RE: Kicka, part 3 (Full Version)

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uponeagleswings -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 1:19:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulsbride

I was thinking about it this evening - even if there are rules/guidelines for home school parents, the "lazy" and "bad" parents would still fly under the radar, so the rules would really just make life more difficult on the good home schooling parents. Wouldn't it?


I thought of that too. But if the regulations are designed correctly they wouldn't be too much of a burden on "true" hs families, but would put some teeth behind being able to DO something about the lazy "hs-ers". Donna's example of being required to log hours/days, taking an annual test, and showing some sort of report card could do it. Or putting together a portfolio of what was learned during a school year- to be "looked at" by someone familiar with and in favor of hs, or maybe by someone in whatever district the family lives in (a home-school liason of sorts).



clag4christ -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 1:25:00 AM)

That ruling actually makes me grateful that we're no longer living in CA. It's appalling that a court could decide what's best for *my* children, whom God Himself sent into and out of my womb. What a pity that the people in power in the CA court system suffer from such delusions of grandure. [&:][:@][:'(]



clag4christ -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 1:29:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: uponeagleswings

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulsbride

I was thinking about it this evening - even if there are rules/guidelines for home school parents, the "lazy" and "bad" parents would still fly under the radar, so the rules would really just make life more difficult on the good home schooling parents. Wouldn't it?


I thought of that too. But if the regulations are designed correctly they wouldn't be too much of a burden on "true" hs families, but would put some teeth behind being able to DO something about the lazy "hs-ers". Donna's example of being required to log hours/days, taking an annual test, and showing some sort of report card could do it. Or putting together a portfolio of what was learned during a school year- to be "looked at" by someone familiar with and in favor of hs, or maybe by someone in whatever district the family lives in (a home-school liason of sorts).



I fully realize and understand why these 'stop gaps' are in place but I really do find them a nuisance and a bother. Why should I (when we're in the process of homeschooling our kiddos) have to provide a report card, portfolio or anything to the school district superintendent or local school principal (of the school my child would be attending but for hschooling), since my child is not under that persons authority? Truly...that superintendent or principal is not the ultimate authority on education so why should I have to report to him/her on what my child knows or doesn't know? I have no problem with tests though...since those are a more accurate reflection of a child's knowledge as a lazy hschooling parent could easily mislead a ''higher up" or liason with log sheets and report cards.



ThursdaysChild -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 3:42:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2

[contrary to what some believe, it doesn't take a lot of time to homeschool...depending on the child mostly. However, what might take a teacher teaching 30 students an hour to go over can easily be done in five minutes with a single student. So time involved is not a true indication of the quality of what it being learned.
It's also not about what is being taught, it's about what is being learned!!!


Amen! Good point. In Kuwait it's only necessary to have a college degree, not necessarily certification to teach. They have some very good teachers who haven't been "trained" as such as well as those who aren't so good. Same goes for those with certification. Also while I'm certified K-12 in foreign language, except for homeshcooling my son, I hadn't taught below 6th grade before coming to Kuwait.

quote:

true Ryanne...some "require" that you show them the seat in your vehicle....some make you take it up to get the baby...some say they have to put the baby in....others say `they have to watch YOU put the baby in....We have had a whole slew of differences with our four kids.


The hospital where the twins were born GIVE you a free carseat. [:D] Gotta love 'em! And they're not cheap pieces of doo-doo. They're made by a name brand (forget which one now). Nothing fancy. Just basic. But it free to all newborns.

quote:

Beth, good luck with the move! Too bad we can't all come over and help you out -- but we probably wouldn't be able to find the place in the sandstorm anyway. And by the time the pizza guy found the place in all that blowing sand it would be cold and we'd all be bitter we came all that way and had cold pizza after all. It does sound like some really nice changes from your current place. That's fabulous.



Oh, Jeannie, you're a hoot! Last night we did order pizza and the guy found us after calling for directions. No sandstorm, just his accent and the fact I tend to talk a bit fast. LOL It was good though and nice and hot! Yum!

