RE: Kicka, part 3 (Full Version)

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TwinCityGirl -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 12:09:28 PM)

Dana's mom --

Thanks, that's kind of how I felt in the conversation, too. I think at the time there was a news story about some guy who had done his time for molesting a child and he was released from prison and moved in with a family member. And the people on the block/area/city were going NUTS about him being there.

And I was just trying to say to DH's relative (a mother of 3) that this man had done his time. Like it or not, the man had done his time and he was released and he has to live SOMEWHERE. It would seem natural to me that someone in that place in life would probably try to move in with family as he would likely not have much money or places that would rent to him.

My only point really was the reality of HE HAS TO LIVE SOMEWHERE.

You can wish all you want that there were some island to ship people off to (isn't that part of Australia's roots?), or that people that committed these crimes would just vaporize -- but they don't. They live somewhere, and if they have paid their dues, it might be on your block so you'll need to deal with that.

Or of course, like the others have said, you could already have someone who commits those crimes on your block and that person has never been caught.

I was just feeling kind of bad for this family member who had lived quietly in their neighborhood and let the ex-convict brother move in and then got all this grief. What is that family supposed to do?

I asked this mother of 3 if her brother were convicted of something (wrongly or whether he did it set aside) and he got out after serving his time and wanted to live with them --- THEN WHAT?

Some things in life there just is no easy answer.

Jeanie




nanato3 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 12:27:26 PM)

Jeanie,
You are so right!!!!!!




manda59 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 12:49:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwinCityGirl
You can wish all you want that there were some island to ship people off to (isn't that part of Australia's roots?)



Oh yes.




peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 1:52:23 PM)

quote:

ummm, okay, but if a person has paid their debt to society, what do you do with those people?

send them to Florida[8D]




KatMack -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 1:59:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2

quote:

ummm, okay, but if a person has paid their debt to society, what do you do with those people?

send them to Florida[8D]



Hey! Hey! Watch there, girl! California might be a better idea. It's supposed to break off in a big quake anyways [8D]

--Floridian-Kat




peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 2:02:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatMack

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2

quote:

ummm, okay, but if a person has paid their debt to society, what do you do with those people?

send them to Florida[8D]



Hey! Hey! Watch there, girl! California might be a better idea. It's supposed to break off in a big quake anyways [8D]

--Floridian-Kat

hey, you might be right!!!! my dad used to say California was the Kelloggs state...full of fruits, flakes, and nuts....hehehe....then I married someone from there...roflol




spitzu -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 2:45:51 PM)

Just keep 'em out of Texas. We have enough wackos.




Brandy -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 4:20:26 PM)

Hey leave Cali alone!! We have enough problems. And I live here now!!

Send them to some secluded middle of nowhere area and fence them in. Anyone ever hear/see George Carlin's bit on prisoners and how prison should be?? It's nasty but I have to say I mostly agree with his idea on separation and letting them deal with themselves.


ETA to remove info about youtube, I forgot how nasty his routine is...




uponeagleswings -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 6:36:57 PM)

LOL
I know "they" have to live somewhere, but yeah, I have a hard time with the somewhere being next door to me. I believe that with God anything is possible, but without God...well people who do awful things to children are notoriously hard to rehabilitate. Even if they've paid their debt to society, there is a fair to middling chance of history repeating itself.
On a related issue, I'm not a fan of "3 strikes and you're out" type laws. It seems like most of the people in prison on 3 strikes convictions are in for petty crimes or pretty minor things. Since prisons aren't for rehabilitation, it seems like it would be better to try some sort of outpatient thing to get people to be productive citizens rather than locking them up.

I'm not at my most articulate at the moment, so I hope that makes some sense.




lexie -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 6:57:20 PM)

quote:

I was just feeling kind of bad for this family member who had lived quietly in their neighborhood and let the ex-convict brother move in and then got all this grief. What is that family supposed to do?


My other issue with this topic, that hasn't been mentioned, is there is a varying degree within the registered sex offenders. The person who preys on young children and who enjoys it, I don't want you living next to me or coming near my children.

But my family knew someone personally who was a teacher who was convicted of molesting a student. I'm not going to get into deep details but there was a project the class was doing on anatomy and it involved simulating using a cathater. The teacher inadvertently touched the student there. The teacher went on to win all these awards for the project (this was a couple of decades ago). Then it came out that some other teachers at this school had continually molested students. All of a sudden this was brought to light and he was charged with sexual molestation of a minor.

