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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/21/2008 1:08:43 PM
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buckifn
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quote:
"Should kids (teens actually) have to work for money?"
No, kids should not have to work for money. BUT, they should have to work because it is the right ethic to model for others, and because there are many, many, many projects, and needs to be filled in the world. Projects such as Habitat for Humanity, for ex. are excellent choices to have teens involved with.
If working to gain more material possessions for one's self is the sole purpose of working then that is not biblical. But it is biblical to help others, and that is why I have always taken my kids on such mission projects.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/21/2008 1:43:33 PM
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hjemerson
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What a can of wroms. Shiould they work, it really up to the family and the parents. But they should not look down on other who do and should be corrected whan and if they do. Hopefull they will do some service to this life in the active teen and college year , as some have post community sevice, As for the leader of the church hopeful they do not boast of they children need not to having to work. Maybe each of the family has investe as their children grew to have it now or chose just to spend as they want . The Lord must be providing for their needs . As it will for all .Each on their own level. We sended our daughter to a Very Expense Christian college over beening able to attend a state college free WHY was the ansewr many asked we only stated it has to be Gods will or he would not have proved. We both worked a second job and she worked PT for the school. Now she has in turn had to support us thu a time of reeducation for the Work of the Lords . So only Keep the gossip down and see how to chage it in to a postivie .
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/21/2008 11:47:35 PM
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DTM
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So they are getting a free ride. Mommy and Daddy will bail them out f any financial problems they have.
Or they may end up here in a couple of years $50,000 in debt becaue they never learned to manage their money.
Let me guess this is a large church with wealthy income?
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/22/2008 10:52:34 AM
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Ps103
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quote:
So they are getting a free ride. Mommy and Daddy will bail them out f any financial problems they have.
Or they may end up here in a couple of years $50,000 in debt becaue they never learned to manage their money.
Wow--that's like saying "where there is a hatrack, there is a hat."
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/22/2008 1:08:53 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5070
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
What is this really about?
Do the deacons take up the tithes and offering then divide it among themselves?
For some reason I can't help but think that somehow the people in the congregation work hard and give their tithes and offerings to leaders who "spit it up" and have a standard of living that is above the congregates. They use the money collected in the church to increase their personal lifestyle rather than to do the kingdom's work.
If that's not the "real problem" here then the real problem is jealousy.
Deacons and Elders have never been paid in the churches I've attended, so I doubt that is the problem.
I personally don't see anything wrong with the situation except for the fact that people are sticking their noses in business that isn't theirs. If they have a problem, they need to go to the parents not each other in gossip.
Our children will probably be alot like the Deacons kids because we value education and feel that working for good grades is the only "work" they need to be doing in highschool unless they desire to get a job.
_____________________________
Ryanne Gabriella Alexis born 8-22-07!
The opinions stated in the above post are solely mine and in no way should they be
construed as offensive due to your own insecurity.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/23/2008 6:52:27 AM
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10SNE1?
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
If working to gain more material possessions for one's self is the sole purpose of working then that is not biblical. But it is biblical to help others, and that is why I have always taken my kids on such mission projects.
This is a key point that gets missed a lot in these discussions. Many middle class American kids are not working to help out the family or save for college ( or anything else). I'm sure most of you have heard the stats about teenagers and disposable income. It isn't just ( or primary) Mom and Dad handing out free money, it is also teens working for spending money.
I have heard a pretty good argument for the idea that today's typical American teen is actually better off NOT working in high school and being given a reasonable allowance ( tied to family responsibilities) with which to learn money management. Too many of these kids are getting used to having large sums of cash with which to do whatever they please.
It is a rude awakening when they actually have to spend their salary on food, rent and the electric bill with little to none left over for trips to the mall and socializing with friends. Often times that reality doesn't really hit until they have racked up serious consumer debt.
Our kids had summer jobs if they wanted, however, there were several years when family vacations, church and school activities and mission trips took priority over typical teenager jobs. Those summers my husband and I determined a reasonable amount of gas/spending money which we provided. If they " needed" more they always managed to get babysitting jobs or find a friend whose parents were re-landscaping the yard and needed some cheap manual labor 
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/23/2008 9:09:41 AM
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bzirk
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Did any of you see the author of Young Bucks interviewed?
