Clinton, McCain or Obama (Full Version)

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TomTurn -> Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 7:50:50 AM)

Clinton, McCain or Obama. For better or worse one of them will be President. If you desire to, post your reasons why or why not each one should be and maybe who you would vote for if you want. And if we can, just keep it to posting your opinion and moving on. No argument among each other.



saved9201 -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 8:54:22 AM)

OBAMA!!



Starbucks880 -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 9:03:27 AM)

I'm leaning toward Obama, but I am not saying that my vote is locked in for November, but right now Obama.



TomTurn -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 9:06:54 AM)

Thanks but also looking for reasons on all



TomTurn -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 9:18:38 AM)

Just quickly for me

Clinton, reasons not to - Only there becasue her husband cheated on her and is looking for payback that she thinks is owed to her. Do not think we should be giving out the Preidential office for that reason. Left socialism a long time ago and now closer to being a marxist. Is a poverty pimp, race hustler who would gladly wipe a part of her body with the Constitution to move ahead with her progressive ideals.

Obama, reasons not to - Race hustler, poverty pimp who puts his race ahead of beng an American. Extreme socialist who votes more liberal than the socialist senator we have.

McCain, reasons not to - Always reaching across to the "left" but the "right" always takes it in the shorts on every deal. Is open borders and I question his belief in the soverignty of the U.S . Mexico and other nations always win out over the U.S. in border issues and I want someone who stands for the U.S. and its laws. Is not "conservative" in any way.



stamper_ben -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 10:15:05 AM)

Juan McCain only because there will be Supreme Court Justices to replace in the next four years and I have to trust that he'll make better choices than either of them on the socialist democrat side.

If it wasn't for that one reason that will effect several generations to come I'd go independent somewhere.



ken1906_4 -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 10:19:57 AM)

I'm an Independent so I have no allegiance to any of these political party's because both of them are severely flawed.

Before the candidates started dropping like flies my original group of choices was (no particular order):
Dennis Kucinich
Ron Paul
Barack Obama
John Edwards
Mike Huckabee

Now that the only person left is Obama I’m leaning toward him, but I’m still on the fence. The only policy I disagree with him on is of course abortion.

I like him because 1, he’s not part of the system that has been running this country and 2, people can say what they want about the whole race issue, but he may be just the person to start a dialogue and come up with some solutions to bring the races in this country together. It’s apparent that the current and past policies have failed, so why not accept something new. Here in America, its freedom, justice and equality for all and honestly we may have freedom, but justice and equality still need some catching up to do. Unfortunately for Obama, he may be allowed to bring about that change because the powers that be don’t desire change. In fact they are absolutely terrified of it. Ron Paul wanted change and so did Dennis Kucinich and they were ignored, so Obama is the last 1 in the bunch who could probably bring this about.

Another more personal reason why I like him….well……let me put it like this. Though I disagree with their politics I think young African Americans should be somewhat proud of Dr. Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell (one of my heroes). It gives them an example of despite ridiculous odds we can achieve much if given a chance. My hope is that if Obama is elected it would stimulate young African Americans with a sense that if he can becomes P.O.T.U.S. then I can do anything I set my mind to by working hard. This is what missing in my community. Some of us have that pride, but many of us don’t. If this happens on a country wide scale, then I see the black community and any minority group here in America turning the corner. I hope for the day that there is a true sharing of Power, Resources and Responsibility among all of us.



relady -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 10:20:16 AM)

Clinton or Obama - Can vote for either one mainly because both are concerned with setting some timetables for Iraq and both are concerned about the state of our economy. I believe either one will spend quite a bit of time undoing some of the damage done by this administration on so many levels.

McCain - Believe he is an honorable man, but cannot vote for him because he has publicly stated that he doesn't care if we are in Iraq for another 60-100 years and that the economy is not one of his "strong points." Those are my core issues this year and he is 0 for 2.



wing2000 -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 10:43:33 AM)

quote:

Clinton, McCain or Obama. For better or worse one of them will be President. If you desire to, post your reasons why or why not each one should be and maybe who you would vote for if you want. And if we can, just keep it to posting your opinion and moving on. No argument among each other.