Well, DH worked late so he slept at the office. Now he's home and taking a nap. Whenever he feels like joining the rest of the living we'll plan the rest of our day. We have leftover pizza and we still have some leftover mjadra which DH can have since he's eaten a ton of pizza the last few days. Whenever he's out with the guys from the office they tend to eat somewhere. I guess he's had a lot of pizza lately. LOL Mjadra is comfort food for him.

I moved some things over to the new place last night. Got a very late start so didn't get that much done. E could help me carry things down to the car and the guard at the new place helped me once I got there but I'd rather have DH and I loading up two cars or borrowing a friend's van, you know? The guard at the new place is very nice, much more helpful than the one here, and keeps it much cleaner. Our building now has soda stains all over the walls and floors of the stairwells, nasty stuff I can't really identify, from the bratty kids running around unsupervised. The ones who are "supervised" ignore the maids so what good are they? The new building has nice clean stairwells (from what I saw through the doors-I was using the elevators) and the elevators haven't been messed with like the ones here. It's looking like heaven to me. LOL I can't wait to move in! I have counters on both sides of my kitchena and outlets over one so I can actually have my appliances on a countertop to use them rather than on a little rickety table. They just don't know how to do kitchens in apartments in this country! But I found a good one. [:D]

Have a nice day, ladies!





McGuinessMagee -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 4:25:58 AM)

I was just checking out a Christian radio station online and the advertising on their site was all about horoscopes. I know sometimes with online sites people can't choose the advertising coming through the site, but it just seemed off.

How careful should Christian websites be with where they set up sites and what types of advertising come through? Is the message more important than the venue? Is a Christian site sending out it's message through a site which allows unChristian advertising on the same level as people going to pubs to preach or visiting street corners where prostitutes hang out? Or are they different thngs altogether?

Kylie[sm=silly.gif]



29redballoons -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 5:29:20 AM)

Jessica, When Judah gets old enough to homeschool, call me. Ga is easy and they work with you...not against you with homeschooling your child. You do have to fill out attendance forms and send them in monthly. Standardized testing is required every three years. Four hours are the required daily amount of schooling for home schoolers in our state. For the record, when my dd started back to private Christian school in her freshman year, she was a year ahead...we loved our time homeschooling and we are so much closer in our relationship directtly because of it.

Sarah, I think the Ca ruling or attempt thereof is going to be just the beginning, don't you?



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 8:17:37 AM)

quote:

I was thinking about it this evening - even if there are rules/guidelines for home school parents, the "lazy" and "bad" parents would still fly under the radar, so the rules would really just make life more difficult on the good home schooling parents. Wouldn't it?

yup.....a person that is what I call an "abuser of the system" (or lazy if you want to put it that way) is going to find ways around every rule you throw at them.

quote:

Who knew young men could eat so much?!?!

write that down for when Judah and your other future boy(s) are teens!!!!



PrincessDonna -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 8:37:02 AM)

quote:

yup.....a person that is what I call an "abuser of the system" (or lazy if you want to put it that way) is going to find ways around every rule you throw at them.


Yes, but I have personally seen two families decide to homeschool and then change their minds and go back to public school. Why? Because they didn't want the hassle of sending a report to the district 4 times a year? That tells me a few things about those people...they thought hsing was the easy way and would require little to no effort, their conviction to homeschool was pretty weak, and they would rather deal with the hassle of sending them to a school they didn't care for. Both of these families had even gone so far as to purchase curriculum, so it wasn't that they just started looking in to it...they intended to go ahead with it and then decided it was "too much work". Exactly what was said to me...too much work.

I think if educating your children requires no work or effort on your part, maybe you're not really educating or planning to educate, KWIM? And yes, these two families do seem to always find the "easy" road and take it, whatever that might be. I don't know how they got the impression from me that hsing was the easy road, but apparently they did.



clag4christ -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 8:50:37 AM)

quote:

I think if educating your children requires no work or effort on your part, maybe you're not really educating or planning to educate, KWIM? And yes, these two families do seem to always find the "easy" road and take it, whatever that might be. I don't know how they got the impression from me that hsing was the easy road, but apparently they did.