But he wasn't preying on kids. My family and the community knew this man for years (when I was a child) and never was this something he would have done or did to anyone. But it's now on record that he is a child molester, and that is all people see.




uponeagleswings -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 9:42:07 PM)

I know of teachers who were falsely accused of molesting students or making racial comments (usually students who have a grudge against them for some reason). There is NO "innocent until proven guilty" for many of those teachers. Even a false accusation can get you fired and cost you your teaching license (which basically means you can't ever teach again).
OTOH, I know of at least one classmate who claimed a teacher molested her and the administration flatly refused to believe her, even though from what I know of her she would have had no reason to lie about it.




lexie -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 10:00:12 PM)

Being a teacher these days is very difficult. Dh tells me all these stories about the students....how you just can't be alone with anyone anymore. He had students who wanted him to add them as friends on Xbox Live and he won't even do that. But then, he talks of girls who wear their shirts low and keep their cell phones in their cleavage, and it's to the point where no one can miss it. Yet he can't tell the girl to remove the cell phone because then he can be accused of looking at her cleavage.

They have to watch every action because just in case they give a student a bad mark, who knows what they can come at you with.




uponeagleswings -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/18/2008 10:39:00 PM)

Oh, definitely. Every time I talk with my aunt (who has been a teacher for 25 or so years), I'm glad I'm no longer teaching in schools. Its just crazy.




TammyIsBlessed -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 12:55:36 AM)

For obvious and severe child molestation, I don't think they should be able to get out at all.




nicole6598 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 2:48:07 AM)

Australia actually has its roots in the Aboriginal culture... just wanted to point that out. We aren't a bunch of theives either as some like to tease us about being. Yes theives were sent here, but it quickly became the place to be and I think we are a pretty great country!




ThursdaysChild -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 5:08:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59

Absolutlely!! I had a post all typed up last night saying something similar, but lost it.

I was basically saying that the ones you really need to watch out for are more the ones you don't know about, rather than the ones you do. The ones who haven't been caught yet pose a far greater danger. The ones who may live in your street, go to your church etc

Demonising the ones who've already been convicted could actually lead to a false sense of security.
The fact is that our children could potentially be at risk from anyone - including family, family friends etc (in fact, the incidence of sexual abuse of children is highest with family and family friends - people naturally closes to the child). That's why it's vital to start teaching our children how to keep themselves safe from a very early age.


Don't you hate it when that happens? I figure if I'm going to write a really long post, I need to do it in Word and then cut/paste.

quote:

Exactly. I always recommend THIS book, and just about anything else Gavin de Becker has written. His books on fear are also wonderful...



I agree! It's been years so I need to reread it.

quote:

Australia actually has its roots in the Aboriginal culture... just wanted to point that out. We aren't a bunch of theives either as some like to tease us about being. Yes theives were sent here, but it quickly became the place to be and I think we are a pretty great country!


You go, girl! Actually I think we should send them all to Saudi! LOL

Jeannie, thanks for starting this new discussion. I recently read a novel, fiction, about a man who was accused of rape and did a plea bargain, although he hadn't done anything. The girl had written in her diary about him, the father found it, and instead of fessing up she said he'd done this. So he gets out and has to go register as a sex offender. Once people in the community find out, they start abusing him. He's grabbed from his home and beaten by a group of men in the community (one of whom is sexually abusing his own daughter).

Granted this is fiction but don't for a second think it's made up out of thin air. Many men who are registered end up stalked, attacked, and have horrible things done to them just because of what they did in the past. They aren't saints, but they have as much right to be left alone as anyone else. They're shown no sympathy by the authorities either when this stuff happens. If they abide by the law and register, they're opening themselves up to abuse with almost no legal recourse. If we're going to require these people to register with the local authorities, then we need to make sure they're protected from crime like anyone else. Otherwise the temptation is too great for them not to register and then we have no way of knowing who they are. Granted they're no Jean Valjean, but still.

I agree with the above poster who said that the more serious sex offenders should never be released, but as long as they are, they're still entitled to the same rights as everyone else. The registrations isn't in order to allow their rights to be taken away, but to make sure people know who is nearby who could hurt their children.




ThursdaysChild -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 5:15:11 AM)

Hey, check THIS out. This woman is sure plucky!




JoyfulLady -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 11:31:22 AM)

Coming in a bit late to the conversation, but the topic on where sex offenders should go hits close to home for me. My dad is currently in prison until 2014 for rape of a minor. I don't know many details on what happened, but according to my mom, the charges are a lot more serious than what really happened. But regardless, my dad does have a problem.
All that to say, I have no idea what will happen when he gets out. My mom divorced him and is remarried....she has pretty much told me I should be responsible for helping him out when he's released. He'll be 70-some years old and have nowhere to go. And while I thought he was a wonderful dad until the Christmas I was 19, my opinions changed somewhat then. And I definitely don't think I want him around my child(ren).

Sorry....don't know if there was a point to that post. [8|] Just wanted to point out my side of a situation like ya'll were discussing.




Roberta_ -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 11:39:26 AM)

JoyfulLady- I disagree with your mom. You don't owe your father anything and I don't blame you for not wanting him around your children. Also, there is the possibility that he might not be allowed to be around children when he is released.

