RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (Full Version)

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jfaye -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:12:24 PM)

Can we all stop this very moment and pray that Satan be bound from tormenting Zion?
Five mins. or more--can we do that?



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:21:54 PM)

zion, it seems to me that if we give satan a foothold in doubt, he will sure take advange of it and make it grow.

I know Jesus is real and He loves you so much. Deep down I think you know it too. Please get back into His word and ask Him to reveal Himself to you anew.



ta_mosquito -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:23:33 PM)

Moved from FaithWalk to General Faith.


Thanks!

Tricia
Forums Moderator

Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.

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sparkleingsnow -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:24:07 PM)

praying jfaye



jfaye -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:27:52 PM)

"Be still--and know--that I Am God"!

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with
thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard
your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."

Thank you, Tricia![:(][:)]



zion7777777 -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:36:29 PM)

thank you all for your time and prayers and help...i will continue to pray just as i have been all along and read....you hear stories of miraculous coversions everyday, maybe I can have my 2nd one :) If you want to send me an email so that one day i will be able to reply with news of a new revelation, feel free, jeff_k_hunt@yahoo.com



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:39:33 PM)

Father, we have been and we remain united in prayer for Your precious child, zion. Father we ask that You bind the enemy. That You Jesus gentley pick up zion and place him back in the fold. That his faith may not only be renewed, but grown stronger than ever through this trial. We love You, and thank You, and praise You Lord. In Jesus precious name. Amen



jfaye -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:43:56 PM)

zion--I've copied your email address! If we don't hear from you again, I will continue
to pray for you, and pray the Lord brings you to mind often. If I don't hear back here
from you in a long while, hopefully I will get up the courage to email you. I'm always
reluctant to do that from an open forum for reasons we all can attest to. I will trust the
Lord will make it possible for you to come back here and attest to your victory and your
renewed zeal for the Lord. It will, no doubt, be to such an intensity as you never experienced
previously having been 'saved' from the miry pit of doubt! That indeed is a horrible place to
find oneself!!!![:(]



Jhud -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:47:14 PM)

Hi zion.

I just wanted to say one little thing here, I don’t know if it will help, but I say it as a former agnostic and skeptic who could (and has) written reams and reams about reasons to believe that the Gospels are true and Jesus is real. I am fully confident of this fact, and have sent a lot of time defending why I am confident of this fact.

But I don’t really feel it’s necessary to lay that all out again, because you already have sufficient evidence in front of your eyes to know the Gospels are true. You said it yourself. This is what you said:

"I am married to a great christian woman."

You know how many people look for a great spouse? Do you know how many sad, pathetic, broken, dysfunctional families there are out there? I am quite certain that if you were able to get to know Mr. angry skeptical youtube guy you would find he has almost nothing to offer you by way of experiencing the joy, happiness, and success where it really counts in life – with one’s relationships, with one’s personal joy and peace. I have been there, the angry skeptical life – there is nothing there – it’s a big empty shell with a bunch of unbelievers running around shouting so as to mask their meaningless lives. What you see there is the actual delusion, and no person is the better for it, and the fact that they are worse for it is evidence that believing in Christ is what is real.

But you have something they don’t have, and the living, breathing women you regard as ‘great’ is evidence enough of the reality of Christ. Don’t dismiss that for some pathetic losers who lead such dismal lives they feel the need to drag others down with them. Just continue to live what you already know to be true – Christ lives, and He has the power to change lives, and we can experience that.



jfaye -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:47:44 PM)

Maybe one of our faithful 'guys' would feel led to email you directly, Jeff!
I'm praying that will be the case!



siapa -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:52:19 PM)

Hmmm...somehow this reminds me of the Da Vinci's Code! But deep inside my heart, Jesus Christ will reveal THE TRUTH in due time. My previous post, about NOT being able to concentrate during prayers, proves that satan is always trying anything possible to detach us from Our Loving God. JESUS CHRIST FOREVER....AMEN



zion7777777 -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:52:30 PM)

if it is eaiser or you feel it is safer, you can go to the website of my store and click the email address there, as i said before, the store closed this december so the phone #s are no longer connected...
www.annapolischristianbookstore.com

Either way, I just hope to get this all sorted out...the truth will prevail and i am seeking the TRUTH... Again, thank you all for the prayers.



benelchi -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:53:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zion7777777

the one i watched is : How do we know that Christians are delusional?

