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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/31/2008 2:32:01 AM
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TwinCityGirl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: uponeagleswings
Has anyone noticed that much of the mainstream media acts as though Obama has already won the election, or at least like his victory is a foregone conclusion? I just ran across a yahoo article that started with the perfunctory "if Obama wins," then went on to discuss how he has beat out Hillary, who supposedly had all of the advantages. Its like his victory is a foregone conclusion at this point.
Stacy,
Yeah, it is quite funny to me how it's Obama vs. McCain (and has been for quite some time now). Even if that is how it ends up going, there are still plenty of other people trying out for the job....there ARE other parties besides Democratic and Republican. There's Libertarian, the Green Party, the Constitution Party, I'm sure there is a Communist candidate, Independent....
As a nation we REALLY have GOT to stop acting like there are just two parties, and that casting a vote for someone other than the Democratic or Republican candidate is "wasting" your vote. I hear that from Christians all the time. "Don't vote for the Independent, you'll waste your vote."
Huh? What if people decided to stop voting for the Democratic or Republican candidate if they did not believe in that person but were only doing it because they felt there were no other options? What if all of a sudden the Independent candidate or another party's candidate got a very good amount of votes, maybe didn't even WIN the election, but got enough of a percentage to make people stand up and take notice? Wouldn't that be GREAT?? Not to just feel like you had to choose the Democrat or the Republican?
There is nothing wrong with voting Democrat or Republican if that is who you want to cast your vote for, but I hate the guilt trip people try to put on people if they either want to vote outside the D/R or if they decide they simply cannot stand behind any candidate and don't want to vote at all.
I have the right to bear arms, too, but I exercise that right by not bearing arms.
I am really, really tempted this year to vote and write in my candidate's name (who is no longer running for one of the nominations -- dang). I would not at all consider that a wasted vote. And it actually saddens me when Christian people tell me that that is wasting it, and as a Christian I need to vote for McCain. COME ON. If McCain's your guy, vote for him!
Sorry to get a little irked. I just don't like the "All Christians vote this way" mantra. It gets so old.
Jeanie
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/31/2008 3:33:25 AM
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ThursdaysChild
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But, Jeannie, by not voting, aren't you just voting for the winner? By not voting for one candidate, you're not voting against the other one either. That's my concern. I honestly could not in good conscience cast a vote for any of my choices, that's one thing. But if I had a preference for at least the lesser of two evils, I'd have to vote.
For example, if I had to choose between Obama and Clinton, I'd vote for Clinton. Not because I trust her more (I mistrust them pretty much equally) but because after 8 years of the Clintons in the White House, we kind of know what to expect. Obama also scares me more than Clinton does.
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Live your life in such a way that every morning when your feet hit the floor...Satan shudders and says..."Oh No...she's AWAKE!"
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/31/2008 2:42:41 PM
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uponeagleswings
Posts: 1713
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TwinCityGirl
There is nothing wrong with voting Democrat or Republican if that is who you want to cast your vote for, but I hate the guilt trip people try to put on people if they either want to vote outside the D/R or if they decide they simply cannot stand behind any candidate and don't want to vote at all.
I'm really getting close to this point. We haven't registered to vote ATM, and at least with the "big 3" there isn't one that I could stand behind. There just don't seem to be any good choices to me, plus I hate the fact that we still have an electoral college. I would much prefer a simple majority rules vote. McCain was in office here in AZ for a while and didn't do such a great job, IMO.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/31/2008 4:39:00 PM
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bride48
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For many years, I was a Democrat, and felt very frustrated by the equation between Republicanism and Christanity. But I usually ended up voting Republican because of my Christian convictions. I did vote for Perot in 1992 (obviously, I hadn't studied his position on abortion), and I feel regret--I think Perot's supporters won the election for Bill Clinton.
I believe McCain, while being far more liberal than I'd like, is least likely to appoint liberal judges, and least likely to end the war prematurely. I'm frighted of Clinton and terrified of Obama. Too many laws are already being passed that restrict Christian liberties, and I shudder to think of a president who won't veto as much as Bush has and who will appoint more activist judges. I'm scared for America's future.
