RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (Full Version)

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jbow -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 8:06:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Closie

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbow

As far as Obama being a Christian... he say's he is but he worries me because we know how a man's life is formed by his experiences as a small child and Obama spent two years, as a small child, in a Wahabi school. AS you may know, wahabism is the most radical from of islam. I am NOT saying that he is a muslim, I am saying that he must surely have some sort of personal psychological tie to them because of his childhood experiences. It really distresses me that so many people support him because of the way he looks and speaks. They talk about hope and change but when asked cannot articulate what they mean by hope and change... they just say... change. It's sad.

J



A Wahabi school trumps the power of the Holy Spirit? Wow...
How does Wahabi training compare to the training that the apostle Paul must have had that led him to treat Christians the way that he did? Any idea why Paul stopped persecuting Christians?
But more importantly, I wonder if John McCain is a Christian? No, I don't wonder. He, like me, has professed his faith in Jesus as his Savior. And that, for me, is enough welcome Him into the family of believers. I'm not the decider - Jesus is.

I thank God that I'm not judged on my actions before accepting Him. Heck, last I read in Romans, works weren't going to get me into heaven either. It's faith in Christ as your savior and repentance of sin that makes a person a Christian. Not race, not where you went to school, not what your mother wishes you'd believe, but simple faith in Christ. In Sen. Obama says he is a Christian, then I accept him as my brother in Christ.

I'm probably not going to vote for him for president, but I'll rejoice when we meet in heaven. My prayer is that Osama Bin Laden will be up there with us.


I did not say that he is not a Christian. I said that he say's that he is a Christian. I also said that he went to a Muslim school. All of that is true. You read more into it than I said.
For us not to look at who a person was or to consider who a person might be, when this person want's to be the leader of the free world we are remiss in our duties. We are not judging someone's faith... we are electing a leader.
The Christian/non-Christian part does not bother me. The leftist politics do bother me.

Most politicians, it seem's to me, are very flawed people... Christian or not so when it come's to one wanting my vote I consider everything. When it come's to one sitting in the pew with me they are then just my brother... there is a difference.


J



HansC -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 8:22:03 PM)

Closie, you asked for the source of the quote:

Source of Obama quote

The part I quoted is in the large paragraph part way down.

you asked:

quote:

what does that have to do with being president?


Do you believe that a person's beliefs will affect their decisions? Do you believe that it is OK for him to call himself a Christian when he actually believes that many ways lead to God? Could this possibly confuse people as to how to actually get saved?

Hans



lightshineon -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 8:47:19 PM)

I am shocked that more folks do not get upset over this churches website. We Christians have to unite in core of essential beliefs. This church does not. I am as worried about the dis-unity caused by not being at all like minded in the Christian Church. If you know scripture, in the least you can read the Churches web site, and see what a unscriptural church this is. So he is black, so Hillary is a woman and blonde. If they do hold the values of a Christian, according to scripture than we can judge by scripture. We have been given a great privilage to have a free society, to pick a leader. Why would we as Christians not take advantage of this, and use our unity to vote for Christian values? Are we that eassily decieved.



wing2000 -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 9:03:31 PM)

quote:

One, Obama has no record to look at. He has introduced one bill. It would give an additional .7% of our GDP to the UN to distribute to poor countries, (how do you spell corruption?). Liberals love to be generous with other peoples money.


Yes, the same UN program that George and Laura Bush are actively supporting?


quote:


As far as Obama being a Christian... he say's he is but he worries me because we know how a man's life is formed by his experiences as a small child and Obama spent two years, as a small child, in a Wahabi school. AS you may know, wahabism is the most radical from of islam. I am NOT saying that he is a muslim, I am saying that he must surely have some sort of personal psychological tie to them because of his childhood experiences. It really distresses me that so many people support him because of the way he looks and speaks. They talk about hope and change but when asked cannot articulate what they mean by hope and change... they just say... change. It's sad.


