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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/8/2008 10:58:12 PM
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29redballoons
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For me personally, I believe if one divorces, remarriage should not be an option.
(*edited to add, not being divorced it is easy to voice my opinion, this is not to say the Lord would not and could not show each individual a different path for their lives. I am not being judgemental and do not wish to be taken as such.)
I know a man that was a pastor, a very good one...his wife had an affair, ran off with the man, divorced him, took the children and remarried the other guy. All of this the against the pastor's will, but because of his convictions (he "couldn't shephard his own home, much less a church") he gave up the pulpit and ministers as a lay person and still furthers the kingdom of God...just not as a leader. To me, this appears to be a biblical example.
< Message edited by 29redballoons -- 6/8/2008 11:17:15 PM >
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/9/2008 3:50:49 AM
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nicole6598
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Donna- We have that situation with our Pastor, whose wedding I was at on the weekend. He married our friend. He was married 15 years, has two kids, she left him 3 years ago I think, they have been divorced 2 or 3. So it was a BIG thing for him to remarry. Some people think its wrong, but he didn't want to divorce, but his hand was tied, like Tamara has asked a few posts back.
Its hard because marriage is a covenant and God doesn't take those lightly at all.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/9/2008 7:07:28 AM
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ThursdaysChild
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There was Biblical reason for his divorce though. His wife committed adultery. Therefore he's free to remarry.
As for the example where a man was divorced before becoming a Christian...if he was married, divorced, while still the old Adam, and then became a Christan, remarried,...I'd have no problem with that. Even if he was a Christian who's wife had left him and sued for divorce, even though she had no Biblical reasons for doing so, I'd have no problem with him being pastor or remarrying. He's not the one who sinned, she is.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/9/2008 7:15:52 AM
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lexie
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I don't see a problem with someone remarrying if they divorced before they became a Christian. To me, that was their past, before they came to Christ, something that died and was buried, and now they are a new person.
A woman in one of our churches became a Christian when she was in her second marriage. She had a child with her first husband, and then three kids with the second husband. She left her second husband because she didn't believe that he was her real husband, she believed she should be with the first man, that he is her only husband. Unfortunately for her, the first husband didn't feel the same, and now she is raising 4 children on her own.
Now, that isn't a policy of our church, the church told her that she should remain with the second husband, but that is what she decided to. What a sticky situation. I don't think I've ever heard a church tell someone they need to leave the spouse they were with when they came to Christ, but I'm sure there are some out there that will say that.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/9/2008 9:52:29 AM
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KatMack
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Interesting that this topic has come up this week. Our pastor has preached the last two Sundays on divorce. He's certainly rattled a few cages! (If you're intested, check out the sermons on our website!) I've got to agree with DebbieLynn. I've never seen a Christian School that didn't have the requirement to live by Biblical principles in their personnel handbooks and these two have violated those principles either by divorcing for un-Biblical reasons or by not being open and transparent with those in authority over them (the school admin).
Honestly, I'm still figuring out what churches should do about such situations. I've much prayer and Bible Study to complete before I can comment on that aspect of the debate.
--Kat
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"God will do what God will do. What I'm responsible for is to believe he's all he says he is and obey what he tells me to do. " -magdaleine
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/9/2008 1:55:19 PM
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bride48
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ThursdaysChild
There was Biblical reason for his divorce though. His wife committed adultery. Therefore he's free to remarry.
As for the example where a man was divorced before becoming a Christian...if he was married, divorced, while still the old Adam, and then became a Christan, remarried,...I'd have no problem with that. Even if he was a Christian who's wife had left him and sued for divorce, even though she had no Biblical reasons for doing so, I'd have no problem with him being pastor or remarrying. He's not the one who sinned, she is.
Exactly.
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Ending 2008 and Starting 2009 In Christ Alone (my latest blog entry)
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/9/2008 2:35:13 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Donna- We have that situation with our Pastor, whose wedding I was at on the weekend. He married our friend. He was married 15 years, has two kids, she left him 3 years ago I think, they have been divorced 2 or 3. So it was a BIG thing for him to remarry. Some people think its wrong, but he didn't want to divorce, but his hand was tied, like Tamara has asked a few posts back.
Its hard because marriage is a covenant and God doesn't take those lightly at all.
