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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 3:45:06 PM
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lexie
Posts: 2213
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From: Toronto
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quote:
Hi Lexie! What was the clue that gave away my city? (I'm curious.)
I don't know, just the description of the city....there isn't one thing that says Winnipeg, but something just told me that could be where you are. Not sure what it was, but I know that Winnipeg has a lot of problems with crime and those issues you mentioned (from talking to people from there.) And also knowing that there are a great many of people trying to reach out to people and get things cleaned up.
I think our church would be great in my neighbourhood (the church isn't in this part of the city) because we are a church with a Caribbean background and flavour to it, and that is what a lot of people in the neighbourhood are. Over the years, the face of the neighbourhood has been changing (a lot of Muslim immigrants) and I find that the groups are trying to cater to them, but forget about the Caribbean population that is still there. We're not really in a position to church plant in this neighbourhood, but I'm hoping that we may be able to outreach soon.
I'm involved with one non-religious organization in the area, and I try to get involved with other things in the neighbourhood where I can connect with people from that background, but sometimes the resources to allow that stuff just isn't there. I'm hoping it will change!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 6:24:17 PM
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purejoy
Posts: 614
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It doesn't bother me. Actually, I think some places are pretty brave for being that bold about it, because it could potentially cost them business.
We don't use any symbols or anything like that on our company logo, but we do advertise in the Christian Business Directory. I think for us it's more of a thing where we would like to support a brother or sister in Christ, especially since small businesses can be pretty difficult at times.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 9:28:58 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 3945
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Yeah, Lexie. We have a great many problems. Murder capital of Canada. More violent crime than any other city in Canada. More car theft than anywhere else in Canada (the law now requires certain vehicles to have immobilizers installed to make theft more difficult) and an arson epidemic. I think we also have the largest urban native population in Canada and possibly the US as well.
Are you Caribbean? I'm not but I grew up in a church that was half Caribbean and loved it. I visited there a couple of years ago and one of the Caribbean men, father to my sister's best friend when we were young, came up to me and very cheerily told me how fat I am! My mom was mortified but I think he meant it as praise, lol! For some reason, that really tickled my fancy and no one else could get away saying that.
quote:
the face of the neighbourhood has been changing (a lot of Muslim immigrants) and I find that the groups are trying to cater to them, but forget about the Caribbean population that is still there.
That's the same with my church's neighbourhood. It's mostly native now but it used to be primarily Eastern European. There are a number of food stores that still carry foods imported from Russia and the Ukraine, a Ukrainian press, travel agency and the most darling little Ukrainian Orthodox church with the onion domes.
I can see why your church is a good fit for your neighbourhood. Keep praying about it. God can open the way.
As for the icthus, I don't particularly like it but only because I think it's open to abuse. As some have already pointed out, so called Christian businesses can be just as crooked as the others. When they put that little fish in their logo or elsewhere related to their business (or when people put it on their cars), they bring a bad reputation for Christ the moment they do something they shouldn't.
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Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 10:38:04 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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I have a topic... Since we talked about the Vineyard church, how do ya'll feel about such things as the "Toronto Blessing"? Do you believe that barking like a dog, or clucking like a chicken can be a true manifestation of the Holy Spirit?
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"No firebrands, or deadly arrows just a Springfield XD .40 with Tritium sights" Patriotism
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 10:39:24 PM
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nicole6598
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Short answer Ryanne is NO!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 10:44:07 PM
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uponeagleswings
Posts: 1863
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From: Out here in the desert
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I'm not sure. I've been in enough pentecostal/AOG churches to think that being slain in the spirit, laughing, dancing, or running laps around the church CAN BE a true manifestation of the Spirit, but I think I have to draw the line at things that humans don't necessarily do naturally- ie barking, clucking, etc. I think God can and does give us a spirit of joy, but not of foolishness/silliness (and I don't mean David's worship type of "foolishness," but things that people don't normally do.
My pastor one week did a message on types of worship seen in the Bible...it was quite interesting- I don't recall making animal noises being on the list though. 
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Stacy In Love All Over Again "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time- I think I've forgotten this before."- Steven Wright, comedian
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/7/2008 11:05:19 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 3945
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I'm thinking that the Holy Spirit can manifest himself in any way he chooses. I know one thing about the Toronto Blessing and that is that a friend of mine went there a sceptic. Then she found herself flat on the floor. She's never been the same since. She went from being a nominal Christian, going through the motions, to a dynamic Christian, full of the Holy Spirit. If I hadn't seen that, I would have very serious doubts about the Toronto Blessing. I also think that in any outpouring of the Holy Spirit, there will be some who mimic the outward "manifestations" without the inner filling--maybe to fit in, maybe to get attention or maybe like the magicians in Pharaoh's court were were able to mimic what God did through Moses.
