|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/20/2008 7:41:46 AM
|
|
|
Cephyr13
Posts: 267
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
|
These prophecies will show how America is in the Bible.
There are 13 numerical prophecies in the Bible, and three I'm going to show won't make as much sense without the others to back them up and show their legitimacy, but I'll still show them.
I'm going to show three prophecies that are "time, times and half a time prophecies." Two given to the Jews, and one to the Christians. We've been told that time, times and half a time means 3 1/2 years. That's incorrect. First, we must understand the Hebrew saying, so I'll show you another few instances where it's used:
Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man
perceiveth it not.
Job 40:5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea,
twice; but I will proceed no further.
Psa 62:11 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this;
that power belongeth unto God.
In these sayings, once, twice means: 1 + 1
Therefore, time, times and half a time means: 1 + 1 + 1/2 = 2 1/2
Now, the question is, what does "time" mean? Peter gives Christians that little bit of information.
2 Peter 3:8
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
I like how he says "don't be unaware of this." What's sad is that no one translates it correctly. "Day" in the Greek is "Hemera" in this verse. However, Hemera is not translated as "day" unless in reference to the last day, the Day of the Lord, usually. Otherwise, Hemera is translated as "time." KJV translates hemera to mean "time" 4 times. NASB translates it to me "time" 12 times. They missed this one, though, because it sounds funny. Here's how it's supposed to read:
2 Peter 3:8
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one time is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one time.
So, time = 1,000 years.
Time, times and half a time = 2,500 years
Now, let's check out the prophecies.
Daniel 7:25
25'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
I'm not going to get into the specifics, but this prophecy was given to a Jew, for the Jews, and is about the Jews. In Matthew, the Jews are called the Old Testament saints. Those are the saints being referred to here. We know this prophecy was given to Daniel in 552 BC, so let's add 2,500 years.
-552 BC + 2,500 = 1948 AD The year the Jews became a nation again without anyone else ruling over them
Daniel 12:7
7I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering (or scattering) the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.
This prophecy is about the end of all of Daniel's prophecies, which he says starts the time of the end. This prophecy was given in 533 BC according to historians.
-533 BC + 2,500 = 1967 AD (the year the Jews took back their temple mount)
So the "time of the Gentiles" meant the time that the Gentiles ruled the temple mount. And the time of the end starts at the end of the time of the Gentiles.
Now, for the prophecy given to Christians in Revelation 12.
Revelation 12:14
14But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
When Ephraim, also called Israel, which is the 10 northern tribes, split from Judah (the southern two tribes), Ephraim/Israel ended up getting taken captive by Assyria and dispersed into the world, never to be heard from again. Historians place this in 724 BC. Let's add 2,500 years to that.
-724 BC + 2,500 = 1776 AD (The year the United States became a nation)
We're told that Ephriam will tremble from the West, will be planted in a pleasant place, will be protected by waters, that her history is only half over, and that she will bring her children to the destroyer (abortion? or war?). Israel had 12 tribes that split into 13 tribes because the tribe of Jacob split into Ephraim and Menasseh. We had 12 colonies that split Carolina into North and South, making our original 13 colonies. 13 is oddly enough the number of the Trinity: 1 in 3 = 13. We have 13 stripes on our flag for our 13 colonies. The Levites had 48 cities given to them throughout Israel so they, the priests, could give sacrifices. We were given 48 contiguous states, and from 1917 to 1959, we displayed 48 stars on our flag due to this. The two things we had in common with old Israel we just happened to display on our flag. Interesting cooindicence.
One last thing. The two witnesses are identified in Revelation 11. It says they are the two lampstands and the two olive trees before the throne of God. So, when you look in Revelation 1:20, you see that lampstands are defined as churches. And in Romans we see that the wild olive tree is the Christian/Gentile church, and the original olive tree is the Jewish church, of which the Christian church is being grafted into. So, the two witnesses are the Christian and Jewish churches. That's why these two 2,500 year prophecies are about The Jews, the Christians, and the temple mount both of them used to use before 724 BC when both were still known as Israel.
