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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 2:09:56 PM
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solo_soprano22
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I know it's tough to know what's right when there is a legit problem. I think there are more of these people walking around than we know about however. (Just my opinion.)
I remember discussing this in the transgenderism thread, but it's hard for Christians to say what people are supposed to do when they really do have a legitimate problem. But then I hear some Christians dismiss these problems even though they are real...and these people who suffer from them are real. What are these people to do?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 2:12:01 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
For the sake of this discussion the following definitions will be used:
Homosexual ::
A person who engages in sexual relations with members of the same gender
SSA (Same Sex Attraction) ::
A person who struggles with being attracted to members of the same gender but abstains from engaging in sexual relations with them.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 2:14:09 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
I think there are more of these people walking around than we know about however. (Just my opinion.)
But, shouldn't we wait and see if unbiased research really backs up that opinion before trying to form a theology around it?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 2:15:32 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
I know it's tough to know what's right when there is a legit problem. I think there are more of these people walking around than we know about however. (Just my opinion.)
I remember discussing this in the transgenderism thread, but it's hard for Christians to say what people are supposed to do when they really do have a legitimate problem. But then I hear some Christians dismiss these problems even though they are real...and these people who suffer from them are real. What are these people to do?
What are they to do? The same thing as anyone else; Repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord.
What you are seemingly trying to do is find an excuse to justify sin, and it just won't fly.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 2:17:09 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please do not use our Community to in any way promote or advocate the acceptability of same-sex unions/marriage, homosexual activity, or homosexual adoption rights.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 2:18:32 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
I think there are more of these people walking around than we know about however. (Just my opinion.)
But, shouldn't we wait and see if unbiased research really backs up that opinion before trying to form a theology around it?
Well, if there are people with hormonal problems walking around, or people that had some kind of androgen insensitivity, they may just not know that themselves. There may not ever be studies done on it actually, but it may be true. I'm not saying we should form a theology around it based on opinion, but based on the fact. We DO know that SOME people with SSA have such problems. They exist already, so what are they to do?
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 2:30:31 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
Well, if there are people with hormonal problems walking around, or people that had some kind of androgen insensitivity, they may just not know that themselves. There may not ever be studies done on it actually, but it may be true. I'm not saying we should form a theology around it based on opinion, but based on the fact. We DO know that SOME people with SSA have such problems. They exist already, so what are they to do?
Even if all this nonesense is true, does that negate the grace and power of God to save and deliver those from sin?
I think not.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 5:12:52 PM
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GeorgiaNerd
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quote:
RedcoatMello
quote:
This is really the area I'm confused with, because I don't feel any desire for sexual gratification, or any sexual attraction at all. But I have always wanted to go on a date with another woman. So, I have been confused whether this is just as wrong as SSA supposedly is.
quote:
The term "date" under modern definitions implies romantic interest which is often taken as a desire for sex. If you have no sexual desire but you want to spend time with other women, what's wrong with simply hanging out and being friends?
It's hard to explain, but this is how my attractions and relationships have always been. There is definite romantic interest there, but no sexual interest. The two are connected in most people, but not all people. We all know people who are interested in sex but not romance (those who only enjoy one night stands or friends with benefits, etc.). It is much rarer to find someone like me who is the opposite, though. Anything beyond a kiss is something I am not interested in, and I finally found someone who feels like me about romance and sex. The only problem is that she is also a woman. We are friends and do hang out, but both of us want romance. Hence, the reason I was wondering if an asexual romantic relationship with someone of the same sex, or at the very least a date, is just as wrong as SSA. This might belong in another thread, but I posted it here b/c I figured it would get moved here anyway.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 6:01:14 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
solo_soprano21
Yeah, that's why I said that SSA doesn't have to involve lust. Just like men and women can be attracted to each other without lust being involved.
quote:
If that is the definition of lustful to you, then I'd be talking about lust.
