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pray4all -> RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. (4/29/2008 5:45:52 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: pray4all
i've got quickverse so i check it myself above is what is there and if you check pp164 of hanks book, he quotes from ken hagin and ken copeland, to condemn them men, but what he uses in statements from those men, john calvin said the exact same thing in the above quote, so obviously hank either was not aware of calvins theology or he intentianily omitted it, in order to try and make a point against the 2 kens. and try to make it apear as if this topic was a metaphysical teaching. which it is not.
I've heard WoF preaching go beyond this into suffering at the hands of the devil(s) for three days, being offered a "burnt offering" by burnt in hell, and worse. I really don't think Calvin is going beyond the redemption on the cross being the full payment for sin. The section ten quotes seem to say that more than _merely_ a normal death took place, while the section eleven quotes would indicate a description of the suffering _on_ the cross when He said, "my God, my God...."
wintery maybe you should pick up the book christanity in crisis, you will notice on pp164, hank says that copeland states "Jesus death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption"
also hank condems haggin for saying he (Jesus) tasted spiritual death for every man, and his spirit and inner man went to hell in my place, can't you see that? physical death wouldn't remove your sins. he's tasted death for every man. he's talking about tasting spiritual death
tried to color code it a little to help out
but anyhow the point is
1) hagin did not get this from methypisical cult as hank tries to claim
2) mainstrean christanity already had this kind of theology, if one considers calvin mainstream
3)if hank knew of calvins theology he intentionally misrepresented orthodox theology (if calvin is orthodox) to attack others.
4)if hank did not know of calvins theology then perhaps he should step down from attacking others
5)it also implies hank doesn't know didley about methypiscal cult beliefs
6)hank himself is not above reproach
btw i agree i have heard some relly stupid stuff from the pulpit, from all denominations. [&o]
it would be so much nicer if christanity could just keep it all simple as in like child like faith
the below is not in its entirity read it in its entirity for a clearer understanding
quote:
(John Calvin, institute of christian religion) I will show here, this teaching was already in the church theology, and church creed. Most of us probably have quick verse on our computers if you do, don’t just take my word for it, see for yourself, if it is there or not.What did John Calvin born 1509 say concerning Jesus entering hell and suffering spiritual torment there?? INSTITUES OF THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION, BOOK 2, CHAPTER 16, SECTION 8,HERE WE MUST NOT OMIT THE DESCENDT TO HELL, WHICH IS OF NO LITTLE IMPORTANCE TO THE ACCOMPLISHMENT OF REDEMPTION!!! ……………….THIS MUCH IS UNCONTROVERTED, THAT IT WAS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GENERAL SENTIMENT OF ALL BELIVERS, SINCE THERE IS NONE OF THE CHURCH FATHERS WHO DOES NOT MENTION CHRIST’S DESCENT INTO HELL…….The chief thing to be attended to in the creed is, that it furnishes us with a full and every way complete summary of faith, containing nothing but what has been derived from the infallible word of God. But should any scruple to give it admission into the creed, it will shortly be made plain, that the place which it holds in a summary of our redemption is so important, that the omission of it greatly detracts from the benefit of Christ’s death.
section 10, But apart from the creed, we must seek for a surer exposition of Christ’s descent to hell, and the word of God furnishes us with one not only pious and holy, but replete with excellent consolation. nothing had been done if Christ had only endured corporeal death. In order to interpose between us and God’s anger, and satisfy his righteous judgment…………….not only was the body of Christ given up as the price of redemption, but that there was a greater and more excellent price-that he bore in his soul (spirit) the tortures of condemned and ruined man.
section 11, and certainly no abyss can be imagined more dreadful than to feel that you are abandoned, and forsaken of God, and not heard when you invoke him, just as if he had conspired your destruction. To such a degree was Christ dejected, that in the depth of his agony he was forced to exclaim, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?……………………Thus by engaging with the power of the devil, the fear of death, and the pains of hell, he gained the victory, and achieved a triumph, so that we now fear not in death those things which our Prince has destroyed. Section 13 Next follows the resurrection from the dead, without which all that has hitherto been said would be defective. For seeing that in the cross, death, and burial of Christ, nothing but weakness appears, faith must go beyond all these, in order that it may be provided with full strength. end of my quote from “institutes of the Christian religion”, by John Calvin.
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