Pretty weird, eh? There are 10 other numerical prophecies that all come out dead on accurate like they're supposed to. Many in Daniel and some in Revelation. Here's the book they're found in:
www.ellisskolfield.com (click on Books & Essays, then click on The False Prophet Chapters 1-9)
Great book. Irrefutable. He's dead on accurate and it kills everyone else's prophecy interpretations. It makes a TON of sense too when you see these prophetic fulfillments. Hope this helps.
_____________________________
- Brian
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/20/2008 9:40:34 AM
|
|
|
Cephyr13
Posts: 267
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
...So, the two witnesses are the Christian and Jewish churches...
There seems to be no end to really bad eschatology.
quote:
...it kills everyone else's prophecy interpretations...
Here's a Christianity 101 adage:
When someone shows up with radical theology not held in the Church for 1900-2000 years, you can take it to the bank that you have encountered a false teacher who will lead you by the hand into deep, deep error and away from the light.
I'll play nice and not call you a false prophet/teacher, and rather show you some proof and ask you some questions, because you did not provide me the courtesy of disproving me. You just made a statement as if your word is enough to destroy what I just wrote.
Answer some questions for me: Why does the Bible define the two witnesses as lampstands and olive trees, and then also define lampstands as churches and olive trees as Christians and Jews? Could you please explain what this REALLY means since you are confident that you have the correct interpretation? Or does your prophetic interpretation have no clue what it means?
Now, let me share a little story about where your futurist prophecy belief comes from.
Back in the 1500s, during the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther mad this statement:
“There are two great truths that stand out in the preaching that brought about the Protestant Reformation.... The just shall live by faith, not by the works of Romanism, and the Papacy is the Antichrist of Scripture.' It was a message for Christ and against Antichrist. The entire Reformation rests upon this twofold testimony.’”1 It has been said that the Reformation discovered Jesus Christ, and in His light it discovered Antichrist. This Spirit-filled movement shook the world!"
The Catholic church did not like this, because Luther was calling the Catholic church the whore of Revelation that rides on the beast and makes war with the saints. This was the Catholic response:
"At the Council of Trent, the Jesuits were commissioned by the Pope to develop a new interpretation of Scripture that would counteract the Protestant application of the Bible's antichrist prophecies to the Roman Catholic Church. Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, took on the challenge."
Ribera is the actual founder of the Futurist prophecy movement. It was developed ONLY to keep the Catholics from leaving the church, because thousands of Catholics were leaving because of the Luther's claims, and because the Catholic church fit the bill, and in Revelation, God says, "Come out of her my people so that you do not share in her punishment" (her being the whore). So, the Catholic church definitely when to war with the saints as prophesied. You can read about it here:
http://www.geocities.com/biblerevelations_org/rapture/jesuit_futurism.htm
Your futurist prophecy is less than 400 years old, and was simply a way to keep people in the oppressive Catholic church of those days. I don't believe the Catholic church is necessarily the spirit of antichrist as stated by Luther, but I do think they were the whore of Revelation at that time. The whore is adorned in red and purple and jewels. The Catholic church has red for cardinals and purple for bishops, and the Cathedrals are covered in gold and jewels which would better be used to feed the homeless and widows as the tithe did in the Old Testament. The Catholic church had the Spanish Inquisition where the blood of the saints was on their hands, as foretold of the whore, also called Mystery Babylon. She is said to be a city that sins on seven hills in Revelation as well. Rome, home of the Vatican, is known as the city on seven hills. Rome and the Vatican, at the time, were ruling as the Holy Roman Empire. Government and Religion, ruled the world for 1,000 years.
Eventually, in the 1700's, Darby got ahold of the Futurist prophecy here in America and made it his own and took credit as the father of modern futurism. He wasn't, though. It was Ribera.
Did you know that's where your futurist belief comes from?
One Jewish priest back in 688 AD said that the Dome of the Rock being built on the temple mount was the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel. Apparently, the Christians at that time knew this as well, because Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place (temple mount), flee Judea (Jerusalem). The Christians all left Jesursalem in 688 AD when they saw the Dome of the Rock being built. The Jews did not have this New Testament prophecy from Jesus, and they stayed. The Muslims slaughtered one millioin Jews, and then ran the rest out of Israel. That started the great tribulation which lasted for the next 1,260 years. Yes, the two witnesses were said to be prophesyinig for 1,260 days and this is right when the gentiles are mentioned to rule the temple mount for 42 months. Let's test out some prophecies.
