RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (Full Version)

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StephK -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/27/2008 1:47:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisLamb26

quote:

Here's a link to a christian apologetics site that may help with the confusion.


If Zion has been to bible school, I'm sure he has been trained in apologetics.


Not necessarily. It would depend on the school and/or the denomination, the course of study and other things. I went to a Christian college and did not take any apologetics courses. It was not required for my major. I did have to take a couple survey courses in Old and New Testament though. In fact the Old Testament course I took was taught by a very liberal "theologian" who taught that fall of the walls of Jericho was only a social revolt. He taught many other similar fallacies.



oldmethuselah -> Myth-taken Identity! (3/27/2008 1:59:19 PM)

Zion,

I see you have done some searching and it has included references, at least to some more contemporary apologists.

Now, though famous as an apologist, I am not going to mention C.S. Lewis' name for that purpose at all.

RATHER, it is his other works (for which he is quite well known)...

that is to say, he has had quite a bit to say about Greek myths etc. and how they relate to the Christian story.

Because I am a bit of a C.S. Lewis nut (hence the picture of the Narnian lamp) I read many of his books, treatises, addresses to university students and personal fictions (not necessarily to do with the Christian faith per se)... in many of them I saw these references to mythology, but of course, that was not my main reason for reading them at the time, so I cannot remember specific books (perhaps some of these other readers can)

Since your central discomfort at the moment seems to be with the "epiphany", you might try looking through some of these musings...

Because of my interest in logic, both professionally and otherwise, I was reading and admiring his structure and thought - but, I don't think, it is the pure logic of Christianity that you are struggling with right now, is it?



hanna_house -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/27/2008 2:10:33 PM)

If you are serious about finding answers, explore these websites and I think you will get all the answers you need!

http://toptenproofs.com

http://christiananswers.net



BuckleysMom -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/27/2008 2:16:26 PM)

Zion.....This is why we have to be so careful about what we read, watch, listen to, etc. Satan makes it sound so good and so reasonable, but nothing he says is honest, nothing.

It sounds like maybe you need to stop looking at other "stuff" and just get into the Bible. Read and study it and ONLY it for a while. I'm sure your answers are there and God will reveal them to you if you trust Him and ask. He doesn't want to lose you and if you just ask Him with a truthful and honest heart He will show you what you need to see. Please don't go on believeing Satans lies. Use scripture on him, he knows what the Bible says and he hates it when we use it on him. I learned something in a Bible study a while back that I should have known but I had never really thought about it......Satan can't read our thoughts......only Christ can do that. So tell him.......out loud......to get lost, and mean it. If you let him get away with it he will work on you till you lose everything. Please don't give in to him. I'll be praying for you.



Jhud -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/27/2008 2:18:02 PM)

Personally I consider professor of philosophy Dr. William Lane Craig to be the most articulate, well reasoned apologists alive today. I feel very blessed that I live in a time where such men strive for the truth.

His website is here.

One warning, you will have to put on your thinking caps on before reading through his articles; it's really not for the casual reader.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/27/2008 6:32:20 PM)

quote:

Original: RedcoatMello

when the same thing happened to me I lost my faith as well and it has not returned. It took six months for me to be at peace with being an ex-Christian, but finally the hurt, anger and confusion died in me.


Redcoat, I wanted to come back and respond to your post. You remain on my heart. First, I'm so sorry that you feel you have lost your faith. What a painful, scarly place to be! Can you look back and see what was going on at that time that caused you to loose faith? I can understand blocking out the "hurt, anger and confusion" by kind of going numb so you feel at peace.

But your not really at peace. You say yourself that it's hard to live a lie. And I bet it is. The only way you will truely find real peace is to return back to the Lord. To dive into His word, to talk with other believers, to talk with Him an ask Him to renew your faith. You know He has open arms just waiting for you to return to them. Thats the only place that you will find true peace.

I encourage you to talk with your family, (your pretending doen't help them), and maybe them can help too. I'm sure they would want to thy and help. I know I would.

I'll continue to pray, and you continue to search. I truely believe you are.

God Bless



JimboFletch -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/28/2008 8:11:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: zion7777777

Rcjames, if you r trying to help, i would humbly ask you to stop, I know your response will be, its not me you are offended with, its the word of God... When i am reaching out in tourmoil, just as your first comment to me, you seem to be insensitive and arogant........


My point in case you missed it is that a person who is a Christian for nearly 20 years (serving God, believeing the the Scripture are the very Word of God and there is no error in them, accecpting of the forgiveness for all sins, being ministered to by the Holy Ghost) you know a standard run of the mill Christian; cannot have their faith shipwrecked and bankrupt by watching a movie or reading a book. Just cannot happen.

