RE: is suicide forgiven? (Full Version)

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preserved -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/11/2008 6:59:25 PM)

This is an very unusual question. If the person was not a born again christian and committed suicide...they cannot be forgiven.

It is very and highly unusal for a born again christian to committ suicide...I do not belive God would allow it....We do not have the power in ourselves to kill what God created.

To those who dies in freak accident....here again...it would all depends on whether the person was saved or had the opportunity to accept Christ at the time of death (unlikely) if not then they cannot be forgiven...



WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/11/2008 10:32:09 PM)

For God to "not allow" something in one person, regardless of whether they are a Christian or not, would negate his gift of Free Will . . . which he gives to everyone.



TorchHeart -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/11/2008 10:39:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: preserved

It is very and highly unusal for a born again christian to committ suicide...



With all due respect, what proof of this do you have? Is there a study or two you can back this up with, or is this just an opinion?



Focusing -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/11/2008 10:50:59 PM)

quote:

It is very and highly unusal for a born again christian to committ suicide...I do not belive God would allow it....We do not have the power in ourselves to kill what God created.


Unfortunately, it does happen. Even born again Christians can be faced with obstacles in life that they feel they simply cannot overcome. I don't believe I'm the only suicide survivor on these forums who has seen it happen. [&o]



armydude -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/11/2008 11:00:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focusing

quote:

It is very and highly unusal for a born again christian to committ suicide...I do not belive God would allow it....We do not have the power in ourselves to kill what God created.


Unfortunately, it does happen. Even born again Christians can be faced with obstacles in life that they feel they simply cannot overcome. I don't believe I'm the only suicide survivor on these forums who has seen it happen. [&o]
You're not.



JimboFletch -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/12/2008 11:04:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CCCdnt
Your comments are from a OSAS point of view...

As I've stated more than once in this thread, I came to a different conclusion about most suicides while I still believed that grace was not sufficient to keep me from losing what grace provided. So throwing disparaging remarks on people that believe in Perseverance of the Truly Born Again doesn't hold water.



revbob4God -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/12/2008 11:09:14 AM)

(Quote)To those who dies in freak accident....here again...it would all depends on whether the person was saved or had the opportunity to accept Christ at the time of death (unlikely) if not then they cannot be forgiven... (end Quote)

What makes you say that?



revbob4God -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/12/2008 11:10:54 AM)

I have seen so many instances where people were at the point of death and accepted Christ. Sylvia had an uncle once, dying of terminal cancer. He could barely make it to the church. We had to carry him up the steps and to the baptismal font. He was Baptised three hours before he died.



JimboFletch -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/12/2008 11:14:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: revbob4God

I have seen so many instances where people were at the point of death and accepted Christ. Sylvia had an uncle once, dying of terminal cancer. He could barely make it to the church. We had to carry him up the steps and to the baptismal font. He was Baptised three hours before he died.

You must believe in baptismal regeneration. I can't imagine putting someone in that condition through that unless they were in their right mind and begged to be immersed/poured [not sure since you used the word "font"].



revbob4God -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/12/2008 11:15:34 AM)

He did.



lrdl3537 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/12/2008 12:20:44 PM)

I agree with post #2 the attempt is if succesful. I hope that person had enough time to ask for salvation and forgiveness.



JimboFletch -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/12/2008 12:35:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lrdl3537

I agree with post #2 the attempt is if succesful. I hope that person had enough time to ask for salvation and forgiveness.

If you're going that far back.... Will YOU - a born again joint-heir with Christ - be doomed eternally if you have a massive stroke that renders you unconscious and you die within a heartbeat but before you've had a chance to ask for forgiveness for a sin committed a second before?



beachcooky -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/12/2008 3:44:00 PM)

quote:

God has never told us suicide was a sin that could not be forgiven. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit—not suicide.


Amen!



beachcooky -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (8/12/2008 3:46:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lrdl3537

I agree with post #2 the attempt is if succesful. I hope that person had enough time to ask for salvation and forgiveness.


So, are you saying that God will turn your back on you if you committed suicide and succeeded? Hasn't God promised us that He will never leave us NOR forsake us? If you truly are a Christian, and if they already asked Jesus into their lives, God will not turn his back on you.



dyluck -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/16/2008 6:55:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beachcooky

quote:

ORIGINAL: lrdl3537

I agree with post #2 the attempt is if succesful. I hope that person had enough time to ask for salvation and forgiveness.


So, are you saying that God will turn your back on you if you committed suicide and succeeded? Hasn't God promised us that He will never leave us NOR forsake us? If you truly are a Christian, and if they already asked Jesus into their lives, God will not turn his back on you.


I think an example of grace of God would be that YOU DIDN'T SUCCEED! And you have an opportunity to repent and look to Him ! This life is not about us it is about Jesus and the Glory of God since the begining. It is true that he says he will never leave us nor forsake us because if we are Truly Christian and walking in the will of God we are santified by the blood of Jesus but we are made a new creature! One that is not a slave to sin and finds rest in Him!.

If you honestly believe your statement above in the context I understand, then everyone that says "i believe in jesus" is saved and we have no need to turn from our sinfull ways. God CANNOT be in the presents of sin... Jesus himself said "Father why have you forsaken me?" because Jesus BECAME the very thing he detests... SIN! The only way Jesus could overcome the wrath of God is because he IS God.

Please read points below becasue I think this is very important:

I submit this:
1. If you question it even slightly... don't do it! Is eternal fire a chance you are willing to take? I wouldn't suggest gambling it.
2. Habitual sin leads to death
3. Suicide is murder See consequences: Revelation 21:8 (also refers to cowardly and unbelieving). Most Suicide is for selfish purposes. I mean no offence to anyone here, but this is from the bible.
4. Lukwarm Christians will be spewed from the mouth of God in Wrath and Christians who practice lawlessness will go to hell. Matthew 7:21-23
5. One whom commits suicide does not trust in God, does not have faith in Jesus, does not overcome. Those who overcome are rewarded that ability to eat from the tree of life.

Here we see in Galatians... Christians being addressed in this context: Galatians 19-21 - " 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. "
Why would he say those to non-christians who are already a slave to sin and going to hell?

Another question I am going to pose is does it not say love your brother many times in the bible? In 1 John it gives consequences of eternal death if you do not love your brother. Causing your brother to stumble is not loving your brother. Someone who calls themselves a Christian and is TRULY renewed in the Spirit of God CANNOT take their own lives. If one does, they would cause their brothers to stumble, primarily because they will be seeing the ultimate act of selfish endeavors. Unfortunately a suicide affects more people around them then just them.

I know someone is going to say “don’t tell me you can you lose your salvation ! Is that what you are saying??”
YES! Here is quick examples:
Example of names never written in the book of life (always lost): Revelation 13:8 / 17:8
Example of names entered in the book of life (salvation): Philippians 4:3,
Example that names can be removed from the book of life: (lost salvation): Revelation 3:5
"He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels."
Psalms 69:28 "28 May they be blotted out of the book of life
and not be listed with the righteous. “- Please read whole chapter to see who he is talking about.
Consequence when your name is not in the book: Revelation 20:15

Now really God will be the ultimate Judge of all this.
I know what the bible says, and just cause it says “thou shalt not kill thy self” means that God accepts it. It certainly does not glorify God and nor do I think it falls under his will. I am sure “suicide” falls under a few other categories like murder and selfish ambition for instance.

If you do struggle with ending your life. Please seek help from a church and a pastor.
Look to Jesus because your redemption draws near! You CAN overcome!

God Bless!



chrisovery -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/16/2008 7:46:08 PM)

i do not think that this is a productive discussion for any of us to be having. the word of god states that he will have mercy on whom he decides to have mercy on. we cant judge the final spot for any man. it is not our call. no matter what they have done. i think it would be better to focus on the fact that we serve a merciful lord.

people commit suicide for many different reasons. my father did when i was 13. i thought for a long time that he was in hell and he maybe but it is not for me or anyone else to say. i do not agree with suicide but we should take a look at what the apostles stated about judas. they did not say whether he went to heaven or hell what they stated is he went to his own place.



ladyichigo -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/16/2008 7:57:57 PM)

quote:

5. One whom commits suicide does not trust in God, does not have faith in Jesus, does not overcome.


How do you know that my dad "did not trust God" or "had no faith in Jesus"? Were you there? Did you know my dad? Did you know his heart? Did you hear him singing the hymn, "It Is Well With My Soul" as he walked around the house one minute, and the next minute groaning and weeping, pleading for God to take him home????? My dad IS (and I say it in present tense because I believe he is alive in Christ) a born-again Christian who HAD Bi-Polar Disorder. You can't generalize all suicide cases and put them into ONE box and label them that they "did not trust in God, or did not have faith in Jesus...."

