RE: Kicka, part 3 (Full Version)

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SweetLittleErin -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 12:13:31 PM)

I made the trek too, just nothing thought provoking to say, just reading along.



peace77 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 12:29:00 PM)

I'm here too.

Just not saying much.

I'm having a difficult time dealing with some family members. It would be so nice if we could have relationships like other people but it doesn't seem possible. They don't believe anything I say. They won't communicate with me unless they want something. I don't feel respected. When I was younger, I tried to make others happy but I think I'm getting too old to deal with their nonsense.


Anne



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 1:17:44 PM)

change of subject......

over in the homeschool folder there is more on this, but just last week there was a ruling in a court in CA that hsing is illegal in that state. They are now dealing with appeals, etc. Anyway I wanted to see what everyone over here would say to this...cause the thread over in the hs folder is pretty specific (because of the folder being for hs SUPPORT).

HERE is the court ruling.
HERE is an article on it.
HERE is the hs folder discussion that has a few more articles and such listed in there



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 2:32:39 PM)

I've never really been a fan of homeschooling unless the parent is qualified to teach and has the right certifications (not sure what all goes into that). Otherwise, I don't like it. That doesn't mean that the person doing the hsing can't do it; I just think people should have the right degrees and certifications to do things like teaching. I'm the same way with a few other things in life-- namely education and the medical field. I don't really tell people that unless they ask for my opinion though.

Something about it being literally made illegal bothers me though. [8|]



Nicole_Michelle -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 2:40:10 PM)

I don't like it how they want to make homeschooling illegal. [8|] I think it is ridiculous. Just as long as children get the right teachings at home and get a chance to meet with and play with other children I see no problem in homeschooling. Sometimes it is hard to find a decent school in your neighbourhood or city and homeschooling may be the only option.

I would only homeschool if there weren't any good schools around. And I would make sure to let my kids join groups or clubs if they wished so they could meet other children their age with their interests.



Miss Giggles -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 2:46:48 PM)

I don't think homeschooling should be made illegal. I think there are some people that shouldn't homeschool, because they wouldn't be as qualified in the harder subjects. But in the same token, there are some bad teachers in the schools as well.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 2:55:14 PM)

I am glad God doesn't require "teaching certificates" before He allows us to even have kids, because believe me, more teaching goes on "before compulsory age of school" then some people care to believe. I have the ability to teach my child to eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, learn ABC's, numbers, and many other basic skills....but because I haven't gone to college and don't have a piece of paper that cost thousands of dollars I don't have the right to teach them anything related to "school"? Makes NO sense to me!!!! I AM the parent.....I HAVE the right to do whatever with my kids and choose whatever form of education I feel will benefit them!!!



Nicole_Michelle -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 2:58:43 PM)

Well Sarah, you are obviously qualified to teach. You love your children enough to know how and want to educate them. [:)] And you are a very smart lady! [;)]

But some people are no doubt not qualified to teach at home. And those are the people that should just have their children at school. If I knew I was not qualified I would take courses first to be able to teach my children because I would not want to "hold them back" because of my being not so smart and not being able to teach them anything. [8D]



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 3:00:44 PM)

quote:

Well Sarah, you are obviously qualified to teach.

well, according to some people I am not because I don't have a ten thousand dollar paper on my wall from a university saying I have the "right stuff" to teach my own kids!!!! THAT kind of attitude really annoys me!!!



solo_soprano22 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 3:08:58 PM)

I was just stating my opinion since the question was asked. (It's not like this is the hs support forum-- there I'd only expect no disagreement about it.)

I think some of my dislike and requirement of certification is from seeing parents who don't know how to do certain subjects, then their children don't learn it either. (I know plenty of people like this and their children are the ones who suffered.) But then again, I like for people to reach the highest level that's required for them to do whatever it is they're about to do. No different than any other field (in my opinion).

Maybe if there were some way of making sure each homeschooling parent could do it adequately I'd think differently. Right now, I'm against homeschooling unless there are strict requirements met. Just my $.02. We're all different people with different opinions for diverse reasons.



Nicole_Michelle -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 3:10:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2

quote:

Well Sarah, you are obviously qualified to teach.

well, according to some people I am not because I don't have a ten thousand dollar paper on my wall from a university saying I have the "right stuff" to teach my own kids!!!! THAT kind of attitude really annoys me!!!