The link is : [link removed by moderator - TOS 15]

when i first watched it, it didnt bother me, it actually made me angry, b/c they refer to the holy spirit as a magical ghost and use magically ALOT, and i felt like most of what it says is someone who is angry at God and reaching to disprove him...

But somehow, doubt came in...


This is not the the same video I saw, but clearly made by the same person who made the video I saw.

Some observations:

1) The argument is based on a false premise. i.e the unproven assumption is made that every supernatural occurrence must be untrue and this is a logical fallacy; to explain what I mean I will use the classic examples of logic arguments. The following argument is valid. "All dogs are brown. Ed is a dog. Ed is brown", but the following argument is logically not valid; "All dogs are brown. Ed is brown therefore ed is a dog." In a similar fashion the his argument , "All religious delusions speak of the supernatural. Christianity speaks of the supernatural. Therefore Christianity is a delusion", logically fails in exactly the same way as concluding that "ed is a dog simply because he is brown" logically fails; just as things other than dogs can be brown, things other than religious delusions can speak of the supernatural.

2) He spends a great deal of time pointing out the objective and verifiable errors of other religions of other religions i.e Mormonism and Islam as a basis for concluding that their supernatural stories are fictitious, but he simply ignores the objective and verifiable facts of the Christian faith, likely because he knows that they are easily substantiated. Christians do not believe the claims of Mormonism and of Islam simply because they make claims about the supernatural, but because they make historical and objective claims which can be evaluated, and which have been proven to be untrue. If those religions are unreliable about those aspects that we can validate, why would we trust them about things that must be left to faith?

3) He makes dishonest statements to support his case i.e. he says that every scientific study on prayer has shown it to be superstition; however, most studies I have seen on prayer have shown that prayer is very effective. To the nonbeliever, there is (and will always be) a question about whether prayer itself was the cause, or whether the results are entirely the effect of the placebo effect, but to state that ALL scientific studies have shown prayer to be ineffective is simply untrue.



jfaye -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 1:59:05 PM)

My emailing concern is more about the 'gal to guy' communication, Jeff! It's just not the wisest thing
for us to do--Satan is so hugely out there and looking to take us out, even in our desire to help one
another. I think we so underestimate his agenda, and even more how tenacious he is becoming as
'the day ' draws nearer. He's so ANGRY!!!!![:@][sm=fireanger.gif]

He can read the 'end of the story' just as we do--and he's determined to hit us hard
not because we are so important, but because we are God's loved possession and he
hates God with a deep, seething vengeful rage!!!![sm=fireanger.gif][sm=fireanger.gif][sm=fireanger.gif]



joy2give2u -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 2:05:29 PM)

Zion7777777

I watched the youtube.com video you linked.

The primary mistake I found was in the use of the word delusional. The author compares Christianity, Mormon and Muslim to fairy tales or Greek Mythology.

He defines delusional as "a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact" then presents the main characters, including Jesus, as not fact.

The problem with his use of the word delusional and conclusion is ...all three were real people.

Mohammad existed, he spent time in a cave, he was told things to write. He did share a whole book to be penned. The truth is Mohammed had an encounter with someone or something which lead to having a book penned.

Joe, as the author calls Joseph, was a real man. He did exist. He did write the book of Mormon and he did claim to see and hear the things about which he wrote.

Jesus was a real person. He did die on the cross. He did perform miracles. He did teach to the multitudes. He did have others pen a book for Him.

All three were real people, all three have books written by others based on their lives and what was shown them.

None of the three meet his definition of delusional since all three religions are based on facts of events which did happen to the individuals.

The better choice for wording, replacing delusional, would be deceived.

The encounters and experiences of all three were real........millions of people believe they were real........

The question I would challenge you to ask is........Who did they encounter and were they deceived?

Who did Mohammad meet? Who spoke those words to him? Were they spoken by God or by a deceiver? Do the words given to him match the heart of the God you met when you were praising and worshiping Him? Or is it possible it was Satan doing what Satan does best......deceiving?

