RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (Full Version)

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drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/7/2008 4:08:22 PM)

quote:

drmark, I apologize for not having read the entire thread as I must leave right away, but are you implying that Christians no longer sin?
I am not "implying" anything. I am reading in God's Word that Christians do not have to keep on sinning until they day they physically die. I also am reading that people who continually, persistently, and deliberately keep on sinning are not children of God. This is not rocket science, folks - it's by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit that we can stop sinning!



Nothingman -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/7/2008 4:15:06 PM)

yes...no one "has to" sin. But we all sin. Even saints, the Pope, and Luther. You really think Christians are able to stop sinning, in an absolute sense?



drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/7/2008 4:58:33 PM)

Who cares what I think, Nothingman! God tells us we can stop sinning, by His grace and the power of His Spirit. I believe Him. What others do is between them and God.



Nothingman -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/7/2008 7:17:02 PM)

I care what you think. 5 people can read the same Scripture, the same Bible, and come to vastly different ideas of what is meant. Why else go to a forum and have these discussions...?



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 12:11:30 AM)

These people in today's world who claim they are without sin don't walk on water.



drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 11:26:28 AM)

quote:

5 people can read the same Scripture, the same Bible, and come to vastly different ideas of what is meant.
Vastly different ideas do not define the correct meaning of God's Word, Nothingman.

quote:

These people in today's world who claim they are without sin don't walk on water.
Correct, Eph4_32! Living in Christian perfection has nothing to do with walking on water. It has everything to do with God's love, grace, and power working in our lives!



Nothingman -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 12:32:34 PM)

quote:

Vastly different ideas do not define the correct meaning of God's Word, Nothingman.



Good, you're gradually catching on to my point. There is one truth, and with those 5 people's interpretation, perhaps through discourse and engagement with eachother's reading of the text, they are able to shake off the improper reading and get nearer to what the Scripture is meaning...

I don't see what your "issue" is.. ?



drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 2:04:21 PM)

quote:

I don't see what your "issue" is.. ?
Then obviously you have not caught on to my point. I'll try one more time:

post #18 - Sammy_S makes a bold and unsubstantiated pronouncement that "man is always sinning".

post #19 - I ask Sammy to explain 1 John 3 wherein God states that those who continue sinning are not living in Christ, have not seen or known Him, and are not born of God as His children.

post #20 - Gloryandgrace responds with a derogatory generalization that anyone who claims not to be always sinning is merely pretending "Im better than you gloating" and are not "true Christians" and "have outdone Jesus Himself". I address these spurious accusations in post #24.

post #25 - Nothingman misunderstands my position to imply that Christians no longer sin. I have never claimed this unscriptural position.

post #27 - Nothingman makes a contradictory claim that "no one has to sin" but "we all sin" anyway, throwing around the phrase "in an absolute sense", for good measure.

post #28 - I make my final point that personal opinion and human interpretation are worthless when it comes to believing, accepting, and acting on the promises of God. He tells us we may stop sinning and I, for one, take Him at His Word! THAT is "my issue".



restored08 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 2:06:27 PM)

I'm sorry but sanctifying is making free from sin. You grow in love for God in worshipping Him, learning of Him and having a relationship and communing with Him. If you are lover of self or men that's what you have made your God. You worship what you love. No man is ever free from sin. We strive for perfection is Christ and perfection in Christ simply means purity in Him. And purity is a process. To make something pure it first has to be clean. To be clean a purging has to take place. Just because your saved doesn't mean you are instantly blameless. You can commit unrighteous acts without even being aware of the act. That's why you strive daily and pray daily to have a mind and heart like Christ. To know Him is to love Him. To know him is to learn of His will and His ways.

1John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



restored08 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 2:30:04 PM)

1 John 3:4-10
4) who ever commits sin disobeys the law because to sin is to disobey the law.
5) Jesus came to take way our sins and in Him there was no sin.
6) if you abide in Christ who never sinned and who evers sins haven't known nor seen Him.
78) He that commiths sin is of the devil, for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose Jesus came that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9) who ever is born of God does not commit sin, for his Seed remained in him that he could not sin, because he was born of God.
10)In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.



restored08 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 2:35:01 PM)

If five people read the same scripture, the same bible and all have different interpretations of it them someone is not filled with the Holy Spirit. We are not to lean to our own understanding of anything. But instead are suppose to lean on and listen to the spirit of the Lord to receive revelation of what the scripture means and how we are to apply it to our daily lives.



drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 2:35:26 PM)

quote:

No man is ever free from sin.
So how do you, restored08, understand these verses from God's Word that I posted in #7:
quote:

I John also tells us that the Blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin (1:7) and all unrighteousness (1:9). John wrote his letter so we will not sin (2:1). If we obey His Word, God's Love is made complete in us (2:5) and we must walk as Jesus did (2:6). If we love each other, there is nothing in us to make us stumble (2:10). Everyone who does what is right has been born of God (2:29). No one who knows Christ and is born of God continues to sin (3:6 and 3:9). Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows Him (4:7). Love is made comlete among us, because in this world, we are like Jesus (4:17). Anyone born of God does not continue to sin (5:18).