If you're refering to SSA with regard to homosexuality, then it does have to do with lust. Homosexuals, as I have argued in the past, define themselves by their sexual interest. Yes, we all can be attracted to others for their looks, personality, money, etc. There is nothing sexual about it. But, for those who choose to be identified as homosexual, it's about the behavior. Either engagement in the behavior or the desire to engage in it.
quote:
I think a problem is that I don't consider natural attraction to the opposite sex to be inherently lustful.
But, if your are talking about sexual attraction, how can you seperate lust from the equation. If sexual thoughts are entering your mind with regard to another person, how is that not lust?
quote:
Henny
Yeah, but you are a biblical counselor, so you have to realize that you are dealing with a specific population who will take homosexuality in a certain way. I think the family's feelings on homosexuality and religious background will have a large effect on what degree of "devastation" a child's coming out will do both to the individual with SSA and to the family unit (same thing with the community the person lives in).
There is some truth to what you are syaing, Henny. Yet, the choices we make in many areas impact others. When it comes to the choices we make regarding our sexual behavior, there are many collateral victims. While some people may come around and accept the behavior, they are still affected. I think this is a part of the reason that homosexuality has become so accepted in the culture. So many of us know, or are close to, someone who has come out of the closet that it's easier to change our perspective on the matter even if it means compromising our deepest beliefs.
quote:
One can be gay and still exist in a monogomous relationship -or even hold off on sex until they meet the right person (plus lesbians have always confounded this aspect of the argument as they tend to have the lowest degree of sexually transmitted diseases of any population).
How? Until one engages in the behavior, they're not gay. As far as lesbians having the lowest rate of STD's, I heard some findings from studies that indicated to the contrary.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 6:50:00 PM
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henny
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quote:
How? Until one engages in the behavior, they're not gay. As far as lesbians having the lowest rate of STD's, I heard some findings from studies that indicated to the contrary.
Note I also said, "one can be gay and exist in a monogamous relationship."
But as to being gay and waiting for the right person, I fully admit I slipped and forgot the definition that this website states we must use in reference to homosexuality. So in "Crosswalk.com" speak, I should have said, "One can have SSA with the intent to act on his/her desires, but defer the event of said action until they find another person of the same sex with whom they want to share the rest of their lives with; after which point they will consummate their desires and become homosexuals."
That seemed like a bit of a mouth full, though.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 7:53:43 PM
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Leon_Figg3
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I find it very interesting how this whole issue of sexual identity,gender identity, sexual orientation, and acceptability, etc., etc., has evolved and has affected not only families, but the culture as a whole, and even our religious and political views. It has moved form the realm, on both sides, as a deeply personal matter and business, to it being a very public matter in which it is expected to be everyone's business (up to a point). And if you would please pardon the exaggeration, we may even be considering a data base of everyone's biochemical, biological, genetic, and psychological make up in order to determine: whether or not one's physical appearance matches their mental image of themselves, whether or not their sexual attractions is going to be for members of the same sex, or the opposite sex.
Now, I am not a counselor. I am an individual who has had sexual issues, just about all my life. I have examined and researched those issues from just about every point of view. I have read about the history of such issues, the people involved, and how it has all affected and interacted with the morality of this country.
I have entertained thoughts that doctors made a mistake when I was born. Somehow this idea came out of the fact that I had to be circumcised twice.
I have wondered if my preoccupation with sexual thoughts, of all kinds, dating back to my earliest memories, were the result of some chemical imbalance.
I have wondered if my sexual confusion resulted from some sort of physical and even sexual abuse when I was real young.
I have struggled with my sexual confusion that largely resulted from the emotional turmoil that existed within me, and in the family, and extended family, I grew up in. My father tended not to be a consistant presence in the family because he was busy trying to make ends meet. My mother had several issues to contend with including: love, intimacy, men and sex, but that didn't stop her from using men and the possibility of sex to get what she wanted. I grew up knowing I wasn't wanted. My mother never let me, or my two younger brothers ever forget that. However, that did not stop my mother from putting me in the role of her confidant-her girlfriend, because I was the most introverted of her three sons. It did not stop me from full-filling that role because of my need to get some kind of love from her, or anyone else on a consistent basis.
