RE: Is church too feminine?

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FolkSingerBlues -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/5/2008 3:29:55 PM)
There is no way to approach this subject without recognizing that men are taught to be "nice" rather than "good". There is a huge difference. I have been involved with a "movement" called Godmen for over a year now that encourages men to bring their "stuff" and talk about it. I would encourage you guys to check into it...oh yeah, no women aloud. godmen.org

zamdad -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/5/2008 11:14:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues There is no way to approach this subject without recognizing that men are taught to be "nice" rather than "good". There is a huge difference. I have been involved with a "movement" called Godmen for over a year now that encourages men to bring their "stuff" and talk about it. I would encourage you guys to check into it...oh yeah, no women aloud. godmen.org I agree with this. There are many "nice" guys who are not "good" at all. They know how to manipulate, connive, and cajole better than most women to serve their own desires. But, our culture accepts nice. Nice keeps the peace. Nice keeps things at a surface level where no one has to become uncomfortable. Being good can cause some temporary discomfort, but other soon see that the good guy has their interests/desires in mind instead of self. Perhaps if more of us would get the courage to be good instead of simply nice, men would be men and women would not.

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/8/2008 5:14:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zamdad I agree with this. There are many "nice" guys who are not "good" at all. They know how to manipulate, connive, and cajole better than most women to serve their own desires. But, our culture accepts nice. Nice keeps the peace. Nice keeps things at a surface level where no one has to become uncomfortable. Being good can cause some temporary discomfort, but other soon see that the good guy has their interests/desires in mind instead of self. Perhaps if more of us would get the courage to be good instead of simply nice, men would be men and women would not. Amen. Also, when we really READ the gospel accounts of Jesus, there are many numerous times where Jesus would not be considered “nice” by today’s so-called pc standards. Most churches would probably ask Him to leave due to His tendency to confront/rebuke/admonish other as needed. As for me, may the Father strengthen me to follow Him, and not some silly, romantic notion another gospel that has been taking shape since the cross.

Beanteaser -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/21/2008 7:59:32 PM)
This has been an observation of mine the past few weeks. The interim pastor is a very emotional speaker and always does an alter call at the end of his sermons. Women usually are much more responsive, maybe 3 or 4 women for every guy. I can only think of three possible reasons for this...there are probably more though. -women have more issues then men, including struggling with sin -men have too much pride to respond -since women are more emotional then men (usually), women would respond to an emotional call. The first one is highly unlikely, the second is possible, but the third seems most likely.

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/22/2008 12:38:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Beanteaser This has been an observation of mine the past few weeks. The interim pastor is a very emotional speaker and always does an alter call at the end of his sermons. Women usually are much more responsive, maybe 3 or 4 women for every guy. I can only think of three possible reasons for this...there are probably more though. -women have more issues then men, including struggling with sin -men have too much pride to respond -since women are more emotional then men (usually), women would respond to an emotional call. The first one is highly unlikely, the second is possible, but the third seems most likely. It’s mostly about emotions and experiences. We were reminded of this yesterday at a home-school event lead by women. I thank the Lord my wife has never been deceived by any of it.

denbert -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/22/2008 8:24:12 PM)
- Emotions for sure. Not only in church but in the workplace.

YZGUY -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/24/2008 6:52:51 PM)
quote: I thank the Lord my wife has never been deceived by any of it. Notmycity - Are you saying that emotions are deceitful, emotions are used for deceit, or something else? Emotions are not evil or to be ignored, but I do agree that there is a danger when one only has emotional experiences in faith and there is no content or truth. Though I'm not sure if you can truly have one without the other - but a balance is necessary.

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/29/2008 1:35:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YZGUY quote: I thank the Lord my wife has never been deceived by any of it. Notmycity - Are you saying that emotions are deceitful, emotions are used for deceit, or something else? Emotions are not evil or to be ignored, but I do agree that there is a danger when one only has emotional experiences in faith and there is no content or truth. Though I'm not sure if you can truly have one without the other - but a balance is necessary. It’s the overemphasis on emotion and experience that is deceitful. For years now, all I hear about is “emotion and experience”,whereas the truth of God’s Word is twisted or ignored entirely in these so-called churches.

JimboFletch -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/29/2008 2:30:32 PM)
- Jesus wept.

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/29/2008 2:42:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch - Jesus wept. Yes He did. One example of female emotionalism is this: A friend of my wife’s had remarked that when she was “feeling down” that hymns lifted her up and “made her spirit soar”. This woman is ruled in large part by her emotions, as are many men too. When my wife needs encouragement I comfort her with Scripture and she does likewise for me. Again, the “church” has become a place where people attend for the “experience”. That is NOT why the Scriptures say to gather.

