RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (Full Version)

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PeterD -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (3/30/2008 11:00:43 PM)

Hello Ezra,

Matthew 9:35-38

The Harvest Is Plentiful, the Laborers Few
35 And Jesus went throughout all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction. 36 When he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37 Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; 38therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest."

Ezra are you one of these laborer's that our Lord Jesus spoke of which the disciples prayed earnestly to the Lord of the harvest for?

Peter



Ezra -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (3/30/2008 11:51:55 PM)

CherishedbGod:

It's good to see that these Scriptures are causing you to dig deeper.

quote:

Now, when you say His precious blood is continuously applied to our souls - to keep them perfect? Just our souls? What about our spirits and our bodies?Sorry to sound so "duh" Right now as I am posting this the Lord brings to my mind the verse where Paul says that in him, in his flesh dwelleth no good thing.


The "flesh" is our old sinful nature which is within our souls, and all sin comes from "the heart of man", heart being equivalent to soul (Mk. 7:20-23). Therefore, there is "no good thing" in the flesh, and whatever good thing is in us is because of the spirit and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The spirit is deep within the soul and is quickened or made alive by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit could not be given to us as a gift until Christ was resurrected, glorified, exalted, and enthroned. This again points to the importance of Christ's resurrection.

Our spirits commune with God through the Holy Spirit after we are born again, but before that they were simply "dead". Yet Paul also speaks of "the sins of the spirit", therefore Christ's blood is applied both to the sins of "the flesh" and of the spirit.

As to how God applies the blood of Christ to us, that is something that He has not revealed. What we do know without the shadow of a doubt is that "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 Jn. 1:7) and that verb is in the continuous tense. We also know that Christ "loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Rev. 1:5). Praise God for that!

As to our bodies, they are subject to death and decay, and will remain in the grave(unless we are present at the Rapture) until they are resurrected, perfected and glorified, when Christ comes for His saints.

Once again, we see that unless Christ had been raised from the dead, we would neither have been quickened in our spirits, nor could we hope to be resurrected in our bodies. Therefore there can be no Christians without the resurrection of Christ.



Ezra -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (3/30/2008 11:55:54 PM)

quote:

Ezra are you one of these laborer's that our Lord Jesus spoke of which the disciples prayed earnestly to the Lord of the harvest for?


Peter, I have tried to be a laborer in the harvest field ever since I was saved. I know I could, and should, be laboring a lot more. I trust that by God's grace I will do so.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (3/31/2008 8:51:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra

The "flesh" is our old sinful nature which is within our souls, and all sin comes from "the heart of man", heart being equivalent to soul (Mk. 7:20-23). Therefore, there is "no good thing" in the flesh, and whatever good thing is in us is because of the spirit and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Our spirits commune with God through the Holy Spirit after we are born again, but before that they were simply "dead". Yet Paul also speaks of "the sins of the spirit", therefore Christ's blood is applied both to the sins of "the flesh" and of the spirit.

As to how God applies the blood of Christ to us, that is something that He has not revealed. What we do know without the shadow of a doubt is that "the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 Jn. 1:7) and that verb is in the continuous tense. We also know that Christ "loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Rev. 1:5). Praise God for that!

As to our bodies, they are subject to death and decay, and will remain in the grave(unless we are present at the Rapture) until they are resurrected, perfected and glorified, when Christ comes for His saints.

Once again, we see that unless Christ had been raised from the dead, we would neither have been quickened in our spirits, nor could we hope to be resurrected in our bodies. Therefore there can be no Christians without the resurrection of Christ.


Ezra,

Are you saying that our flesh is the same as our "old man"? If it is true, how in the world could I have missed that for my 30 year long Christian journey???

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


Romans 7: 14-18


I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20


I guess what I am trying to say is I have always thought that our "old man", was one thing but then our "flesh" represented, well, sinful things we do, not our very sinful nature we are born into this world with?

I, also wonder what are the sins of the spirit? Maybe that is a topic for a different thread, I don't know. I know next to nothing about our spirit - only that they were dead but are now alive after we get saved and that, as you say, it is our spirits that commune with God after we become born-again. I wonder, could an example be:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Ephesians 4: 30-31


Since the above are things that grieve the Holy Spirit, perhaps these would be sins of the spirit? Just pondering....

