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ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit

I think that it is much rarer than people say saying with people being born with mixed chromosones. Almost like the abortion debate of in the case that the mother is in danger, etc.

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ORIGINAL: Giggles56

I know I'm not an expert and can't say what makes a person gay. Just as I can't say what makes a person a murderer, pedophile, thief, addict, etc. Is it just sin? No matter who we are I think we all have the capabilities to be any of those things, and we can choose to follow those desires or not. That's my opinion. Most of us just want to understand why and we seek for answers and people give their opinions. Who can say who's right or wrong?

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ORIGINAL: stellaluna

While we would like gender and sexuality to be black and white, it simply isn't.

Straight Christians don't like to hear (apparently) that one could be born gay. They say they chose it, no matter what. Homosexuals don't like to hear that a person can choose to be with someone of the same sex. They say they were born gay and just didn't realize it. It goes against any box that people would prefer to live in.

For all the reasons mentioned in solo's post, I believe it may be possible for someone to be born gay. Anecdotally, I know of several gay and lesbian people who showed preference for the same sex before age two.

Further, I know of at least a dozen who literally chose to be with someone of the same sex (as adults) because their relationships with people of the opposite sex had been hurtful or abusive, etc.

Anyway, biology is sometimes more complicated than we would like it to be. But like I said before, biology does not override the commandments of God.

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ORIGINAL: stellaluna

While we would like gender and sexuality to be black and white, it simply isn't.

Straight Christians don't like to hear (apparently) that one could be born gay. They say they chose it, no matter what. Homosexuals don't like to hear that a person can choose to be with someone of the same sex. They say they were born gay and just didn't realize it. It goes against any box that people would prefer to live in.

For all the reasons mentioned in solo's post, I believe it may be possible for someone to be born gay. Anecdotally, I know of several gay and lesbian people who showed preference for the same sex before age two.

Further, I know of at least a dozen who literally chose to be with someone of the same sex (as adults) because their relationships with people of the opposite sex had been hurtful or abusive, etc.

Anyway, biology is sometimes more complicated than we would like it to be. But like I said before, biology does not override the commandments of God.

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ORIGINAL: zamdad

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ORIGINAL: stellaluna

While we would like gender and sexuality to be black and white, it simply isn't.

Straight Christians don't like to hear (apparently) that one could be born gay. They say they chose it, no matter what. Homosexuals don't like to hear that a person can choose to be with someone of the same sex. They say they were born gay and just didn't realize it. It goes against any box that people would prefer to live in.

For all the reasons mentioned in solo's post, I believe it may be possible for someone to be born gay. Anecdotally, I know of several gay and lesbian people who showed preference for the same sex before age two.

Further, I know of at least a dozen who literally chose to be with someone of the same sex (as adults) because their relationships with people of the opposite sex had been hurtful or abusive, etc.

Anyway, biology is sometimes more complicated than we would like it to be. But like I said before, biology does not override the commandments of God.

Accepting the argument tnat people are born gay means that we have to also accept the argument that some people are born pedophiles. necrophiliacs, bestials, etc. Pick your paraphilia.

We humans seem to want so bad to find some genetic/biological excuse for our sinful nature. I don't buy the argument either that some people show sexual preferance befreo the age of two. At that age, boys and girls are at the beginning stages of noticing they're plumbing is different. Sexual arousal/attraction, while it is a natural/biological function, is a learned process. This is where environment comes into play.

People have sex with animals. Do you here them saying they have sexual attraction toward four legged critters. A true pedophile is sexuall aroused/attracted to prepubescent children. If we're going to accept that homosexuality is a normal pattern of human development, we're on the slippery slope to accept all other forms of sexual deviance.

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First, I'm not looking for excuses at all. You missed what I said about biology not being an excuse to live in any sort of sin.

Second, you're equating "preference" with "sexuality" in children. I'm not.

Third, I have heard people claim they were born with all kinds of "-philias." Do I believe them? Not necessarily, but I haven't looked into it at all because I'm not interested.

The only reason I'm bringing any of this up is because we know that biologically, many things can happen that affect gender. Gender is not always black and white. When it isn't, neither is sexuality.

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For all the reasons mentioned in solo's post, I believe it may be possible for someone to be born gay. Anecdotally, I know of several gay and lesbian people who showed preference for the same sex before age two.