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Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
Thankfulness (my latest blog entry)
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/31/2008 4:43:40 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1124
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ThursdaysChild
But, Jeannie, by not voting, aren't you just voting for the winner? By not voting for one candidate, you're not voting against the other one either. That's my concern. I honestly could not in good conscience cast a vote for any of my choices, that's one thing. But if I had a preference for at least the lesser of two evils, I'd have to vote.
I only vote if I believe in someone. And for me this year that is not really happening. To write in the name of the (former) candidate I wish *would* win I do not feel is wasting my vote but rather sending a message that "I know this guy's not going to win but here's who SHOULD win and I believe that strongly enough to show up and vote for someone who will not win."
This is a tenuous time for us to have an election and it is my opinion we are left with some pretty cruddy electable options.
I really don't feel that I am wasting a vote no matter what I do. I really don't. I have to do what I can live with and what the Lord has led me to -- whatever that is, and whether it is popular or gets Person A or B elected or not.
We're all different.
Jeanie
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 5/31/2008 9:09:11 PM
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nicole6598
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Here in Australia and I would assume it happens elsewhere they tend to blame one another alot for the things that are going wrong, even if they were the previous government that also didn't do anything to fix the situation! Like with the petrol prices here, the opposition are bagging out the current government, when it was the opposition who added prices to the fuel years ago anyway  Seriously, just get on with the task at hand and stop pointing the finger!
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Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/1/2008 12:18:55 AM
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TammyIsBlessed
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One thing that I like better about American politics is that the vote for president is a separate vote. If I understand correctly anyway.
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I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/1/2008 2:29:42 AM
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ThursdaysChild
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Yes, you vote for the president on his/her own. Or at least him/her with the running mate they've chosen for VP. You get whoever's party gets the majority, right?
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that every morning when your feet hit the floor...Satan shudders and says..."Oh No...she's AWAKE!"
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/1/2008 11:46:36 AM
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TammyIsBlessed
Posts: 1642
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Yeah. I like your way better. that way I could vote locally (who I want to win in our area) and vote differently, if necessary, federally for prime minister.
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I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do. Helen Keller
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/1/2008 1:22:17 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
I believe McCain, while being far more liberal than I'd like, is least likely to appoint liberal judges, and least likely to end the war prematurely. I'm frighted of Clinton and terrified of Obama. Too many laws are already being passed that restrict Christian liberties, and I shudder to think of a president who won't veto as much as Bush has and who will appoint more activist judges. I'm scared for America's future.
I agree. We will be voting for McCain even though he isn't who we support 100%, because he is far, far better then Clinton or Obama. Having a presidential election with such awful candidates has made us much more active in local politics, especially in supporting Congressional and Senate hopefuls. We've spent the last 7 months backing a wonderful Congressional candidate who has one of the largest grass roots campaigns in the history of Colorado.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/3/2008 10:57:02 PM
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nicole6598
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Sorry to butt in on your politics talk, I had a question though...
Our church in a few weeks is having a "firstfruits" offering week. Where you are meant to give a weeks wages to God (there is some tax glitch where its tax deductable but that doens't mean you get it all back). I have a problem with this. My first thoughts have always been "Are you just pushing this because you need more money?". What do you all think about that type of thing?
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/3/2008 11:05:25 PM
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isaacsmom
Posts: 1997
Joined: 12/2/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Sorry to butt in on your politics talk, I had a question though...
Our church in a few weeks is having a "firstfruits" offering week. Where you are meant to give a weeks wages to God (there is some tax glitch where its tax deductable but that doens't mean you get it all back). I have a problem with this. My first thoughts have always been "Are you just pushing this because you need more money?". What do you all think about that type of thing?
