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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 11:42:52 AM
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kernsfamily
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
It's interesting to follow the responses on this thread. I am curious, in terms of what would cause one to either attend a church or not attend a church, how much of a priority is a certain style of music?
Good question.
For me, personally, music STYLE is WAY down on the list of "priorities" there are many other things that I care about...hymns, whether they be old or new....modern songs (as long as the repetition is kept to a minimum...our church sings ALOT of great 'modern' songs that are not repeitious at all, and are right up there with any other song sung in church........WHATEVER the music, it should be because that's the direction God has led the Minister of Music ....."Just because we've always done it that way" is NOT a suitable reason for using a particular style.
With my wife, and her parents, if it's not done THEIR way, then they likely aren't much interested in that church....
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 11:43:11 AM
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crankius
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
you totally missed the point I stated as to WHY alot of churches do not have books.....we do not want limit ourselves to JUST those songs that are in that ONE song book......whether they be other hymns (can ALL possible hymns be put in one book? 4 books?....or, whether they be NEW songs that were just composed....)
you mentioned READING the music...well, that's great....if the VERY SAME music is played EXACTLY the same way time and time again.....(we sing some old hymns, but with new arrangements (which are done by the guy who plays piano)...that would render the "music" in any book almost useless)....
I see nothing getting in the way of "real" community, fellowship and worship at all....(that's determined by the heart of the people...and their fellowship with God)...and, it can be "real" or not...regardless of how the music is played...what music is played...or, where the music/lyrics are read from....
kernsfamily,
That's great.
I don't expect you to have the same perspective that I do. It's ok. I'm just answering the OP according to my opinion.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 11:44:40 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3749
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I'll admit that the tunes of some hymns are musically boring today, but their messages are deeper, higher, and wider by miles than some of the praise choruses we have.
I am finding that praise choruses don't make up the bulk of music in many churches, even contemporary ones. Instead, much of recent worship music has deep and powerful lyrics.
“The Glories of Calvary”
Music & Lyrics by Steve & Vicki Cook
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 11:47:56 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1144
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
you mentioned READING the music...well, that's great....if the VERY SAME music is played EXACTLY the same way time and time again.....(we sing some old hymns, but with new arrangements (which are done by the guy who plays piano)...that would render the "music" in any book almost useless)....
That's assuming you could learn it well from the praise team. At our church, the alto part overpowers the rest of the voices which makes learning the song without music rather difficult. 
Does God really care about the Alto part vs. the Tenor vs. the Bass or Soprano? Or, can a congregation just SING?
Our congregational singing sounds no different from other churches that I've been to that have their music books in the pews to sing from.....and, we don't use music books....
dare i say it, in my experience, churches who do use hymnals often sound "dead".....perhaps your experience is different....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:01:34 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4236
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
It's interesting to follow the responses on this thread. I am curious, in terms of what would cause one to either attend a church or not attend a church, how much of a priority is a certain style of music?
Eph 5:18b-20 ...Be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I like a church that provides opportunities for people to share in music. Sometimes, when a church has a big music program, only the select few who are part of the music program get to participate in Eph 5:18-20, while everyone else watches. So, we tend to stay away from churches with big music programs (though we have attended a couple churches with a big music programs).
Biblical teaching and doctrine come first for us. The music is secondary.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:07:07 PM
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HisCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisCovenant
quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
you mentioned READING the music...well, that's great....if the VERY SAME music is played EXACTLY the same way time and time again.....(we sing some old hymns, but with new arrangements (which are done by the guy who plays piano)...that would render the "music" in any book almost useless)....
That's assuming you could learn it well from the praise team. At our church, the alto part overpowers the rest of the voices which makes learning the song without music rather difficult.
Does God really care about the Alto part vs. the Tenor vs. the Bass or Soprano? Or, can a congregation just SING?
Our congregational singing sounds no different from other churches that I've been to that have their music books in the pews to sing from.....and, we don't use music books....