JimboFletch -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/29/2008 4:31:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch - Jesus wept. Yes He did. One example of female emotionalism is this: A friend of my wife’s had remarked that when she was “feeling down” that hymns lifted her up and “made her spirit soar”. This woman is ruled in large part by her emotions, as are many men too... Reminds me of the largest book in the Bible... the one in its center... the Psalms. If spending time in there doesn't light your fire, then your wood's all wet. Just because the Psalms or hymns or watching the 3 Stooges lifts my spirits is no indicator that I'm ruled in large part by emotions. It simply means I'm human.

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/29/2008 4:34:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch - Jesus wept. Yes He did. One example of female emotionalism is this: A friend of my wife’s had remarked that when she was “feeling down” that hymns lifted her up and “made her spirit soar”. This woman is ruled in large part by her emotions, as are many men too... Reminds me of the largest book in the Bible... the one in its center... the Psalms. If spending time in there doesn't light your fire, then your wood's all wet. Just because the Psalms or hymns or watching the 3 Stooges lifts my spirits is no indicator that I'm ruled in large part by emotions. It simply means I'm human. You've missed the point entirely...

JimboFletch -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/30/2008 8:19:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch - Jesus wept. Yes He did. One example of female emotionalism is this: A friend of my wife’s had remarked that when she was “feeling down” that hymns lifted her up and “made her spirit soar”. This woman is ruled in large part by her emotions, as are many men too... Reminds me of the largest book in the Bible... the one in its center... the Psalms. If spending time in there doesn't light your fire, then your wood's all wet. Just because the Psalms or hymns or watching the 3 Stooges lifts my spirits is no indicator that I'm ruled in large part by emotions. It simply means I'm human. You've missed the point entirely... Then enlighten us as to your point in plain English. Simply reviling me doesn't help anyone.

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/30/2008 2:19:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch - Jesus wept. Yes He did. One example of female emotionalism is this: A friend of my wife’s had remarked that when she was “feeling down” that hymns lifted her up and “made her spirit soar”. This woman is ruled in large part by her emotions, as are many men too... Reminds me of the largest book in the Bible... the one in its center... the Psalms. If spending time in there doesn't light your fire, then your wood's all wet. Just because the Psalms or hymns or watching the 3 Stooges lifts my spirits is no indicator that I'm ruled in large part by emotions. It simply means I'm human. You've missed the point entirely... Then enlighten us as to your point in plain English. Simply reviling me doesn't help anyone. Feel free to read my earlier posts. With all due respect, I can’t help but see many of your posts of late being analogous to a kid with a stick preparing to poke a hornet’s nest. Of course, I am prepared to converse with you when you put the stick away. Thanks....

Quasiblogo -> RE: Is church too feminine? (4/30/2008 8:28:49 PM)
I'm concerned that a lot of hymns and songs are too high-pitched for many men...relegating them (and me often) to just humming or mumbling along. That's why in a lot of churches you predominantly hear females singing in the congregation and with the strong-voiced males among the choir and worship leaders. En toto, this is not congregational singing.

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 10:11:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Quasiblogo I'm concerned that a lot of hymns and songs are too high-pitched for many men...relegating them (and me often) to just humming or mumbling along. That's why in a lot of churches you predominantly hear females singing in the congregation and with the strong-voiced males among the choir and worship leaders. En toto, this is not congregational singing. 100% agreed!

JimboFletch -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 10:26:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: Quasiblogo I'm concerned that a lot of hymns and songs are too high-pitched for many men...relegating them (and me often) to just humming or mumbling along. That's why in a lot of churches you predominantly hear females singing in the congregation and with the strong-voiced males among the choir and worship leaders. En toto, this is not congregational singing. 100% agreed! It may be a problem if you are attempting to sing melody - which is suited for soprano voice, i.e. the female voice. We guys should be singing tenor or bass. Unless you sing soprano or alto, both female parts, you shouldn't have a problem with any key... unless you know nothing about music, in which case, this shouldn't be an issue with you. [Edited to correct a word]

