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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 3:04:08 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
So, you're saying it was part of the induction ceremony?
What's an induction ceremony?
Here in the UK the only people who get inducted are new ministers coming into leadership of a church.
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mvic, January 2009
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 3:24:16 PM
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LaurainAL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: danas_mom
I've asked about that very thing in more than one Baptist church, and the answer is always the same - they do not recognize ANY baptism outside of the Baptist denomination as correct and will require a "re-baptism" for membership.
I don't know about American Baptist churches, but that is *most definitely NOT* the case here in the UK.
It is true of American Baptist churches
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 3:38:28 PM
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Ps103
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Well, the "induction ceremony" *was* the Confirmation 
Confirmations for children are different than for Confirmations for adults.
quote:
quote:
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As long as you are Baptized properly (in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit) most churches that I am aware of accept that.
I've asked about that very thing in more than one Baptist church, and the answer is always the same - they do not recognize ANY baptism outside of the Baptist denomination as correct and will require a "re-baptism" for membership. I think it's baloney, but that's what I was told.
I have heard of Baptist churches that do that, but I have no experience with a Baptist church, so I don't know what particular flavor of Baptist it was. One thing, though--Baptists churches are all pretty much independent, so what is practiced in one church will not necessarily be the same in the next one. Each church is free to determine what they will and will not accept as a requirement for membership.
Manda, you asked "It does however confuse me a bit, because if an adult baptism elsewhere is the equivalent of baptism/confirmation in the Lutheran church, then why doesn't the Lutheran church just baptise adults too?!"
I am not sure I understand this question. If an adult is unbaptized, Lutherans *do* Baptize adults. If the adult is already Baptized, there is no reason to rebaptize him according to Lutheran beliefs (and most others.)
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 4:42:12 PM
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bride48
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danas_mom
quote:
As long as you are Baptized properly (in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit) most churches that I am aware of accept that.
I've asked about that very thing in more than one Baptist church, and the answer is always the same - they do not recognize ANY baptism outside of the Baptist denomination as correct and will require a "re-baptism" for membership. I think it's baloney, but that's what I was told.
The Baptist church I attend accepts any believer's baptism by immersion. In my case, they accepted my sprinkling because I'm in a wheelchair, but that's because immersion wasn't practical. I reject my infant "baptism." I don't see any Scriptural support for such a thing, especially since I wasn't saved until I was 17!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 4:43:25 PM
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VisitorinWaiting
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Most Baptist churches that I know are NOT independent. I have been a member of one Baptist church, gone to many others, and all of them have been under an association. Maybe it's because I'm in the south, I don't know. I do know that my previous church, a Baptist church, did require re-baptism for some of my family members because they were baptized in a different denomination. I thought that was strange.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 4:46:55 PM
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LaurainAL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting
Most Baptist churches that I know are NOT independent. I have been a member of one Baptist church, gone to many others, and all of them have been under an association. Maybe it's because I'm in the south, I don't know. I do know that my previous church, a Baptist church, did require re-baptism for some of my family members because they were baptized in a different denomination. I thought that was strange.
We belong to an association but they don't have any control over the church. It is a way to give to the cooperative program and consolidate funds for missions. Every Southern Baptist Church that I know of is this way. They may make suggestions, but the individual church is not bound by the association.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 5:05:15 PM
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bride48
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
quote:
ORIGINAL: VisitorinWaiting
Most Baptist churches that I know are NOT independent. I have been a member of one Baptist church, gone to many others, and all of them have been under an association. Maybe it's because I'm in the south, I don't know. I do know that my previous church, a Baptist church, did require re-baptism for some of my family members because they were baptized in a different denomination. I thought that was strange.
We belong to an association but they don't have any control over the church. It is a way to give to the cooperative program and consolidate funds for missions. Every Southern Baptist Church that I know of is this way. They may make suggestions, but the individual church is not bound by the association.
That's an essential element of Baptist chuch government, actually. This past year, our pastor taught a Sunday School class on Baptist Distinctives, and church independence was a major point!
Here's an article on church autonomy.
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DebbieLynne
Ending 2008 and Starting 2009 In Christ Alone (my latest blog entry)
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 5:09:10 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
What's an induction ceremony?
Here in the UK the only people who get inducted are new ministers coming into leadership of a church.
Well, it's a ceremony to bring in new members. You stand before the church to confess your faith, vow support to the church, stuff like that.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 5:36:15 PM
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Sideways
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Laura, are you American Baptist? Or Southern Baptist or something else?
There's many different Lutheran synods, too. The ELCA is quite liberal (with women pastors), our synod (Missouri) is more moderate (no female pastors), and the Wisconsin Synod is very conservative - women have no role in that church, they do nothing that even hints at leadership, have no vote, nada. They don't even allow females to greet people coming into church, as it should be a male who welcomes people into church.