That kind of attitude would annoy me too! I don't like it how people think that if you don't have a degree you are not qualified. People are smart without degrees. Some people are smarter than a person with a degree. God made us the way we are and if people really think that you can't teach your children because you didn't throw away money to get a piece of paper then that is their problemo. [;)]



LaurainAL -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 3:11:26 PM)

Of course you are qualified Sarah.

My SIL homeschools her kids and she has done a wonderful job. My only concern is now that her son is 13, is she going to be able to teach him anatomy, biology, calculus, etc....all the while teaching her 3 other children on different levels. I am not a homeschool expert so I don't judge. Maybe she has it all figured out so I am certainly going to give her the benefit of the doubt.

And, I think the idea of making HS illegal is absurd.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 3:20:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaurainAL

Of course you are qualified Sarah.

My SIL homeschools her kids and she has done a wonderful job. My only concern is now that her son is 13, is she going to be able to teach him anatomy, biology, calculus, etc....all the while teaching her 3 other children on different levels. I am not a homeschool expert so I don't judge. Maybe she has it all figured out so I am certainly going to give her the benefit of the doubt.

actually a "smart" parent knows their limits and goes to get help when they can't do something. I know many hs parents that do that. I also know many public school parents that do that with their child, and those are students that ARE taught day in and day out by "qualified" people with ten thousand dollar papers on their walls.

Anyway...that's not the question....I don't want to get into that....I am asking about the "legality" issue....constitutional issue....of the court's ruling to make it illegal to choose to homeschool in the state of CA because of one abusive situation and family who happened to be homeschoolers (that's really what the court case is about...a family who was found to be abusive, then they found that they homeschooled, so they were sent to court over the hsing issue, not the abuse issue)



Nicole_Michelle -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 3:26:51 PM)

quote:

a family who was found to be abusive, then they found that they homeschooled, so they were sent to court over the hsing issue, not the abuse issue)


Yeah, that is not right. If the children were being abused they should deal with that and leave out the homeschooling...

So, do they think all homeschooled children are being abused now? [8|]



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 3:30:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: InBetweenDreams

quote:

a family who was found to be abusive, then they found that they homeschooled, so they were sent to court over the hsing issue, not the abuse issue)


Yeah, that is not right. If the children were being abused they should deal with that and leave out the homeschooling...

So, do they think all homeschooled children are being abused now? [8|]

this family in question had been in the system for 20 years being looked at for all sorts of abusive allegations. They were not sent to court over those issues. The social worker found out they were hsing and THAT they were sent to court over. However, the ruling of the judge was NOT just a single family ruling over THIS family's situation (and yes, if there was abuse I feel he has the right to tell them they can't homeschool)...but this judge instead ruled that homeschooling IN GENERAL with every person in the state of CA is illegal. NOT just this family.



Nicole_Michelle -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 3:33:13 PM)

That judge went way too far. He/she needs to rethink things. [&:]



paulsbride -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 3:53:43 PM)

quote:

Maybe if there were some way of making sure each homeschooling parent could do it adequately I'd think differently. Right now, I'm against homeschooling unless there are strict requirements met. Just my $.02. We're all different people with different opinions for diverse reasons.


I have known some pretty "shady" homeschoolers and if I only knew those families I would say the same thing!!
They slept in late, wore pjs all day, no structure, were years behind academically - NOT because the children were slow learners, but because the parents were lazy.

I was homeschooled and I appreciated it, and Paul and I plan on homeschooling our kids. With being military I can't imagine not homeschooling. Even if we weren't military we would still homeschool.
I can't imagine a law against it! I wouldn't have a problem with stricter standards though.


So I went out with the lady today (that I mentioned I'd felt God leading me to ask her do something with after prayer meeting.) I LOVE her! She's so sweet and fun! I think we will be good friends. [:D] I'm excited.



bride48 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 4:01:37 PM)

The ruling allows for home schooling by a "certified tutor," but I still think it's a horrible ruling. Did you know that, beginning with kindergardners, public schools in California are required to teach that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle? So if a parent can't afford Christian school, home school is really the only viable option. So, can only college graduates with teaching certificates have kids? Puh-leeze! This ruling's sole purpose is to usher in state-controlled education!



pumpkin -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 4:06:04 PM)

I have always had specific ideas on homeschooling. =)

Some may agree, some may disagree. That's ok, it's just my personal preference and my personal opinion.