The same is true of Joseph. Does what he says, the words he spoke and wrote, match up with the facts of history? I am not questioning whether it is a fact Joseph had an encounter where words were spoken to him.....nor that he believed he was encountering God.......But who is it masquerading around like a Lion? Interesting both God and Satan can appear to be that of a Lion....don't you think?

Then we come to Jesus. Though he was the Son of God he claimed to do nothing except for what he saw and heard His Father do.....Is there anything in Jesus's teachings which contradict the God you met when you felt His presence? When he answered your prayers?

Three religions.......two fixed, one in motion

Two resistant to questions or challenges..........one thrives on confrontation of misbeliefs......

Two blind faiths .........and one which sees reasonable doubt as an opportunity for growth


Three men.........three voices..........two deceived, one received..........

Don't allow the deceiver to deceive you........

I will be praying for you.



jfaye -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 2:08:05 PM)

Great posts Jhud, and benelchi and joy2give2U!!!!

BTW, Jeff, there have been several 'Christian' bookstores that have gone out of business in our
area--it looks like Satan is doing a lot of effective work in taking them out. Have you thought, that
maybe you are part of the fallout of what he's really after doing in closing such a store as yours?

Am I way off base in this assumption?



zion7777777 -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 2:10:47 PM)

I did not mean for it to sound like i was wanting you to email me directly to conversate, I was just going on the comment, i think you made about the threads being removed and never hearing from the person about their future... I was giving my email for anyone who wanted to check in the future on this situation guy or girl never crossed my mind... I do totally understand what you are saying and respect that completely...I wrote the store web address b/c i thought you were concerned with computer viruses or something.... (i can be a little slow [image][/image])

Sorry....



jfaye -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 2:17:56 PM)

No problem, Jeff--I just wanted to be clear about my 'why' you might not hear
from me directly!!! I often find myself in a position to want to reach out to another
man, to witness to and to offer support! I think it's the fact that I lost my brother
when I was 12 and he was 9! I have a strong need to 'sister' someone! LOL But,
I also have to be very careful, I know so I make sure I steer clear of a situation
that the enemy WILL USE to his end, to make something even APPEAR wrong if it
can damage our testimony of Jesus as Lord and our walk with Him.

I will still keep your address! I may pass it on to a 'brother' on here that may not
have copied it, if we don't get to hear back from you! All in all--I EXPECT WE WILL
hear back good things!!!

I'm leaving you, here, awhile, in very good hands--getting out of the way of those
much more apt to dialog with you in a very rational, reasonablee way. I'll check back
later, probably tonight! I'm so thankful the Lord is answering prayer for these guys to come
on board and meet with you! God is working!

God bless you, Jeff and all of us who have a love for this man, that he hopefully can
see and feel right now!

"Thank You, Lord, for entrusting 'Jeff' to this place so that we can pray for him, and reach
out to him, not condemning him, but thankful he is so open about what is going on in his life,
as a warning to us all--to be on 'our guard', so that we may have the peace of having a mind
rested on You!"

"The steadfast of mind You will keep in perfect peace,
Because he trusts in You.
"Trust in the LORD forever,
For in GOD the LORD, we have an everlasting Rock."

The For the whole chapter of Isaiah 26--click here!

Later, Jeff!



Jhud -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 2:30:58 PM)

Wow. That was a really bad video. I was expecting something more I guess.

Benelchi is absolutely right – the entire premise of the video is horribly logically flawed. The premise is, “Lots of other people believe your religion is a fairy tale just as you believe theirs is a fairy tale, therefore your religion must be a fairy tale.”

It’s also, interestingly an argument that one can apply to any metaphysical belief.
First one creates a caricature of someone’s beliefs, then one calls the caricature irrational and the product of magical thinking, then one dismisses it based on the fact that most people would not accept such magical thinking

Let me demonstrate by applying the same argument to atheism:

Atheists believe some very odd things.

They believe that somewhere an infinite number of universes exist, and are magically being created and destroyed, even though no one can detect them.

They also believe our universe is one of these universes, and that it magically came together in just the right way so that life could exist on this planet, though there is no empirical evidence for this.

They also believe that chemicals magically came together to form the complexities of life, even though no one has ever observed chemicals doing that.