Amen! No Christians without the resurrection! No hope without the resurrection!



Ezra -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/1/2008 1:32:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Ezra,

Are you saying that our flesh is the same as our "old man"? If it is true, how in the world could I have missed that for my 30 year long Christian journey???


It's hard to believe that you have never been shown this from Scripture.
In the NT the word "flesh" is used in two ways, and the context determines the meaning: (a) the human body of flesh and blood and (2) the old sinful nature, also called the "old man", or "the carnal mind". This is brought out clearly in Rom. 8:5-8, where "the flesh" and "the carnal mind" are used interchangeably. Obviously the mind is not flesh and blood, therefore it refers to the soul (or the innermost being).

In 1 Cor. 2:14 Paul speaks of the "natural man" who is unregenerated. Such men are controlled by the "carnal mind" or what Christ called "the heart of man".

quote:

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


Now notice how Paul says "in me" twice and then "in my flesh". If he was speaking of his body, he would not be saying "in me", but since he is referring to his soul, he says "in me" and "in my flesh", where the will is. This is therefore the soul. The flesh is powerless to be holy.

quote:

Romans 7: 14-18


I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20


Now here the context makes it clear that Paul is speaking of his body as "the flesh" since he is also saying that that life which he now lives is lived by faith. To live by faith is to walk in the Spirit, therefore he cannot be referring to his "carnal mind", which is at enmity with the Spirit.

quote:

I guess what I am trying to say is I have always thought that our "old man", was one thing but then our "flesh" represented, well, sinful things we do, not our very sinful nature we are born into this world with?


The body is controlled by the mind, and the mind is within the soul. Therefore whatever sins are committed by the body come from the soul or "the flesh" or the old sinful nature. The body simply does what the mind tells it to do.

quote:

I, also wonder what are the sins of the spirit?...
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Ephesians 4: 30-31


Since the above are things that grieve the Holy Spirit, perhaps these would be sins of the spirit? Just pondering....


You've hit the nail on the head. In 2 Cor. 7:1 Paul speaks of the filthiness of the flesh and spirit, and if we look at Eph. 4:31, then bitterness, wrath, anger, clamour, and evil speaking would certainly be sins of the spirit, whereas the sins mentioned in Eph. 5:3-5 would be considered sins of the flesh.

While all this may appear to be off topic, one should understand that "Know thy enemy" is essential for victory. The flesh is the enemy of the Christian, whereas the spirit is joined to God. The resurrection power of Christ resides in the spirit, with the Holy Spirit. Therefore we can do "all things" through Christ who strengthens us.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/1/2008 4:35:47 PM)

How in the world could I have not known all of this for so long? I've known some of it but not alot of what you share!

I mean, I dearly love the Lord, spend time with Him almost every day, have been fruitful and very blessed in ministry, however, I have been a defeated, mentally tormented woman for much of my life - walking in fear, woundedness and on and on. I should not even be alive.

My particular ministry is one that is especially hated by the enemy, I have "fainted" over and over again. I have searched and searched for answers...

No wonder they say the mind is what the enemy targets. No wonder the enemy uses fear so much.

No wonder the enemy wants to get our focus off the cross, the precious blood of the Lamb, the resurrection, the victory we have, Ephesians 1-3, and all that is ours because of the death burial and resurrection, ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ Who is now enthroned, and Who every knee will bow to and every tongue will confess that He is Lord.

I wanted to print all your answers off so I could sit in my Bible Study corner with my Bible and go over all the verses and things you have posted and the enemy complete jammed up my printer[:@]

God is soooo faithful! He never, never lets me give up! He kept wooing me and wooing me to keep seeking Him and His ways, His love, His answers in His Word. His hand has held me, He has carried me through such deep waters so many times and He keeps me seeking Him and He is so good even when I have wanted to turn my back on Him so many times. I just wanted to add that. Faithful, faithful, faithful He is[:)]
Thank you, God! Thank you, His servant Ezra!

