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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/28/2008 9:52:29 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1918
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quote:
I'd like to see the Church getting involved without asking the Government for money. I'd also like to see the programs that are supposed to help people continue.
Chruches ARE involved. Mine has a meals on wheels program we just started here in the county. Our area churches offer after school programs, reading programs, mentoring programs, job corp programs, food banks, homeless shelters just to name a "few". We don't ask or want a dime of gov. money. We support these programs wtih our own money. The money God entrusted to us to use for His work.
Our Methodist churches have over 33 helping programs with a rather large staff. And yes it takes some pretty large building to do all the work they do.
What programs are "you" working in through your local church or association of churches?
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/28/2008 10:06:41 AM >
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/28/2008 9:57:51 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1918
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
P31W, maybe you should call and report some of those people you KNOW are manipulating the system. I think that's what I would do. At the very least, it might spark some investigation into what they are doing or not doing. With any system there will be people who manipulate and use the system, but I don't like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I don't believe people like this are in the majority. In fact, I'd say they are a visible minority that ruins it for everyone who truly needs assistance.
Remeber I am a "social worker". If everyone in Mississippi who cheated the government were to go to prison there would not be enough people walking around to raise their children. It's a huge problem here. I suspect that where you live it is NOTHING like it is here in Mississippi. Think about Lousiana and the number of people who didn't leave when the wall broke. That is what "I" am use to living in.
The truth is these programs don't want to catch people who cheat. They want MORE people to be on the programs because it benefits them to have a more clients. They have a 'stake" in the programs being used more and more.
When the people from NO and the coast came here after Katrina we had our "own" entitlement folks coming out of their perfectly good homes standing in line to get free food along side the very people from NO and the coast who had lost everything they owned. They took the free cloths and blankets only to hold a "yard sale" the very next week. Entitlements have almost destroyed Mississippi.
I live the consequences of "government handout" and "entitlements". I am your future. I know the direction your state is headed for. Working people don't like it.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/28/2008 10:08:31 AM >
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/28/2008 10:26:41 AM
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jkdjr25
Posts: 676
Joined: 2/19/2008
From: Michigan
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
I'd like to see the Church getting involved without asking the Government for money. I'd also like to see the programs that are supposed to help people continue.
Chruches ARE involved. Mine has a meals on wheels program we just started here in the county. Our area churches offer after school programs, reading programs, mentoring programs, job corp programs, food banks, homeless shelters just to name a "few". We don't ask or want a dime of gov. money. We support these programs wtih our own money. The money God entrusted to us to use for His work.
Our Methodist churches have over 33 helping programs with a rather large staff. And yes it takes some pretty large building to do all the work they do.
What programs are "you" working in through your local church or association of churches?
1. I don't go to church any more. I grew weary of hypocrites and the cliquish behaviour that made me an outcast everywhere I went.
2. I use my voice, through my vairous blogs, to bring attention to issues that I care about. One voice is sometimes all it takes to wake people up.
If we'd spend less time complaining about the good programs, like welfare and medicaid, and actually stopped spending money on moronic studies that show men are different than women there would be a lot more to go around.
_____________________________
I reject your reality and subsitute my own.- Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/28/2008 10:53:00 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1918
Joined: 6/13/2005
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Oh,
Like I said on the other thread. Liberals are talkers and conservatives are doers.
I have to go to work now. Bye.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/28/2008 3:16:33 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 885
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Ronald Reagan professed that he was a Christian yet he didn't attend church, had a poor relationship with his children, engaged in adultery and premarital sex (check his wedding date vs the birth of his and Nancy's eldest).
It's very obvious what is going on here.
Reagan, GWB and McCain all get a free pass.
....while Obama is raked over the theological coals. First he was a Muslim...and now he belongs to a heretical church.....what's next?
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/28/2008 3:45:04 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6760
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
It's very obvious what is going on here.
Reagan, GWB and McCain all get a free pass.
....while Obama is raked over the theological coals. First he was a Muslim...and now he belongs to a heretical church.....what's next?
Personally, I am little concerned about theological statements from Presidents unless said statements would lead me to believe that their beliefs will affect their policies in a way that I disagree with.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 3/28/2008 4:06:53 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 4999
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
...I'll take my own understanding of scripture over any person's because I've shaped that view over more than twenty years of thought and reason...