A part of your point is that books are unnecessary to learning a song and singing it. Singers who use books have the opportunity to know the songs better and to chose a part that fits in their range. They have an opportunity to offer God their best.
Having said that, I have seen those who rely too much on their songbooks and use them to hid behind instead of using them to praise God. There are difference between singing without musical notation, using a song book properly, and using a songbook wrongly. I have experienced what you are saying.
I don't for one moment think that God cares whether we are singing only the melody... I do think He wants us to offer our best to Him. That may be a "joyful noise" that is off pitch and not the correct timing. However, as one who is able to offer more than a "noise," it is dismaying to me to not have that opportunity becasue I am unable to learn the song well following a praise team where the sound guy is snoozing.
Our congregation doesn't use songbooks, either. It doesn't prevent me from worshipping, but it does prevent me from offering God my best along with my heart. It can be a distraction if I am trying to follow a song I don't know and leaves me as a spectator instead of a worshipper.
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-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:07:19 PM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Biblical teaching and doctrine come first for us. The music is secondary.
shouldn't our worship music be an overflow of our doctrine? or at least compliment the teaching?
it would seem that those churches that keep this in mind do a much better job of serving the body
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:09:09 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Again, I'm not saying there is anything inherently wrong in doing those things, but I have concerns about what all those things bring to the church as a whole. In addition to this, I also have concerns about what it does to individuals. I have heard it offline AND have read it here in the threads . . . "I'm performing Sunday at church." This bothers me because that's not what church is about. Church very definitely is about giving to Our Lord and indeed giving Him our best; in fact, every aspect of each of our lives should portray this - giving Our Lord our best. However, one does not perform for Our Lord. People perform for other people.
Sometimes I wonder with all the slick power point presentations, all the pretty choir robes and whatnot if "we" are going to church to worship Our Lord and gather / fellowship with believers or if we are going to be entertained?
Do please note that I did not say nor imply that all people who are up front singing or playing an instrument while facing the congregation has that particular mindset. Some people know exactly what they're doing and why they're doing it.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I don't really like the white screen and projectors. Given the choice between projector screens and not, I'd much rather sing from a book, and I really don't understand why that would ruffle anyone's feathers. Actually, during "Worship" of a church service, I keep m eyes closed; it's easier for me to block out all the activity going on and focus on Our Lord. For those songs of which I don't know the words, I choose to simply listen - again, with my eyes closed.
I don't understand the concept of clapping neither. At least not for people. Clapping for Our Lord, yes. There is a big difference between the two. Clapping for people during church seems, to me, to reinforce the "performance" attitude. I realize that there are usually exceptions to everything; and that does include clapping for people during service. But even then, is one clapping because the song spiritually spoke to them or is it clapping because, well that's what people do when one finishes performing?
Do please note that all of what I've said above is contained to "church service" - it is not to be applied to concerts, and such; that's a totally different thing.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I very much like what Stellaluna said. Worshipping God isn't about an hour each week at church. Worshipping God can and should happen at anytime and anyplace; regardless of how many people there are or are not around at the time. It's the same with thanking Our Lord. Why wait until a meal time to thank Him for His myriad and continuous Blessings in our lives?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The places where I personally have been ministered to the most or the places where I have entered the deepest worship to Our Lord have been at the very simplest level. That's not to be confused with not giving Our Lord our best. Quite often, our simplest IS our best to Him.
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:13:10 PM
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HisCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
Again, I'm not saying there is anything inherently wrong in doing those things, but I have concerns about what all those things bring to the church as a whole. In addition to this, I also have concerns about what it does to individuals. I have heard it offline AND have read it here in the threads . . . "I'm performing Sunday at church." This bothers me because that's not what church is about. Church very definitely is about giving to Our Lord and indeed giving Him our best; in fact, every aspect of each of our lives should portray this - giving Our Lord our best. However, one does not perform for Our Lord. People perform for other people.
I agree. It is troubling to know that the church holds you in high esteem vocally when your purpose is to glorify God. It's not just the ones up front who get off track. It's dismaying to hear the congregation tell you they are your biggest fan and make no mention of the message from God in your song or the way it helped them worship.
