, though I do not think that we can't rule out the possibility. (Post 171) Sorry, this should read quote: I do not know if the U.S is Mystery Babylon, though I do not think that we can rule out the possibility.

tracydolls -> RE: America In Prophecy (5/9/2008 11:02:44 AM)
quote: Will America still be Babylon.....to you? yes,it is still Babylon. no i don't like BO.

Page: << < prev 6 7 [8] 9 10 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI