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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 3:32:24 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
....the hyprocracy here is stunning.
Only God knows the heart....
That is true.
What outward manifestations have we seen in Obama and his wife to show where their hearts are?
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 3:36:37 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
...as I wrote previously in this thread:
quote:
Obama's father, who left him when he was two, was a self-described agnostic (his grandfather was Muslim)and he describes his mother as secular humanist.....yet in working with the disenfranchised in S. Chicago, Obama came to see Jesus Christ through the work of other Christians.
...yet rather than celebrating this point, all we see here is people attempting to tear down his faith.
You make a very good point. I tip my hat to you sir and I agree whole heartedly.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 3:37:43 PM
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TomTurn
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Am trying to do too many things at once at home today and stand corrected on if I denied that Obama says he has accept Christ as his savior. But so did Larry Flynt.
My point is fruit and I have not seen much out of Obama or his wife other than replacing the Big G with the little g
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 3:46:17 PM
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wing2000
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quote:
Am trying to do too many things at once at home today and stand corrected on if I denied that Obama says he has accept Christ as his savior. But so did Larry Flynt.
Or you could have said..."but so did George W. Bush" or some other public official...which would be a far more appropriate comparison.
quote:
My point is fruit and I have not seen much out of Obama or his wife other than replacing the Big G with the little g
And what fruit is that? Frankly, from a distance, we really can't know any of these candidates. I just find the disproportionate attention on Obama to be disingenuious.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 3:50:59 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
Or you could have said..."but so did George W. Bush" or some other public official...which would be a far more appropriate comparison.
But I didn't and no it wouldn't
quote:
And what fruit is that? Frankly, from a distance, we really can't know any of these candidates. I just find the disproportionate attention on Obama to be disingenuious.
Voting records and words. Start one on the other candidates and I am there, this one seems to be about Obama
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 4:10:24 PM
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Tagwife
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Anyone can go to Church and claim to be a Christian. I use to live in a garage --that did not make me a car. The Bible says by their fruits we shall know them. What are his "fruits"? One cannot pick and choose the Bible, he says he stands on the Sermon on the Mount, not some obscure verse in Romans about homosexuality.
A lot of prayer needs to be done of this matter
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 4:33:36 PM
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jkdjr25
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Abortion and homosexuality aside hasn't Obama spent a lot of his time working on things like ethics reform, trying to help the homeless, the poor and the disabled?
Citing two issues and making a declaration that he's not a Christian is just plain nonsense.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 4:45:06 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Abortion and homosexuality aside hasn't Obama spent a lot of his time working on things like ethics reform, trying to help the homeless, the poor and the disabled?
Citing two issues and making a declaration that he's not a Christian is just plain nonsense.
Promoting homosexuality (sin) and promoting the murder of innocent children (abortion, sin), being a racist and biggot is sin, and are deal killera as far as being a Christian is concerned.
(1Jo 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(1Jo 3:10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 4:53:11 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
Abortion and homosexuality aside hasn't Obama spent a lot of his time working on things like ethics reform, trying to help the homeless, the poor and the disabled?
Citing two issues and making a declaration that he's not a Christian is just plain nonsense.
Promoting homosexuality (sin) and promoting the murder of innocent children (abortion, sin), being a racist and biggot is sin, and are deal killera as far as being a Christian is concerned.
(1Jo 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(1Jo 3:10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Thanks
RC
So you NEVER sin yourself then; because if you do then, by your own definition, you aren't a Christian.
So now we're calling Barack Obama a racist? Well nice to see that the Christian community is willing to throw around dangerous accusations like that. Good on ya.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 5:02:20 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
So you NEVER sin yourself then; because if you do then, by your own definition, you aren't a Christian.
So now we're calling Barack Obama a racist? Well nice to see that the Christian community is willing to throw around dangerous accusations like that. Good on ya.
I'm not the one running for President and anyone that supports a maniac like rev. Wright for 20 years is a racist, bigot and fully aniti-American.
Did you see that church full of hysterical American hating congregants, and Obama is just another one of them.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 5:10:50 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
So you NEVER sin yourself then; because if you do then, by your own definition, you aren't a Christian.