...and it's sad when Christians don't spend 60 seconds to check their facts...it is a Christian value to be speak the truth of one another yes?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp



lightshineon -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 9:06:56 PM)

Finger pointing back at you.
quote:

ORIGINAL: wing2000

quote:

One, Obama has no record to look at. He has introduced one bill. It would give an additional .7% of our GDP to the UN to distribute to poor countries, (how do you spell corruption?). Liberals love to be generous with other peoples money.


Yes, the same UN program that George and Laura Bush are actively supporting?


quote:


As far as Obama being a Christian... he say's he is but he worries me because we know how a man's life is formed by his experiences as a small child and Obama spent two years, as a small child, in a Wahabi school. AS you may know, wahabism is the most radical from of islam. I am NOT saying that he is a muslim, I am saying that he must surely have some sort of personal psychological tie to them because of his childhood experiences. It really distresses me that so many people support him because of the way he looks and speaks. They talk about hope and change but when asked cannot articulate what they mean by hope and change... they just say... change. It's sad.


...and it's sad when Christians don't spend 60 seconds to check their facts...it is a Christian value to be speak the truth of one another yes?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp



wing2000 -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 9:12:46 PM)

quote:

Finger pointing back at you.


Could you be more specific?



lightshineon -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 9:20:18 PM)

Yes, if I am understanding you, forgive if misunderstanding. Have you took sixty seconds to look at this church website? UnGodly and does not line up with the word of God.
quote:

ORIGINAL: wing2000

quote:

Finger pointing back at you.


Could you be more specific?



wing2000 -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 9:29:30 PM)

quote:

Yes, if I am understanding you, forgive if misunderstanding. Have you took sixty seconds to look at this church website? UnGodly and does not line up with the word of God.


I was referring to: " Obama spent two years, as a small child, in a Wahabi school. AS you may know, wahabism is the most radical from of islam."


As for the church, I think another poster already noted the following:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.


I think one needs more than sixty seconds to address each of the above points :)



lightshineon -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 9:42:12 PM)

How about the same gender connection groups? that did it for me in about three seconds. And folks this is the USA, not Africa.
quote:

ORIGINAL: wing2000

quote:

Yes, if I am understanding you, forgive if misunderstanding. Have you took sixty seconds to look at this church website? UnGodly and does not line up with the word of God.


I was referring to: " Obama spent two years, as a small child, in a Wahabi school. AS you may know, wahabism is the most radical from of islam."


As for the church, I think another poster already noted the following:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.


I think one needs more than sixty seconds to address each of the above points :)



Closie -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 9:59:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansC

Closie, you asked for the source of the quote:

Source of Obama quote

The part I quoted is in the large paragraph part way down.

you asked:

quote:

what does that have to do with being president?


Do you believe that a person's beliefs will affect their decisions? Do you believe that it is OK for him to call himself a Christian when he actually believes that many ways lead to God? Could this possibly confuse people as to how to actually get saved?

Hans


Thanks for showing me where you got the quote. However since that's a secondary source, how do we know that it's accurate? I'm in a strange position here. No matter his beliefs, I'm not going to vote for him. But to see such inaccurate and distorted info being espoused by people who profess Christianity is mind-boggling. If in fact he believes such a distorted view of Christianity, I'll add him to my prayer list as I'm sure you'll add him to yours.

Ronald Reagan believed that premarital sex and adultery was okay. How did that affect his presidency?

If my Christian values tell me that divorce is wrong, should I never vote for a divorced president?



PhunkD -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/18/2008 11:47:21 PM)

First of all, it makes sense for a non-Christian to go to a non-Christian school. Obama became a Christian as an adult.

As for the items that you posted from the church website, which items in particular are "ungodly" or "counter to the word of God?" How so?

quote:

ORIGINAL: wing2000

quote:

Yes, if I am understanding you, forgive if misunderstanding. Have you took sixty seconds to look at this church website? UnGodly and does not line up with the word of God.


I was referring to: " Obama spent two years, as a small child, in a Wahabi school. AS you may know, wahabism is the most radical from of islam."


As for the church, I think another poster already noted the following:

A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.