I could go on, but my bottom line is that sexual identity, gender identity, sexual attraction/ orientaton (whether opposite or same-sex), etc., etc., is a very complicated and personal issue. There are many contributing factors. No matter how a person, or a group chooses to deal with it, it comes down to how an individual ultimately sees himself. It deals with how the individual sees himself in relation to others, and how he sees himself in relation to his religious beliefs, and relationships.
I am sorry for being long winded and perhaps a little off topic.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 8:26:06 PM
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Kat_D
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Thanks for sharing that, Leon. I am so sorry for your pain.
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"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 8:53:15 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
What are they to do? The same thing as anyone else; Repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord.
What you are seemingly trying to do is find an excuse to justify sin, and it just won't fly.
Thanks
RC
No. What I am saying is that some people have outward genitalia that are (for example) male, but they have chromosomes that are female, making them inwardly female but outwardly male. You can test them and everything. You may want to ignore that, but there are people walking around on this earth who are like that. They are female biologically but have the wrong parts (or vice versa). It's not an attempt to justify anything. I don't think SSA is a sin, but homosexuality is. You (being a generic "you") can ignore the fact that some people have a messed up outward/inward body agreement, but this is something that exists. What are these people? Are they female or male?
I'm not trying to get into a biology lesson here; people can research it if they want to. The fact of the matter is that these things happen and IMO should be thought about by the church at least. It's not the person's fault that something got messed up (in the examples I've given). The world is fallen, and things happen.
But I pose the question again, if someone is genetically a female but has the wrong parts on the outside, are they supposed to desire a man or a woman? My logic says a man (because they are females genetically), but what is right for them to do (ie are they "supposed" to desire what's inside or what's outside)? They're two sexes in one almost, proven. Is there a a right?
< Message edited by solo_soprano21 -- 1/21/2008 9:01:40 PM >
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 9:08:05 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3619
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
What are they to do? The same thing as anyone else; Repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord.
What you are seemingly trying to do is find an excuse to justify sin, and it just won't fly.
Thanks
RC
No. What I am saying is that some people have outward genitalia that are (for example) male, but they have chromosomes that are female, making them inwardly female but outwardly male. You can test them and everything. You may want to ignore that, but there are people walking around on this earth who are like that. They are female biologically but have the wrong parts (or vice versa). It's not an attempt to justify anything. I don't think SSA is a sin, but homosexuality is. You (being a generic "you") can ignore the fact that some people have a messed up outward/inward body agreement, but this is something that exists. What are these people? Are they female or male?
I'm not trying to get into a biology lesson here; people can research it if they want to. The fact of the matter is that these things happen and IMO should be thought about by the church at least. It's not the person's fault that something got messed up (in the examples I've given). The world is fallen, and things happen.
But I pose the question again, if someone is genetically a female but has the wrong parts on the outside, are they supposed to desire a man or a woman? My logic says a man (because they are females genetically), but what is right for them to do (ie are they "supposed" to desire what's inside or what's outside)? They're two sexes in one almost, proven. Is there a a right?
I have two questions, First do you know of any documented cases where someone is truly female and truly has mail genitalia? In all of the cases I have heard of, they have non identifiable genitalia i.e. neither truly male or female.
Second, What percentage of people do you believe can be conclusively identified in this category?
The cases you have raised pose some challenging theological questions, but all evidence to date says these are the extreme exceptions, not the norm. Too often though these examples are used to try and define SSA in the general sense despite the majority of evidence being quite the opposite.
When these cases do arise, we need to be sensitive to the issues involved, but they should be dealt with on a case by case basis, not used as a basis for a general theological answer. This would be similar to trying to define marriage based on the case of siamese twins; do we decide that polygamy is ok, because of this rare exception, or do we deal with this issue separately realizing that it poses uniquely different challenges. Personally I believe the latter to be the best way to handle a situation like this.
< Message edited by benelchi -- 1/21/2008 9:14:46 PM >
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 9:20:11 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1753
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LeonnFigg,
Thanks for sharing your story. I think it helps others to gain understanding when they hear the stories of others and their struggles. When it comes to sexual issues, because we tend to keep them private, we each come at the issue from our own experience. We have a tendency to assume that others share similar experiences.