I'm not condoning suicide. My point is that there are those Christians (like my dad) who take their own life because the disorders they have takes over their mind and they no longer have control over their actions. I remember my dad crying out to Jesus to rescue him, and asking Him for strength. My mother prayed prayed for 3 days straight for him at his bedside and it was only when she prayed for him that he felt whole and at peace. When she grew physically tired, she asked the Holy Spirit to intercede for her. You cannot know the suffering he must have endured and how tortured he must have felt living in that mental state! You were not there. He wanted to be free, be completely healed and be whole again and I believe the only way my dad thought he could be that way was when he was God's eternal presence in Heaven.

My dad died 11 years ago.... After reading the above response, I feel like it just happened yesterday.



dyluck -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/17/2008 12:10:42 AM)

Hi chrisovy and ladyichigo (not sure if you are japanese, is it number 1 lady?)

I think this is quite a productive discussion by means of people who have not committed suicide yet are contemplating it.
We shouldn't be here trying to justify it.
My message was not meant to be in judgement, but meant to say (to make a long story short)
You are betting on the slow horse to win the race if you think that if you kill yourself, you will go to heaven.
Not saying that the horse can't win, but biblically the odds are low.
I can't know what God will judge, but I rather deter people from taking that way out and instead overcome in the holy spirit.
I am grieved to know that these things happened to both of you! May the lord keep you strong and steadfast unto the lord.

I am not judging your fathers for what they did. I can't lie to you and say that I agree with the fact that they committed suicide, but what is done is done. We should be on this forum ministering through the word on this thread against suicide because it isn't the answer. You know it and I know it. Please be with me on this. That is what I am trying to do. You guys are a testimony to it!! a testimony to its pain! and can really help those in this situation.

Do you agree?



HellHathNoFuryAtAll -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/17/2008 12:22:22 AM)

The body is God's temple and it is not our own. A price was paid and we belong to God. Since we have no ownership, we have no right to destroy it. Destroying a temple of the Holy Ghost is a sin. Not an unforgivable sin but a sin none-the-less. If the person was able to communicate with God and ask for forgiveness; then God would surely grant it. I wouldn't want to try him though.



AboundinginHisGrace -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/17/2008 9:57:40 AM)

Grace = Getting something you do not deserve. You did not derserve salvation before you were saved. After you are a saved you do not deserve it anymore than you did before you were saved. So someone who kills themselves doesn't deserve salvation any less than they did before. That is why salvation is so sweet, we are getting something we do not deserve. PRAISE BE TO GOD!!!!



jonfortean6 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/17/2008 10:31:26 AM)

Amen AboundingIHG.

I believe the bottom line is: Had the person accepted Jesus as his Saviour when he died? I mean, if we are going to get into the ten commandments, we've all broken them sometime or another. As it says in Romans, God's laws aren't so that we can follow them and gain salvation, they are a standard so that we can see that none of us are righteous and we need Grace. Now, as we know, no one can lose his or her salvation. So whether or not someone repents in between the moment that she hangs a rope around her neck and the moment he jumps off the platform, if they were saved, I believe that God's grace is abundant in that persons life.
Nevertheless, I'm not saying that we should use Go'ds perfect gift of salvation as an insurance policy so that we can live our lives as we wish and then go to heaven. That isn't right at all.

While on the subject, I am curious to know from what passage of scripture people base their argument that whoever commits suicide is going to hell. Could someone please infrom me?



dyluck -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/17/2008 1:03:06 PM)

Hey jonfortean6 please read my statement above (post 415). There are a few versus there.