A stroll down memory lane... 20 years ago I had already been a believer for 21 years, my oldest child was 16, I had been a civilian after 9 years in service, and I had read through and studied the Bible more hours than I can imagine. And you say you were just getting started...
Sorry, I guess that's all off topic.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? No! - 3/28/2008 5:23:18 PM
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jimbob1
Posts: 39
Joined: 3/16/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
During a campaign stop yesterday in Greensboro, North Carolina, Senator Obama told the audience that he believes he "can have everlasting life" because Jesus Christ died for his sins. But he then told a questioner that he believes Jews and Muslims who live moral lives are just as much "children of God" as he is.
Jimbob,
...and of course President BUsh has said essentially the same thing...yet I don't see you attacking his faith. Why is that?
There is a one stop thread on all matters re: Bush set up by the managers here; this is not it.
This is about Obama & whether he is a saved Christian, which might be very doubtful as he attends an anti-American, race and politics vs. salvation,pro Farrakan, pro Kadafi racist, anti-jewish, anti-Italian church that says it shouldn't be black on black crime..that blacks choose the wrong victims (implied violence against whites), doen't tithe or care to give his families monies to ministry or the needy & is twisting scripture because he is probably in denial that his mom & relatives may be in hell-saying Christ is not necessary for salvation (wrong).
quote:
During a campaign stop yesterday in Greensboro, North Carolina, Senator Obama told the audience that he believes he "can have everlasting life" because Jesus Christ died for his sins. But he then told a questioner that he believes Jews and Muslims who live moral lives are just as much "children of God" as he is. (listen to audio clip)
The Illinois Democrat added that his late mother didn't share his faith but was a kind and generous person, so he's "sure she's in heaven." (listen to audio clip)
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=73553
Finally the Obama's are in a very dangerous church, promoting anti socialietal behavior and 1 where parents should not bring kids (or anyone) to hear x-rated sermons.
He also is in the 1st US church to ordain gays and lesbians, an abomination & supports the killing of the unborn.
Sorry, this thread not about Bush, there's a huge 1 already on here.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? No! - 3/28/2008 7:03:19 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 885
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Sorry, this thread not about Bush, there's a huge 1 already on here.
ok...I look forward to your critique of GWB's faithh in that huge thread then :)
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? No! - 3/28/2008 7:06:26 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3312
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I cannot believe the people who will do anything to support this man. They will go to no limits, no matter how ridiculious.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? No! - 3/28/2008 7:14:32 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2266
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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I'm not surprised that Barack Obama made that statement. United Church of Christ is a very liberal church.
quote:
In 1957, the United Church of Christ formed through the union of the Evangelical and Reformed Church with the General Council of Congregational Christian Churches. The church attended by Barack Obama may be one of the more liberal churches within that denomination.
The motto of the United Church of Christ comes from John 17:21: "That they may all be one." The denomination's official literature uses broad doctrinal parameters, honoring creeds and confessions as "testimonies of faith" rather than "tests of faith," and emphasizes freedom of individual conscience and local church autonomy. Indeed, the relationship between local congregations and the denomination's national headquarters is covenantal rather than hierarchical: local churches have complete control of their finances, hiring and firing of clergy and other staff, and theological and political stands.
In the United Church of Christ, creeds, confessions, and affirmations of faith function as "testimonies to faith" around which the church gathers rather than as "tests of faith" rigidly prescribing required doctrinal consent. As expressed on the United Church of Christ constitution:
The United Church of Christ acknowledges as its sole Head, Jesus Christ, Son of God and Savior. It acknowledges as kindred in Christ all who share in this confession. It looks to the Word of God in the Scriptures, and to the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, to prosper its creative and redemptive work in the world...
The denomination, therefore, looks to a number of historic confessions as expressing the common faith around which the church gathers, including:
the Apostles' Creed,
the Nicene Creed,
the Heidelberg Catechism (inherited from both the German Reformed and German Evangelical heritages),
Luther's Small Catechism (inherited from the German Evangelical heritage),
the Kansas City Statement of Faith (a 1913 statement in the Congregationalist tradition),
the Evangelical Catechism (a 1927 catechism in the German Evangelical tradition), and
the Statement of Faith of the United Church of Christ (written at the founding of the denomination).
