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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 10:42:07 AM
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lw9
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quote:
prophetica: Hank makes statements concerning God all the time on the air. God Reigns supreme in the Kingdom of Heaven above. How come you think that Hank does not believe the Scripture when Scripture teaches that if anyone speaks they should speak this way?
Ah. So you don't have evidence and examples of Hanegraff claiming to speak directly from God as a self-proclaimed prophet and giving relevatory 'words'.
Well, that clears that up.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 10:43:40 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5381
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From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
prophetica: Therefore, every word Hank says is accountable in public format as everyone elses is; publicly or privately. We are held to the same law as the prophets were.
When did Hanegraff say "The Lord told me..." and claim to be speaking words directly from God as a prophet.
Post the sources from Hanegraff. Thanks.
He doesn't have any.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 12:20:31 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Therefore, you propose that you would not accept a prophet of God as the forefathers of Israel would not accept them at times.
However, remember this: If someone comes in their own name to gain honor for themselves you accept them, but if someone comes in The Power of The Name some propose that it should be Judged more strictly and without faith to make the greater error of contempt for prophecy. Jesus said instead that the sons are exempt.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
prophetica: Hank makes statements concerning God all the time on the air. God Reigns supreme in the Kingdom of Heaven above. How come you think that Hank does not believe the Scripture when Scripture teaches that if anyone speaks they should speak this way?
Ah. So you don't have evidence and examples of Hanegraff claiming to speak directly from God as a self-proclaimed prophet and giving relevatory 'words'.
Well, that clears that up.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 12:25:33 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Then Hank is no authority on prophecy or phenomenon that one should listen to him at all in these things. He has no power other than to run his mouth inappropriately, at times, on his own. But Jesus said that the one that speaks to gain honor for the One that sent him is a person of Truth and there is nothing false in that person.
Tell me, then, when did hank hear God tell him to do the 'ministry' that he is doing? Where is his calling? Was it from people, or from God?
Jesus said: you have neither seen His Form, nor heard His voice. Yet, that servant that does not know His Masters Will, will be beaten with fewer blows.....
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
prophetica: Therefore, every word Hank says is accountable in public format as everyone elses is; publicly or privately. We are held to the same law as the prophets were.
When did Hanegraff say "The Lord told me..." and claim to be speaking words directly from God as a prophet.
Post the sources from Hanegraff. Thanks.
He doesn't have any.
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/20/2008 12:34:04 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 2:22:21 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2531
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From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
If Hank is in The Kingdom of God, and not the kingdom of apostasy, then he is held to this same standard if what he says does not come to pass regarding his faith
As ahs been mention Hank doesn't utter prophecy in the sense of foretelling the future. There fore your point on this matter. Where has he written falsely about someone's teachings?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 2:53:16 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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That means that hank speaks on his own, not of God. Hank is a witness for himself regarding his own faith, and will be judged by his own words regarding others as well. If what hank says comes to pass, he has faith. If what hank says results in no reward in heaven, he will suffer loss.
To condemn prophecy is to make the same error as some did before. They did not accept the Testimony of the Holy Prophets until afterward. Then, they dressed their graves saying that they would not have killed the Prophets or mistreated them. Therefore, seven worse unclean entered the equation as Jesus and Paul said. The Righteous Commandment of God produced in me death in the flesh. Paul said something like: Was the law sin, or was sin working in me to produce evil fruits in the flesh that were even worse than those that would have occurred without it? That those who believe should be condemned by men in the flesh according to the law of sin which brings death. For the wages will be paid to the worker. The one who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave does not remain in the house forever, but children remain forever. For if The Son sets us free, we will be free from the law of sin with regard to The Spirit of God. But the wages of sin is death and God freely gave life in Christ.
With regard to the gift of prophecy, it is considered a greater gift to desire most for it is useful for edifying the Body of Christ unto good works.
One must not reduce God to mere teachings taught by people and expect justification by faith. For faith is being sure of what we know and confident of what we do not see. If God does things right in front of the natural eyes of people, and they do not believe, how is that faith? All the more, there would be accountability for those who would not believe on the basis of what they do perceive so that all people are without excuse. For Paul says to the galatians: you foolish galatians, Christ was crucified right in front of you! How can Paul be speaking about this unless it was a vision given to the whole congregation? They were entrusted with more, and were proving less believing.