So I suggest that a person that a movie or a book can pull away from God was never his to begin with. That person was something, but was not a Child of God. And that that person was soon going to run into this passage;

(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So praise God that maybe, just maybe you can now come to the knowledge of the truth before it is too late.

Thanks
RC

RC and I do not always agree on some matters, but I have to agree 100% with him on this. There are several analogies in the NT of people returning to the world, none of them are flattering and each question more than a surface change in the individual, sort of like someone joining a club instead of being adopted into a Family.

IOW, the turmoil can be very fundamental rather than exposure to anti-Christian literature.

As in my first post, it'd be foolish of you to take anything I write about your wife seriously since I do not know her and have never spent time around her. You KNOW her from years of firsthand experience. And if you KNOW Jesus from decades of a close relationship with Him, no literature by those who don't know Him should sway you.







[Edited to add last sentence]



Cephyr13 -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/28/2008 9:35:33 AM)

Here are some better YouTube videos to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwofkDlunR0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2RD4vTuPN0&feature=related

The second video says you're stubborn and don't want to believe at the end, but don't pay attention to that.

Aside from those YouTube videos, when I've doubted if I'm saved, or doubted if God is real, I simply start drawing on the incredible resource of my mind in which I have stored TONS of proofs of God's existence. Any Christian should have some or a lot of these proofs in their head...

For instance, I learned a while back that philosophically, there must be an eternal source as the beginning of all things. Otherwise, nothing would exist. I learned that evolution and big bang theory are completely and easily disproveable on many levels, which means that there is another explanation. I found that explanation to be extremely scientific, and point to God, and the theory made far more sense and was far more proveable than evolution and big bang theory.

I look back at my own personal experiences, like when I was born again or healed of a certain sickness. When I was born again, it didn't happen because I asked for it. It happened because I was bored to tears and decided that trying to figure out some Bible verse someone pointed out to my mother was more fun that what I was doing. LOL I read this insignificant verse, and asked who the saints were, and was told the saints were us. Nothing was profound about that statement. But suddenly, I was saved. It had taken hours to go to sleep at night for the past few years. My mind wouldn't shut down. I wasn't thinking guilty thoughts or anything like that, but guilt was stressing me out and causing problems. I was sleep deprived too, and becoming depressed for the first time in my life at age 16. But in that split second, it all dropped off of me and I felt freedom for the first time in my life. Freedom, and happiness, and love flowed through my body, and for the first time in my life it was like someone had turned on the lightswitch and I saw the world for what it really was. I saw right and wrong in black and white, not grey... I understood things no 16 year old should understand without a lot of teaching (which I had not had). They were just suddenly apparent to me. My grades went up in school immediately and I started taking higher level courses. Life was awesome and that emotional response of happiness from the spiritual cleanliness that happened as Jesus saved me and washed me clean lasted for a couple years until I got back into sins, which built a wall (hardened my heart a little towards God) and caused me to lose that joy I had.

That one experience of being saved and having no explanation for how that all happened except God is one of my anchors. Later, I learned about creation science and the model of the earth which was created 6,000 years ago. That gave me tons of ammo for proving how God's perfect earth actually existed scientifically and makes far more sense than evolution and big bang. It also taught me how to easily disprove those theories.

I learned about prophecy for a long time, but didn't have anything that proved God until about a year ago, and wow was that enlightening. It added new depth to the Bible I didn't previously see. It told a bigger picture that was at play and made even more sense in the grand scheme of things. The prophecy literally proved God and that was big... No atheist has been able to refute it yet.

Finally, I learned about Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) and how those people can prove the existence of the spiritual world and of angels, demons and Jesus. Wow, was that ever enlightening. I read a book about it that proved it conclusively, then I sought out to help multiples and to prove or disprove the book. That was about 9 months ago, I suppose. Since then, I have helped quite a few multiples, and in only 6 months, I've managed to help a multiple with 63 alters integrate most of them together so that she's only got 23 atler personalities now. In only one more month, she'll be a single minded person living a normal life. In the next post, I'll tell you about MPD and how it proves the spiritual world (heaven) and Jesus, angels and demons.



Cephyr13 -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/28/2008 9:55:37 AM)

People with Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) do not have a mental problem. They are not insane. They do usually have Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) which means they cut themselves and think very badly of themselves. This comes from abuse. MPD starts before the age of 4, usually, due to someone abusing the person physically, emotionally, sexually or Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA). The girl I'm helping now has had all of those types of abuse for 23 years. She's 25 years old and still in the abuse to this day. You just cannot imagine what was done to her and I'm not going to share it.