That's what I'm saying. There are some situations that aren't clear-cut. Just like people who are divorced who never really "consented." They might be Christians, but sometimes if the other person wants to be divorced, a divorce is granted, whether they both wanted one or not. I think it should be taken on a situational basis. The woman can say "I want to separate and not divorce," but the husband can go get a divorce anyway (in some instances). They're technically divorced, but that doesn't mean that's the way they wanted it to be. I'd rather just go on intent and motive, but this is from a person who believes that a Christian can get a divorce and still be a Biblical, true Christian. Not all Christians agree that a divorce is wrong, and I guess I'm one of them. (But I know there are a ton more.  )
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/9/2008 5:44:43 PM
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bride48
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The point is, the school administration obviously had reason to think their divorce didn't meet Biblical criteria. And because these teachers served as examples to their children, it was important to remove them when they divorced.
Jesus only stated one legitimate reason for divorce: adultery. I do think physical abuse is an acceptable reason, since it's life threatening. And 1 Corinthians 7 says that desertion by an unbelieving spouse is grounds for divorce. But your first post about this matter suggested that none of these issues applied to the couple in question.
Marriage is hard. There are times when you think you shouldn't have gotten married. (I'm in a wonderful marriage, and I feel that way every once in a while.) But that's precisely why it's a covenant! When those feelings come, I remember my vows to John...and to God. The Lord holds me responsible for those vows, and I will stand before Him to account for my behavior in this marriage. That's a very fearful reality. I dare not treat my marriage lightly!
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Ending 2008 and Starting 2009 In Christ Alone (my latest blog entry)
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/9/2008 9:34:06 PM
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uponeagleswings
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The associate pastor at our church is divorced and remarried. I don't know the circumstances of his first marriage, although I have the impression that it was pretty short-lived. He's been remarried for some time...at least 7-8 years I'd guess.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/9/2008 10:33:53 PM
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nicole6598
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Sarah your mums situation is like my pastors is, I think he stepped down from his old church and wasn't in ministry til he came to ours last year. The executives of the church denomination here all got together to talk about him remarrying our friend and things. Our church didn't think anything of it really. I think its up to God to judge in the end and our opinions don't really count for much, or as my FIL says "opinions are like armpits, they stink alotof the time" 
I wanted to ask about when people say to you or have they said "I feel that God wants you to do...." or "I believe that you should move here" things like that. It REALLY bothers me when people say that. Because if God is going to do something big in your life like move etc, then He will speak to ME, not telling other people when I have no inkling from God on my own.
What do you say when people say that to you?
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/11/2008 7:18:27 PM
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TwinCityGirl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
I wanted to ask about when people say to you or have they said "I feel that God wants you to do...." or "I believe that you should move here" things like that. It REALLY bothers me when people say that. Because if God is going to do something big in your life like move etc, then He will speak to ME, not telling other people when I have no inkling from God on my own.
What do you say when people say that to you?
Hi, Nicole,
It would really depend on the source for me, but mainly I just smile and make some generic comment if someone says something like that. We've gotten a lot of "Oh, I just *knew* you were going to have a baby!" from people. We were married over 9 years and almost half of that was a known infertility battle....so it always cracks me up when people say they KNEW what was going to happen for us. I'm not sure HOW they "knew" when we kept it private that we were trying to conceive. But the people that tell us this don't mention that God told them this, so that's different than what you are asking.
I would probably just say something back to those people like "God always has a plan for us"....something TOTALLY generic so I'm not confirming that surely God is telling them what I should do but I'm also not starting a debate either. I would imagine many people who would say something like "God told me that you would ------" would be people who have a good intention and are not trying to cause a problem. Intention would matter to me. If I thought a person were just being bossy or just trying to show off that "God told me" kind of thing (like God told ME, not YOU, because God knows me better)...if I got that flavor I would just stick to my generic comment.
If it were from a trusted source (like my mom) I would ask why she thought God was telling her things and want to pursue it further.
Jeanie
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/11/2008 9:29:30 PM
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nicole6598
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Hi Jeanie :)
That's a good idea about the generic vague sort of comment. It shuts them down politely :)
I think its hard to know ones intention though. My in-laws are telling us that they "believe" we are meant to be living over where the rest of them are. We don't believe that we are meant to. God has never told us individually or as a couple to move anywhere, let alone where they are. It is the BEST thing that they all moved because my husband has noone that hovers over him anymore and no shadow to live under, he has become his own man and is growing in God, something he couldn't be able to do with his family around. And we have been blessed here, its not like life is falling apart for us. So why move? And why move there? So they can control us? Uh uh, not for me. His brother does what you said, God knows me better type of thing. Said we were disobeying God as we weren't moving when their Dad was "given a word" by another pastor that all his children would be with him. HELLO! Noone shared that word with us or the others, they are all just following with no real confirmation. Grrr.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/11/2008 10:11:04 PM
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nicole6598
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Exactly, God doesn't manipulate and guilt people.