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
If Hank is in The Kingdom of God, and not the kingdom of apostasy, then he is held to this same standard if what he says does not come to pass regarding his faith
As ahs been mention Hank doesn't utter prophecy in the sense of foretelling the future. There fore your point on this matter. Where has he written falsely about someone's teachings?
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/20/2008 3:10:27 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 3:06:07 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5381
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prophetica, ....., .john., whatever,
So every single Christian that speaks, that teaches has to do so in a "thus saith the Lord..." manner? What in the heavens are you even rambling about in here?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 3:07:46 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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The Scripture teaches that if one speaks they should speak like this. One does not have to say 'The lord says' to be speaking Word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
prophetica, ....., .john., whatever,
So every single Christian that speaks, that teaches has to do so in a "thus saith the Lord..." manner? What in the heavens are you even rambling about in here?
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/21/2008 4:58:09 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 3:20:36 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5381
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
The Sripture teaches that if one speaks they should speak like this. One does not have to say 'The lord says' to be speaking Word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
prophetica, ....., .john., whatever,
So every single Christian that speaks, that teaches has to do so in a "thus saith the Lord..." manner? What in the heavens are you even rambling about in here?
You just contradicted yourself. Earlier you said that because Hank does not speak prophesies like "Thus saith the Lord....." that then all he does say regarding the Bible, Christianity, etc is bogus.
Is English a second or third language for you? Maybe we're just dealing with a language barrier here?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 3:32:39 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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LOL!! You say that I speak like a 'foreigner'. Are you a native to earth, then? Why do you claim that you are not?
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
The Sripture teaches that if one speaks they should speak like this. One does not have to say 'The lord says' to be speaking Word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
prophetica, ....., .john., whatever,
So every single Christian that speaks, that teaches has to do so in a "thus saith the Lord..." manner? What in the heavens are you even rambling about in here?
You just contradicted yourself. Earlier you said that because Hank does not speak prophesies like "Thus saith the Lord....." that then all he does say regarding the Bible, Christianity, etc is bogus.
Is English a second or third language for you? Maybe we're just dealing with a language barrier here?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 3:39:21 PM
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bride48
Posts: 5151
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
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I have no clue as to what Prophetia is saying, other than that he dislikes Hank Hanegraaf. I wish he would state his objections clearly instead of stringing together Scriptures without explaining how those Scriptures support his position. In a debate thread, isn't it important to state one's position clearly?
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
John's Birthday Adventure (blog entry)
<--Taken on August 24, 2008: our 6th anniversary
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 3:41:11 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
With regard to the gift of prophecy, it is considered a greater gift to desire most for it is useful for edifying the Body of Christ unto good works.
In this regards, prophecy is not the foretelling of future events, but the proper proclaimation of God's Word. It is this Word that commands that false teachers and their false doctrine be exposed.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 5:57:21 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2015
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
Hello! Here is the source: If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
The least in the Kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist. Therefore, every word Hank says is accountable in public format as everyone elses is; publicly or privately. We are held to the same law as the prophets were. Jesus said that men will have to give account for every word spoken on the Day of Judgment. If Hank is in The Kingdom of God, and not the kingdom of apostasy, then he is held to this same standard if what he says does not come to pass regarding his faith. For by your words you will be judged or aquitted.
Well, either Hank is right or those he criticizes are right, or neither. Why do YOU not hold THEM to the same standard that you are holding Hank?
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 5:58:32 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2015
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
I have no clue as to what Prophetia is saying, other than that he dislikes Hank Hanegraaf. I wish he would state his objections clearly instead of stringing together Scriptures without explaining how those Scriptures support his position. In a debate thread, isn't it important to state one's position clearly?
You noticed that too?
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 6:05:09 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1174
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
earthless: Is English a second or third language for you? Maybe we're just dealing with a language barrier here?
I've noticed that prophetica is quite capable of writing perfectly well and making clear statements when it's convenient to do so.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 6:19:38 PM
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bride48
Posts: 5151
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
I have no clue as to what Prophetia is saying, other than that he dislikes Hank Hanegraaf. I wish he would state his objections clearly instead of stringing together Scriptures without explaining how those Scriptures support his position. In a debate thread, isn't it important to state one's position clearly?
You noticed that too?
I'm good at noticing elephants in the room. 