He was on MSNBC and Fox a few weeks ago talking about his book. He outlines several principles for raising children to be good with money. One of the principles he speaks of is giving your kids the gift of want. His point being that kids are just handed things continually and have no reference point for what it takes to have things, so they don't appreciate it, and they have little or no work ethic. I have seen this over and over again across society. Too often things are given to shut a kid up about their wants.
Then too often for the the parents whose kids do have to work in order to have some things, those parents seem to feel guilty about it and sometimes characterize their kids as victims.
Just to reiterate, I think all kids (barring a handicap in doing so) ought to have to work. Whether that's outside the home or not depends on their situation, but they ought to have to work. It really ought to start at home. In my opinion, it is our responsibility as parents to teach our kids a work ethic. Whether that has money attached to it is another matter. It may or may not. But they still ought to have to work regardless of any monies they may or may not receive.
I was appalled that my husband never had to clean his room or do any yardwork, and he was more than able bodied in doing those things. His parents were perfectionists and actually did things for him because they did not have the patience for him to mess things up as he was learning. They didn't want to be bothered, and they thought he would learn by the modeling. They were wrong. Guess who bore the brunt of that lack? Yep, yours truly. Great as my husband is, there were some things we went round and round about when we first married, and this was one of them. In fairness, I've had a couple of shortcomings myself that he's had to put up with. 
< Message edited by bzirk -- 3/23/2008 9:21:02 AM >
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/23/2008 5:47:46 PM
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peace77
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quote:
I think all kids (barring a handicap in doing so) ought to have to work. . . . . .It really ought to start at home.
I agree.
ALL kids should learn how to do chores. Unless the child is a quadraplegic, It doesn't matter if the kid is disabled or not. A child in a wheelchair may not be able to mow the lawn, but they can set the table, make a salad and chop vegetables for a meal. A kid who is blind may not be able to match colors but they can do most anything else.
It can be rather embarassing as an adult when someone is so helpless that they have no idea how to do their own laundry, run a vacuum cleaner or make a decent meal.
Peace,
Anne
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/23/2008 7:43:44 PM
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relady
Posts: 959
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From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
Our children will probably be alot like the Deacons kids because we value education and feel that working for good grades is the only "work" they need to be doing in highschool unless they desire to get a job. I tend to agree with this view. I know with my son, his grades suffered when he tried to take on much of a real job while he was in HS. He did have a job off and on, but as far as teens having to work to support themselves more or less? No, that IS the parents' job. If they want to work for spending money, fine, as long as the grades are there. But parents are still supposed to be supporting their children in HS. And we need to remember that a childs "WORK" is school. I have serious issues with a kid going to school for 6 hours a day, then working for another 4 and then having 3 hours of homework every night. No wonder they get burned out. That's like working 13 hours a day and no one, especially teens should be encouraged to do that. And it doesn't even address the issue of extra curricular activities like band or theater or sports. Sheesh, it borders on workaholism.
quote:
It can be rather embarassing as an adult when someone is so helpless that they have no idea how to do their own laundry, run a vacuum cleaner or make a decent meal. Ha ha, completely agree with this, however. Home chores are a whole other ballgame and every kid should be learning how to care and cook for him or herself.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/24/2008 8:00:53 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Deacons and Elders have never been paid in the churches I've attended, so I doubt that is the problem.
None I have attended have been paid either. However there are many almost "family owned and operated" churches in my area. Every paid position is held by someone who is kin to the pastor and "he" and his family makes the decision about how funds collected will be spent.
quote:
It can be rather embarassing as an adult when someone is so helpless that they have no idea how to do their own laundry, run a vacuum cleaner or make a decent meal.
My son started working in a "job" when he was 3. (family business) By the time he was 9 he held his first checking account and by the time he was 12 he was funding his retirment account, meeting with lawyers, stock brokers and accountants. When he was 16 he paid cash for his first truck and paid for 100% of his living expenses other than medical insurance and whatever it cost his father and I to "house" him. When he was 18 he paid cash for his first home (custom built that he oversaw) and has never borrowed a penny of money from anyone.
I never made him do household chores. It didn't take him long being on his own to figure out how to do his own laundry, use a vaccum cleaner or have someone prepare a decent meal for him. What he does know is how to run and operate a business, how to spot good employees and hire them with a salary that will benefit both him, the employee and the other employees, how to trade stocks, evaluate a business deal, oversee workcrews on exteremely high dollar projects and so on. Doing laundry is something that he can pay someone min. wage to do if he ever decides that he is tired of doing that. (he can even get a HS kid to do that stuff for him)
I had many many many friends who told me I was "wrong" not to teach my son how to "clean his room" or "keep up the yard". Today they are still spending money to help their children learn how to "make a living" - handle "credit" and so on, while I on the other hand don't spend a penny to educate or support my son. He has been completely on his own now for 2 years. He is 20. I don't know of anyone who considers him to be "helpless".