Secondly you said "you can't lose your salvation"... that is answered briefly there too. At what point are you saved? I challenge that because you might as well cut the good majority of the new testament out of the bible because the warning given by Paul and Peter and John were warnings to Christians.. Generally concequences were hell fire. Read 1 john, read Romans and 1/2 corinthians etc. Read Revalation!
Not everyone who says lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven even Jesus himself said that. He also said he would "Burn chaff" (Matthew 3:12) and "burn trees that do not produce fruit" (Matthew 3:10). I can almost guarantee those people think they are saved.

Yes you are right the Grace of God isn't to be used as an "insurance policy to sin" People don't understand the fundimental importance of Romans 6 in relationship to Romans 5. We are still on this earth because of Grace! Grace is abundant but not to be abused by born again (changed) christians who are dead to sin and by nature no longer want to live in sin. That is the purpose of Romans 6.

Now we talk about someone who is purposly knows he is going to do something bad and displeasing to God, his creator and the one who breathed life into the individual, ready to hang himself, then asks for forgivness before he dies. Well... God will really judge that... however, i wonder we are truly "sorry" if we know we are going to the law of God and then appologise/ask for forgiveness and then do it anyway. Its like the whole "its better to say sorry and do it anyway then ask permission" mantality. This is again, unbiblical.
Jesus didn't die on the cross so that we can live in sin folks. He died to take our punishment and atone for our sins. Why? Because otherwise, the perfect Justice of God's wrath would be upon us!

Like I said a few times on this thread. Taking your own life is like betting on the slow horse. What is at stake? Eternal separation from God and hell fire and torment for eternity. I would more then think twice about that.

This is NOT to judge those already gone...
I do stay firm on my belief that the majority of people who have a mental disorder that have mental capacity to pre-meditate their action, know EXACTLY what they are doing. If you were to take pretty much everything mentally wise out of a human, they will still have "self preservation" by instinct. If you understand the consequence of suicide (death) then you understand it's impact and understand the ramifications.
Look and stick with God through these tough times! "This too shall pass" God has the power to raise the dead, does he not have the power over emotional and mental disorder?

I think one of the biggest things we have to realize, tough life or not.. This life is not ours, its not about us but it is about Jesus, the glory of God almighty! We are here for him. His grace is on us for His glory. Ending our lives short does not Glorify God. It says in the bible Romans 6:13 "Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness."

The hurt and anguish on this earth is nothing compared to Hell.
Lastly Salvation is a Gift, which must be received. You have to use an action by faith to receive the gift of salvation. There are many "ifs" in the bible that would equate to refuse salvation by not following the will of God. Not by works but by faith; however, faith without works is dead. Jesus says that the law is death because the law is "you have to obey" but the law went from word to our hearts! Now it is "you will automaticly obey" because our natural desire and joy should be to serve the lord in a new-ness of life because we are dead to sin and alive in christ (a new person!).

This is not to condemn but to build up. A house that is built on stone will survive and stone is hard! Sand blows in the wind and has no steadfast stronghold.



jonfortean6 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/17/2008 2:55:01 PM)

Thanks for the verses dyluck, I read over them and I see why some people would believe this.

However, I don't believe that these verses are being interpreted correctly. For instance, when Jesus said that, "Not everyone who says lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven," I believe that He is talking about people who have not made the decision to follow Christ and have not accepted Jesus as their Savior. On the outside, they may appear to follow Christ, but on the inside, there heart has never repented. 1 Samuel 16:7 says: "...The Lord does not see as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."
Also, the Bible does say in John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
Once we have accepted Jesus, God adopts us into His family. We can't lose our salvation. For example, let's suppose that I'm adopted by a family. If I run away from home, murder someone, or even commit suicide, does that mean that I'm no longer part of the family? Only if they disowned me, and God promises never to do that.

I do understand what you are saying though, and I agree with some of it. I'm looking forward to discussing this topic more.



rachsquelch -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/17/2008 3:05:28 PM)

My auntie was a born again Christian, the most lovely, humble, God-loving person you could ever meet. She committed suicide in March and I know she is forgiven and is in Heaven now. God gave my mum and me the same sign to show she is in Heaven. So yes I believe suicide can be forgiven.



beachcooky -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (9/17/2008 3:11:17 PM)

I think people are forgetting a scripture.
All sins are forgiven except for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
And last time I checked, suicide wasn't blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

So yes, it IS forgiven.



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