quote:

We strive for perfection is Christ and perfection in Christ simply means purity in Him. And purity is a process. To make something pure it first has to be clean. To be clean a purging has to take place.
Actually, we do not "strive" for anything. It is by God's grace and the power of the Holy Spirit that our hearts are perfected in His Love. Our role is only to live daily in Christ's perfect Love. A process must begin with an initial event and you have correctly identified that initial cleansing as the beginning of sanctification.

quote:

Just because your saved doesn't mean you are instantly blameless.
I find at least 12 NT references to being blameless and none of them indicate it must be a gradual process reserved for the day we die. Indeed, several clearly state we are to be blameless right NOW!

quote:

You can commit unrighteous acts without even being aware of the act.
Does God hold us accountable for actions we don't even know we are doing?



restored08 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 4:33:35 PM)

the quote: no man is ever free from sin.

1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves.
We commit unrighteous acts daily in some form or another.

my understanding on the scriptures you sent
1 John 1:7
If I walk in Jesus Christ, and have fellowship with Him and His blood, it (the blood of Jesus) cleanses me from all sins.
My sins have been blotted out because of Christ Jesus but only if I believe and receive that.

1 John 1:8
No man is perfect, their existed only one perfect man that didn't know sin and that was Christ.

1 John 1:9
A closed mouth doesn't get fed. If you don't confess your sins and ask for forgiveness and ask to be clean it will never be granted.
But we all know that we ask for forgiveness because we know He will forgive us 70 times 7. We try to escape or replace forgiveness for repentence.
2:1
example. I'm telling you where sin will get you so that you will fear God and not sin.
2:2 But if you are a sinner know that Jesus was given an offering for me that I will walk in Him and sin no more. But this doesn't mean that I won't do wrong again.
2:5 If you hide the word in your heart and hold it sacred, in him is the love of God is made perfect.
2:10 Simply if we say we have not sinned we say God is a liar.
2:29 If you know that you are righteous(walking according to God's will, ways and laws) then you know that everyone that does the same is born of him.
3:6 If we abide in Him we sin not and who ever sins have not seen him neither known him. If you stay kingdom focused we wouldn't commit unrighteous acts. Simply to know him is to love him and to love him is to keep his commandments. But we all fall short.
4:7, 17, are self explanatory.
All of these are self explanatory. They all speak of those that are obedient to his word and that are righteous.

And I do think we strive daily. Striving is simply fighting, waring against the flesh and laboring fervently to live according to his will.
It's by God grace that you are allowed to live another day. Grace is a pardon.
To perfect the heart a transformation takes place.
When I say being blameless. We all have matters of the heart that are not pure. When I got saved I did not become blameless instantly. Because after that happened I had to be baptized and filled with His Holy Spirit. I'm having to be purged and cleansed daily for thoughts, actions and things that I let come out of my mouth. But I do know what you're saying. I am calling those things to be as though they are. But I still have to decrease self and let God perform in me that perfect work.

We are held accountable for all that we do. Those that know better will be punished with a many stripes as compared to those that don't know.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 8:00:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:

These people in today's world who claim they are without sin don't walk on water.

Correct, Eph4_32! Living in Christian perfection has nothing to do with walking on water. It has everything to do with God's love, grace, and power working in our lives!


God's love, grace and power work in all Christians' lives.

We are partially conformed to Christ in this life. When will we be like Him? When we see Him! In this life, we know only in part, and prophesy only in part. So our conformity to Christ is imperfect.

1 Corinthians 13
12For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1 John 3
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

God's love, grace and power work in our lives now, but His work is not complete until we see Him face to face.

Philippians 1
6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:



drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/8/2008 11:23:43 PM)

quote:

All of these are self explanatory. They all speak of those that are obedient to his word and that are righteous.
Apparently these verses are not so "self-explanatory" since several self-professed Christians are claiming to always be sinning. How do you resolve this contradiction?

quote:

God's love, grace and power work in all Christians' lives.
Then why do some Christians claim they are always sinning?



restored08 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/9/2008 8:16:46 AM)

quote:

[All these are self explanatory. They all speak of those that are obedient to his will and his ways.]

I don't know what is meant by self professed Christians, but a contradiction cannot be resolved. A contradiction is just what it is. To contradict something that means you don't agree with it. It is a matter of opinion. And when you speak about the Gospel of Jesus Christ you either believe it or you don't. Those that contradict it simply don't believe it or want to use scripture to justify themselves in doing wrong. Walking in Christ is a self thing. It's a personal walk. No one person can walk the walk for someone else. I suggest get totally right and stop stratteling (excuse my spelling) the fence.



drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/9/2008 9:25:26 AM)

quote:

Walking in Christ is a self thing. It's a personal walk. No one person can walk the walk for someone else. I suggest get totally right and stop stratteling (excuse my spelling) the fence.
Totally, completely, 100% wrong! Walking in Christ is the exact opposite of a "self thing" because it is ALL about Him and nothing about me. Jesus walks my walk every moment of every day that I let Him and when He does, I love God with all my heart, soul, and mind.



restored08 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/9/2008 9:36:26 AM)

[
quote:

[Jesus walks my walk every moment of every day.