Nor does he "regret" the way he was raised. He plans to teach his children how to be self-sufficient and responsible at an early age as well.
I am not going to tell other parents that they "should" raise their children like I have raised mine. But I sure wish more young adults were able to contribute to society rather than just be babies in the water.
quote:
Then too often for the the parents whose kids do have to work in order to have some things, those parents seem to feel guilty about it and sometimes characterize their kids as victims.
I realized that when my son was very young and in our class at church the poorer the parent was the more "guilty" they felt no only about making their children work but not being able to purchase for them expensive "toys" like 4-wheelers and the like. I on the other hand felt no guilt at all and was glad my son was learning how to live in the world and be a productive member of society at a young age.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/24/2008 8:20:11 AM >
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 11:31:05 AM
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bzirk
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
...the poorer the parent was the more "guilty" they felt no only about making their children work but not being able to purchase for them expensive "toys" like 4-wheelers and the like.
This is what I've seen.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 11:37:35 AM
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bzirk
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As for not doing chores as a kid, my husband did his own housework just fine when he was on his own for seven years, but when we married, he lapsed into what he had been raised to do -- not be responsible for his own surroundings but have someone else pick up his stuff. I feel sorry for the wives of men who have been raised like this, because unless the wives stick to their guns and refuse to compensate for the irresponsibility, their husbands will usually continue in irresponsibility.
Not saying all men will respond that way to lack of training, but it seems a lot do. Plus, it just seems very fair to make a kid pull their share of the weight when they live in a household. It's hard to teach that when they're older, so best to start young.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 11:51:23 AM
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P31W
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quote:
I feel sorry for the wives of men who have been raised like this, because unless the wives stick to their guns and refuse to compensate for the irresponsibility, their husbands will usually continue in irresponsibility.
Again it all depends. I grew up with a maid, yard man and livein babysitter. So for my family there is no reason to feel "sorry" for me or my mother, aunt or grandmother. I know how to use a phone. I don't believe it's irresponsible to not choose to do everything around your home when it's much more efficient and cheaper to hire it out. My husband and son time is simply worth more than someone elses. (Example my son and husband won't work for min. wage but our housekeeper will)
Let's put the shoe on a "woman's foot" now. Do you honestly believe Paris Hilton's mother makes us her own bed or forced Paris to? Do you feel sorry for her husband to be?
Times have changed. Sometimes it only makes sense to buy milk from the store than it is to raise your own cow and milk it before you run off to the office.
quote:
Plus, it just seems very fair to make a kid pull their share of the weight when they live in a household.
What? Are you talking in response to my thread? My son was while in HS bringing into our family six figures per year. The kid does know who to make money. Believe me he has not cost his father or I money since he was about 15. Rather he still to this days helps to make us "all" a very fine living.
To be completely honest with you here it anyone is not pulling their fair share it would be me. They have spoiled me rotten.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/25/2008 12:02:03 PM >
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 11:57:32 AM
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bzirk
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Aah, but I didn't say someone should do everything in the house. However, there is a certain amount of responsibility that should be taught, and how plays out in particular chores is up to the family.
Plus, I don't think all men respond the way my husband did just most IMO. So yeah, I'm saying there are some men who do not have to pull their weight at home with household chores while growing up who can pick it up later and not create a problem or be condescending to their spouse or others. Those men are the exception IMO. Notice most of this is my opinion based on what I've seen. If your son is the exception to the seeming rule, I'm glad.
I also think a kid should never be taught to feel they're too good to do something like household chores. Not saying your son was taught that at all, but I could easily conclude that from your comments about paying someone minimum wage to do laundry.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 12:01:27 PM
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P31W
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quote:
I also think a kid should never be taught to feel they're too good to do something like household chores. Not saying your son was taught that at all, but I could easily conclude that from your comments about paying someone minimum wage to do laundry.
LOL remember my son began working at age 3. He attended a private college prep school. He was the "only" one in his class who "had to work after school". He was the "only" one in his class who didn't get a new car/truck when he turned 16. He was the "only one" who cut his own checks for his tuition.