They further believe that once life existed, just the right circumstances came together to magically cause life to become more and more complex, until one day, quite mysteriously, it was complex enough to be self-aware, consider morality, have spiritual beliefs, and be able to modify the world around it; that is us!

They also believe that though these same processes that magically gave us the ability to think also gave us the ability to believe in God, think about spiritual things, and consider worlds beyond our own; such beliefs are just an aberration, an aberration which seems to be common to all humanity in all societies for all of known human history.

Now the number of people who actually believe these things are exceedingly small. In fact, perhaps more than 6 billion people stand outside of this atheist bubble, and reject such irrationality as a nonsensical fairy tale.

I am not trying to offend atheists, my hope in saying this is that they will reject this fairy tale as irrational, engage their brains, and see atheism for what it really is.

See how this works? It’s really not a substantive argument at all, because it can be applied to anything.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 2:53:53 PM)

zion, I didn't watch the video, as I don't want to give satan space.

But I wanted to share that for me God's word is the only thing that even makes since. That this world and our very being is random doesn't make since to me. That all that we are ends at our death doesn't make since. How useless life would be! The other religions whose leaders are dead and in the grave doesn't make since.
Fact after fact of what God's word teaches has been proven. That Jesus was real, died on the cross and rose again is real. You siad you've felt Him move in Your life. You know He's real! You just have to get your faith back. Keep talking to Him as you study His word. Hope this gives you something to think about. If I can answer any questions, let me know.

I will continue to pray for You.



Ignited-Faith -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 3:51:05 PM)

Zion,
You mentioned:
"I felt as if i were really close to God (Jesus). I had many intimate encounters, being slain in the spirit many times, speaking in tongues often and feeling his presence...."
-----------
I wasn't asking about "encounters", I was asking did you feel that you had a real relationship with the Lord.
Was He ever the first thing on your mind when you woke up in the morning? Did you walk and talk with Him throughout your day?
Did you ever find Him to be the only one who could ever fill the void that was in your life? Did you ever receive His love and feel like you would explode if He gave you more at that moment? Did you read the Scriptures and love them? Did you obey the Scriptures, even if it was hard to do at times, and find unspeakable joy as a result?
Did you meditate on Scriptures that really spoke to your heart?
(Sorry I could go on. I think you get my point.)



jfaye -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 4:15:51 PM)

Oh my--I need to get some stuff done in my 'other' life but I just can't stay away from
here, today!

I just have to pop back in to 'give a witness' to what 'ignited' has described as a relationship
with the Lord. I TOTALLY identify with her experience! Wow--thank you, 'ignited' for sharing
that! He's the first thing on my mind when I wake up and there are times that I have had so
much of Him, that I thought I would literally burst from the joy, not able to contain the swelling
in my heart from within! That just gave me so much joy, hearing it was your experience, too,
'ignited'!!! You've blessed my day!!!

I am constantly 'dialogging' with Him all day long! Sometimes His words just leap off the page
at me! He leads me on many 'rabbit trails' in what I've decided to make a study, that leads me
to a point of exhilerating joy when I see how He pulls His thoughts together for me, and confirms
His truth, with more truth! That is what it is like, to walk with Him, to relate with Him and to love
Him more each time we experience Him in this way! If we are not in His word, faithfully, looking
to hear Him, and learn from Him, it is so easy to get side-tracked and leave ourselves 'unguarded'
and vulnerable to the enemy! I've experienced that aspect, as well!!!

Keep on, keeping on, looking to believe! Call on Him, then go to His word and like Jacob wrestling
with the angel of the Lord, refuse to let go, until He makes Himself known to you. He will honor that
determination!!

Genesis 32:24 Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak.

25 When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the
socket of Jacob's thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him.

26 Then he said, "Let me go, for the dawn is breaking." But he said, "I will not let you go unless
you bless me."

27 So he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob."

28 He said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with
men and have prevailed."

29 Then Jacob asked him and said, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?"
And he blessed him there.

30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."

It will be well worth it, even if you wind up with a limp, to have come face to face with God, in your
wrestling! Of course, I mean that in a spiritual sense--the face to face part! [:)] But, we do that
when we have an encounter with Him that forever changes our lives, to walk with Him in greater faith!