While not functioning as creedal tests of faith, together these confessions and testimonies of faith situate the United Church of Christ solidly within broad mainstream of trinitarian Christian belief, and more specifically within the the family of Reformation-era Protestant churches...
The basic unit of the United Church of Christ is the local church (also often called the congregation). Local churches have the freedom to govern themselves, establishing their own internal organizational structures and theological positions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Christ
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? No! - 3/29/2008 12:47:56 AM
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biglighthouse
Posts: 10
Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
I'm not surprised that Barack Obama made that statement. United Church of Christ is a very liberal church.
quote:
In 1957, the United Church of Christ formed through the union of the Evangelical and Reformed Church with the General Council of Congregational Christian Churches. The church attended by Barack Obama may be one of the more liberal churches within that denomination.
The motto of the United Church of Christ comes from John 17:21: "That they may all be one." The denomination's official literature uses broad doctrinal parameters, honoring creeds and confessions as "testimonies of faith" rather than "tests of faith," and emphasizes freedom of individual conscience and local church autonomy. Indeed, the relationship between local congregations and the denomination's national headquarters is covenantal rather than hierarchical: local churches have complete control of their finances, hiring and firing of clergy and other staff, and theological and political stands.
In the United Church of Christ, creeds, confessions, and affirmations of faith function as "testimonies to faith" around which the church gathers rather than as "tests of faith" rigidly prescribing required doctrinal consent. As expressed on the United Church of Christ constitution:
The United Church of Christ acknowledges as its sole Head, Jesus Christ, Son of God and Savior. It acknowledges as kindred in Christ all who share in this confession. It looks to the Word of God in the Scriptures, and to the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, to prosper its creative and redemptive work in the world...
The denomination, therefore, looks to a number of historic confessions as expressing the common faith around which the church gathers, including:
the Apostles' Creed,
the Nicene Creed,
the Heidelberg Catechism (inherited from both the German Reformed and German Evangelical heritages),
Luther's Small Catechism (inherited from the German Evangelical heritage),
the Kansas City Statement of Faith (a 1913 statement in the Congregationalist tradition),
the Evangelical Catechism (a 1927 catechism in the German Evangelical tradition), and
the Statement of Faith of the United Church of Christ (written at the founding of the denomination).
While not functioning as creedal tests of faith, together these confessions and testimonies of faith situate the United Church of Christ solidly within broad mainstream of trinitarian Christian belief, and more specifically within the the family of Reformation-era Protestant churches...
The basic unit of the United Church of Christ is the local church (also often called the congregation). Local churches have the freedom to govern themselves, establishing their own internal organizational structures and theological positions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Christ
GREENSBORO, N.C. - Senator Barack Obama has told an audience that although he believes Christ died for his sins, those who reject that teaching can also be children of God.
During a campaign stop yesterday (3-26-08) in Greensboro, North Carolina, Senator Obama told the audience that he believes he "can have everlasting life" because Jesus Christ died for his sins. But he then told a questioner that he believes Jews and Muslims who live moral lives are just as much "children of God" as he is.
The Illinois Democrat added that his late mother didn't share his faith but was a kind and generous person, so he's "sure she's in heaven."
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? No! - 3/29/2008 5:18:50 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2266
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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A Christian who is led by the Holy Spirit will not run for President. Lying is an abomination to God. The President can not jeopardize national security by telling the whole truth.
Revelation 2
2I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Revelation 21
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
So the question shouldn't be whether or not a candidate is a Christian.
I, myself, will never vote for anyone who supports abortion.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? No! - 3/29/2008 8:06:47 AM
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henny
Posts: 1291
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: biglighthouse
GREENSBORO, N.C. - Senator Barack Obama has told an audience that although he believes Christ died for his sins, those who reject that teaching can also be children of God.
During a campaign stop yesterday (3-26-08) in Greensboro, North Carolina, Senator Obama told the audience that he believes he "can have everlasting life" because Jesus Christ died for his sins. But he then told a questioner that he believes Jews and Muslims who live moral lives are just as much "children of God" as he is.