Thing is for Lutherans, the confirmation is "a reasoned decision to follow God and are following it through with an outward symbol of that decision" - it just isn't the symbol of getting dunked in the water, but it is a reasoned decision followed by a very public ceremony.
So, for those baptist churches, they are more concerned about the exact symbol, then the actual state of the heart and walk with God.
But a typical confirmation is a serious, year long process (in our church it is a two year process, but that's unusual). For an adult, whose had an adult baptism or has been already confirmed elsewhere, it's nothing more then a short membership class followed by a short ceremony at church - very, very different story.
< Message edited by Sideways -- 6/30/2008 5:45:32 PM >
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 6:11:01 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6162
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
- it just isn't the symbol of getting dunked in the water, but it is a reasoned decision followed by a very public ceremony.
Actually, baptism by immersion is more than just symbolic. The symbolic nature is important, but it also has spiritual significance.
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mvic, January 2009
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 6:15:09 PM
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isaacsmom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: danas_mom
I've asked about that very thing in more than one Baptist church, and the answer is always the same - they do not recognize ANY baptism outside of the Baptist denomination as correct and will require a "re-baptism" for membership.
I don't know about American Baptist churches, but that is *most definitely NOT* the case here in the UK.
It is true of American Baptist churches
Our church isn't like that. *Most* Baptist churches are, but not Free Will Baptists, as we are. We will accept a member upon Believer's Baptism, Profession of Faith (a person has already been saved and baptised at some point in their life) or letter of good standing from another church. So if a person of another denomination wanted to become a member of our church, we would accept their previous baptism (as long as it was Believer's baptism and not infant).
Interestingly, the church my husband and I were thinking of joining was an Independent Baptist church, and even though hubby and I are another type of Baptist, they wouldn't accept our baptisms.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 6:54:41 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: isaacsmom
Interestingly, the church my husband and I were thinking of joining was an Independent Baptist church, and even though hubby and I are another type of Baptist, they wouldn't accept our baptisms.
That to me is just plain weird, even bordering on cultish.
Sounds like they're way too "independent" for their own good.
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mvic, January 2009
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 7:17:13 PM
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isaacsmom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: isaacsmom
Interestingly, the church my husband and I were thinking of joining was an Independent Baptist church, and even though hubby and I are another type of Baptist, they wouldn't accept our baptisms.
That to me is just plain weird, even bordering on cultish.
Sounds like they're way too "independent" for their own good.
LOL, it's not out of the ordinary at all among Baptists here, to my frustration. But that's just the way it is. It turned out fine, though, the pastor respected our decision and understood our dilemma, we stopped attending on good terms. But immediately after that the Lord led us to our current church, where we were meant to be! 
eta: We talked about just continuing to attend, and not necessarily joining, but that posed a problem as well. The church also practiced closed communion, meaning that only a member of the congregation can partake in the communion service. The pastor said he wouldn't necessarily deny us the privelage, but hubby and I didn't feel right about doing so at the risk of upsetting people. Closed communion is fairly common as well. The church we attend/are members of now, Free Will Baptists, practice open communion, meaning that as long as a person is a believer and has examined themselves, they may partake in a communion service even if they are not a member. That's pretty common as well, among some denominations.
< Message edited by isaacsmom -- 6/30/2008 7:28:49 PM >
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 7:28:11 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: isaacsmom
The church also practiced closed communion, meaning that only a member of the congregation can partake in the communion service. The pastor said he wouldn't necessarily deny us the privelage, but hubby and I didn't feel right about doing so at the risk of upsetting people. Closed communion is fairly common as well. The church we attend/are members of now, Free Will Baptists, practice open communion, meaning that as long as a person is a believer and has examined themselves, they may partake in a communion service even if they are not a member. That's pretty common as well, among some denominations.
Every church I've ever attended here in the UK has had an "open table", leaving it up to the individual conscience.
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mvic, January 2009
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 7:41:14 PM
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isaacsmom
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quote:
I would have a serious problem with a church that did not allow non-members to take communion. Demanding membership was not including in Jesus "take eat in remembrance of me" speech.
Hubby and I totally agree (as does the denomination we are members of now).
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*~*~*Rachel*~*~*
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Beware of posing as a profound person -- God became a baby. ~Oswald Chambers
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 8:26:25 PM
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uponeagleswings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
I would have a serious problem with a church that did not allow non-members to take communion. Demanding membership was not including in Jesus "take eat in remembrance of me" speech. 
We faithfully attended and served in many ministries in our church for about 5 years before we became members.