So now we're calling Barack Obama a racist? Well nice to see that the Christian community is willing to throw around dangerous accusations like that. Good on ya.
I'm not the one running for President and anyone that supports a maniac like rev. Wright for 20 years is a racist, bigot and fully aniti-American.
Did you see that church full of hysterical American hating congregants, and Obama is just another one of them.
Thanks
RC
So you know Barack personally then. You've seen him and talked to him privately and can back up what you're saying with evidence beyond circumstantial accusations?
You said that if anyone sins then they aren't a Christian. Your words, you brought that up don't backtrack on me now. If that's true then not one person here has assurance so what does it matter anyway who we vote for and why? If we're all doomed anyway or can lose our salvation just making a mistake.
I stand by what I said and I'll even do you a favor and go one step further and explain what I've been doing.
My entire problem with a lot of the things said in this thread comes down to the use of language. I'm a writer so I know how language works. I wouldn't have had an issue if people had said that they didn't think Barack Obama was a Christian or in their opinion he wasn't. But that's not what anyone did. You made the declaritive judgement that he wasn't and that's not something you can know unless you either knew the man personally or you happen to be God because only God can see our hearts and know them.
Comment after comment wasn't based on one's opnion or even their personal interpretation of scripture. It was all based on two issues, ones that have a lot of people confused and not really sure where they stand.
Of course all this is just how I view things. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 5:16:41 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
So you know Barack personally then. You've seen him and talked to him privately and can back up what you're saying with evidence beyond circumstantial accusations? ...
Of course all this is just how I view things. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
When one hears someone promote sin (homosexuality, murder, racism, etc) you do not have to break bread with them to realize they are in error.
Yes, you could be wrong and most likely are.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 5:34:42 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
So you know Barack personally then. You've seen him and talked to him privately and can back up what you're saying with evidence beyond circumstantial accusations? ...
Of course all this is just how I view things. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
When one hears someone promote sin (homosexuality, murder, racism, etc) you do not have to break bread with them to realize they are in error.
Yes, you could be wrong and most likely are.
Thanks
RC
Let's see your proof. Show me where Barack Obama has said something even remotely racist. You made the accusation, not me. I disagree with him on abortion but that's a contentious one no matter who you are.
He's come out in support of Israel, a fact conviently ignored I might add. The only issues you seem to have with him are where he stands on abortion and homosexuality. I've already said that I'm not going to vote for the man, but I'm also not about to sit idlly by and allow people to make declarative judgements about the condition of his soul and his personal walk with God when none of you can know for sure what either of those things are.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 7:37:34 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
He's come out in support of Israel, a fact conviently ignored I might add. The only issues you seem to have with him are where he stands on abortion and homosexuality. I've already said that I'm not going to vote for the man, but I'm also not about to sit idlly by and allow people to make declarative judgements about the condition of his soul and his personal walk with God when none of you can know for sure what either of those things are.
(Mat 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
And his stand on homosexuality and abortion is sufficient fruit for me.
Now if you want to buy into all that campaign rehtoric and drink the Kool-aid; then be my guest.
It has been enjoyable watching him dance on the head of a pin yesterday and today; trying to distance himself from that maniac Pastor and advisor of his, but not hack off the far left kook fringe that supports him and believe as the Rev. Wright does.
Thanks
RC
< Message edited by rcjames -- 3/15/2008 7:44:45 PM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 7:43:46 PM
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CT23
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If I was to hang out regularly with a neo-Nazi, that would reflect on my character. Obama has gone to this racist pastor's church for a long time so surely he knew by now what that guy thought. If my pastor said racist stuff I would leave that church.