For me it's not about the work required for the school district to check up on my kids. It's that they're checking on my kids in the first place. If TX requires logs and a full dossier for my child (the time in which it takes to do that we could be doing something fun and educational as a family) I will of course jump through the required hoops so that my child will get the best education possible. It's just a pain and more gov't. intervention than I believe there should be.

As Joel says, "Having you homeschool is the only way we can guarantee they'll get the best teacher possible!" [;)][8D][:D]

quote:

Sarah, I think the Ca ruling or attempt thereof is going to be just the beginning, don't you?


I know I'm not Sarah, but I believe this is just the beginning as well. The same state that has judges say that hschooling is illegal also do THIS.



PrincessDonna -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 9:01:40 AM)

I see what you're saying, Kim. I know if someone is intent on hsing "right", they will do that whether the government tells them to or not. I just don't think it's such a bad thing if a small amount of requirements deter families who maybe shouldn't be hsing anyway.

For me, and being in one of the most difficult states to hs, it took me an extra 2 hours or less each quarter to do what I needed to do. Eight hours a year, and all while the rest of the family were sleeping, so it didn't take a second away from family time. I don't think that's too much, and some of that I'd likely have done even if it wasn't required. The only thing they require that I probably wouldn't have done if I didn't have to...logging hours/days. I would still have made up a quarterly summary for myself to look back on and remember what we did. I would still have mapped out what I planned to use for curriculum. I would probably have still tested at least some years, to confirm that appropriate progress was being made.



Mrs.Wifey -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 9:01:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lexie


quote:

I know Canada has had some quibbling about possibly making the Gardasil shot (for the HPV virus, a sexually transmitted disease) MANDATORY for girls at age 12, I believe. There is talk of making it MANDATORY to vaccinate your 12-year-old girl for an STD


I haven't heard any talk of it being mandatory....Merck would like it to be. What's happened here with it is the governments (federal and provincial) are funding it the same way they do any other vaccination for our children. So if we want our children to have it at the age of 12, then our doctor or schools will do it for free. If we choose not to get it we do not have to sign anything the way we do if we opt out of the MMR vaccines for example (which is only required for schooling...we have opted out thus far and haven't come up against anything).


Actually, it's certain states in the US that are trying to make it mandatory.


Like I linked you to the other night, Kim, >TX laws< are pretty much non-existent on homeschooling other then to say that parents have the constitutional right to choose to homeschool and they recognize homeschoolers as "private" schools. Oh, and you have to do certain basic subjects.

I do think there should be legislation in place to monitor homeschool families, I don't disagree with requiring some sort of attendance and curriculum check.

ETA- the record keeping, like Donna said, really isn't that bad. Even in my family where there wasn't always much of a written record of what we did we never had any problem building our portfolio.



SAL67 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 9:34:18 AM)

This homeschooling stuff is really interesting to me, because I started HSing my 6th grade DD this year. My 3rd grader is still in school and loves it. My 6th grader was begging me to HS, and I'm planning on doing it only through middle school. She has a lot of academic and social struggles, and in my opinion, the middle school years would do her more harm than good in school. In elementary school, she went to an extremely good magnet school. She learned a lot (I've discovered as I'm homeschooling her), but her grades weren't great, because she panics during tests. Tests don't always reflect what she learns. She flunked almost every state-mandated test she took, yet no one ever said she had to leave the school because they weren't doing a good job. (I think they did a great job; I'm just making a point.) So my problem with mandated tests for homeschoolers is what about the kids that don't test well? Does that mean HS is not working for them? Maybe, maybe not.

I too have seen people HS badly. But most do a great job. The curriculum I bought is EXCELLENT! Anything I have forgotten I can relearn easily. I don't know that I could teach high school physics (actually, I know I CANNOT!) but the local community college markets to homeschoolers and my daughter could take a class there. My point is that if parents are diligent, HS can be at least as good academically as "regular" school. I have a college degree, although not in education. I worked just as hard as an education major, and I learned how to learn, so to speak. Why would a teaching degree make me more qualified to teach my daughter? She struggles academically, and does not learn well in a classroom setting. Because of that, the teachers could not teach her as well as one-on-one tutoring (which is what I'm basically doing) has. She was a C/D student in math. This year she is getting a 92% in math. The first quarter she still choked on tests, but now she is doing much better with them!