I would have a problem with it too. Its standard practice in Catholic churches (at least as far as I know) that non-Catholics may not take communion there.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 8:33:53 PM
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PrincessDonna
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Well, I wouldn't take communion in a Catholic church anyway, because of major theological differences. But in any protestant church, I would, even if visiting.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 8:44:38 PM
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manda59
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Where we used to live, my dh and I helped organise a rock gospel outdoor weekend event. It was brilliant because we had the co-operation, help and active support of every mainstream Christian denomination in the area.
We wanted to have a giant open-air service on the Sunday morning.
We wanted to have communion there (for up to about 5,000 people).
The Catholic Church who had previously been very supportive suddenly became unsupportive.
They said Catholics would not be allowed to take communion that was blessed and served by non-Catholics. They would not agree to a Catholic priest blessing and serving communion because, in their eyes, only Catholics would be allowed to share in that communion.
A compromise was reached - to have a "sharing of bread" to indicate unity.
But it really really wasn't the same as if we'd shared proper communion. I found it all very sad.
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mvic, January 2009
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 8:53:50 PM
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magdaleine
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Wow! Such a lot of posts since I was last in this thread. I know of churches where immersion is believed to be the correct form of baptism and wanting someone who has been sprinkled to be immersed. I have never heard of churches expecting a person to be rebaptised in order to become a member. That's being far too picky.
The church I raised my kids in and attended for 24 years had a policy about membership that I really appreciated. The only stated doctrine were those points that all Christians believe, except for the most liberal--things like authority of Scripture, plan of salvation, etc. (the Apostles' Creed was repeated every Sunday)--but those doctrines amongst Christians that are open to interpretation were left for each person to decide for themselves. When those subjects were raised in the pulpit the senior pastor was very good and showing the various ways Christians believe--sometimes he'd reveal his own view point but other times he wouldn't. I appreciated that because so many doctrines divide Christians instead of uniting us, which I think is a horrid, horrid thing. Why don't we emphasize what unites us instead of what divides?
When I left that church (God was leading me in a direction that that church felt uncomfortable with) and deciding between several other churches, I asked to see their statements of belief right away. I decided against one particular church because of one stated doctrine (or maybe it was two) that I didn't necessarily disagree with but which I was not prepared to say that that is what I believe. And so, although there were many good things about that church, I didn't return.
It really bothers me when Christians get so very picky about little things. I grew up in a church like that. They refused to come right out and say that all other Christians wouldn't make it to heaven, but they came awfully close and the implication was there. That denomination still proselytizes to primarily other Christians. The list of things I had to agree with when I got baptised there at age 14 was huge and included things like no smoking, no dancing, no make-up, no cinemas, no pork/shrimp, no caffeine and so on. That is ridiculous.
I was rebaptised many years later (both were immersion) because for one, I had felt forced into the first baptism even though at the time I was very devoted to the church and her doctrines; and two, because I had walked away from God for a few years and wanted to restate my commitment to Jesus.
Edited because I spelled "doctrine" as "doctors" in one place. 
< Message edited by magdaleine -- 6/30/2008 9:09:19 PM >
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 8:55:42 PM
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Ps103
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Again, theses are things that one needs to consider when visiting a different denomination or having joint services.
If one group considers Communion to be something entirely different than you do, would it not be out of a false sense of unity to participate?
The last thing I heard in an Anglican church made it clear I could not stay there. The priest (who was a very good Christian and not a part of the bad Episcopal church that everone hears about) remarked that "in the Episcopal church, one is free to believe the Eucharist is whatever one want it to be--one can believe that it is the Body and Blood of Christ, that Christ is present in the Eucharist, that it is simply a memorial, or whatever one believes about it. We are diverse, and we are proud of our diversity."
I was not proud--I was appalled. It meant that there was not even Communion within the congregation.
I have no problem in abstaining from Communion when I know the others present do not agree on what it is.
ETA: This was in response to Manda's post
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 6/30/2008 9:04:06 PM >
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 6/30/2008 9:03:25 PM
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magdaleine
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quote:
I would have a problem with it too. Its standard practice in Catholic churches (at least as far as I know) that non-Catholics may not take communion there.
They have that policy but they have no way of knowing if you're Catholic or not because so many Catholics go to mass only a few times in the year. I took communion once in a Catholic church because it was a wedding.
quote:
The Catholic Church who had previously been very supportive suddenly became unsupportive.
They said Catholics would not be allowed to take communion that was blessed and served by non-Catholics. They would not agree to a Catholic priest blessing and serving communion because, in their eyes, only Catholics would be allowed to share in that communion.
I was at a multidenominational conference that ended with communion. There were a number of Catholics present, including priests and so what was done was that there were two lines--one for the Catholics and one for the Protestants. I too thought it was sad but it was at least a way to compromise and be accomodating.
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. I differ with their stance on alcohol, the literal 10% tithe, etc..... I even wear pants to church (GASP)