What the comment is about is wrong views of what is "more important". What is more important having a 17 yr old know who to use a vaccum cleaner or having one who understands how to make a living incase his parents drop dead.
I am dealing with too many 25 year olds who graduate from college and have no LIFE SKILLS> Yes their apt. may be well decorated and they drive nice cars but when it comes to reading the simple "fine print" on the CC they applied for they are idiots.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/25/2008 12:09:05 PM >
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 12:05:09 PM
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bzirk
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I'm not saying your son thinks he's too good. I've said as much in my previous post. I'm taking exception to the way your remarks can possibly make him sound.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 12:08:26 PM
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LaurainAL
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P31W: I am curious as to what your son does? He sounds very smart.
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 12:20:34 PM
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P31W
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We are self employed. We own and operate several differant "types" of businesses. We knew that if he didn't want to go to college and become a "professional" doctor, lawyer or the like he would more than likely take over our businesses. Therefore from an early age we have exposed him to everything about all our businesses and the ones we look into buying but do not. He also has a very wealthy uncle who named our son sole beneficary in his will. Had he died our son would have inherited several million dollars in cash and assets. We felt it was important for us to "prepare" him as best as possible for this so that he would not end up some sad statistic because he didn't understand money.
He also know in HS who in his class owned us money and was past due. Who's name was in the credit report over and over again and who was being sued for not paying their creditors. We believed that it was important that he know that all that glitters is not gold.
I don't have a clue what his IQ is? He is not smarter than your average 20 year old in that way. Rather he has just been exposed and taugh more than most. More responsiblity has been placed on his shoulders than on most kids his age. By the time he was 19 he was over all our employees and the hiring and firing.
He hit puberty when he was in the 3rd gade. When he was 12 one of our competors tried to "steel him away" from us after watching him on a job site with a crew of men. Our competor ended up calling us because he had to tell us that when our son opened his mouth to say "I will have to ask my Dad" he almost fell out. He had just offered what he now realized was a young kid a $25.00 per hour job with O-time.
We simply raised him the way most farm kids were raised. They were raised to start working at an early age and learn as much as possible as soon as possible incase their parents died and they were left to fend for themselves.
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/25/2008 12:28:31 PM >
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 12:25:56 PM
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crankius
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Do you honestly believe Paris Hilton's mother makes us her own bed or forced Paris to? Do you feel sorry for her husband to be?
YES!!!
But for many reasons--not just because she doesn't make her own bed.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
IS CHURCH YOUR IDOL?
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 12:40:26 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2901
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
What the comment is about is wrong views of what is "more important". What is more important having a 17 yr old know who to use a vaccum cleaner or having one who understands how to make a living incase his parents drop dead.
It is possible to do both. In fact, one of the things my parents wanted for me and for my brother was for us to be self sufficient in no matter what situation we found ourselves. I want the same for my kids. It sounds like your son can do the same in being self-sufficient, and I'm glad. But if for some reason he ever found himself needing to wash dishes or clothes, I'm assuning he would do it without feeling like it was beneath him.
quote:
I am dealing with too many 25 year olds who graduate from college and have no LIFE SKILLS> Yes their apt. may be well decorated and they drive nice cars but when it comes to reading the simple "fine print" on the CC they applied for they are idiots.
I hear you about too many 25 year olds. Hear you loud and clear, but I guess I don't know what decorating and driving a nice car have to do with someone pulling their weight in a household.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 12:45:23 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 2901
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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To pull this back to topic, I think it's not fair to judge another household by what I do. Like P31W for instance. We disagree, but it's okay. I truly do believe she's got a great son, and it's not my place to judge her way of getting to a good point with her son. I wouldn't do it that way, but I haven't corned the market on THE way to do things. LOL!!
But no matter how we teach a work ethic, I believe there are principles in scripture that encourage us to have a good work ethic, and it's absurd if we don't pass that on to our kids. We are remiss if we don't do this.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/25/2008 12:54:54 PM
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crankius
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Bzirk,
Goodness--you've met my husband!
He was raised in a household where he didn't have to do anything! His mother had the view that she would do everything, and she also believed her kids should get the best of everything.
Thankfully, God helped my husband grow out of this mindset starting before we were married. He has chores in the house and he appreciates how the kids have chores each day. He and I are purposefully raising our kids to be diligent in the small things, and we purposefully have limited the amount of consumerism in our household.
It will be interesting to see what they think of our decisions when they grow up. For now, they don't know any better and think it's all perfectly normal.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
IS CHURCH YOUR IDOL?