As I said, if parents are diligent, they will find what works best for their child, no matter if that is public, private or HS. If parents are lazy, the kids will have a problem, no matter if they are in public, private or HS. I do know that if our state made it illegal to HS right now, my daughter would be worse off and have much greater problems. Thankfully, that is not the case, and I have the right to do what is best for her during the critical stage of her life.

SAL



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 9:34:52 AM)

quote:

If TX requires logs and a full dossier for my child (the time in which it takes to do that we could be doing something fun and educational as a family)

actually there are programs out there (like HOMESCHOOLTRACKER) that make it very easy to keep records....takes all of a few clicks every day to keep things up on there (setting up ours took maybe an hour of time in the beginning). So there are easy ways to do it. My problem with government intrusions is not the time it takes, it is that they feel they have the "right" to intrude more and more. They gain an inch and take a mile!!!

quote:

quote:

Sarah, I think the Ca ruling or attempt thereof is going to be just the beginning, don't you?


I know I'm not Sarah, but I believe this is just the beginning as well. The same state that has judges say that hschooling is illegal also do THIS.

from what I have seen and what others have said, CA is usually the first state to institute something...then within a matter of a few years others are pushing for it too. So yeah, I would say yes I can see them doing this more and more in the future...even if this ruling gets overturned (which according to the governator...he won't let it pass....GO GOV!!!)



SAL67 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 9:38:14 AM)

The other thing I forgot to mention is my daughter LOVES homeschooling. Everyone who knows her well cannot believe how much happier she is now that she is home. She is more confident and actually believes she's smart. If I could get across the problems she always had with math (tears during homeword, etc.)! I almost fell over last month when she told her grandfather that math was her best subject! The difference is AMAZING!

However, my 3rd grader loves school, and due to many circumstances, is better off where she is RIGHT NOW. But I think we, as parents, have the right to always evaluate what is best for our children. If I ever feel she's better off at home (maybe also during the middle school years), I think I have that right.

SAL



SAL67 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 10:26:01 AM)

One more thing.....LOL

I just want to make it clear that I do NOT think a person needs a college degree to HS successfully. I think a person just needs the desire to learn what they need to learn to teach their child, and the willingness to find the outside help if they cannot.

And I know there are some lazy homeschool parents out there, but for the most part, a parent would NEVER choose to HS if they are lazy! My schedule is crazier than some because I also have a child in school so I have to get her to/from school, help with homework, etc., but HS is a sacrifice in time and money no matter how you do it. You can make it cheaper depending on the curriculum you pick, but you are giving up time, no way around it. I think most lazy parents would prefer to send their kids to school than to teach their kids themselves.

OK, now I'm done! (At least for now, since I have to run out the door!)

SAL



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 10:30:35 AM)

quote:

I think most lazy parents would prefer to send their kids to school than to teach their kids themselves.

YUP...I think on average that is correct!!! The lazy ones that keep them home are doing it for selfish reasons, not just laziness (such as the child being a "babysitter" for younger ones, etc)



PrincessDonna -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 10:30:50 AM)

quote:

I just want to make it clear that I do NOT think a person needs a college degree to HS successfully. I think a person just needs the desire to learn what they need to learn to teach their child, and the willingness to find the outside help if they cannot.


I agree.[:D]

quote:

And I know there are some lazy homeschool parents out there, but for the most part, a parent would NEVER choose to HS if they are lazy!


From my experience, I don't agree with this. I think there are quite a few people who would homeschool if they knew they could be lazy with it and get away with it. I do think most people who homeschool do so because they care that their kids receive a quality education, but I think the current regulations in my state do deter those who don't have the best motives.



paulsbride -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 12:22:19 PM)

quote:

The hospital where the twins were born GIVE you a free carseat. Gotta love 'em! And they're not cheap pieces of doo-doo. They're made by a name brand (forget which one now). Nothing fancy. Just basic. But it free to all newborns.


