"Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (Full Version)

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CT23 -> "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/19/2008 9:15:35 PM)

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/CCM/carrie_underwood.htm

While the grammar isn't perfect here, I thought this was an interesting article on Carrie Underwood.

Do you think he has a point?




Terath -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/19/2008 11:50:57 PM)

Wow. Even though I agreed on most of the points, this is one of the most hate-filled works I've ever read, Christian or not. Why do I think that? Take a look at some of the wordings.

quote:

I think the image of Underwood and "SELF magazine" is an appropriate description of her personal testimony. Notice the words on the magazine she is promoting..."sexier"..."rich"..."American idol." Is this conducive of a young lady who is serving the Lord?

Nothing particularly bad here. This is where most of the work should dwell.

quote:

Only a total heathen fool would contend that partially exposing a woman's breasts is acceptable.

Alright, I agree that's it's rather un-Christian to take part in such photo shoots, but has the writer ever heard of tact? There's a better way to say that. I felt offended, and I agreed with it. Imagine if someone disagreed with it.

quote:

In fact, most people who go to church are religious; BUT, lost without Jesus Christ, and on their way to Hell to burn forever.

Again, true, but this isn't the place for a "fire and brimstone" speech. Better to combat such things with soft words that cary power rather than strong words that only offend.

quote:

Might offend some fans if you DEFINE your beliefs huh Carrie?

Perhaps not, but it would offend the record label. Don't forget that once you're signed on, you're mostly their tool. There's some personal choice involved, but don't even think that an artist, especially in the pop industry, has full control over their work. My guess is that even the most pious and open Christian wouldn't be able to say such things if they were signed to the same label. Idol winners are controled from the moment they enter the contest, because the same companies own Idol and the record label they are get the deal to.

I won't quote the paragraph on Catholics, simply because I take issue with the whole thing. I get the feeling, when I read it, that the writer is trying to make out Catholics to be part of a cult. Not so. Catholics have some details that are extraneous when compared to Protestantism, but isn't their core doctrine correct? They believe in God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all as a part of the Trinity, correct? I can't say for sure if all Catholics are saved, but I can't say the same for Protestants either. To attack Catholics on such a flimsy basis just shows ignorance. Tell me where in the Bible it says it is wrong to have a priest talk to God for you. There is no basis for it in Scripture, absolutely, but is harmful? No. It may be doctrinely incorrect, but that doesn't condemn them. The only place I really take issue with Catholics is on the issue of worshipping Mary. Even then, you don't try to make them angry with hateful words.

quote:

The Apostles NEVER sang the Gospel to anyone, they spoke it. There is NO mention of singing on the Day of Pentecost, when at least 3,000 souls were saved.

So? That's not to say they never sang. I suppose that makes it wrong to sing as a way to send a Godly message? Don't forget, many of the Psalms were designed to be sung. And the Bible does mention singing in Heaven in Revelation, if I'm not mistaken. Singing in the Bible is more often than not used as a medium to praise God than to convey a message anyway, am I right? So even if the music ultimately means nothing, there's no reason to spout of such comments. Again, tact would definitely improve this article.

quote:

When someone like Carrie Underwood, who claims to be a Christian, who grew up in church, who sings about Jesus, and yet FAILS to put forth the Gospel of Jesus Christ--something is very wrong. Please read my article, Religious Rock; NOT, Christian Rock. Is it too much to ask, for professed "Christian" entertainers to present the simple plan of salvation on their websites? Yes, because they would be REJECTED by the world. Don't be fooled! Any professed "Christian" entertainer that fails to present the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ is serving mammon (money), Not God.

Yes, it would be too much. The record labels control the artist, plain and simple. Just because they sing for a secular audience and sing "spirutual" or "religious" songs doesn't make them servants to money. You'll need more evidence to back up such heinous charges against a fellow Christian.

quote:

I did not write this article to be unkind, nor to personally attack Miss Underwood in any way. I only wrote this article because when ANYONE claims to be a Christian, and is influencing millions of people Like Carrie Underwood, they must accept the great responsibility that goes alone with such fame. Carrie Underwood has the POWER of influence over people, and I believe she is sending a horrible message to young people today. I believe it is utterly hypocritical for Carrie Underwood to sing about "Jesus Taking The Wheel," while at the same time promoting "SELF magazine." You can't have it both ways Miss Underwood! Either you're going to follow the Lord Jesus Christ and His Word, or else you're going to follow YOURSELF. Self has no place in the Christian's life, "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me" (Matthew 16:24). The "cross" which Jesus spoke of is the PERSECUTION mentioned in John 15:19, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." The Apostle Paul stated in 2nd Timothy 3:12, "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." This is the cross which Jesus expects each of us to bare. We should all speak the Truth of God's Word to lost sinners, and the Truth often makes people mad.