Hubby said something like "When God tells us to move we will, but until then we are where He wants us to be". He has to say that everytime we see his family though (yes its across the country and away from all my family). And then you get the "oh isn't this place wonderful, there is a really cheap house next door, would be a great buy. Our church is sooooo big now la de da de da". I just feel like rolling my eyes at them. I dont take it as they are excited about where they live but a "our place is better than where you are living" type of thing which ticks me off.
anyway...
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/11/2008 10:33:14 PM
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nicole6598
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Yep Sarah I agree, it is only confirmation. There have been other "words" from people saying the complete opposite that 2 of the children would not follow and then another one was that the mother and father bird have left the nest so the others can fly. So there is one that says we are all meant to be there and others that are against that and which we feel are correct when we look at our situation.
If something was said to me I would stand up for myself, but hubby is not like that with his family at all, he lets them say and do whatever they want 
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/14/2008 12:05:25 AM
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magdaleine
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carry a pad of paper and a pen. Write down your ideas while you're at a red light.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/14/2008 12:14:30 AM
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solo_soprano22
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I think Jewels had a good topic about conjoined twins in the chat thread. :) You may not see it, but in my last reply I addressed it...somewhat.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/15/2008 10:41:25 AM
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lexie
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quote:
I keep coming up with new topics for Kicka while I'm in my car -- then I don't remember them when I get home.
My stepfather goes on really long walks each day, and he always comes up with something he needs to tell someone....and then forgets by the time he gets home (I'm sure he forgets long before that). His daughter bought him a digital recorder so he can record his thoughts while he is out.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/15/2008 3:12:30 PM
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ThursdaysChild
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Lexie- I love your sig. I feel that way about Arabic.
Tamara- I think while the twins are young the parents do have the right to make that decision. We're the parents, period. Who else would decide? Also, how easy would the surgery be when they're older? Is it sometimes a matter of timing? If there's serious risk to their lives with the surgery but their lives would be fine joined, then I'd prefer to wait until they're old enough to decide for themselves. It would also buy medical science time to come up with the proper procedure to make it less risky for them.
I'm sorry, but I keep picturing scenes from "Stuck On You". LOL
Jeannie- Good idea, that digital recorder. Either that or good, old-fashioned pen and paper.
As for people telling you God spoke to them...I'd take it with a grain of salt. Unless it was something you felt nudges toward and this was mostly just confirmation...like Sarah said. Otherwise, I'm thinking it's just a bunch of nonsense. God gave us the Holy Spirit...why would we need someone else?
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Live your life in such a way that every morning when your feet hit the floor...Satan shudders and says..."Oh No...she's AWAKE!"
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/15/2008 3:39:49 PM
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lexie
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quote:
Lexie- I love your sig. I feel that way about Arabic.
Thanks Beth! I can't even imagine how it is for you with Arabic! I heard a comedian use that line and it killed me, because my husband who has a degree in Economics is forever trying to explain it to me, and my family who is Dutch is forever getting me to speak it, and none of it makes sense to me!
On the subject of God speaking to people....I have a question about visions from God. I get that God speaks to people in a variety of ways, and that we all have different gifts. But my understanding is that it is for the edification of the church body.
Well, what if someone says they receive visions from God but that they have been told by God that they are not allowed to share them, or speak on those subjects. That they are seeing things to come, but they have to keep it to themselves? Do you believe that this can be real, or this is coming from somewhere else?
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/15/2008 4:38:50 PM
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solo_soprano22
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The question isn't who should make the chioce, but if the choice to separate them should be made and be morally and ethically sound, and under what conditions.
The risks involved make a big difference, and I understand that sometimes the choice HAS to be made in infancy, but this isn't always the case. Where it's not the case, I think the people themselves (the twins) should decide when they are able. The risks of surgery (or remaining joined) vary depending on the individual twins themselves-- what organs are shared and how they're connected. Sometimes separation isn't feasible unless you let one die knowingly or take a high risk, but these usually happen when they are babies and parents choose (if two babies have one heart, you may separate knowing one will not live; but the risk of leaving them together might be higher that both will die, etc).
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