Numbers 14:34 & Ezekiel 4:5,6 both say that a day equals a year in prophecies.
Daniel 12 says there will be 1,290 days between the abolition of daily sacrifices and the abomination of desolation being "set up." In Daniel's time, the daily sacrifices happened in 583 BC, according to Historians, when the Jews were lead away captive into Babylon away from the temple mount, meaning they were unable to give sacrifices. 1,290 Hebrew/Babylonian years must be converted to solar years, because history is recorded in 365.24 day solar years, not 360 Hebrew years.
360 divided by 365.24 = .9857 (conversion factor)
1,290 x .9857 = 1278.553 solar years
-583 BC + 1,278.553 years = 688.553 AD (the Dome of the Rock starts construction, and Jesus prediction comes truth about the great tribulation starting and the people needing to flee Jerusalem).
Now, let's take the 42 months we're told the Gentiles will "trodden down the outer court" of the temple mount (also called the Court of the Gentiles).
365.24 days in a year, divided by 12 months = 30.44 days in a month
42 months X 30.44 days = 1278.48 days (convert days to years now)
688.553 AD + 1278.48 years = 1967 AD (the year the Jews took Jerusalem and the temple mount back from the Muslims)
The Muslims built the Dome of the Rock on the outer court of the temple mount, by the way, exactly where they were prophesied to do so. But they never set foot on the area where the Dome of the Spirits is, which is where the Ark of the Covenant sat. There are four foundation holes drilled there which are only present where a building sat, which is why we know the original temple sat there and not where the Dome of the Rock sits today in the outer court.
Now, there was another prophecy given in Revelation 11 right after the 42 months prophecy. It said the two witnesses would prophesy for 1,260 days (years). Daniel was under a Hebrew calendar. John was under a 365.24 day solar calendar like we have today. No conversion needed for John's prophecies.
688 AD + 1,260 years = 1948 AD, the year the Jews became a nation again
So, let's see... the score is numerical prophecies 3, futurist prophecy 0.
And it looks like my version of prophecy has been around since the 600's, which would make yours the newer version.
So what proof do you offer to disprove me or to prove your futurism?
And don't forget to answer my first question about why the two witnesses are defined as lampstands and olive trees and then those are defined as churches and the Jews and Christians.
_____________________________
- Brian
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/20/2008 3:39:36 PM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 311
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
Hi Cephyr, Just a little more support for the belief that time, times and a half is two and a half times. The phrase "time, times, and an half" as used in Dan 12:7 is translated as "time of [two] times and a half" in some versions of the Tanach.
From the Tanach:
Dan12:7. "And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end."
Read the online version HERE
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/20/2008 3:45:45 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1420
Status: offline
|
"they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end." We notice that they are still going strong these days, and therefore, there will eventually be a physically instituted war on the saints of God Most High as it is written by the false worldly prophet leader who institutes the trial of the mark of the beast from the earth upon the world. As to the phrase 'time, times, and half a time' we see: Daniel 12:7. And: the word in Hebrew is "mow'ed".quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
Hi Cephyr, Just a little more support for the belief that time, times and a half is two and a half times. The phrase "time, times, and an half" as used in Dan 12:7 is translated as "time of [two] times and a half" in some versions of the Tanach.
From the Tanach:
Dan12:7. "And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end."
Read the online version HERE
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/20/2008 4:11:57 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/20/2008 10:36:37 PM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 311
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
Hi Cephyr, Just a little more support for the belief that time, times and a half is two and a half times. The phrase "time, times, and an half" as used in Dan 12:7 is translated as "time of [two] times and a half" in some versions of the Tanach.
From the Tanach:
Dan12:7. "And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end."
Read the online version HERE
"they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end." We notice that they are still going strong these days, and therefore, there will eventually be a physically instituted war on the saints of God Most High as it is written by the false worldly prophet leader who institutes the trial of the mark of the beast from the earth upon the world. As to the phrase 'time, times, and half a time' we see: Daniel 12:7. And: the word in Hebrew is "mow'ed".