I find this humourous, claiming not to want to attack anyone, then going right on ahead and attacking full force. And while Jesus did urge to deny ourselves, what does "ourself" mean? Unless I'm mistaken, in this verse it means our sin nature and our own desires, right? So how does singing this song make her somehow promoting herself? We are to expect persecution, but there's no need to invite it.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not even a fan of Carrie Underwood, this song, or the genre entirely. But I think that this article is more filled with the author's hatred for music that doesn't praise God directly every five seconds. Why do I say this? I just gave the rest of the site a read, and I was appalled and disgusted. I though this was bad when I first read it. I would suggest staying away from anything that has to do with music on this site, because the words are so hateful I'm somewhat loathe to quote them. Note: The faint of heart should not read further.

quote:

There's no FILTH in America today as immoral, and indecent, as Country Music television (CMT). To no surprise, CMT often features the immoral and lascivious filth of HEE HAW. They ought to be called the "HEE HAW Whores" instead of the "HEE HAW Honeys." God only know how many families have been destroy by the influence of the godless whores on HEE HAW. Of course, God-hater and whoremonger, Hugh Hefner, has been honored on the HEE HAW show. Hell will be hot!

Now, I'm not a fan of CMT or th show, but for anyone to spew such vile filth is unforgiveable.

quote:

During a 1993 Oprah Winfrey interview, Michael Jackson, explained the reason for some of his filthy sexual gestures during his concerts:

"It happens subliminally. IT'S THE MUSIC THAT COMPELS ME TO DO IT. You don't think about it, it just happens. I'M SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM."
(The Evening Star, Feb. 11, 1993, p. A10)

Nothing about the lyrics! It's the MUSIC!

How can the Holy Spirit of the Bible use such wicked, fleshly music!

Regardless of the lyrics!

This is just an excuse by Jackson for what he does, but to latch onto to it as truth, and then use it to justify his hate is equally sickening.

I must admit, some of this garbage does make me laugh. The "satanic salute" that he harps on so much can mean many things. He claims Bush is part of the Illuminati or someting because he threw the horns at his inaguration. Bush said it was the Texas U "hook'em horns," to which the author is skeptical, but doesn't openly refute. The the article goes on to say does this or this or this person- a list of at list 50 different people-have anything to do with Texas U? Well of course not. People throw the horns for different reasons. Some use it as an honest to goodness satanic gesture. Those from Texas U use it to support their sports teams. In Italy, it was a prank akin to "bunny ears." (They invented it by the way-no Satanic meaning here) For metal fans, it is not a praise of Satan, but it simply means "That's metal, and I'm rocking" sort of thing. And then he goes so far as to say Hellen Keller developed the "I love you" hand sign as a prais to satanic imagery. Again, vile despicable insults against perfectly normal events and people.

Also, I happened to read about the author's thoughts on "The Number of the Beast," by Iron Maiden, perhaps the mot misunderstood song in history. The song came from one thing, and one thing only: a dream Bruce Dickinson had. Not a satanic, evil, whatever dream. Just a bad dream. The quote that he claims has been used about every contraversial song Iron Maiden's ever maid. It reall has nothing to do with a specific song. The majority of their catalouge involves songs such as "Sign of the Cross," "Phantom of the Opera," "Rime of the Ancient Mariner," "Aces High" (WWII from the perspective of a British pilot), and "Flight of Icarus." Iron Maiden revels in songs about famous works of literature, history, etc. And the song in question is warning against Satanism, not a promotion for it. This is a view also held by Nicko McBrain, the current drummer of Iron Maiden, who is an open Christian. This author has a self professed hate for anything he disagrees with. Certainly not a picture of Christian love.