I think one needs more than sixty seconds to address each of the above points :)



HansC -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 2:05:51 AM)

The Church Obama goes to practices what J. Wright calls "Black Liberation Theology" "that started with Jim Cone in 1968, "

This comes from: Black Theology

"Most of the time, though, Cone was critical of the ideas of European theologians that were part of the American experience. He noted, for example, that many white Christians emphasized ideas like justification by faith and grace as central Christian themes. Against this he argued that, from the perspective of black Christians, the idea of liberation from oppression was much more important and had a much more immediate relevancy"

Black Liberation Theology



RightlyDividingWordOfTruth -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 2:35:09 AM)

OBAMA DID NOT GO TO A MUSLIM SCHOOL

Proof:

CNN Reporter: I've Been to Madrassas in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Obama's Indonesian Elementary School Is Nothing Like That. On January 22, CNN Reporter John Vause reported, "I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta, looking for what some are calling an Islamic Madrassa, like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan.. I've been to those Madrassas in Pakistan and Wolf, this school is nothing like that." [CNN, Situation Room, 1/22/07]
CNN News Report On School Obama Attended

Indonesian Embassy Says That Besuki School Attended by Barack Obama "Has Never Been an Islamic Madrassah Type of School." A letter from the Indonesian Embassy stated that "Sekolah Dasar Negeri Besuki in Menteng, Jakarta, Indonesia has always been a public school. It has never been an Islamic madrassa type of school." [Letter From Ambassador Sudjadnan Parnohadiningrat to Senator Barack Obama, 1/25/07]

Time's Joe Klein: Attacks On Obama's Elementary School Are "Laughable" Given the Moderate Form of Islam Practiced in Indonesia, Especially in Those Days." Time's Joe Klein wrote, "The effort to slime Barack Obama has begun in the slimiest possible way." Describing attacks on Obama's elementary school, Klein wrote, "Now, this is nonsense of course. Obama's stepfather was not a Muslim extremist (among other things, he worked for Shell Oil). Obama attended public school for two years in Indonesia, in addition to the two years he spent in catholic schools--although, as Obama's staff points out, Indonesia is a Muslim country, so the public schools undoubtedly reflect the dominant relgious culture. The notion that the Obama's school was a Wahabi madrasa is laughable, given the moderate form of Islam practiced in Indonesia, especially in those days." [Time Blog, 1/22/07]



RightlyDividingWordOfTruth -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 2:49:45 AM)

OBAMA IS A PRACTICING CHRISTIAN

Obama "Beckoning" Felt At Trinity United Church Of Christ, "Submitted Myself To His Will, And Dedicated Myself To Discovering His Truth And Carrying Out His Works." Obama said, "So one Sunday, I put on one of the few clean jackets I had, and went over to Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street on the South Side of Chicago. And I heard Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright deliver a sermon called "The Audacity of Hope." And during the course of that sermon, he introduced me to someone named Jesus Christ. I learned that my sins could be redeemed. I learned that those things I was too weak to accomplish myself, He would accomplish with me if I placed my trust in Him. And in time, I came to see faith as more than just a comfort to the weary or a hedge against death, but rather as an active, palpable agent in the world and in my own life. It was because of these newfound understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice, and not an epiphany. I didn't fall out in church, as folks sometimes do. The questions I had didn't magically disappear. The skeptical bent of my mind didn't suddenly vanish. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works." [Speech, 6/23/07] Link-Taken From Obama's Speech

Obama Held His Personal Bible When He Was Sworn-In As A U.S. Senator. "...Even before the makeshift office was up and running in the basement of a Senate building, even before he raised his hand Tuesday to take the oath of office as the junior senator from Illinois, Barack Obama was already a political rock star and a celebrated new face in Congress. He arrived Tuesday, his first official day in the Capitol.... In the circles he runs in now, celebrity status is checked at the cloakroom door...When it was finally time to take the oath, he held his personal Bible, as family from as far away as Kenya watched from the visitors' gallery above. His daughters, Malia, 6, and Sasha, 3, in velvet dresses and patent leather shoes, bounced in their chairs when he looked up and waved." [Los Angeles Times, 1/5/05]

Religious Leaders Respond To False Emails Circulating About Obama...Including his faith.
Religious Leaders Respond

Finally, Obama himself...