Back to work for me--for awhile more!!![:o]



rcjames -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 4:28:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zion7777777

thank you all for your time and prayers and help...i will continue to pray just as i have been all along and read....you hear stories of miraculous coversions everyday, maybe I can have my 2nd one :) ...


May I suggest you spend some time studying Hebrews 6:4-6.

Thanks
RC



benelchi -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 4:44:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: zion7777777

thank you all for your time and prayers and help...i will continue to pray just as i have been all along and read....you hear stories of miraculous coversions everyday, maybe I can have my 2nd one :) ...


May I suggest you spend some time studying Hebrews 6:4-6.

Thanks
RC



I have studied Hebrews 6:4-6 many times, and I think that this is a very big misuse of that scripture. I do understand the theological difficulty with Zion's statement, but I don't see having technically correct understanding of this doctrine as being a requirement for salvation. The fact that he seems to be seeking to understand salvation and has expressed a desire to have faith would indicate that it is only his understanding that is in error.

Zion, I will be praying that you will be open to God's leading, and clearly recognize his the truth of his word.



TMeeks -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/26/2008 4:54:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zion7777777

I am 32 years old and have been a Christian since the age of 14, I went to bible college and traveled the world spreading the word. I recently owned a Christian Bookstore for a few years and thats when I started searching deeper. I wanted to know why i believe what I believe and I started studying the origins of the books of the bible and why the books were chosen that are in the bible... The deeper I got, the more i found out that alot of things that evan. Christians believe are not neccesarily what the bible teaches or even conveys.. basically, as i studied to find the truth, I came to a realization and had an epiphany that the story of Jesus is just a story like Greek Mythology. Its like my eyes are so open now and i understand more than ever before... It is a little scary and I would love to believe again and i have tried, I have prayed but It just seems to be so clear to me that it is all fake... Now I am to the point that I even question the exsistance of a God... Its easy to tell me to just have faith or pray and He will help me but trust me, Either My eyes have really been open and I can see the truth or Satan has really pulled a fast one on me and I don't see how this can change... My studying and coming to this conclusion is a lot deeper than what i have written but obviously i can't put it all on here... I have spoken to a couple of people and a pastor about this and suprisingly, they all tell me that they cant answer my questions and they too have delt with some of these issues and just have faith......THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, That to me is the easy answer... Please help.......

Having looked over some of the materials that were the source of the video, I am astonished by the circular reasoning and out of context quotations that this poor soul has concocted as 'proof' that the resurrection of Jesus is fake.

They completely ignore the fact that those who claimed to have seen Jesus DIED for that claim without ever recanting. Let me repeat that for you. Those who saw Jesus after the resurrection DIED still insisting that they HAD, in fact, seen him and they died AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THAT CLAIM.

Moreover, those who where converted by these same Apostles went on to experience horrible deaths because they, too, believed the Apostles had actually seen Jesus Christ and they refused to deny that reesurrection. We are talking about a LOT of people in far flung places that ALL refused to recant and went to prison or death because of that faith.

People don't let themselves be thrown to lions for a myth.

Futhermore, the books claiming that Jesus had risen were written and distributed while most of those that had witnessed the death of Jesus were still alive... both friend and foe. And, if you think his foes didn't try to find his body, then think again. The first converts came right out of the synagogs and you can bet that the priests in those synagogs did everything in their power to prove the claim that Jesus rose was false.

Then, too, there are those Old Testament predictions that could not be faked by a child... like his family's having to flee into egypt and having been from Bethlehem.

I have read the Quoran, which was written by one person. And, it doesn't have nearly the fluidity of the Old Testament through the New Testament that was written by MANY people; but, one God. From Genesis to Revelation the story flows with consistency that cannot be matched.

The problem with the person that led you astray is that their world is too small and simple. They completely fail to comprehend the size, scope and complexity of the sum total of God's creation. We are SO ignorant that it became BIG news when they learned that our brain switches off when we blink so that we have an uninterrupted view of the world. And, that is but the tiniest little non-descript fact in a brain as complex as the universe itself. Complexity alone argues for a great and mighty God unless one's ego is too large and one's mind is too small to comprehend the magnitude of it.



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