He also cites a quote from dc Talk stating that they would like to talk to Marilyn Manson about 80's music sometime, and construes it as a support for his work. If I wanted to talk to Anthony LaVey about, say, his kids, does that make me a Satanist? I should sure hope not.

I could go on, but you get the point. The author is simply prejudiced. I would disregard anything said by him unless backed up by Scripture, and relevant Scripture at that. I haven't seen much relevant scripture, or even an attempt to look at any other view but his own.




Rufas2000 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/20/2008 7:47:01 AM)

I think you have this gentleman's / site's number. When you start with such an extreme position as "all rock is evil, even if it has Christian lyrics" then you have to go to great lengths to prove that each and every Christian rocker "fails the religious test".

This site is a clearing house for extreme conservative theology. A monument to the intolerance, hatred & intellectual dishonesty of a few Christians (I won't judge their sincerity) who give all of us a bad name and do irreperable damage to the Christian cause (for lack of a better word, that cause being to seek, love and point to the One who can save the lost).




Rufas2000 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/20/2008 7:49:45 AM)

quote:

Do you think he has a point?


when you express yourself with such vile hatred it automatically cancels any "point" you were trying to make. Even if parts of it are correct haters sacrifice their moral authority & integrity on the altar of their intolerance & hatred.




krazyxsinner -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/20/2008 8:00:29 AM)

quote:

Tell me where in the Bible it says it is wrong to have a priest talk to God for you.



1 Timothy 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,




Terath -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/20/2008 8:50:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: krazyxsinner

quote:

Tell me where in the Bible it says it is wrong to have a priest talk to God for you.



1 Timothy 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Well, it was more of a rhetorical question aimed at the author of this work, but since you brought it up: Yes, this is true. I would agree with it. But just like any other denomination, I'm sure they are very convicted of their interpretation. Not all Protestants agree on such issues; to say that all of *insert denomination here* are going to Hell because they differ on a few points of doctrine would be simply wrong. Now, some doctrine is simply fundamental, i.e. the Trinity, deity and manhood of Christ, etc. However, I believe that is a relatively minor issue. I am certain that Catholics have as good a chance of getting into Heaven as the majority of Christians here in America. And then he goes on to bash other religions such as Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons. Now, I don't believe that the majority of them are born again, but there's no need to proclaim that anyone who disagrees on the slightest points is going to Hell. Imagine if we applied this to politics: it's called a tyranny, a dictatorship. There's only one man who ever lived to whom I would trust such authority, and that man is Jesus Christ. Such wrath and anger against fellow human beings is God's place, not ours. This man hurts his own testimony, and by association, the testimony of each and every Christian. How many unsaved people could we ever each if they read this website? For some people, we are attacking them, despising them, at their very core. Is that a Christian attitude? Even though we are certain we are right, so is the majority of the human race. You don't change their mind by vehemently screaming, "YOU ARE WRONG AND GOING TO HELL!!" You change their mind by showing them they are wrong. You simply live your life as a testimony to Jesus Christ, and if they are chosen by God to be one of his children, then they will be. After all, aren't many missions in hostile countries hospitals? We simply show them Christian charity, Christian love, and show them what we believe from the Bible. Those who have hard hearts will turn away no matter what you say. Those who's hearts have been prepared by God will listen, and even if they deny Christ then, the seed is planted and work can continue with them. We get nowhere if we kill with words, with our hatred. We simply show the light, guide them to the path, and let the Holy Spirit convict them.




ravneskrik -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/20/2008 8:57:04 AM)

The very fact that it's on jesus-is-savior.com means I'm not even going to read it ... that site is right up there with av1611.org for being full of misrepresentations, lies and just pure hatred for anything the creator of the site doesn't agree with.




gaylel1 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/20/2008 9:44:07 PM)

Why do you folks read these sites? Stay away from them and spend your time somewhere else, like praying for these artists.




CT23 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/21/2008 4:37:11 AM)

I don't know all that much about this site, I just found this article on Carrie Underwood when interestingly I was searching for what her religion was (I was just curious).

I'll echo some of the sentiments here: I would agree with a lot of the sentiment he wrote about Carrie (i.e., she should probably dress more modestly, be careful of being called "Idol", maybe even mention her belief in Jesus once on her website); but he could have expressed himself a lot better IMO.