As some of you may know, I am a certified elementary school teacher. I have substitute taught in public schools, and have taught in a private Christian school. (Actually in 2 of them)

I do NOT agree with those states that allow homeschooling without any particular regulations set forth. I believe that those states allow for very very very bad homeschooling, and kind of set it up so that a child never has to learn anything, and you only have the parent to ask how the child is doing.

I believe that states should still having children following set guidelines for homeschooling, including standardized testing. I believe that children who are homeschooled should be made to take all standardized tests, and grade level tests within nearby schools.

My reasoning? Well, as I stated above, it makes it too easy for a parent to keep their child home, and just say "oh Jan just passed 3rd grade reading, and is on to 5th grade math" while in reality the child can barely read, and cannot truly comprehend 2nd grade math. I had a child who came from a state with no homeschooling guidelines in my classroom. His mother informed us of his "grade levels" when she enrolled him. He COULD NOT do the work at that grade level. He was, in fact, several grade levels BEHIND when she said that he was several AHEAD. I had no records to go by. I had nothing saying that he could in fact do this work... except that he could not do the work I set before him. We put him at the appropriate grade levels for his ability, and his parents were upset. He needed very specific special educational help as well, as he could not work on his own AT ALL.

So, I will likely homeschool any children God chooses to bless us with. I will choose to (whether required by law/guidelines or not) participate in testing like standardized testing, and grade level testing. I would also consider placing my child in a private Christian school, but it would require a great deal of prayer to get to that point. I do not like public school systems in general... but if I found a good one, that I felt good about, I would place my child there too. It all depends on the people, really.



Krislynx -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 4:24:22 PM)

A lot of this will probably be a rehash of some of what Sarah said but here goes. Some of the most important skills a child will learn are accomplished during infancy and early childhood. No one ever questions a parent's ability to teach a baby how to feed themselves, use the bathroom or walk so I don't understand why it becomes a problem when parents want to teach reading and writing. Particularly considering that most of the pre-requisites (counting, letter sounds and recognition etc.) are begun in the home. Also, there are so many ways available to teach advanced subjects these days that virtually any parent who wants to home school can find the necessary resources for subjects like calculus, organic chemistry (high school level), biology etc. And if the lab components are too advanced or unsafe for the home environment many states will allow students 15 and over to take classes in the community colleges while still in high school. Many private schools are not required to hire licensed teachers so the idea of requiring parents to fulfill some type of credentialing requirement would be a double standard at best in many areas. Tamara, I fully support your right to disagree with homeschooling (and my post[:)]) but would you be willing to elaborate on why you think parents should be "licensed" to home school? I know that is not exactly what you said, I just couldn't come up with a succinct way to say it. Unless of course that is not an appropriate Kicka topic. Jeanie?

Now on to what Sarah was trying to discuss. I have a couple of problems with the recent ruling. My biggest problem is the general attitude displayed in the ruling that shows a contempt for parental rights. They were asked to rule on a specific situation and instead made broad, sweeping statements about the concept of home schooling in general. Now I understand that the family in question has had a number of problems over many years and that this ruling may not stand or be used to end or restrict homeschooling in general but it is not an isolated incident. Frequently allegations of abuse of home schooled children are used as fodder to tighten home schooling laws across the country. I live in CT and in the last 3 years there have been 2 cases similar to this one that had the state legislature seriously considering laws that would have made home schooling in CT a very difficult proposition. These laws never made it out of the discussion phase but it is a concern that is always on the horizon. I believe children need to be protected from abuse but the idea that they must go to school in order to be under some one else's watchful eye is very disturbing to me. If a particular family that happens to home school is found to be abusive then there should be a system in place to take care of that family and situation individually. Perhaps requiring the children to attend school is appropriate, maybe frequent visits from social workers that are knowledgable about home schooling. I don't have all the answers (or even all the questions) but home schooling is not abusive. Having input into the people and influences your children are exposed to is not abusive. And the government, whether state or federal, should not be telling people how to raise their children.