Maybe you did not understand the OP no one said the word isn't time, the point of Cephyr's op was to determine if time times and a half is two and a half times or three and a half times. JMHO but I believe the Jews would be capable of recognizing a Jewish idiom, if you don't think the Jewish people are capable of translating the Scriptures they were given into English thats cool, your choice.
From the Tanach:
Dan12:7. "And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end."
Considering the subject of the original post is whether or not time times and a half is two and a half times or three and a half times, I will refrain from commenting on the rest of your post as that is a subject of its own and i don't think Cephyr would appreciate us sidetracking the thread he started.
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/20/2008 10:47:43 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1420
Status: offline
|
Greetings midwest! It is written regarding how some of the Jewish scholars handle Scripture: You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe [ Some manuscripts set up] your own traditions!
Please notice that America is in Prophecy in Daniel regarding the third animal that is a leopard that was to come, which has four heads that represent four major empires. The last empire could, in fact, be America. The next Empire, which we see that we are approaching is the worldwide Empire that devours the whole earth and has terrifying authority. As commerce moves to a global level, eventually 10 worldwide leaders will rule it and the false worldly prophet will subdue 3 of them, as is written, and institute the mark of the beast trial upon the world making war against the saints of God Most High and conquering some of them.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
Hi Cephyr, Just a little more support for the belief that time, times and a half is two and a half times. The phrase "time, times, and an half" as used in Dan 12:7 is translated as "time of [two] times and a half" in some versions of the Tanach.
From the Tanach:
Dan12:7. "And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end."
Read the online version HERE
"they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end." We notice that they are still going strong these days, and therefore, there will eventually be a physically instituted war on the saints of God Most High as it is written by the false worldly prophet leader who institutes the trial of the mark of the beast from the earth upon the world. As to the phrase 'time, times, and half a time' we see: Daniel 12:7. And: the word in Hebrew is "mow'ed".
Maybe you did not understand the OP no one said the word isn't time, the point of Cephyr's op was to determine if time times and a half is two and a half times or three and a half times. JMHO but I believe the Jews would be capable of recognizing a Jewish idiom, if you don't think the Jewish people are capable of translating the Scriptures they were given into English thats cool, your choice.
From the Tanach:
Dan12:7. "And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end."
Considering the subject of the original post is whether or not time times and a half is two and a half times or three and a half times, I will refrain from commenting on the rest of your post as that is a subject of its own and i don't think Cephyr would appreciate us sidetracking the thread he started.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/20/2008 11:07:01 PM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 311
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
Hi Cephyr, Just a little more support for the belief that time, times and a half is two and a half times. The phrase "time, times, and an half" as used in Dan 12:7 is translated as "time of [two] times and a half" in some versions of the Tanach.
From the Tanach:
Dan12:7. "And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end."
Read the online version HERE
"they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end." We notice that they are still going strong these days, and therefore, there will eventually be a physically instituted war on the saints of God Most High as it is written by the false worldly prophet leader who institutes the trial of the mark of the beast from the earth upon the world. As to the phrase 'time, times, and half a time' we see: Daniel 12:7. And: the word in Hebrew is "mow'ed".
Maybe you did not understand the OP no one said the word isn't time, the point of Cephyr's op was to determine if time times and a half is two and a half times or three and a half times. JMHO but I believe the Jews would be capable of recognizing a Jewish idiom, if you don't think the Jewish people are capable of translating the Scriptures they were given into English thats cool, your choice.
From the Tanach:
Dan12:7. "And I heard the man clad in linen, who was above the waters of the river, and he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens, and he swore by the Life of the world, that in the time of [two] times and a half, and when they have ended shattering the strength of the holy people, all these will end."
Considering the subject of the original post is whether or not time times and a half is two and a half times or three and a half times, I will refrain from commenting on the rest of your post as that is a subject of its own and i don't think Cephyr would appreciate us sidetracking the thread he started.
Greetings midwest! It is written regarding how some of the Jewish scholars handle Scripture: You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe [ Some manuscripts set up] your own traditions!
Please notice that America is in Prophecy in Daniel regarding the third animal that is a leopard that was to come, which has four heads that represent four major empires. The last empire could, in fact, be America. The next Empire, which we see that we are approaching is the worldwide Empire that devours the whole earth and has terrifying authority. As commerce moves to a global level, eventually 10 worldwide leaders will rule it and the false worldly prophet will subdue 3 of them, as is written, and institute the mark of the beast trial upon the world making war against the saints of God Most High and conquering some of them.