BTW - If it is not too personal, how long have you been walking/living in the power of the resurrection?



mariadreamer -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/3/2008 2:38:14 PM)

Ezra,
you and I usually disagree [;)], but this is a good topic. The resurrection is central to our faith too. Christ entered death and destroyed it for our sake.



Ezra -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/4/2008 9:20:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mariadreamer

Ezra,
you and I usually disagree [;)], but this is a good topic. The resurrection is central to our faith too. Christ entered death and destroyed it for our sake.


maria:

It is truly an amazing and awesome thought. That death -- the ultimate enemy of mankind -- has absolutely no terror and no power over the one who is united to Christ.

We may die, but we shall live again. And not only shall we live, but we shall be perfect, glorious, and eternally in the presence of God and of the Lamb.

That is an awesome and powerful truth, which should set every believer free from the fear of death or Hell.

Therefore Paul declares: "Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting, O grave, where is thy victory?... But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 15:54-57).



Ezra -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/4/2008 9:24:55 PM)

quote:

BTW - If it is not too personal, how long have you been walking/living in the power of the resurrection?


Such matters are best left out of the public domain.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/5/2008 3:45:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra

quote:

BTW - If it is not too personal, how long have you been walking/living in the power of the resurrection?


Such matters are best left out of the public domain.



Sorry, not meant to make you uncomfortable[8|]

Some people like to share. And it helps me to "hear" how others "got the victory" God uses other's testimonies to help give me hope.

However, I respect your opinion...



hymnHIM -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/6/2008 11:02:01 AM)

Ezra,
What a beautiful thread. Thank you, Lord Jesus, for using us to help edify each other in you word. It is always good to get back to basics, because , in truth, they really are not basic at all, but filled with such deep profound truth. God bless you all,
Dan



Sabellius -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/7/2008 7:25:59 PM)

Someone once said, "The arch of the gospel rests upon two great pillars: the death of Christ and the Resurrection of Christ." In fact, without the latter there can be no Christian faith. Without the Resurrection Christianity is in vain. Paul declares, "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:14 KJV) He went on to say, “…we have testified of God that he raised up Christ…” In addition, Luke records, in Acts 1:3, that by MANY INFALLIBE PROOFS did Jesus show himself and declare that He; God manifest in the flesh, had risen and He is alive! The Resurrection of Christ is also the precursor for the resurrection of all believers when we are "caught up" with the Lord in the air. Read these words of the Apostle Paul:

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. (51) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- (52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory. (55) O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory? (56) The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. (57) But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:50-57 NKJV)



CherishedbyGod -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/9/2008 8:16:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabellius

Someone once said, "The arch of the gospel rests upon two great pillars: the death of Christ and the Resurrection of Christ." In fact, without the latter there can be no Christian faith. Without the Resurrection Christianity is in vain. Paul declares, "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:14 KJV) He went on to say, “…we have testified of God that he raised up Christ…” In addition, Luke records, in Acts 1:3, that by MANY INFALLIBE PROOFS did Jesus show himself and declare that He; God manifest in the flesh, had risen and He is alive! The Resurrection of Christ is also the precursor for the resurrection of all believers when we are "caught up" with the Lord in the air. Read these words of the Apostle Paul:

"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. (51) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- (52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory. (55) O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory? (56) The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. (57) But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:50-57 NKJV)


A precious post...thank you...



PeterD -> RE: No Christians nor Christianity without the Resurrection (4/17/2008 10:10:28 PM)

Hello Ezra,

I'm sorry for being so wordy lately even confusing at times, (forum topic's)

Today at work while I was working I was remembering some of Jesus word's which then reminded me of His Power through the Holy Spirit. Personally, I haven't been working my faith in Christ as much as I should be lately so I found my self re-examining where I am in my daily tasks.

These are some of the Bible passages that came to mind and lifted my spirit up in Jesus name. Jesus gave me strenght to keep the faith from wandering off the path. Thank You Father God in Jesus Name.


Psalm 23
The LORD Is My Shepherd
A Psalm of David.
1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
3He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for his name’s sake.
4Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

5You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.


Acts 4:33
33And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all.

1 Corinthians 4
The Ministry of Apostles
19But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power. 20For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. 21What do you wish? Shall I come to you with a rod, or with love in a spirit of gentleness?

PeterD



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