That being said, as many of you know on this forum, I spent five years working with sex offenders. Sex has been an important part of my life since I was very young. My parents were very open about discussing sexual matters with me. Looking back at it, I think my parents did the best they could, but their open attitudes were reflective of the times. As I approached puberty, my dad made comments that it was time to take me to Mexico and get me bread. His advice to me for the actual birds and the bees talk was, “There are women who won’t and women who will, always carry a condom.”
In addition to having parents with liberal perspectives on the matter, the older kids in the neighborhood were all too eager to share the knowledge they’d gained. Fortunately, none of them tried to intimately share that knowledge.
My earliest sexual memories are with the girl next door when I was five years old. We were in the bushes between our houses showing each other our privates. At about the same time, I had a female cousin come visit the house for several days. I remember being caught by my mother as we were “playing” with each other. My mother never said anything and the sexual relationship with this cousin lasted into our teens.
I also experimented with same sex behavior when I was in the third grade. I had heard about homosexuality and the general consensus was that it was gross. But, the sexual gratification of my relationship with my cousin, which was also supposed to be gross, convinced me that it couldn’t be as bad as people said. I tried doing it with a couple of neighbor boys. Looking back on it now, if I had been caught in today’s climate, I would have been charged as a sex offender. In sixth grade another boy and I experimented and even told a group of our friends. I felt a sense of this experimentation being wrong, even worse than sex with my cousin.
In high school I became sexual with many girls. The culture I lived in encouraged promiscuity. It was like we were expected to get as many girls as we could. I learned that my dad’s advice was right and that there were more girls who will than won’t. After graduating from high school, I moved 3,000 miles from home and had two priorities on my mind: sex and getting high.
Soon after arriving in the location I moved to, I met a man who became my roommate and mentor. He was a regular Don Juan. Everywhere he went, ladies threw themselves at him. Under his study, he taught me that women were to be used for my gratification. Not long after, I met another man and moved into his home. He was gone most of the time for work. He told me at the get go that he was bi-sexual and that he was married. I figured that we would get along fine if he did his thing and I did mine. As I got to know him, he was more homosexual than bi-sexual. He used his wife to get to young men. He liked boys who were in their late teens. He had literature from NAMBLA and encouraged me and others to read it. It became apparent that the only reason he was married was to use his wife to get young men. I was fortunate in that I got out of that relationship before he had an opportunity to get from me the only thing he wanted.
Before I became a Christian, I was pursing sexual relationships with as many women as I could. While I was blessed with the gift of gab, my purpose for the any relationship with a female was to get her in bed. I even spent some time working as a male stripper.
Fast forward 20 years. I was hired as a probation officer to supervise a caseload of sex offenders. Part of the duties were to co-facilitate treatment. In that co-facilitation, I listened to countless men and women talk about the issues that led them into acting out sexually. I was humbled as I realized “But for the grace of God go I.” It became apparent to me that, even with all the social, psychological, medical, and scientific theories out there, the Bible addresses each and every one of these issues. That the desire to gain pleasure from sexual contact leads to perversion. No matter what we try and label things as, it’s still deviant sexuality and causes harm to self and others. The labels we give ourselves are nothing more than an indication of our desires. God wants us to desire Him above anything else.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 9:32:19 PM
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A_crucified_man
Posts: 147
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Charleston, WV
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
Well, if there are people with hormonal problems walking around, or people that had some kind of androgen insensitivity, they may just not know that themselves. There may not ever be studies done on it actually, but it may be true. I'm not saying we should form a theology around it based on opinion, but based on the fact. We DO know that SOME people with SSA have such problems. They exist already, so what are they to do?
Even if all this nonesense is true, does that negate the grace and power of God to save and deliver those from sin?
I think not.
Thanks
RC
Amen, Brother!!! Hormones have absolutely NOTHING to do with our fallen condition - we have a sin nature and are bent naturally towards all forms of evil.
Luke 4:18 clearly says why Jesus came and what only He can accomplish in a person's heart and life.