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Maggie
Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 8:51:08 AM
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LaurainAL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
I have a topic... Since we talked about the Vineyard church, how do ya'll feel about such things as the "Toronto Blessing"? Do you believe that barking like a dog, or clucking like a chicken can be a true manifestation of the Holy Spirit?
No. I think it is more nonsense than anything as I can not see how it glorifies God.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 9:08:18 AM
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lexie
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From: Toronto
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Maggie - I'm Dutch Canadian, my husband is born and raised Jamaican. I joined his church, and while it's not only Caribbean, it has happened that all of the people who attend our congregation (except me!) are Jamaican or Trinidadian. I love that someone made the comment to you that you are fat! That is high praise for someone from the Caribbean!
(A friend of mine grew up in a small town of all white people. There was one Jamaican family and at school one day, they had to say something positive to each other. The Jamaican boy told a girl "you're fat." The poor girl was in tears, and the boy didn't get what was going on because that was a compliment!)
I don't know much about the Toronto Blessing, but I do not believe that barking like a dog and such is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Dh's former church is like that (somewhat), they believe that speaking in tongues also involves running around the entire church, rolling on the floor, foaming at the mouth, and making a fool out of yourself.
I get that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is a magnificent thing, and that God can use it in any way He sees fit to minister to others, but I do feel that there are many people who get caught up in the outward appearance and the atmosphere around them. I have seen this firsthand, and while I don't think that I can judge someone elses heart, I don't think that it helped the church any.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 9:21:39 AM
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magdaleine
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quote:
I love that someone made the comment to you that you are fat! That is high praise for someone from the Caribbean!
That's what I thought.
quote:
The Jamaican boy told a girl "you're fat." The poor girl was in tears, and the boy didn't get what was going on because that was a compliment!)
Poor thing! I hope someone straightened out her understanding.
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Maggie
Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 12:43:41 PM
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peculiar_lady2
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I think reading the book "The Beautiful Side Of Evil" really set into stone where I stand as far as outward manifestations of God goes.
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"God has a plan for your life...and so does everybody else." ~said by Doinkdom
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 12:45:58 PM
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purejoy
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Sarah, I will have to read that. I added it to my library list. Some areas of this are kind of gray for me, and I really need to biblically research it more. Gray in that I haven't researched it myself...I know what I was taught, but that's about it.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 9:03:08 PM
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BrowneyedAL
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Joined: 2/26/2008
From: North Alabama
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With my church, you don't get a phone call if you miss a week...after all we have a lot of 'travelers' in our congregation...if you called every member who wasn't there in a given week it would take a lot of people making a lot of phone calls...not to mention that there are 3 separate services so just because I didn't see you this week didn't mean you weren't there. Individual friends might call one another, I'm sure...but you don't really get the 'worried' call unless you miss 3 or 4 weeks in a row.
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Lisa
I have learned in whatever state I am to be content (Philippians 4:11)
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 9:23:38 PM
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lexie
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From: Toronto
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A lot of this speaking in tongues, and demons stuff is very new to me as a Christian. As for the speaking in tongues that I described above, I'm not saying that it CAN'T happen, but what annoys me about Dh's old church is that they tell you that you have to speak in tongues that way. 2 of my BIL's were studying to be pastors with the head of the group of churches, and that congregation went to that head and told him that they wouldn't accept them as pastors of the church until they had that specific manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
That stuff annoys me. That people are trying to put a specific identity on things such as this. And to me, that is very misleading especially for new Christians.
I was at one church where the first thing they were teaching new Christians was that they have to speak in tongues to be saved. It was a little daunting for someone like myself who was new to the whole idea of tongues. It made me feel inadequate as a believer in Christ, and I felt as though I was being scared into following Jesus. Then I felt like I was working towards tongues, rather than having faith that Jesus will lead me down the right path.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 9:27:44 PM
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PrincessDonna
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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I think some of that stuff that went on in Toronto was bogus, and some of it was probably legit. I kind of doubt that the animal noise stuff was legit, but then again, I wasn't there.
My church believes in all the gifts of the Spirit, including speaking in tongues, prophesy, and interpretation. They don't make any of them a salvation issue though, as that is not Biblical in any way, shape, or form.