Responds At MSNBC Debate

Says He Is A Christian And Isn't Muslim

Obama Pledging Allegiance To The Flag



RightlyDividingWordOfTruth -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 3:09:53 AM)

Since it seems that some may see the pro-african american community stance the church has taken as "not being christian" or possibly anti-everything that is not black. Maybe a youtube link to a non-black person who is a minister at Obama's church will help to sway some fears. In short, the church isn't anti-anything not black.

Jane is a Minister at Barack Obama's church. She is speakng about her experience and time at Trinity United Church of Christ.
Jane Hoffman, Minister at Barack Obama's Church


Here is a link showing what Trinity Is About. What the members believe it is about at least. I don't see this in any way ANTI-Anything not black. Now, I can't say I could be a member at this church, because I like to attend a more mixed church culturally. I think this helps gives me tools to reach people outisde of my culture. But, I wouldn't mind visitng with my A.A brothers and sisters in Christ.
Trinity Information Video
Jane Hoffman is also apart of this video. Towards the End

Please..Please..Read, Listen, and Watch.



RightlyDividingWordOfTruth -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 3:14:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I am shocked that more folks do not get upset over this churches website. We Christians have to unite in core of essential beliefs. This church does not. I am as worried about the dis-unity caused by not being at all like minded in the Christian Church. If you know scripture, in the least you can read the Churches web site, and see what a unscriptural church this is. So he is black, so Hillary is a woman and blonde. If they do hold the values of a Christian, according to scripture than we can judge by scripture. We have been given a great privilage to have a free society, to pick a leader. Why would we as Christians not take advantage of this, and use our unity to vote for Christian values? Are we that eassily decieved.


I read the scriptures. Please direct me to the scriptures that will show me why this church is so un-Christian. I would really like to know. Also I am unsure what parts of this church are blatantly un-christian.

P.S. I read someone talking about partial birth abortions and gay marriage..I haven't found that information about the church, but I am looking.



RightlyDividingWordOfTruth -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 3:36:28 AM)

Regarding Baracks comments about there being many paths to God. Uhhhh...I can't help the brother out there.

All I can say is non of us have made it. NON of us have reached a 100. I know Oprah Winfrey was talking this same "Yick Yack" a few years ago. About different paths to the same God and no one is going to hell stuff. But, ya know what? God didn't leave her there in that same rhetoric. She has changed that story completely. GLORY TO GOD! You can't tell me God's word will return void. He said he will finish the good work he began in us. Hallelujah! God said it, that settles it, that's good enough for me.

Here is a link to that sad sad but truthful interview between FALSANI and BARACK. We are all on a journey. Let's be mindful of that.

Barack and Falsani



lightshineon -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 8:18:15 AM)

They are for homosexuality, if you look at thier connection groups. A group for same gender couples. That is not Godly. So the question is the church he attends balanced? No. Do I believe he is a Christian? Do not know. This African obsession at his church is not healthuy either. We are God's Rainbow, we have to leave ethnic causes back for the sake of Christanity, We are one. Does not mean we have to leave our heratige behind, but it shadows in the unity of the body.



lightshineon -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 8:19:21 AM)

NO she still spouts this yick yack, she is spiritual, I would not call her a believer. I alway believed Jesus is the only way, that is the major belief in Christanity. If someone does not believe that, then they are not a Christian/ It is a fundamental truth. In twenty years being a believer, and he has not picked that one up?
quote:

ORIGINAL: RightlyDividingWordOfTruth

Regarding Baracks comments about there being many paths to God. Uhhhh...I can't help the brother out there.

All I can say is non of us have made it. NON of us have reached a 100. I know Oprah Winfrey was talking this same "Yick Yack" a few years ago. About different paths to the same God and no one is going to hell stuff. But, ya know what? God didn't leave her there in that same rhetoric. She has changed that story completely. GLORY TO GOD! You can't tell me God's word will return void. He said he will finish the good work he began in us. Hallelujah! God said it, that settles it, that's good enough for me.