I noticed you are passing on all three....("reasons not to")



P31W -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 10:45:08 AM)

quote:

Another more personal reason why I like him….well……let me put it like this. Though I disagree with their politics I think young African Americans should be somewhat proud of Dr. Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell (one of my heroes).


The church Obama attends calls both of these people "Uncle Toms' from the pulpit. If you don't understand what they term means "for them" (Obama and the rest of the congregation) you may want to study up on their theology. Black Liberation Theology - read stuff by James Cones who their pastor admires. Because you admire them they consider you an uncle Tom as well if you are black.

They are considered "sell outs" to their race. Not people that Obama and his congregation are "proud of".



wing2000 -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 10:55:32 AM)

quote:

The church Obama attends calls both of these people "Uncle Toms' from the pulpit. If you don't understand what they term means "for them" (Obama and the rest of the congregation) you may want to study up on their theology. Black Liberation Theology - read stuff by James Cones who their pastor admires.

They are considered "sell outs" to their race. Not people that Obama and his congregation are "proud of".


P31W,

So Obama is not proud of Rice or Powell?

Or is this just more groundless conjecture....



P31W -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 11:00:14 AM)

He belongs to a Chruch were people "cheer" the pastor calling Condoleezza Rice “Condamnesia” and Justice Clarence Thomas “Clarence Colon”.

If you join a congregation based on what they teach then I would have to say that "no" he is not proud of them rather is like the "rest" of the congregation he has chosen for 20 years to align himself with as his spiritural brothes and sisters.

It's not something that is not public knowledge. Trinity is a black liberation chruch. If you know the theology then the remarks made from the pulpit concerning certian people and races will not suprise you. Rather it "is" what they believe and teach as truth.

Here are some of the "terms" often used in the Black Liberation Theology chruches to describe people like Rice and Powell.

“Uncle Toms,” “house ni***rs,” “sellouts,” and “traitors to their race.”

(I can't spell out the term after "house" because it's considered on this christian forum to be offensive.)



wing2000 -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 11:07:29 AM)

quote:


If you join a congregation based on what they teach then I would have to say that "no" he is not proud of them rather is like the "rest" of the congregation he has chosen for 20 years to align himself with as his spiritural brothes and sisters.


....that's what I thought. By this line of reasoning, Obama can be assumed to be in agreement with every word ever uttered by his pastor or fellow church members.



P31W -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 11:09:05 AM)

So I can join KKK congregation for 20 years and pretend I don't know what they teach.

If someone is joined to a chruch for 20 years and does not know the basic theology that person is either a fool or a liar.

Better yet. Let me tell you all that the KKK preacher is my spiritural mentor - like a family member to me and then claim I didn't know he IS a racist teaching racist ideas from the pulpit.

One "joins" a Chruch because you believe their doctrine is true. You don't join one and raise your children in it when you disagree with their CORE doctrine.

That is what this is about for me. Obama chose to join a church because he agrees with the Chruches Core Doctrine - Black Liberation Theology that my dear goes to the "root" of the matter. Not what "one pastor" may have said once or twice. Rather it's the foundation of their ENTIRE belief system.



TomTurn -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 11:27:44 AM)

Please, no argument. Look to first post. Thanks



EStan -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 11:47:54 AM)

I will be holding my nose and voting for McCain, for some of the same reason Ben mentioned.

I cannot in good conscience vote for Clinton or Obama, because they each
support abortion
support socialized medicine
support gun control
Oppose winning the war in Iraq

And I believe they both plan to raise taxes.



saved9201 -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 12:28:08 PM)

Not trying to hijack this thread (I'll start another if necessary - we must be close to a record by now), but I'd be curious to know how many former Obama supporters now support someone else because of the Jeremiah Wright thing? And, conversely, how many who didn't support him before, now support him based on how he's handled adversity. BTW, I'm in the last group?