Irrelevent and off topic the subject of the thread is whether time times and a half is 2 and 1/2 or 3 and 1/2 Like I said I am not interested in hijacking this thread if you would like to discuss that subject then please start a thread for it. No sense hijacking someone elses thread.
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/20/2008 11:17:16 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 253
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
|
Shalom, again, Cephyr13!
Where do you come up with the legitimacy of a "conversion factor?" The "prophetic year" of 360 days is WRONG! Even if one were to use the Jewish year (which is on a lunar calendar) where each month is either 29 or 30 days, they have leap years, too! However, instead of just adding a day every four years (Feb. 29), they add another MONTH (Adar I and the regular Adar is called Adar II)! The Jewish calendar has done that this year, in fact, which is why this year is odd in that Passover (Pesach) is so far removed from Easter! Easter is calculated as "the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox." However, the Jewish calendar uses a slightly different calculation for Pesach. This year, the calculation for Easter is TOO CLOSE (spring equinox = Mar. 21, first full moon after the spring equinox = Mar. 22, and thus the first Sunday after that = Mar. 23!) Technically, one cannot even have a "third day" after Pesach! Pesach would have been too close to the spring equinox; therefore, a "second" Adar (Adar I) was added.
Retrobyter
_____________________________
God will never abolish His Torah; He merely sent His Son to COMPLETE it so we aren't FORCED to keep it! (It's still a good idea, however.)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/20/2008 11:48:37 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1420
Status: offline
|
Amen. Greetings and Shalom Retrobyter! Thank you for all of your effort and input into these things. I, too, would like to know why some think that the prophetic calendar given to Moses is not useful for interepreting the prophecy?! It seems to me, that the Scripture interprets itself through the usage of the prophetic festival celebrations and the calendar given to Moses by God Almighty.
Please tell me, how many years have 390 days in them on the calendar given to Moses in the leap year?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shalom, again, Cephyr13!
Where do you come up with the legitimacy of a "conversion factor?" The "prophetic year" of 360 days is WRONG! Even if one were to use the Jewish year (which is on a lunar calendar) where each month is either 29 or 30 days, they have leap years, too! However, instead of just adding a day every four years (Feb. 29), they add another MONTH (Adar I and the regular Adar is called Adar II)! The Jewish calendar has done that this year, in fact, which is why this year is odd in that Passover (Pesach) is so far removed from Easter! Easter is calculated as "the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox." However, the Jewish calendar uses a slightly different calculation for Pesach. This year, the calculation for Easter is TOO CLOSE (spring equinox = Mar. 21, first full moon after the spring equinox = Mar. 22, and thus the first Sunday after that = Mar. 23!) Technically, one cannot even have a "third day" after Pesach! Pesach would have been too close to the spring equinox; therefore, a "second" Adar (Adar I) was added.
Retrobyter
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/20/2008 11:54:42 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/21/2008 11:30:08 AM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 311
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shalom, again, Cephyr13!
Where do you come up with the legitimacy of a "conversion factor?" The "prophetic year" of 360 days is WRONG! Even if one were to use the Jewish year (which is on a lunar calendar) where each month is either 29 or 30 days, they have leap years, too! However, instead of just adding a day every four years (Feb. 29), they add another MONTH (Adar I and the regular Adar is called Adar II)! The Jewish calendar has done that this year, in fact, which is why this year is odd in that Passover (Pesach) is so far removed from Easter! Easter is calculated as "the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox." However, the Jewish calendar uses a slightly different calculation for Pesach. This year, the calculation for Easter is TOO CLOSE (spring equinox = Mar. 21, first full moon after the spring equinox = Mar. 22, and thus the first Sunday after that = Mar. 23!) Technically, one cannot even have a "third day" after Pesach! Pesach would have been too close to the spring equinox; therefore, a "second" Adar (Adar I) was added.
Retrobyter
I can' speak for cephyr13 but I can share the information I do know about the subject.