The church is asking the congregation to give a weeks' wages? Wow. I'm one who completely believes in tithing, and also giving above as the Lord prompts. Giving a weeks' wages would kill us. If the Lord led us to do it, we would, we wouldn't doubt him. But I wouldn't feel comfortable if our pastor or church leaders were encouraging everyone to give a large, specific amount like that, unless the Lord was really leading the whole church in this direction. Is this offering going to a specific ministry? Or just into the church treasury?
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Beware of posing as a profound person -- God became a baby. ~Oswald Chambers
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/3/2008 11:07:56 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5088
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Sorry to butt in on your politics talk, I had a question though...
Our church in a few weeks is having a "firstfruits" offering week. Where you are meant to give a weeks wages to God (there is some tax glitch where its tax deductable but that doens't mean you get it all back). I have a problem with this. My first thoughts have always been "Are you just pushing this because you need more money?". What do you all think about that type of thing?
Our "first fruits" are given in the form of our 10% tithe as commanded by the Lord, we would not tithe a full weeks wages unless commanded by the Lord to do so.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/3/2008 11:44:14 PM
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nicole6598
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Yep, we have a pamphlet that talks about Deut and the firstfruits, giving your best and first. We give our frist fruits in response to God's love. Talks about first fruits was part of a lifestyle of giving themselves to God. And does our giving represent our heart and soul. Does it represent out passionate love for God. Talks about sacrificial offering.
We tithe 10% some weeks it may be less then that if there is a major bill or something has come up that we have to pay. But we give to God in our service to our church also and we sponsor a child too.
If we had to tithe a weeks wage there would be no mortgage repayment, car repayment, bills, let alone food. I guess you have the 3 weeks to start saving for it, but I tend to think that if God leads you to do it that weekend, then do it, if not then you shouldn't feel like you have to as giving with the wrong intention will not bring blessings.
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Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/3/2008 11:58:45 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5177
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If your church leadership is demanding this, or making people feel guilty for not doing it, or using any other manipulational devises, I would strongly encourage you to find a different church.
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Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/4/2008 12:21:46 AM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1124
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So then the church treasurer (and whoever else sees the given amounts) knows how much money everybody makes?
My dad is a pastor and has been leader of several churches including some really small, rural churches. The Lord has ALWAYS provided without him getting up and asking everybody to chip in a full paycheck.
Jeanie
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/4/2008 12:58:11 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5088
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
My dad is a pastor and has been leader of several churches including some really small, rural churches. The Lord has ALWAYS provided without him getting up and asking everybody to chip in a full paycheck.
I agree. Likewise, we tithe even when we know there is a bill that might not get paid and we have yet to have a month where there was not enough money(other then frivolous spending but that's our own fault).
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/4/2008 1:03:48 AM
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uponeagleswings
Posts: 1713
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From: Out here in the desert
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
quote:
My dad is a pastor and has been leader of several churches including some really small, rural churches. The Lord has ALWAYS provided without him getting up and asking everybody to chip in a full paycheck.
I agree. Likewise, we tithe even when we know there is a bill that might not get paid and we have yet to have a month where there was not enough money(other then frivolous spending but that's our own fault).
Seconded here. Interestingly enough, when we really committed ourselves to a 10% tithe, we seemed always have money when those unexpected things come up, even though the actual numbers don't always add up. We've gotten behind on the tithing lately  , but are committed to getting caught back up.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/4/2008 1:59:10 AM
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nicole6598
Posts: 4094
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
quote:
My dad is a pastor and has been leader of several churches including some really small, rural churches. The Lord has ALWAYS provided without him getting up and asking everybody to chip in a full paycheck.
I agree. Likewise, we tithe even when we know there is a bill that might not get paid and we have yet to have a month where there was not enough money(other then frivolous spending but that's our own fault).
We have had times when we have tithed "religiously" like that and not spent money on silly things and have had no money for food. But we gave what we could.
I think there can be a bit of legalism and bondage in the 10% thing.
Um to the person who asked, was it Jeanie? Yes for that week if you want to claim your offering on tax they will know how much you have put in that week.
Oh and the money is planned to be spent on things like doing things in the sunday school room, drum kit, upgrading electricity stuff.
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Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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