And, um, hello...if it's a gift, how exactly can you earn it or work hard enough for it??? I believe we can all ask God for the gifts, but it's up to Him which ones He gives us.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 9:33:32 PM
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uponeagleswings
Posts: 1863
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From: Out here in the desert
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lexie
I was at one church where the first thing they were teaching new Christians was that they have to speak in tongues to be saved. It was a little daunting for someone like myself who was new to the whole idea of tongues. It made me feel inadequate as a believer in Christ, and I felt as though I was being scared into following Jesus. Then I felt like I was working towards tongues, rather than having faith that Jesus will lead me down the right path.
The black pentecostal church I attended in Ohio taught (and I assume still teaches) this. I loved the church, but disagree with them on this point (and I know its sort of a biggie since its an issue of salvation). Freaked my hubby out quite badly too.
Our current church "officially" believes that the more...outlandish(?) gifts of the Spirit (tongues/interpretation, prophecy, healing, etc) were gifts for the forming church and aren't necessarily needed anymore. I'm not sure if that's exactly how they put it, and I can't remember the name of that particular idea. Its one of those points where I agree to disagree with their official position, and I know for certain that I'm not the only one who does.
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Stacy In Love All Over Again "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time- I think I've forgotten this before."- Steven Wright, comedian
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 9:35:51 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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My family left the Vineyard when the Toronto Blessing started, we did not, nor do I now believe that it was a true manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
quote:
I was at one church where the first thing they were teaching new Christians was that they have to speak in tongues to be saved. It was a little daunting for someone like myself who was new to the whole idea of tongues.
I don't believe that gifts of the Holy Spirit are required for salvation, but I do think there is something to be said about being filled with the Holy Spirit. At my SIL's church they set an entire weekend aside twice a year for this "healing so you can be filled by the Holy Spirit" sort of retreat. Personally, I didn't know it took an entire weekend. I prayed for it when I was 12 or 13 and received it when I asked...
I don't speak in tongues although I have experienced other manifestations of the Holy Spirit. I have been "slain" in the spirit, and I have had "prophetic" dreams(it sounds so hoaky to say that).
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Ryanne Gabriella Alexis born 8-22-07!
"No firebrands, or deadly arrows just a Springfield XD .40 with Tritium sights" Patriotism
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 9:40:08 PM
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uponeagleswings
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LOL- those do sound hokey in mixed company, don't they. I speak in tongues (although not as regularly as I once did). We were having a prayer meeting on campus one night and I just started "babbling", then after a while all I could do was laugh. I've never felt anything like it in my life. I have also laid hands on people and prayed for them to be filled, and they were. Never been slain in the spirit, although its not for lack of people trying  . Dh is a bit leery about all of the "odder" gifts, mostly because of the bad "tarrying" experience he had at the Ohio church. I've had the impression for quite a while that he has (or will be given) the gift of healing though.
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Stacy In Love All Over Again "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time- I think I've forgotten this before."- Steven Wright, comedian
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 9:42:49 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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I remember that same thing happening to my Dad, Stacy. It was one of the few times that even at the age of 8 or 9 I felt "comfortable" with what was happening. I had seen the barking and clucking first hand and it just never felt right.
I take that back, I have spoken in tongues once when I was driving to work(I had a 40 minute commute) and I was completely overwhelmed in worship. But that is the only time I can think of...
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Ryanne Gabriella Alexis born 8-22-07!
"No firebrands, or deadly arrows just a Springfield XD .40 with Tritium sights" Patriotism
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 10:02:42 PM
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magdaleine
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quote:
LOL- those do sound hokey in mixed company, don't they.
I see a psychiatrist once a week because of chronic, clinical depression. She is very good but she is not a Christian. In fact, she's very clued out about most things Christian; for example, she didn't know the term "pastor."
I've been very amused to myself as I try to imagine what she really thinks as I tell her things such as "God told me to do this and thus." And try explaining spiritual warfare or generational curses! Sometimes I wonder if she keeps me coming because she's certain I'm way off the deep end, LOL!
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Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/8/2008 10:14:29 PM
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peculiar_lady2
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LOL
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)and was rude was a Christian from the church we attended. 
Sorry, but my God is bigger than anything out there and I am not for one minute going to believe that barking like a dog is of God. I have seen demons in church before... More evil than good in church before... Just because it is church does not mean satan will wait at the door and never come in.