The Illinois Democrat added that his late mother didn't share his faith but was a kind and generous person, so he's "sure she's in heaven."
Bush basically said the same thing, so it's not really unheard of as politicians go:
quote:
President George W. Bush revealed his personal Universalist belief during an televised interview:
Question: "Do we all worship the same God, Christians and Muslims?"
Bush: "I think we do. We have different routes of getting to the Almighty."
Question: "Do Christian and non-Christians, do Muslims go to heaven in your
mind?"
Bush: "Yes they do. We have different routes of getting there."
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_savn.htm
Personally, I really can't blame them.
They are politicians after all.
The other alternative would be alienating half the country by telling them they are going to hell unless they worship their God?
Although I think the best route would simply be replying, "My eschatological beliefs are irrelevent to my ability to serve as the president of the united states. Next question"
_____________________________
Many Bothans died to bring you this information.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? No! - 4/18/2008 11:30:36 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1918
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
. - Senator Barack Obama has told an audience that although he believes Christ died for his sins, those who reject that teaching can also be children of God.
We must also remember that in Black Liberation Theology "sin is defined as man's inhumanity to man".
Black Liberation Theology does not teach or believe that Jesus died on the Cross in our place inorder to make an atonement for our sins.
You also must take into consideration who they define Jesus Christ as.
__________
Black Liberation Theology is not true Christanity.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 4/18/2008 11:48:54 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1918
Joined: 6/13/2005
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D. D. Webster writes in the Elwell Evangelical Dictionary
"The biblical notion of salvation is equated with the process of liberation from oppression and injustice. Sin is defined in terms of man's inhumanity to man. Liberation theology for all practical purposes equates loving your neighbor with loving God. The two are not only inseparable but virtually indistinguishable. God is found in our neighbor and salvation is identified with the history of "man becoming." The history of salvation becomes the salvation of history embracing the entire process of humanization. Biblical history is important insofar as it models and illustrates this quest for justice and human dignity. Israel's liberation from Egypt in the Exodus and Jesus' life and death stand out as the prototypes for the contemporary human struggle for liberation. These biblical events signify the spiritual significance of secular struggle for liberation.
What importance is Jesus in liberation theology? His struggle is for the poor and the outcast. However, Jesus is not considered God; rather, He “shows us the way to God” and “reveals the way one becomes the son of God.”
Webster summarizes what liberation theology believes this way:
"Only the cry of the oppressed is the voice of God. Everything else is projected as a vain attempt to comprehend God by some self-serving means. This is a confused and misleading notion. Biblical theology reveals that God is for the poor, but it does not teach that the poor are the actual embodiment of God in today's world. Liberation theology threatens to politicize the gospel to the point that the poor are offered a solution that could be provided with or without Jesus Christ."
Obama's church website states, "The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology."
Cone writes in A Black Theology of Liberation, "The goal of black theology is the destruction of everything white, so that blacks can be liberated from alien gods." Cone also argues that "God's identity is revealed in the black struggle for freedom."
< Message edited by P31W -- 4/18/2008 11:55:42 AM >
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 4/25/2008 2:34:36 PM
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staticspark1947
Posts: 78
Joined: 6/11/2007
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Just wondering about the self righteous among this forum. How many of you , or those close to you have had abortions yourselves? How many of you harbor secret gay tendencies? How many of you perhaps have gay or bi-sexual family members that you distance yourselves from? I have found those that preach the most, sometimes are guilty of the same sins that they vehemently preach against. Are these sins any worse than pedophilia, domestic violence , rape or murder?Criminals are committing these other sins everyday while some Christians see homosexuality and abortion as the only issues to involve themselves with. Greed is another sin that should be addressed. We are heading for a recession because we have broken the bank with our obsession of acquiring "things" . I wish that more preachers would harp on these other sins also. While people are concerning themselves with homosexuality and abortion our country is going down the tubes with these other issues. I have had an abortion myself. My next door neighbors are a man and a woman who are a married gay couple with their own "friends". They have never given me any problems in 27 years.