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-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:25:12 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
It's interesting to follow the responses on this thread. I am curious, in terms of what would cause one to either attend a church or not attend a church, how much of a priority is a certain style of music?
Doctrine has held priority for me in choosing a church. Music hasn't been a major consideration. When I began attending my current church in the mid 80s, all congregational singing was out of a hymnal. Now we have 2 morning services, one blended and the other contemporary. We also have choir & orchestra in the first service but a praise team and combo in the second.
Interestingly, during these years of change, we've had people complain and/or leave because we are either too old-fashioned or too modern.
Some people would gripe if you put them in a room and told them they could have all the hundred dollar bills they could count in a day. (Some of them would just goof off after you left them alone to count.)
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:28:42 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4236
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
The places where I personally have been ministered to the most or the places where I have entered the deepest worship to Our Lord have been at the very simplest level. That's not to be confused with not giving Our Lord our best. Quite often, our simplest IS our best to Him.
I find this to be true, also.
And I agree with your "performance" comments. It's very hard to not feel it is a performance when so much effort is put in to the production of it all.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:29:46 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
In addition to this, I also have concerns about what it does to individuals. I have heard it offline AND have read it here in the threads . . . "I'm performing Sunday at church." This bothers me because that's not what church is about. Church very definitely is about giving to Our Lord and indeed giving Him our best; in fact, every aspect of each of our lives should portray this - giving Our Lord our best. However, one does not perform for Our Lord. People perform for other people.
My Minister of Music (and he IS a minister and not just in music) once said, "When we gather in the sanctuary, there is an audience of only One and He's the one that matters."
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:38:00 PM
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elastic
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From: NYC
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quote:
It's interesting to follow the responses on this thread. I am curious, in terms of what would cause one to either attend a church or not attend a church, how much of a priority is a certain style of music?
i think that most of the time, (certainly not all, but most of the time) the music is a reflection of the pastor also. What i mean is, a more contemporary musically styled church would probably have a dynamic pastor, one that is not muted or stuck in tradition for tradition's sake, one that can change with the times but still be biblical and relevant.
if that makes any sense.
i can't really see an old-time fire and brimstone type preacher preaching at a church where a full band with drums and electric guitars are used for the worship sets.
kwim? uh, i'm not explaining this very well.
long story short, i think that usually the Pastor and the Worship Leader are on the same page when it comes to music, otherwise there would be big problems.
eta...since i didn't even answer the question...  ... Music moves me. for me, the worship time is very a important part of the service. NOT as important as the preaching, but it is still important. I will always choose the message over the music, but very often, the music is just a reflection of that pastor,,,so the two are intertwined. Usually, if I like the pastor, I like the music in that church as well.
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"You are so right elastic" ~Qtman
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 12:59:55 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
One thought that comes immediately to my mind is that for all their teachings, I don't particularly remember Jesus or Paul ever mentioning a particular kind of music. I am sure their have been times I have cared too much about the style of music I was singing or listening too - anyone else?
Yes, I believe there have been times in my life when I haved worshipped the worship music more that the One we are to worship, I sadly say.
I do believe that music has become a sort of subtle God in some churches.
Jesus and the disciples sang a hymn as they went out towards the Garden of Gethsename. The other day I was pondering what could have been that hymn and did it give our Saviour courage?
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~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 1:40:41 PM
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elastic
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From: NYC
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quote:
Jesus and the disciples sang a hymn as they went out towards the Garden of Gethsename. The other day I was pondering what could have been that hymn and did it give our Saviour courage?
and yet they still fell asleep....i'm sure that even knowing that they wouldn't be able to stay awake, even knowing that they were imperfect humans, Jesus still found comfort in the song, and was pleased that they sang not only with him, but to him.
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"You are so right elastic" ~Qtman
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RE: Do we care too much about music? - 2/19/2008 2:17:45 PM
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HisCovenant
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... And longer.
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-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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