Jesus is not walking your walk. You are walking His walk. Take up your cross and follow me You follow His path.

Can you decrease me? Can you control how I treat my enemies, loved ones, or neighbors? Can you be submissive for me?
I have a free will, because my God is a free will God. He allows me to have that. It's what I choose that governs how I live. I choose to live a life, you do not choose this for me or any of my other actions. That's why I say it's a personal walk. Anything that personal it's means it's mine.

Jesus is your guide. You can say that His Spirit walks with you because His Spirit is with you at all times but He doesn't walk for you.
Psalms 48:14 For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death.
Luke 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet int the way of peace.
John 16:13 When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:



drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/9/2008 5:55:21 PM)

quote:

Jesus is not walking your walk. You are walking His walk.
I'm sorry, restored08, that's not how it works for me! I can only walk Christ's walk as He walks in, by and through me. Maybe you've reached a spiritual level of independence that I have not, but I'll keep on doing it His way as long as He tells me to.



Nothingman -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/9/2008 6:16:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

All of these are self explanatory. They all speak of those that are obedient to his word and that are righteous.
Apparently these verses are not so "self-explanatory" since several self-professed Christians are claiming to always be sinning. How do you resolve this contradiction?

quote:

God's love, grace and power work in all Christians' lives.
Then why do some Christians claim they are always sinning?


Because they are. "Our best is but filthy ****s." Our most pure acts and thoughts before God are still fundamentally laden with pride and sin.



restored08 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/10/2008 7:59:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

I'm sorry, restored08, that's not how it works for me! I can only walk Christ's walk as He walks in, by and through me. Maybe you've reached a spiritual level of independence that I have not, but I'll keep on doing it His way as long as He tells me to.


Well drmark, if your way is working for you, then who am I to knock it? I just want everyone including myself to continue seeking the truth about His Word. I pray daily for a fresh annointing and revelations in the Spirit.
But, I do know that "I CAN'T MAKE ANYONE BE IN MY SEASON." Neither can I make my myself be in yours.
But I do have a question. Do you believe that if one way [/u] works, it's the right way? Or is there still room for change and improvement?



drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/11/2008 6:00:29 AM)

quote:

Because they are. "Our best is but filthy ****s." Our most pure acts and thoughts before God are still fundamentally laden with pride and sin.
I'm sorry, Nothingman, but you will have to count me out of your "we" and "our" when you talk like that! My best is the heart, mind, soul, and strength of Christ living in me, with me, and through me. It is His Love that is perfected in my heart and when I do my best in, with, and through Him, I AM RIGHTEOUS! There is no room for "fundamentally laden with pride and sin" in the heart of the sanctified Believer, because the righteousness of Christ is imparted as well as imputed. We are not only saved in our sins, we are saved from sin. Our standing with Christ must be the same as our state in Christ. This is the promise of holiness (1 Thess 5:23-24) and I stand on it - by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit.

quote:

But I do have a question. Do you believe that if one way works, it's the right way? Or is there still room for change and improvement?
As you have already stated, restored08, we can only live the one life God graciously gives us. His one way for our individual life must be the only right way! But that has nothing to do with foregoing "room for change and improvement". Salvation and sanctification are just the beginning - growth in grace and walking daily with the Lord in all the Light He gives us is a never-ending process until He takes us Home!



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/11/2008 7:59:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:

God's love, grace and power work in all Christians' lives.
Then why do some Christians claim they are always sinning?


Why do some Christians claim they are entirely holy?

People do not define sin exactly the same as other people do.
Some people recognize sins that other people can't even see in themselves. What is believed to be sin to one person is not recognized as sin by another.

Luke 18
9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Luke 3
16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

1 Corinthians 10
12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Galatians 5
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Matthew 5
27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart


Psalm 139
23Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

24And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

Hebrews 3
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Proverbs 28
26He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.

I am on medication following surgery right now. I will try to look at this again later. Please bear with me.



drmark -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/11/2008 10:14:43 AM)

quote:

Why do some Christians claim they are entirely holy?
Because God has made them holy! Is there any Scripture to refute this possible work of grace and divine power in a Believer's life? Please share one if you wish, Eph4_32.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: So You Are Saying We Can't Love God With All Our Heart, Soul, and Mind (4/12/2008 12:29:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Why do some Christians claim they are entirely holy?
Because God has made them holy! Is there any Scripture to refute this possible work of grace and divine power in a Believer's life?


We are talking about when this happens, not if it happens.

1 John 3
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Peter 1
16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.



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