I would much rather live next door to law abiding gays than to discover that my next door neighbor is a heterosexual pedophile,rapist or murderer.
< Message edited by staticspark1947 -- 4/25/2008 2:40:46 PM >
_____________________________
PRAYER IS LIKE GAS IN OUR TANKS...WITHOUT ACTION ON OUR PART THE CAR DOES NOT MOVE!
I would rather be a living bible for all to see than to go around constantly quoting it for actions speak louder than words!!
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 4/25/2008 2:52:52 PM
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staticspark1947
Posts: 78
Joined: 6/11/2007
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This is exactly why the separation of church and state is a good thing. Politicians are not preachers no more than preachers are politicians . When religion and politics collide there is always animosity and confusion ..sometimes resulting in war. If mankind can learn to understand our differences and respect our opposing views, we will then be on the road to true peace. Although I am proud to be a Christian, I respect other people's views. The best way to turn others away from Christianity is to force feed the Bible down their throats. The best way to turn another to Christ by setting an example , that is to live our lives like Christ with patience, respect , understanding and love. Don't our children tend to mimic us, no matter what we tell them to do, they do what we do... rather than what we tell them to do?
_____________________________
PRAYER IS LIKE GAS IN OUR TANKS...WITHOUT ACTION ON OUR PART THE CAR DOES NOT MOVE!
I would rather be a living bible for all to see than to go around constantly quoting it for actions speak louder than words!!
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 4/25/2008 3:03:49 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3312
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Well wright, and the Bo sure set a good " Christian View" for our children to mimic. They claim to be Christians, so, at that they need to put their money where their mouth is. The bible is supposedly not crammed down their respective throats, it should be written in thier hearts. agreed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: staticspark1947
This is exactly why the separation of church and state is a good thing. Politicians are not preachers no more than preachers are politicians . When religion and politics collide there is always animosity and confusion ..sometimes resulting in war. If mankind can learn to understand our differences and respect our opposing views, we will then be on the road to true peace. Although I am proud to be a Christian, I respect other people's views. The best way to turn others away from Christianity is to force feed the Bible down their throats. The best way to turn another to Christ by setting an example , that is to live our lives like Christ with patience, respect , understanding and love. Don't our children tend to mimic us, no matter what we tell them to do, they do what we do... rather than what we tell them to do?
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 4/25/2008 3:10:44 PM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 4/25/2008 3:24:47 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 824
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
Ronald Reagan professed that he was a Christian yet he didn't attend church, had a poor relationship with his children, engaged in adultery and premarital sex (check his wedding date vs the birth of his and Nancy's eldest).
It's very obvious what is going on here.
Reagan, GWB and McCain all get a free pass.
....while Obama is raked over the theological coals. First he was a Muslim...and now he belongs to a heretical church.....what's next?
I have never seen Reagan or GWB get a free pass. They both were hated no matter what they did.
_____________________________
<-------- She really loves her daddy!
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 4/25/2008 3:28:50 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4728
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jkdjr25
1. I don't go to church any more. I grew weary of hypocrites and the cliquish behaviour that made me an outcast everywhere I went.
You know if you are "Made and outcase EVERYWHERE you go" maybe a little self-examination might be in order.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 4/25/2008 3:29:06 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3312
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Really, we even have an All Bash Bush thread on this forum. Hello?
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2monkeysmom
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
Ronald Reagan professed that he was a Christian yet he didn't attend church, had a poor relationship with his children, engaged in adultery and premarital sex (check his wedding date vs the birth of his and Nancy's eldest).
It's very obvious what is going on here.
Reagan, GWB and McCain all get a free pass.
....while Obama is raked over the theological coals. First he was a Muslim...and now he belongs to a heretical church.....what's next?
I have never seen Reagan or GWB get a free pass. They both were hated no matter what they did.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? - 4/25/2008 4:04:29 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1169
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
Status: offline
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We do have freedom of religion, so if BO jumps up and says I'm a Buddhist Hindu, we say it doesnt matter. As Christians we should follow Christ. Who really can say what Bo is. But God. Who also really measures up? Who doesnt fall short?
People can walk thru life , not have an abortion, not be gay and not help the poor. Are they Christians?
_____________________________
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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