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2


quote:

ORIGINAL: KatMack

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2

quote:

ummm, okay, but if a person has paid their debt to society, what do you do with those people?

send them to Florida[8D]



Hey! Hey! Watch there, girl! California might be a better idea. It's supposed to break off in a big quake anyways [8D]

--Floridian-Kat

hey, you might be right!!!! my dad used to say California was the Kelloggs state...full of fruits, flakes, and nuts....hehehe....then I married someone from there...roflol



Hey, we Californians keep like interesting!




magdaleine -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 12:32:57 PM)

{{{{{{Joyful Lady}}}}}}}

I agree with Denim Diva. Don't be guilted or manipulated into doing anything for your dad. You have lots of time to pray and seek God about how you will be involved in your dad's life when he is released, or if you will be at all. You need to take your direction from God who may give you complete release from having any contact with him at all or who may give you the grace and strength to show him mercy. It's really not your mom's place or anyone else's to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. I do believe God will show you if you allow him to.




lexie -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 12:57:44 PM)

Amber - thanks for sharing your story. Like the others have said, you don't owe him anything and your mom shouldn't be telling you what to do. I imagine it's hard for everyone involved. However, if something did occur between him and the minor, no matter what the charges were, your first responsiblity is your children and your home. If you're not comfortable helping your father by having him in your home then that is ok. If there are other ways you can help him then that is great. But that is a decision that can only come about through prayer and is between you and God.

Question:

If you knew someone was going to get married for the sole purpose of getting their citizenship, and there was no talking them out of it, would you report them to immigration?




solo_soprano22 -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 12:59:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TwinCityGirl

Dana's mom --

Thanks, that's kind of how I felt in the conversation, too. I think at the time there was a news story about some guy who had done his time for molesting a child and he was released from prison and moved in with a family member. And the people on the block/area/city were going NUTS about him being there.

And I was just trying to say to DH's relative (a mother of 3) that this man had done his time. Like it or not, the man had done his time and he was released and he has to live SOMEWHERE. It would seem natural to me that someone in that place in life would probably try to move in with family as he would likely not have much money or places that would rent to him.

My only point really was the reality of HE HAS TO LIVE SOMEWHERE.

You can wish all you want that there were some island to ship people off to (isn't that part of Australia's roots?), or that people that committed these crimes would just vaporize -- but they don't. They live somewhere, and if they have paid their dues, it might be on your block so you'll need to deal with that.

Or of course, like the others have said, you could already have someone who commits those crimes on your block and that person has never been caught.

I was just feeling kind of bad for this family member who had lived quietly in their neighborhood and let the ex-convict brother move in and then got all this grief. What is that family supposed to do?

I asked this mother of 3 if her brother were convicted of something (wrongly or whether he did it set aside) and he got out after serving his time and wanted to live with them --- THEN WHAT?

Some things in life there just is no easy answer.

Jeanie


I think part of the problem is that no one knows whose about to be a repeat offender. I tend to want to give others a chance, but with certain crimes I can see not wanting to or being wary. A rapist or murderer for example.... they might have fully repented, changed their lives, gotten treatment...and will never even think of doing something like that again. But most of them say things like that when they get out; I can't tell which are truly changed (and which will never commit more crimes). I guess once you do certain things, you're destined to always have that scarlet letter.

And I think there are people who were convicted of sexual crimes that they didn't even do.... so they have to live the life of a sex offender when they never even did anything.




magdaleine -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 1:08:25 PM)

quote:

If you knew someone was going to get married for the sole purpose of getting their citizenship, and there was no talking them out of it, would you report them to immigration?


That's a dicey one! Does the future spouse know the reason for the marriage? Does the couple have any intentions of staying married and making the marriage a success? It would take a lot of courage to report the person, I'm thinking, and I don't know if I would have what it takes. The thing is, though, if this person shows this kind of flagrancy for the law, in what other ways may he/she do so once he/she has gained what he/she hopes for?




KatMack -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 1:13:49 PM)

I think it would depend on whether they were planning on living as husband and wife. I see nothing wrong with it if they are living as a married couple- faithful to each other, together and committed- even if it's not a marriage of love (honestly, I'm a little "strange" and think Western society places too much emphasis on "love" and infatuation in marriage and not enough on plain ol' mutual respect.)

Otherwise, I would be offended because they were making a mockery of the institution of marriage. I'd probably call anonymously and report them, because, while I'd be upset, I'd also be too chicken to put my name to reporting them. [8|]

--Kat




lexie -> RE: Kicka, part 3 (8/19/2008 1:19:20 PM)

It's a really confusing situation but I'm not sure the future spouse knows the exact reason. Basically the person has run out of all options to stay in the country (through their own doing.) The person has already walked out on one wife and four children, so obviously the institution of marriage doesn't mean anything to them. The only reason they became involved with the current person is they gave them a place to stay, when they had nowhere else to go. So it seems that the girl is in love, but the man is doing this to get his citizenship.

I don't know if I would have the courage to do so, if I did I definitely wouldn't give my name! We have friends though who will be calling immigration if this happens.




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