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"
Take it first hand from someone who has been set free from all forms of immorality and perversion by the power of God. Sin is sin, and God will not entertain our rights and justifications by Self to live as we please.
He died on the Tree and paid our sin debt so that we can live as free men in Christ. Through repentance and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (Christ and Him crucified), we are made a new creation in Him. All things become new.
_____________________________
Derek
John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 9:36:12 PM
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GeorgiaNerd
Posts: 169
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From: UGA... RIP UGA VI
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quote:
I could go on, but my bottom line is that sexual identity, gender identity, sexual attraction/ orientaton (whether opposite or same-sex), etc., etc., is a very complicated and personal issue. There are many contributing factors. No matter how a person, or a group chooses to deal with it, it comes down to how an individual ultimately sees himself. It deals with how the individual sees himself in relation to others, and how he sees himself in relation to his religious beliefs, and relationships.
Very well said, Leon.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 9:38:55 PM
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solo_soprano22
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Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome can make a male have XY chromosomes but female genitalia. Some men do not have "full" female genitalia or they have both sets, or they can have all the female parts or incomplete male parts. (I know women can have it too and have their own sets of problems.) Those are documented. (I'm sure not ALL cases are documented.) If a boy has androgen resistance in the womb, he will have XY chromosomes but since he is resistent to the androgen (testosterone-- which tells you to develop into a boy), there can be all kinds of possibilities as far as what he ends up with. There are documented cases of this; the libary has great resources, esp. for seeing case studies. I don't really trust the 'net unless it's a medical journal or something that's really reputable.
There are other syndromes that can make the hormones be reversed (e.g. a man can have hormone levels like those of females). I'm not sure that there is a scientific name for that though. I've never heard a coined term for it, but I've seen documented case studies on video.
There are other 'syndromes' dealing with this, I'm sure. AIS and the hormone scenario are just the two that come to mind. Especially because I've seen people that have these things wrong.
Back when I was deep in genetics (which thankfully, I am not now) I remember it being as high as 50 out of a million live births for complete AIS. I remember seeing a recent figure as high as 500 out of a million births. There's a such thing as partial AIS, but I don't know the figures for those. I suspect that, for the impartial syndrome, they may not even test.
I know if you want case studies and such (and better percentages), there are plenty of peer-reviewed articles on it library databases. I use the Academic Search Premier when I need decent articles that are scientific. I can't post any links here though because they won't work (since it's a library database). I know videos exist too...although some of them may be graphic for educational purposes.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 9:47:12 PM
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Kath
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quote:
But I pose the question again, if someone is genetically a female but has the wrong parts on the outside, are they supposed to desire a man or a woman? My logic says a man (because they are females genetically), but what is right for them to do (ie are they "supposed" to desire what's inside or what's outside)? They're two sexes in one almost, proven. Is there a a right?
Isn't that question best discussed in the Transgendered thread?
Transgenderism/Crossdressing:
Click Here
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 9:59:20 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3619
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome can make a male have XY chromosomes but female genitalia. Some men do not have "full" female genitalia or they have both sets, or they can have all the female parts or incomplete male parts. (I know women can have it too and have their own sets of problems.) Those are documented. (I'm sure not ALL cases are documented.) If a boy has androgen resistance in the womb, he will have XY chromosomes but since he is resistent to the androgen (testosterone-- which tells you to develop into a boy), there can be all kinds of possibilities as far as what he ends up with. There are documented cases of this; the libary has great resources, esp. for seeing case studies. I don't really trust the 'net unless it's a medical journal or something that's really reputable.
Again I acknowledge that such cases do exist, but I am unaware of any case where someone was born with "normal" genitalia while suffering from this condition. What you have described above is identical to what I have read i.e the genitalia is indeterminate. There is no case that I am aware of where someone was unquestionable male, but had female chromosomes or visa versa. I know that not all of the cases are documented, but it is unreasonable to assume that such a case exist unless at least one case is documented, don't you think.
quote:
Back when I was deep in genetics (which thankfully, I am not now) I remember it being as high as 50 out of a million live births for complete AIS. I remember seeing a recent figure as high as 500 out of a million births. There's a such thing as partial AIS, but I don't know the figures for those. I suspect that, for the impartial syndrome, they may not even test.