If memeory serves me correctly there were at least 4 different calenders used during the time period the Old Testament Scriptures were written. A common belief (held by many not all) is that concerning the prophetic verses of the Old Testament we are to use a 360 day year in order to eliminate the confusion of which calender applies to which prophecy. From I Maccabees and the Book of the Jubilees it appears that Jews of intertestimental times generally considered a month to be 30 days, and a year to be 360 days. Consequently, this was probably the calendar with which Daniel was familiar so it is the one we use to interpret O.T. prophetic years. We should also consider that in Gen7:11, 7:24, 8:4 we see 150 days equals five months, for months of 30 days each which leads to a 360 day year. In order to make these 360 day years fit the calender history was written in we must multiply the 360 day years by .9857 in order to see how much time they equal in the 365.24 day years that our calender is written in.
Solar Year = 365.24 days: ONLY for interpreting New Testament prophecy. John was under Roman rule and used the solar calendar, no confusion about which calender applies when he wrote something.
In the interest of simplicity, the zero year or lack thereof is ignored. Computations fall within the one to three year ambiguity most historians allow when dealing in dates prior to the 1st Century. including the date of the birth of Jesus. An example; There is solid archeological evidence demonstrating that Herod the great died on or before September of 4BC so Jesus must have been born before that date.
I would be very interested to see how you make the calender you have described fit what Scripture and history tell us about the 69 weeks. Cephyr13 has demonstrated where history fits the Scripture can you demonstrate the same using the calender you described? If so I would be interested in seeing it.
< Message edited by Midwest -- 3/21/2008 12:04:03 PM >
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/21/2008 12:02:40 PM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 311
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
...So, the two witnesses are the Christian and Jewish churches...
There seems to be no end to really bad eschatology.
quote:
...it kills everyone else's prophecy interpretations...
Here's a Christianity 101 adage:
When someone shows up with radical theology not held in the Church for 1900-2000 years, you can take it to the bank that you have encountered a false teacher who will lead you by the hand into deep, deep error and away from the light.
I'll play nice and not call you a false prophet/teacher, and rather show you some proof and ask you some questions, because you did not provide me the courtesy of disproving me. You just made a statement as if your word is enough to destroy what I just wrote.
Call me whatever makes your day and your self image better. I stand by the Christianity 101 adage above.
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Do you believe the time of the end began 1900 -2000 years ago? If not then when do you believe it began?
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/21/2008 2:01:51 PM
|
|
|
cow451
Posts: 3711
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
These prophecies will show how America is in the Bible.
There are 13 numerical prophecies in the Bible, and three I'm going to show won't make as much sense without the others to back them up and show their legitimacy, but I'll still show them.
Only problem is that it's pretty useless in looking forward. Read the last paragraph of Scofields book. It says nothing new.
_____________________________
Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/21/2008 2:40:50 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1420
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
I'll play nice and not call you a false prophet/teacher, and rather show you some proof and ask you some questions, because you did not provide me the courtesy of disproving me. You just made a statement as if your word is enough to destroy what I just wrote.
LOL!!!
quote:
Numbers 14:34 & Ezekiel 4:5,6 both say that a day equals a year in prophecies.
Daniel 12 says there will be 1,290 days between the abolition of daily sacrifices and the abomination of desolation being "set up." In Daniel's time, the daily sacrifices happened in 583 BC, according to Historians, when the Jews were lead away captive into Babylon away from the temple mount, meaning they were unable to give sacrifices. 1,290 Hebrew/Babylonian years must be converted to solar years, because history is recorded in 365.24 day solar years, not 360 Hebrew years.
360 divided by 365.24 = .9857 (conversion factor)
1,290 x .9857 = 1278.553 solar years
-583 BC + 1,278.553 years = 688.553 AD (the Dome of the Rock starts construction, and Jesus prediction comes truth about the great tribulation starting and the people needing to flee Jerusalem).
Now, let's take the 42 months we're told the Gentiles will "trodden down the outer court" of the temple mount (also called the Court of the Gentiles).
365.24 days in a year, divided by 12 months = 30.44 days in a month
42 months X 30.44 days = 1278.48 days (convert days to years now)
688.553 AD + 1278.48 years = 1967 AD (the year the Jews took Jerusalem and the temple mount back from the Muslims)
The Muslims built the Dome of the Rock on the outer court of the temple mount, by the way, exactly where they were prophesied to do so. But they never set foot on the area where the Dome of the Spirits is, which is where the Ark of the Covenant sat. There are four foundation holes drilled there which are only present where a building sat, which is why we know the original temple sat there and not where the Dome of the Rock sits today in the outer court.