Rufas2000 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/21/2008 7:35:02 AM)

I actually read the article and for the record that was the most loving, tolerant article on that website (aside from the anti-Catholic rant). If thats the case, imagine how hateful the other articles are.

I suspect our friend at this site has become more media savvy and figured he may want to tune down the hateful rhetoric for the Carrie Underwood article. This kinda serves as a gateway article to the site. The OP is a prime example, he foundit looking for info on Carrie Underwood, a very big star. Once you find the article, the hope is that you'll check out the other articles on the site and buy into that way of thinking.

The reason I read it once in awhile is that its good to keep tabs on what these people who give Christians (and Jesus by extention) a bad name are up to. Scouting the enemy so to speak.




tafkam -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/21/2008 10:05:50 AM)

quote:

i.e., she should probably dress more modestly, be careful of being called "Idol", maybe even mention her belief in Jesus once on her website


Well, I'm not a fan of Carrie, but I will say that I have yet to see her dressed immodestly (and all you have to do is check out any number of other pop stars to see what I'm getting at), she rose to fame due to a show called (get ready) "American IDOL", so it a natural assumption that this word is going to be used in conjunction with her promotion.

Lastly, her website is probably assembled and maintained by her record company, and they dictate what content is put there. In any case, I'm not worried that she doesn't have some sort of "Jesus stamp" on her site...I've heard her speak enough to be aware of her faith.

Where does it end? Do we then require her to put statements of faith on every CD, tour shirt, speaker cabinet, sound console, and lighting rig, just to make sure everyone at her concerts gets beaten over the head with the "Hey, everybody, I'm a Christian!" mantra?

You know, "Jesus Take The Wheel" probably reached more unsaved folks than every song put out by the entire Christian music industry combined that year. And here people are still complaining.

Here's a novel idea, let's just let the girl sing, and pray for this nice young Christian lady who has been given a giant platform from which to shine.

Or does that make too much sense?




Terath -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/21/2008 10:36:01 AM)

Knowing some people, like the author of this article for example, it probably does make too much sense...




uncabeeil -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/21/2008 12:25:40 PM)

quote:

be careful of being called "Idol"
The girl won a competition called American "Idol". Going by your standards she shouldn't have even entered because the possibility of being called an idol was there. Sorry, but that's as narrow minded thinking as the guy who wrote the article. Show me something where she calls herself an idol and maybe I'll agree with you.




gtrdave -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/21/2008 12:33:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaylel1

Why do you folks read these sites? Stay away from them and spend your time somewhere else, like praying for these artists.


Amen.

Some folks have a difficult time seeing reality for what it is:
1. singer sings song with "Jesus" in the title
2. people assume that the above circumstance automatically means that said singer is a Christian
3. maybe, just maybe, said singer is just an entertainer who happened to sing a potential hit song that would help make her a star...maybe she's a Christian, maybe she's not...regardless, let's judge her if she doesn't fit our definition of what a Christian is
4. as a result, some people are extra critical about the sawdust in other people's eyes and like to post their criticisms on the web
5. said critics find e-fans of their opinions on teh intarweb and those fans flood message boards with opinions




CT23 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/22/2008 5:56:22 PM)

Just because I read one article of the guy doesn't make me a fan of him.
When I said Carrie should be careful about being called idol, I never meant she shouldn't be on AI, I just meant she should not grow arrogant or prideful (which to my knowledge she hasn't).
And just because if I were her I'd mention my belief in Jesus on my site does not mean I think she has to say Jesus every other sentence or something. And I'm not really condemning her for that, just saying it's something I might do.

So please don't lump me in with this author or call me as narrowminded as him okay? Prior to this I'd never even heard of the site and I'm not going back.

Also, I am a fan of Carrie Underwood and have prayed for her in the past. So this post wasn't meant to be some anti-Carrie rant.




Rufas2000 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/22/2008 6:38:16 PM)

quote:

So please don't lump me in with this author or call me as narrowminded as him okay? Prior to this I'd never even heard of the site and I'm not going back.


I for the record never thought you agreed with the beliefs presented or the way they were presented. Thoughtful consideration of perspectives beyond your own is a good thing. Having said that, its probably best if we all stay away from that site.