IMO, who you choose to associate with can speak to your character also.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 8:23:37 PM
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lightshineon
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Ok, if you do not believe Jesus is the only way, then you do not believe he is who he say's he is. Then you believe his death, and ressurection really counted for nothing. Muslim, Hindu, Buddist,and others believe in a Jesus, not to mention JW. To say the belief in the crucifixion of Jesus and the blood is not the only way to the Father, makes someone no more of a Christian than the Pink Panther Avatar you have. You know Holy week is coming up. We are saved by garce through faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus says if anyone tries to enter, any other way, but by him they are at thief, and a robber. What the death and resserection a very essential Christian Doctrine is nothing? Jesus died for nothing? I know my Bible too, and I understand the main and plain things, as do my first, and second grade SS class. I say this in love to you, truth in love as the Bible says. There is no other way to be saved except to accept Christ death, Resserection, to be saved. Oh yeah and he is coming again soon, so people better have that belief. It irrates me for you to ay the devil knows, well then how come bo does not. How unbalanced can one be, as not to think you have to believe this first grade SS doctrine. NO HE IS NOT SAVED, IF HE DOES NOT BELIEVE THIS. He must not read the Bible at all if he does not believe this doctrine, so how does he go by Christ Teachings. Sorry I miss the Christ in his face as did the other posters. e Blessings to you, I have nothing against you, but we cannot twist scripture to make it say something it does not. ONCE AGAIN JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 8:34:04 PM
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UncleRuckus
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Psalm 1
[1] Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
[2] But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
[3] And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
[4] The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
[5] Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
[6] For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/15/2008 8:37:40 PM
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buckifn
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If anyone still has to debate whether or not obama is anything maybe they should watch those videos again.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 3:09:40 AM
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jkdjr25
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I stand by what I said. You can gang up, name call and insult me all you like but that's not going to change my opinion. And that is all any of you have. An opinion.
Not one person here knows Obama's heart OR the condition of his soul. I stand by that statement and there's not a thing anyone can say that will make me back down from that stance.
If you hang out with someone who's a Nazi, I might raise my eyebrow a bit, but I wouldn't think less of you for it. That person might be a long time friend for all I know. Friends don't always agree, if they did it would be terriblly boring.
Its nice to know, though, that there are so many helpful people who'll judge me as unworthy because of my friendships with people. I mean it's not like Christ hung out with the outcasts of society or anything. Good thing we have people so willing to conform to the model of Christianity set by the republican party.
I mean, who actually wants to help the poor, the sick and the destitut?
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 7:37:44 AM
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TomTurn
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quote:
If you hang out with someone who's a Nazi, I might raise my eyebrow a bit, but I wouldn't think less of you for it.
What if them and/or their spouse started talking with the thoughts of the Nazi?
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 10:10:16 AM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
quote:
If you hang out with someone who's a Nazi, I might raise my eyebrow a bit, but I wouldn't think less of you for it.
What if them and/or their spouse started talking with the thoughts of the Nazi?
If said person was openly expressing the same thoughts I would go to my friend privately and express my concern.
Barack Obama has not done that so any accusations that he has are erroneous and bearing false witness against them. It's also slander/libel depending on the medium chosen to say such things.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 11:44:44 AM
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Ps103
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 11:47:30 AM
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jkdjr25
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If it seemed like I was getting too angry then I apologize.
I've been accused of not being a Christian myself so I tend to take such accusations personally. Especially when there are more fruits to a person's life than two issues that have been too politicized by both parties.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 12:33:53 PM
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TomTurn
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Obama says he is a Christian, ok, but I question it at times and I sure doubt his walk. And I really question any Christian who is pulling for him to be President. Not question their Christianity but their common sense.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/16/2008 12:49:11 PM
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jkdjr25
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
Obama says he is a Christian, ok, but I question it at times and I sure doubt his walk. And I really question any Christian who is pulling for him to be President. Not question their Christianity but their common sense.
Personal opinions about his walk are something that I've never had a problem with. I'm all for asking questions because that's a key part of reasoning together; which is, unless I'm very much mistaken, something that Christ said that we should come together and do.
The only issue that I ever had was in people making the declaritive statement that we wasn't when there's no substantive way to know.
The bearing of fruit means more than just two issues. His community work, trying to raise people up and help the poor, the sick and the downtrodden are all the kinds of fruit that a Christian should bear. I've already said that I don't agree with him on abortion, but that's not reason enough for me to think that he's not a Christian.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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