Kris



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 4:38:30 PM)

quote:

Many private schools are not required to hire licensed teachers

just wanted to say...on this point....my Christian school was ACSI certified, and for them to be certified with the ACSI (Association of Christian Schools international) ALL the teachers there had to also be certified within their system or meet the requirements of their certification. So some private schools do fall under the certified schools part....but others do not. We competed with a few private schools in sports events who were not certified and their teachers were not required to be certified in any way to teach there.

Gina....I totally agree with you that some state laws may need to be redefined for the lazy homeschoolers, however I still do not think the attitude of "you can't teach your child cause you don't have a paper saying you paid ten thousand dollars to go through college" is appropriate either. I completely agree that testing is a good thing.....though we do not do it (or have not chosen to thus far) because of other reasons (mostly moving and not really knowing the area we are in...also our state does not require it). My problem with testing though is this....some schools go over certain basic materials at grade level, but those grade level materials do not necessarily translate to EVERY school even doing the same things in the same grades. For instance...just talking public schools....I know some that teach cursive writing starting in the first grade...and I know others that don't even introduce it til the 4th grade. So if it shows up on a standardized test then some will know about it, and others will not. My other problem with standardized testing is this...when you require standards, then you start to also get into requiring certain curriculum that is not parent led or parent chosen. The state of Ca (as someone else said) has been trying for a long time to institute laws for hsers using the same stuff that public schools use...and I WILL NOT teach my kids homosexuality is good and al sorts of other morally wrong things just because a standardized test will test on that!!!
So while I do believe in standardized testing, and the availability of it for parents to use (at their discretion), I don't believe in it for MANDATORY. However, if we ever live in a mandatory state for testing we will do it.

quote:

home schooling is not abusive. Having input into the people and influences your children are exposed to is not abusive. And the government, whether state or federal, should not be telling people how to raise their children.

AMEN!!!! THAT was my point!!!!



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 4:45:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bride48

The ruling allows for home schooling by a "certified tutor," but I still think it's a horrible ruling. Did you know that, beginning with kindergardners, public schools in California are required to teach that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle? So if a parent can't afford Christian school, home school is really the only viable option. So, can only college graduates with teaching certificates have kids? Puh-leeze! This ruling's sole purpose is to usher in state-controlled education!


Exactly.

I was homeschooled in a very non-traditional manner. We did mostly learning through literature and hands-on field trip type activities. We did use textbooks for math and some of our later sciences.

In 8th grade a bunch of the homeschoolers got together to do a semester of biology complete with dissection labs(baby pig, fish, crayfish, frog, and earthworm). My biology class in highschool didn't have a single dissection, not even the standard frog[&:] This was the class that was required to graduate so everyone was taking it... My bio education was better when I was homeschooled.

My problem with standardized testing is the pressure that is placed on students and teachers to perform well. They aren't really measuring how well the student is doing for the students sake but for the sake of school funding. Something is screwed up when you are teaching for the test. I took several of them in high school and didn't see much point in them.

ETA- I completely agree that is it MY right as a parent to homeschool, or to choose a charter or private school. We might choose a public school but there are very few "good" public schools(non-charter) in our district and I don't anticipate moving very far anytime soon.



nicole6598 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 4:48:09 PM)

Wow, I never heard of a school not having qualified teachers, that is illegal in Australia!

I think if the parent is able they should be allowed to teach their kids at home, but if they are a little slack with thing, dodgy in other words then no. Don't you have some kind of way of making sure homeschool children meet certain achievement levels? We had a family wanting to homeschool (here in Australia you have to be on the role of a school) through our school but we discovered the kids would spend most of their day playing or watching tv and were severly behind so the govt stepped in and the kids had to return to normal school.



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 4:53:27 PM)

I know in Maryland you have to be under an Umbrella school and either someone from that school, or someone from the school district checks each child's portfolio at the end of the school year to asses that all the required work was being done.

ETA- We were not required to do any standardized testing.



TwinCityGirl -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/7/2008 4:54:02 PM)

Hello, and welcome to Part 3: [sm=wave.gif]

Diane
Kylie
Laura
Beth (thanks for the updates!!!! Glad to hear the little girl is so much better.)
SAL
Erin
Anne
Tamara
Miss Giggles
and
Gina!!!

It's nice to see so many people stop by, even if sometimes you feel like you're not in a heavy-thinking mode or 'have nothing to add'. (I bet that is almost NEVER true, but I understand the thinking. I think that often of myself in other threads, too.)

Jeanie



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