Now, there was another prophecy given in Revelation 11 right after the 42 months prophecy. It said the two witnesses would prophesy for 1,260 days (years). Daniel was under a Hebrew calendar. John was under a 365.24 day solar calendar like we have today. No conversion needed for John's prophecies.
688 AD + 1,260 years = 1948 AD, the year the Jews became a nation again
So, let's see... the score is numerical prophecies 3, futurist prophecy 0.
And it looks like my version of prophecy has been around since the 600's, which would make yours the newer version.
So what proof do you offer to disprove me or to prove your futurism?
And don't forget to answer my first question about why the two witnesses are defined as lampstands and olive trees and then those are defined as churches and the Jews and Christians.
Please notice The Lord's admonishment regarding dates and times in the Apostle's Testimony: It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
In your, so called, theory in order to keep the prophecy in Daniel as it is written: Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. You have foretold the future date, without knowing it. For the date that you have pre-supposed for the coming of the Lord Jesus in The Millennium is, by your own calculations: 1290 + 1260 = 2550 years. And, (1335 - 1290) 75 + 1290 + 1260 = 2595 years. Or, 1335 +1290 +1260 = 3885 years. Either way. the date that you have assumed to be the coming of The Lord Jesus in The Millennium is: the year 2023 or the year 3302! I do not see any proof that this date is Scriptural to calculate at all. It is a discipline of a false teacher to presume that they know the date.
As to the two Witnesses, it is written: "And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." I do not notice any two witnesses that have stood in Jerusalem prophesying over the nations for 1260 years! Also, it is written: If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
Also, the times of the gentile nations are not completed, yet; for we see that the United States has Her place among the Nations of the world as a powerful Empire and not Jerusalem.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/21/2008 3:19:23 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/21/2008 3:13:06 PM
|
|
|
AllForIsrael
Posts: 155
Joined: 3/1/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Also, the times of the gentile nations are not completed, yet; for we see that the United States has Her place among the Nations of the world as a powerful Empire and not Jerusalem.
Boy do you have a misconception. And just what role will the US play in all this?
quote:
In your, so called, theory in order to keep the prophecy in Daniel as it is written: Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. You have foretold the future date, without knowing it. For the date that you have pre-supposed for the coming of the Lord Jesus in The Millennium is, by your own calculations: 1290 + 1260 = 2550 years. And, 1335 + 1260 = 2595 years. So the date that you have assumed to be the coming of The Lord Jesus in The Millennium is: the year 2023! I do not see any proof that this date is Scriptural to calculate at all.
This is junk for no man knows the time or day all the calculations in the world are not going to help with that. After all the end as been coming for 2000 years and it ain't happened yet. Someone explain that theory? Some one tell the Messiah hes late........
_____________________________
http://forensictheology.smfnew.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/21/2008 3:14:26 PM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 311
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
So the date that you have assumed to be the coming of The Lord Jesus in The Millennium is: the year 2023! I do not see any proof that this date is Scriptural to calculate at all.
Prophetica maybe you should take the time to read and understand a post before commenting. I don't see where Chephyr13 said the second coming would occur in 2023.
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/21/2008 3:18:37 PM
|
|
|
AllForIsrael
Posts: 155
Joined: 3/1/2008
Status: offline
|
Date setting a little dangerous don't you think?
_____________________________
http://forensictheology.smfnew.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 3/21/2008 3:18:50 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1420
Status: offline
|
Greetings! Cephyr13 has assumed this. For in order to keep the fuller counsel of Scripture regarding Daniel 12:12, Cephyr13 is extrapolating into what even Newton warned people not to do.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
So the date that you have assumed to be the coming of The Lord Jesus in The Millennium is: the year 2023! I do not see any proof that this date is Scriptural to calculate at all.
Prophetica maybe you should take the time to read and understand a post before commenting. I don't see where Chephyr13 said the second coming would occur in 2023.
|
|
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
RE: Finding America in Bible Prophecy - 