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ORIGINAL: zamdad

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First, I'm not looking for excuses at all. You missed what I said about biology not being an excuse to live in any sort of sin.

Second, you're equating "preference" with "sexuality" in children. I'm not.

Third, I have heard people claim they were born with all kinds of "-philias." Do I believe them? Not necessarily, but I haven't looked into it at all because I'm not interested.

The only reason I'm bringing any of this up is because we know that biologically, many things can happen that affect gender. Gender is not always black and white. When it isn't, neither is sexuality.

First, I'm not saying that you are looking for excuses. I said we, as in all of us, human beings.

Second, your post indicated that you knew people who expressed a preference for same sex partners and they said that they knew before they were two:

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For all the reasons mentioned in solo's post, I believe it may be possible for someone to be born gay. Anecdotally, I know of several gay and lesbian people who showed preference for the same sex before age two.

If you have heard claims from people born with various paraphilias and you do not believe them, why accept the argument from a homosexual thet they're born that way?

I am not going to say that biology and/or genetics don't play a role in sexual development. But, sex exists in the mind. The mind has to tell the body where to go and how to use the equipment. My only concern with the laser beam focus we tend to get on the biological science of sex is that we neglect the thoughts that go into our sexuality.

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I'm still not equating sexuality to preference. I know people in real life who have shunned members of the opposite sex since birth. How's that?

And regarding the other -philias, I said I didn't necessarily believe them. I don't know these people in real life, so how could I discuss it with them?

We don't necessarily believe things that are unpleasant for us. I admit to it.

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ORIGINAL: stellaluna

I looked up "chimera" and it appears there are only 40 known human cases in humans. That's so rare I'm not sure we can use it as a "what if."

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Straight Christians don't like to hear (apparently) that one could be born gay.

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If it is possible to be born gay then it is possible to be born a murderer, a thief, a rapist, etc. That would play hand in hand with the idea that some people are destined for destruction. But we all know God doesn't create evil and He doesn't want any to perish.

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ORIGINAL: DaveW

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Straight Christians don't like to hear (apparently) that one could be born gay.

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If it is possible to be born gay then it is possible to be born a murderer, a thief, a rapist, etc. That would play hand in hand with the idea that some people are destined for destruction. But we all know God doesn't create evil and He doesn't want any to perish.

Hence the search by some for a 'gay gene.' That does not exist, but there are heritages just as real, just as effectacious as genetics and that is a person's spiritual heritage. We are all born with a spiritual dna birth defect giving us a sin nature. Many kids are born demonized. The demons can be related to sexuality, violence, addictions, or any other vice or illness.

So in that sense, being born gay is entirely possible; and those who have the opinion that such a thing cannot happen is operating out of a non-biblical world view.

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We are all born with a spiritual dna birth defect giving us a sin nature.

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ORIGINAL: DaveW

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ORIGINAL: stellaluna

I looked up "chimera" and it appears there are only 40 known human cases in humans. That's so rare I'm not sure we can use it as a "what if."

That's been because they have only been looking at some extreme cases in the last decade and a half. These are cases where DNA evidence has been presented in court and has conflicted other known evidence. No one has a clue how many there are. It could be in the millions. If you are from a family with fraternal twinning on your mother's side, YOU could be a chimera. I could be too.

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ORIGINAL: zamdad

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We are all born with a spiritual dna birth defect giving us a sin nature.

In other words, like criminals, we're all born with the capacity for wrong moral choices.

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ORIGINAL: stellaluna

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ORIGINAL: zamdad

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We are all born with a spiritual dna birth defect giving us a sin nature.

In other words, like criminals, we're all born with the capacity for wrong moral choices.

I totally agree with that.

And what's that called, I can't think of the word, where I child is murderous from the start? I think there are sins that...override any attempt at a moral choice?...from early childhood. I don't know why that is the case in some people and not in others.

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
I think I've said this before, but I think many people have genetic problems (or hormonal) who never even get tested.

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

RC, I just respectfully disagree.

If someone is intrinsically the opposite of whatever's on the outside, it's not wrong for them to be what they are internally (IMO). Sex organs are secondary, not primary. How do you know what REAL gender someone is, with all of these unknowns? Perhaps someone really is born with the wrong parts, but we, being human, look at the outside and want to say...yep, that's what they are. We're wrong sometimes, and we humans still don't know everything in this area.