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/26/2008 8:53:46 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1919
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quote:
But if for some reason he ever found himself needing to wash dishes or clothes, I'm assuning he would do it without feeling like it was beneath him.
He does wash is own cloths and do his own dishes. Unless of course he had hired someone else to do that for him. I simply don't know for sure. He may even have a girlfriend do that for him. He has been on his own 7 months after he graduated from HS. He may also be wearing dirty cloths and eating out at McDonalds most of the time. Whatever he is doing he is able to survive on his own. I did notice a yard service was keeping up his yard.
It's not a matter of what he feels is beneath him rather for "us" as a family its what does he need to do inorder to survive in this world. Not many people can survive in this world by telling their potential employer they know how to make a bed or they graduated from HS with all A's and was the captatin of the track team. (I've never asked a potential employee any of those types of questions and what they did in HS is of no value to me...I want to know how they can contribute to the company and make money for all of us)
We also as parents must face the fact that if our teenagers are in the world without us they may well be involved in sex. I have given more baby showers for girls whose mothers flat out told me their daughters were "saving themselves for marriage" and now they have to raise a baby along with their own now "young adult" who is unable to provide for themselves much less another human being.
quote:
To pull this back to topic, I think it's not fair to judge another household by what I do. Like P31W for instance. We disagree, but it's okay.
Completely agree! Notice what I said back in the origional post where I told how we chose to raise our child.
"I am not going to tell other parents that they "should" raise their children like I have raised mine. But I sure wish more young adults were able to contribute to society rather than just be babies in the water. "
What "I" want as a citizen of the US and a taxpayer is for people who raise "adults" (that's 18 years old in this country) who don't depend upon others for their survival. Now in that I do believe I have a voice. Parents who can't raise their "adults" to survive on their own need to provide for those 18 and over ---with their "own family money" and not look to me or my son to provide for them. If you do that it's perfectly fine with me. Just don't expect others to provide for an adult that you were responsible for insuring they were responsible adults.
quote:
I guess I don't know what decorating and driving a nice car have to do with someone pulling their weight in a household.
Too much importance in a family given to "appearance" and not substance. There was an old saying that use to go around when I was younger "If you look good you feel good, if you feel good you do good, if you do good, you are good".
< Message edited by P31W -- 3/26/2008 9:36:23 AM >
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/26/2008 11:19:24 AM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 4885
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
Status: online
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Oooh! Oooh! I can do better! *jumps up and down* I, as a girl, was never taught how to do basic housework or anything like that. I even moved out for college and my mother would come clean my house and take care of my cats. It wasn't until I got married that I had to learn to clean. But that's a whole other story.
I didn't know what a toilet brush was, I didn't know how to mop or dust and when my ex husband asked me to, "polish the furniture" I went to work in tears thinking I would have to whip out the saddle soap or something.
So as a parent I try to teach my boys how to be a bit more self sufficient. My problem is that my boys are with my parents ALL THE TIME and my father doesn't think that boys should learn that stuff because it's, 'the woman's job'. While I agree I did tell him it would be a disservice to them because they aren't going to be able to send their laundry home for mum to wash when they go to college. They'll actually have to do it themselves. Not to mention what a disservice it would be for their future wives (as we are plainly hearing here).
Now, as far as the OP is concerned, it's no one's business what other parents are doing with their children, at least in these types of situations. I don't know the whole story but as an adult now I don't think too highly of the way my parents raised me in this regard whereas my brother had to work from the age of 15 and purchase his own car, prom rentals and flowers, clothes, all that stuff. Perhaps those parents could be enlightened to some experiences of others. *shrug*
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RE: Should Church Leader's Kids Have to Work? - 3/26/2008 11:40:12 AM
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P31W
Posts: 1919
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't know the whole story but as an adult now I don't think too highly of the way my parents raised me in this regard whereas my brother had to work from the age of 15 and purchase his own car, prom rentals and flowers, clothes, all that stuff.
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I, as a girl, was never taught how to do basic housework or anything like that. I even moved out for college and my mother would come clean my house and take care of my cats.
ROFL so you really were raised to be a "princess". Men are to work and women are to look pretty.
I was spoiled too but I did know how to run a house at the age of 13. My parents both worked and they let our maid go for the summer. The job fell on me as the oldest girl. For me it was "play" but I only "had" to do it for one summer. The boys all worked and earned money.
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