500 out of a million seems to me to be quite an exaggeration. I have seen figures as high as 50 out of a million, but these are just guesses. What ever the rate turns out to be, we do know that this syndrome is very rare. To put it another way it may be as high as .005%, and again I think that these cases need to be treated as the exception, and not the bases for a rule.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/21/2008 11:19:47 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16922
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
The only reason why I'm wondering about how people feel about that particular question in this thread is just because of SSA. I'm wondering if people think it's SSA if the person has a legit issue within themselves that even the biology is "confused" on.
Ok :) That makes sense. We just can't get into a big drawn out discussion about it here in this thread.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/23/2008 2:07:52 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano21
Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome can make a male have XY chromosomes but female genitalia. Some men do not have "full" female genitalia or they have both sets, or they can have all the female parts or incomplete male parts. (I know women can have it too and have their own sets of problems.) Those are documented. (I'm sure not ALL cases are documented.) If a boy has androgen resistance in the womb, he will have XY chromosomes but since he is resistent to the androgen (testosterone-- which tells you to develop into a boy), there can be all kinds of possibilities as far as what he ends up with. There are documented cases of this; the libary has great resources, esp. for seeing case studies. I don't really trust the 'net unless it's a medical journal or something that's really reputable.
Again I acknowledge that such cases do exist, but I am unaware of any case where someone was born with "normal" genitalia while suffering from this condition. What you have described above is identical to what I have read i.e the genitalia is indeterminate. There is no case that I am aware of where someone was unquestionable male, but had female chromosomes or visa versa. I know that not all of the cases are documented, but it is unreasonable to assume that such a case exist unless at least one case is documented, don't you think.
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Back when I was deep in genetics (which thankfully, I am not now) I remember it being as high as 50 out of a million live births for complete AIS. I remember seeing a recent figure as high as 500 out of a million births. There's a such thing as partial AIS, but I don't know the figures for those. I suspect that, for the impartial syndrome, they may not even test.
500 out of a million seems to me to be quite an exaggeration. I have seen figures as high as 50 out of a million, but these are just guesses. What ever the rate turns out to be, we do know that this syndrome is very rare. To put it another way it may be as high as .005%, and again I think that these cases need to be treated as the exception, and not the bases for a rule.
500 out of a million on a worldwide scale may be feasible. I think it's probably in between 50 and 500; it probably depends on who you choose to believe, assuming all the studies are reputable in the first place. I know in other countries, they sometimes report their rates to be far higher than rates here, and usually (from my experience), they're more on top of things as far as documenting medical conditions in populations. Or maybe something's in the air.
I have seen documented cases where a female has female chromosomes but male genitalia. I don't thinik I've seen as many cases for men who are the equivalent. My point is that these people exist and are having a hard time with it-- whatever the number, and the church seems to shun them, from what I've seen, but it also seems like this is happening because they don't know what to do about a person that's this way.
I asked because I want to know what exactly SSA is to these people. Is there an SSA for them?
I already said I don't think the attraction is a sin; I think acting on it is a sin, but I'm wondering if someone is this way legitimately...what is SSA to them and what would be homosexual.
And is SSA just inherently a sin anyway (for anyone)?
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 1/23/2008 3:11:22 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3619
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
I have seen documented cases where a female has female chromosomes but male genitalia. I don't thinik I've seen as many cases for men who are the equivalent. My point is that these people exist and are having a hard time with it-- whatever the number, and the church seems to shun them, from what I've seen, but it also seems like this is happening because they don't know what to do about a person that's this way.
I haven't heard of this at all, but I have seen documented cases of the opposite (sort of). The most famous case being that a female Olympic medalist (who they found out after death was male; there were questions raised about whether the medals should be revoked; she was even married. However, even in this case, the genitalia was abnormal i.e. not truly female. Again I agree these cases raise some difficult questions, but they are far from the norm. My concern is that right now it is PC to treat these rare exceptions as the norm, and all evidence we have clearly shows this to not be the case.
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