-Julius
"hook'em horns, go Texas"



ken1906_4 -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/20/2008 12:42:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W

quote:

Another more personal reason why I like him….well……let me put it like this. Though I disagree with their politics I think young African Americans should be somewhat proud of Dr. Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell (one of my heroes).


The church Obama attends calls both of these people "Uncle Toms' from the pulpit. If you don't understand what they term means "for them" (Obama and the rest of the congregation) you may want to study up on their theology. Black Liberation Theology - read stuff by James Cones who their pastor admires. Because you admire them they consider you an uncle Tom as well if you are black.

They are considered "sell outs" to their race. Not people that Obama and his congregation are "proud of".


LOL!
How are you going say if I don't understand that term? That amuses me. BTW, the correct term is Sambo. Uncle Tom was actually a hero, but some of us misuse it(read the book). They say those things about them because of their politics and their close assoication with administrations who have questionable behavior toward people of color.

Anyway, a little history about myself I know quite a bit of the liberation theology, I grew up in a church that taught it. The attempt was to save souls, sharing the gospel and of course uplifting the black community. It was about empowerment and helping each other. Not once did my mom's former pastor say hate white people, but there were some principals taught on how to deal with those who discrimnate against you, but it needs to be done in a Godly manner.
You want to know something funny, back in 1990 a particular president of the United States visited and spoke out of the pulpit as this very church. I should know I was sitting about 10 feet away from him. George H.W. Bush had to know what type of church it was, but he was there anyway because of the type of positive impact the church was making within the surrounding black community. This congregation is doing the same thing. Not only does Obama church have white members, but they are also apart of a majority white denomination.

Now let's get back on topic.



P31W -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/21/2008 8:48:59 AM)

quote:

Anyway, a little history about myself I know quite a bit of the liberation theology, I grew up in a church that taught it. The attempt was to save souls, sharing the gospel and of course uplifting the black community. It was about empowerment and helping each other. Not once did my mom's former pastor say hate white people, but there were some principals taught on how to deal with those who discrimnate against you, but it needs to be done in a Godly manner.


Inorder to not Hijack this thread. Please join me and some others in the Theology section of the forum - Christian Doctrine folder. I started a thread on "Black Liberation Theology" as taught by James Cone the man Wright follows. There are many "forms" of BLT

Not back to the topi.



WesP -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/21/2008 3:19:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EStan

I will be holding my nose and voting for McCain, for some of the same reason Ben mentioned.

I cannot in good conscience vote for Clinton or Obama, because they each
support abortion
support socialized medicine
support gun control
Oppose winning the war in Iraq

And I believe they both plan to raise taxes.


Yep. This is about it. The only other concern I have is the hatred spewed by associates of Oncrack Obama. He never disagreed with it until the media began reporting on it.



Dragonnie -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/21/2008 5:17:08 PM)

Killary, McPain, or Obamanation?

Junk, gunk, or funk?



lightshineon -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/21/2008 5:49:50 PM)

None for me, who is the lesser of the three evils? HUMMMMMMMMMMM, don't know.



TomTurn -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/21/2008 7:26:35 PM)

Just a reminder to keep in mind this is not an argumnet area. This is an area for people to freely post why and why not on a candidate and for us to just read the posts

Quick reasons to vote for (already posted a quick not to)

Clinton - No reason to vote for

Obama - No reason to vote for

McCain - No reason to vote for

As I posted in another thread. This may be the first Presidential election since 1976 that I do not vote in.



jimbob1 -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/21/2008 11:37:32 PM)

McCain a strong leader in a dangerous time; the only 1 that could take that 3 am call.



Matt Smith -> RE: Clinton, McCain or Obama (3/22/2008 1:02:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TomTurn

Obama, reasons not to - Race hustler, poverty pimp who puts his race ahead of beng an American.


I'm sorry - don't you mean his races? Plural? He's biracial. As he's said, he's got lots of different pieces of America in him.

It sounds petty and low-class every time you call him names. IMHO it detracts from your credibility and the points you're trying to make.

Matt



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