So, Prophetica, will you please explain, in clear, cogent writing, what your primary objection to Hanegraff is? When you use Scripture, please explain how each paasage applies to your arguement. It would help us understand your points much better. Thanks!
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
John's Birthday Adventure (blog entry)
<--Taken on August 24, 2008: our 6th anniversary
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 6:21:03 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2015
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
The Sripture teaches that if one speaks they should speak like this. One does not have to say 'The lord says' to be speaking Word.
It doesn't mean that. It is NOT saying that our words are to be taken as if they are God's words. It is an admonition to be as careful as possible.
The phrase "as it were" is Strong's 5613. It has a sense of indefiniteness. It is not saying that the person's words are to be regarded as if they come from God.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 6:22:59 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2015
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
I have no clue as to what Prophetia is saying, other than that he dislikes Hank Hanegraaf. I wish he would state his objections clearly instead of stringing together Scriptures without explaining how those Scriptures support his position. In a debate thread, isn't it important to state one's position clearly?
Bride48
Prophetica doesn't like his favorite ox(en) getting gored. Instead of addressing the errors of those Hank exposes, prophetica goes after Hank. Prophetica is grasping at straws to find some fault with Hank.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 4/20/2008 6:37:53 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 6:28:44 PM
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bride48
Posts: 5151
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
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Larry, I still hope Prophetica will explain clearly his or her objections. I think doing so will further this discussion.
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
John's Birthday Adventure (blog entry)
<--Taken on August 24, 2008: our 6th anniversary
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 7:37:58 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5381
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
I have no clue as to what Prophetia is saying, other than that he dislikes Hank Hanegraaf. I wish he would state his objections clearly instead of stringing together Scriptures without explaining how those Scriptures support his position. In a debate thread, isn't it important to state one's position clearly?
Agreed, but this seems to be the way he/she always posts. It's rather confusing and a waste of all of our time if he/she can't even make clear what they are saying.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 10:17:07 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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This thread is not about the other ministries. This thread is about Hank's. Both can be correct or in error, at times. It does not have to be all or nothing. Attitude is important, also. Who has a monopoly on Christ? God alone does.
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
Hello! Here is the source: If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
The least in the Kingdom of God is greater than John the Baptist. Therefore, every word Hank says is accountable in public format as everyone elses is; publicly or privately. We are held to the same law as the prophets were. Jesus said that men will have to give account for every word spoken on the Day of Judgment. If Hank is in The Kingdom of God, and not the kingdom of apostasy, then he is held to this same standard if what he says does not come to pass regarding his faith. For by your words you will be judged or aquitted.
Well, either Hank is right or those he criticizes are right, or neither. Why do YOU not hold THEM to the same standard that you are holding Hank?
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/20/2008 10:23:49 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 10:18:23 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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It was such a waste of time to talk about me when the topic is about Hank's ministry, instead.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
I have no clue as to what Prophetia is saying, other than that he dislikes Hank Hanegraaf. I wish he would state his objections clearly instead of stringing together Scriptures without explaining how those Scriptures support his position. In a debate thread, isn't it important to state one's position clearly?
Agreed, but this seems to be the way he/she always posts. It's rather confusing and a waste of all of our time if he/she can't even make clear what they are saying.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/20/2008 10:37:23 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2531
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
It was such a waste of time to talk about me when the topic is about Hank's ministry, instead.
The thread is about Hank, but your style of writing sometimes causes comfusion.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/21/2008 7:57:17 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5381
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
It was such a waste of time to talk about me when the topic is about Hank's ministry, instead.
What is a waste of time is when you post a bunch of things that do not relate to the topic at hand or you don't explain how what you post/hyper-link has to do with the topic at hand.
I am not the only one to think that about your posts, I would say pretty much everyone here does.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 4/21/2008 4:43:28 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2015
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
This thread is not about the other ministries. This thread is about Hank's.
But His main ministry is an apologetics ministry. He doesn't speak in a vacuum. It is often with reference to people who are teaching error.
Your main criticism is concerning what Hank says about them. If Hank is right about them, then Hank is doing a worthwhile ministry and ought to be commended for exposing error. If Hank is wrong about them, then Hank ought to be condemned about slandering people.
quote:
Both can be correct or in error, at times. It does not have to be all or nothing. Attitude is important, also. Who has a monopoly on Christ? God alone does.
I agree. Did I say or imply otherwise? And I believe Hank would agree with that too.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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