The hospital Judah was born at use to do this - then a few months before he was born someone put the baby in the seat incorrectly -or something like that - and they were in a car accident on the way home from the hospital and the baby died. The parents or caregivers of that child turned around and sued the Hospital!!
So now the hospital requires you to have your own car seat, and at least in the NICU I had to bring it up to make sure he fit in it properly, and he had to sit in it for 30 minutes to make sure he could breath - the nurses closely supervised but would not touch and could not tell me how to strap him in. Then I had to sign a paper taking full responsibility for my child and him being in his car seat [8|]

I don't think it's silly of the Hospital to do that (knowing WHY they do that!!) But what greedy sue-happy people!!
I wonder if in a state without guidelines on homeschooling if a child could (grow up) and turn around and sue the state for neglect on their education? (Even though it would have been because of neglectful parents.)


555. <---- Judah's contribution to the conversation (he came up and hit buttons!)



danas_mom -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 1:24:04 PM)

quote:

I don't believe logging hours/days, taking a test once a year, and sending the district superintendent a report card are too much for a legitimate homeschooler.


I agree.



clag4christ -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 1:24:58 PM)

quote:

My problem with government intrusions is not the time it takes, it is that they feel they have the "right" to intrude more and more. They gain an inch and take a mile!!!


I agree 100%.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 1:35:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: danas_mom

quote:

I don't believe logging hours/days, taking a test once a year, and sending the district superintendent a report card are too much for a legitimate homeschooler.


I agree.

maybe not, but until it's required where I live I am not going to do that because then it's like giving them ammunition for something they don't need ammunition for.



uponeagleswings -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 1:42:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: clag4christ
I fully realize and understand why these 'stop gaps' are in place but I really do find them a nuisance and a bother. Why should I (when we're in the process of homeschooling our kiddos) have to provide a report card, portfolio or anything to the school district superintendent or local school principal (of the school my child would be attending but for hschooling), since my child is not under that persons authority? Truly...that superintendent or principal is not the ultimate authority on education so why should I have to report to him/her on what my child knows or doesn't know? I have no problem with tests though...since those are a more accurate reflection of a child's knowledge as a lazy hschooling parent could easily mislead a ''higher up" or liason with log sheets and report cards.


Heh...I respectfully disagree that standardized tests are a more accurate reflection of a child's (or anyone's) knowledge than a portfolio or other documentation. Tests could MAYBE show that someone has met a minimum baseline for knowledge, but not all children test well. A combination of both a portfolio from the year, and some testing, along with meeting with a home-school liaison maybe 2-4x/year (a brag session for your child [:)])
Is a bit more school district oversight worth it to weed out the lazy "hs-ers" who think they're taking the easy road and give the legitimate ones a bad name (and cause things like what's happening in CA)?



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 2:35:17 PM)

quote:

Is a bit more school district oversight worth it to weed out the lazy "hs-ers"

IMO NO it isn't worth it...because once again you are talking about people that are out to get around the law anyway, so they will still find ways around it even if you make it harder. Look at the states that have harder laws...all it does is make it harder for the good ones to do what they want to do...it doesn't take away the bad ones from doing what they want anyway!!!



Krislynx -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 2:36:44 PM)

When I begin to officially home school my son I will do the minimum the state requires for reporting - no more, no less. I will keep records for my own information and in case we are ever faced with a situation where additional documentation is required. I do not agree with requiring standardized testing. All it really does is tell you how well kids take tests. Not what they know or how well they are learning.

Kris



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (3/8/2008 2:42:44 PM)

quote:

When I begin to officially home school my son I will do the minimum the state requires for reporting - no more, no less.

(just a heads up....if your state requires that you let the school know, check the state regs cause a lot of schools have you fill out papers with them, and they want more information then is actually "required"....they don't tell you that though, they just put it all on their form and tell you to fill out their form. Just know and be aware that they might do that...and no you don't have to fill everything out...only what is "required")

As far as testing...our daughter has eye problems....and we have a feeling that's why she is behind in reading. We are working on that with her though and trying to get her eyes in better shape so she can see better. For a written test she wouldn't do very well...because of her eyes. However if you were to sit down with her and ask her questions she could answer them very well.



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