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 11:39:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: Quasiblogo I'm concerned that a lot of hymns and songs are too high-pitched for many men...relegating them (and me often) to just humming or mumbling along. That's why in a lot of churches you predominantly hear females singing in the congregation and with the strong-voiced males among the choir and worship leaders. En toto, this is not congregational singing. 100% agreed! It may be a problem if you are attempting to sing melody - which is suited for soprano voice, i.e. the female voice. We guys should be singing tenor or bass. Unless you sing soprano or alto, both female parts, you shouldn't have a problem with any key... unless you know nothing about music, in which case, this shouldn't be an issue with you. [Edited to correct a word] quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: Quasiblogo I'm concerned that a lot of hymns and songs are too high-pitched for many men...relegating them (and me often) to just humming or mumbling along. That's why in a lot of churches you predominantly hear females singing in the congregation and with the strong-voiced males among the choir and worship leaders. En toto, this is not congregational singing. 100% agreed! It may be a problem if you are attempting to sing melody - which is suited for soprano voice, i.e. the female voice. We guys should be singing tenor or bass. Unless you sing soprano or alto, both female parts, you shouldn't have a problem with any key... unless you know nothing about music, in which case, this shouldn't be an issue with you. [Edited to correct a word] Most people don’t have a musical background, so to transpose the music in favor of tenors (the highest male voice in the modal register) and sopranos is simply another indicator of the female slant in churches. This is true whether the songs are “traditional” hymns or modern contemporary. We’ve also noted that the music is usually led by women who sing soprano or men who are either tenors or who sing in falsetto. My wife can sing, but not soprano, and I typically sing either alto or bass. Most men can’t find their part on alto or bass, so they don’t sing. As for me, I never cared for the “girly man” songs, so I usually sit them out, and that’s with years of experience singing semi-pro.

JimboFletch -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 11:47:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity Most people don’t have a musical background, so to transpose the music in favor of tenors (the highest male voice in the modal register) and sopranos is simply another indicator of the female slant in churches. With all due respect, this simply proves my point, you do not understand music and your point isn't valid. There is no "translation" involved. Even if you cannot sing the male part, you can sing melody an octave lower than the women. IOW, if you cannot find a comfortable place to sing, you cannot sing it in any key. Perhaps, you would be better suited to be an usher or to operate the PowerPoint slides. quote: This is true whether the songs are “traditional” hymns or modern contemporary. We’ve also noted that the music is usually led by women who sing soprano or men who are either tenors or who sing in falsetto. Doesn't matter how high they sing, you do not have to sing in the same octave. quote: My wife can sing, but not soprano, and I typically sing either alto or bass. Most men can’t find their part on alto or bass, so they don’t sing. Bass is a big jump down from bass... unless you sing it down an octave. quote: As for me, I never cared for the “girly man” songs, so I usually sit them out, and that’s with years of experience singing semi-pro. If you sang semi-pro, you should know that your arguments on this aspect is just being quarrelsome and are not valid. There are no "giry man" keys.

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 12:09:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch If you sang semi-pro, you should know that your arguments on this aspect is just being quarrelsome and are not valid. There are no "giry man" keys. Music experience includes (but is not limited to) (Classical) • Violin • Viola (first chair in orchestra) • Cello • Bass • trombone The above involved knowing and playing in the treble, alto and bass clef. (Original Rock and Celtic) • lead vocals • backing vocals • bass guitar • synthesizers • flutes in various keys • percussion • drums We’re played to some pretty large crowds and even drew attention away from established and signed acts on a few occasions. Also, just because I’m a musician since grade school, I can still empathize with those who are not. Songs and music are transposed up or down, depending usually on the preference of the main performers. I personally have seen this when I played with “worship” teams.

JimboFletch -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 12:20:25 PM)
quote: Songs and music are transposed up or down, depending usually on the preference of the main performers. I'm not guessing about my comments on music. I was a music major in college and have played 1st trumpet in our church orchestra since 1991 (also played in high school from 1964 on, college [jazz band & syphony], and in the Navy). I also have played French Horn, tuba, and baritone. In addition, I took piano classes and gave recitals in college. I have written dozens of band and orchestra arrangements from my high school days and into recent years.. I've also sung some in choirs before my church started its orchestra. I still say that key is not an issue unless you are stuck with singing a specific part in a specific octave and key does not make one song "girly man" compared to another. If you are in the congregation and really WANT to praise God in song, you'll sing, find notes in a comfortable range for your voice, and not focus on if a song is manly enough for you.

notmycity -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 12:44:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch .....If you are in the congregation and really WANT to praise God in song, you'll sing, find notes in a comfortable range for your voice, and not focus on if a song is manly enough for you. Then again.... 1 Cor 16:13 13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. Apparently acting like a man means enough for the Spirit to inspire the above Scripture.

JimboFletch -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 12:50:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch .....If you are in the congregation and really WANT to praise God in song, you'll sing, find notes in a comfortable range for your voice, and not focus on if a song is manly enough for you. Then again.... 1 Cor 16:13 13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. Apparently acting like a man means enough for the Spirit to inspire the above Scripture. That has nothing to do with your assertion that the key signature makes a song manly or girly. Nada. Do you also think song meter makes a song manly or girly too? If so, I'm sure you have a verse that states 3/4 is girly and 9/8 is gay. [8\|]

YZGUY -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 4:56:41 PM)
Yeah - but who can pee farther?? Let's move on gents...

JimboFletch -> RE: Is church too feminine? (5/1/2008 5:10:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YZGUY Yeah - but who can pee farther?? Let's move on gents... It's been quite for like 4 hours now. Seems we already moved on. [8D]

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