SD456 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/23/2008 10:18:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tafkam

quote:

i.e., she should probably dress more modestly, be careful of being called "Idol", maybe even mention her belief in Jesus once on her website


Well, I'm not a fan of Carrie, but I will say that I have yet to see her dressed immodestly (and all you have to do is check out any number of other pop stars to see what I'm getting at), she rose to fame due to a show called (get ready) "American IDOL", so it a natural assumption that this word is going to be used in conjunction with her promotion.

Lastly, her website is probably assembled and maintained by her record company, and they dictate what content is put there. In any case, I'm not worried that she doesn't have some sort of "Jesus stamp" on her site...I've heard her speak enough to be aware of her faith.

Where does it end? Do we then require her to put statements of faith on every CD, tour shirt, speaker cabinet, sound console, and lighting rig, just to make sure everyone at her concerts gets beaten over the head with the "Hey, everybody, I'm a Christian!" mantra?

You know, "Jesus Take The Wheel" probably reached more unsaved folks than every song put out by the entire Christian music industry combined that year. And here people are still complaining.

Here's a novel idea, let's just let the girl sing, and pray for this nice young Christian lady who has been given a giant platform from which to shine.

Or does that make too much sense?


Carrie is a very good example of a christian. "Jesus Take the Wheel" was a beautiful song that makes me cry every time I hear it, and I agree with you, it has reached more people than any christian song ever has.

It's ridiculous for some in the church to believe that christian musicians have to use their music has a preaching tool. No where in the bible does it say that. They would only do that if God called them to the office of an evangelist, and many are not called to that in the music industry. There witness is to those around them who know them personally more than anything else.

And a christian woman who shows a bit of cleavage is not in sin. We are a curvy creation and I don't believe it's immodest when some of curviness is noticed.....I guess we could all wear layers of wool gunny sacks to hide our bodies to please the traditionalists out there.




tafkam -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/24/2008 9:48:41 AM)

Agreed. I'm a Christian musican, but never felt "called' to any sort of "ministry". I just write and sing songs that reflect my faith. You don't have to be called to do that anymore so than you are called to be a witness in the office or construction site where you work.

And I have yet to see a photo of Carrie that even approaches "immodest" territory. Maybe one of our more traditional brothers out there can point me to one.....




ladyinblack94 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/25/2008 11:59:00 PM)

That particular website bothers me because of the hate spewed forth. There is a clear cut difference between a difference of opinion and pure 'slamming' of artists or people because of a belief system. After the one time I read an article on that site, I promised myself not to return due to the negativity on there. It's sites such as this which give the true Christian a horrible name and cause a damage to our testimony. I love all types of music, and always will. I am interested to learn Nicko is a Christian, so thank you for the info!




ajlewis -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (3/29/2008 10:10:31 AM)

quote:

It's ridiculous for some in the church to believe that christian musicians have to use their music has a preaching tool. No where in the bible does it say that. They would only do that if God called them to the office of an evangelist, and many are not called to that in the music industry.
I couldn't agree more. A Christian artist is under no obligation to produce overtly "Christian art". My contention is that music, or any art for that matter is a reflection of the artist's heart and will eventually show it one way or the other. Whether or not Jesus is referred to means nothing.

This article is little more than a lot of rehashed evangelical blather which the author tries desparately to defend his goody-goody christian image rather than making any real point.




metallikitty -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (4/5/2008 5:24:07 AM)

That website and the others like it are all cut from the same, uber-legalistic, graceless, chest-pounding self-righteous mold. They all seem to say the same thing in different ways - draw the same conclusions - etc. Pretty much modern-day Pharisees of a sort.




Rufas2000 -> RE: "Jesus make me rich"- article on Carrie Underwood (4/5/2008 5:36:36 AM)

quote:

That website and the others like it are all cut from the same, uber-legalistic, graceless, chest-pounding self-righteous mold. They all seem to say the same thing in different ways - draw the same conclusions - etc. Pretty much modern-day Pharisees of a sort.


Maybe its a hive mind sort of deal. "All rock is bad", "King James Bible only true Bible ever written", "All brains must be eaten" (LOL) etc.




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