Here is a link to that sad sad but truthful interview between FALSANI and BARACK. We are all on a journey. Let's be mindful of that.

Barack and Falsani



RightlyDividingWordOfTruth -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 10:03:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

They are for homosexuality, if you look at thier connection groups. A group for same gender couples. That is not Godly. So the question is the church he attends balanced? No. Do I believe he is a Christian? Do not know. This African obsession at his church is not healthuy either. We are God's Rainbow, we have to leave ethnic causes back for the sake of Christanity, We are one. Does not mean we have to leave our heratige behind, but it shadows in the unity of the body.


Well, I sitll have seen where the church says they are for homosexuality. Also, I refuse to leave my ethinicity in the wind because someone feels it is not Christian. I would go as far to sy that person isn't Christian.

Leave ethinic causes back for the sake of Christianity??? Sorry that's not going to happen. I feel like I would be going against the will of God for my life. God made me who I am for a purpose and I will always celebrate my peoples rich history and all that God has done for my people through remembering and celebrating my culture. I will always use my culture to talk about how good God is and how his mercy endureth forever. Point Blank.

You can't tell a Jewish person to forget their history their culture for the sake of Christianity. They will remember and celebrate all that God has done for them and their culture.

OPRAH, are you sure? Well regardless, I still believe that we are a work in progress. I believe alot of the stuff said on this board by long standing members shows signs of immaturity and could be considered 'not Christian" as wel. However, I am smarter than that. I know I have a long way to go in Christ and obviously my brothers and sisters do as well.

God judges the heart. Let him finish the work. And let us not judge people in the mean time. Because this right here is judging.

I believe God can fix this situation too. It is scary that he believes in that diff path philosopy....[:'(].



hfr -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 10:49:04 AM)

Having watched and listened to this mysterious man, as well as observing those who closely follow him, I would comment:
He's Christian, He's Muslim;
He's black, He's white;
He's poor, He's wealthy;
He's a family man, He's a man from a broken family;
He's baby-faced and innocent, He's a man of great authority;

In short, He's anything you want him to be. Clear as mud?



Pamela2008 -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 3:30:38 PM)

Hi, I just wanted to say that I believe in what you said. And I am also amazed by his grace. I am also very proud of you. and I want to say thank you. Pamela.



Mrs.Above_All -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 3:37:15 PM)

Yep, UCC is the one of the most liberal denominations out there who believe that our life of faith is dependent on our changing times and cultures. They were the first denomination to ordain an openly homosexual minister. They believe in human rights and that includes the right to abort, etc... So if Obama carries those same standards I have no doubt that it will shake this country. And in my honest opinion, it is those standards that provide as the foundation of political correctness.



lightshineon -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 4:13:28 PM)

Christian Knowing Jesus is the only way, is the test to see if you are really a Christian. That is not a work in progress, that is where you know you are saved are not. God does not expect you to give up you hertiage, but he wants you to be a Christian first, and a ethnic concerns to be next. You are right, God made you who you are and you are special in that, but, it can all work togather in Gods Rainbow. As far as BO than, he needs to read the scripture " Where Jesus ask his Disciples " Who do you say that I am?" Who does BO say Jesus is?



Closie -> RE: Is Barack Obama a Christian? (2/19/2008 5:43:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Christian Knowing Jesus is the only way, is the test to see if you are really a Christian. That is not a work in progress, that is where you know you are saved are not. God does not expect you to give up you hertiage, but he wants you to be a Christian first, and a ethnic concerns to be next. You are right, God made you who you are and you are special in that, but, it can all work togather in Gods Rainbow. As far as BO than, he needs to read the scripture " Where Jesus ask his Disciples " Who do you say that I am?" Who does BO say Jesus is?


So if Obama had a Damasicus Road revelation tomorrow, and accepted that Jesus was the only way and all non-believers were doomed to spend eternity outside the presence of our Lord, joined a Southern Baptist church, would you vote for him?



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