She split at age 2, and split many, many times after that. Here's how this works.

We have a mind, body and spirit (more accurately, we have a soul, body and spirit according to 1 Thess 5:23). The soul is the mind, will and emotions. Your physical body is in the physical world, your spiritual body is in the spiritual world. And your mind is the link between the two. When a child is abused in the physical world, they cannot escape it, so Jesus built in a mechanism of escape into the spiritual world, because He said He would never give us more than we could handle. So, since the mind controls the breathing and other involuntary functions, it must be present to some degree for survival, or the body dies.

The part of the mind that splits stays in the body, and the core (original person) goes inside, but not fully him/herself anymore. They've lost that other part of their mind which is now functioning separately from them. That person had different memories of when they're out in the body, and the core person does not have those memories. The core goes inside and hides. Where they go is the key to proving the spiritual world.

Some multiples around the world have never heard of Jesus, angels, demons or a spirit world. Yet, ALL multiples see angels, demons, Jesus, false Jesuses and the water of life inside this spiritual world they go to when they split or are not out in the body. Some have not found those things yet, but without prompting them to see those things, they will see them in the system eventually, regardless of if they've ever heard of them before. They call angels shining ones, demons dark ones, and Jesus the shining man with hurt hands if they do not know what these things are.

Their spiritual space or world looks just like this world, with mountains and valleys and rivers and streams, but without any industrialization or buildings or roads. Just maybe a house or castle for them to live in. If a person is abused multiple times, they will have multiple alters. Maybe 10, maybe 100, maybe 500. Those alters all live together inside this spiritual world. Satanists know about it and purposely cause children to split, and then do horrible things to them over a period of many years that really messes them up. They use them for unspeakable sex acts and other horrible things.

Here's another way I prove God and the spiritual world. I can pray something in my head, without saying a word, and the multiple will see it happen in their world, and then tell me it just happened. For instance, I can pray for it to rain or for Jesus to send His light into the system seven times brighter than day, and the multiple will see it happen and tell me it happened, yet they never knew I prayed for that to happen so nothing was suggested for them to see. I have thousands of hours of chat logs where things like this happen quite a bit with no explanation except Jesus is answering prayers. Read this book to learn about this:

The Shining Man with Hurt Hands by Ellis H. Skolfield
www.fishhouseministries.com/pdf/ShiningMan.pdf

For the prophecy, read this book:

The False Prophet by Ellis H. Skolfield
www.ellisskolfield.com (click on Books & Essays and then The False Prophet Ch 1-9)

I guarantee if you read both of those books, you will not be able to deny that there is a God. Both prove His existence 100%.

I'll send you an email with this information in it too.



HisLamb26 -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/28/2008 10:11:47 AM)

quote:

Not necessarily. It would depend on the school and/or the denomination, the course of study and other things. I went to a Christian college and did not take any apologetics courses. It was not required for my major. I did have to take a couple survey courses in Old and New Testament though. In fact the Old Testament course I took was taught by a very liberal "theologian" who taught that fall of the walls of Jericho was only a social revolt. He taught many other similar fallacies.


Hi Steph,
I wasn't aware of that. (I am well aware of liberal professors, and have no problem with that-no matter where you stand on the liberal-conservative perspective, it's not a bad thing to be exposed to how people you disagree with think.) Though where Zion stated he had been to Bible College, I just assumed that any decent Divinity School would REQUIRE courses in Apologetics. And while I understand someone not specifically studying for ministry at a Christian college may not be exposed to Apologetics, I would think it would also be a requirement for any course of study at a Christian School.



caoimhin -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/28/2008 10:55:15 AM)

Zion,

I haven't read much of this thread, so sorry if I'm being redundant... [&:]

What you are talking about is the problem of epistemology: the study of how we know what we know. It is neglected a lot, both by Christians and non-Christians. And it sounds like your new "Jesus is myth" theory is just as much a leap of faith as "Jesus is Lord" ever was [;)] Sure, it might seem to explain a few things, but there are things it doesn't explain, like how the apostles gave their lives rather than stop telling people about the Resurrection of Christ, which is something they said they saw with their own eyes. IMO no attempt to explain this away is credible. As a complete world view, I haven't found anything that explains reality as it really is nearly as well as orthodox Christianity founded on the Bible and articulated in the early Creeds. I say this after rejecting it as a teenager then coming back and spending the following 20 years critically examining things. There are indeed answers if you are willing to look and keep an open mind. Faith doesn't have to be blind faith.

Since you're not averse to reading, I would recommend Volume 1 of Norm Geisler's Systematic Theology. I say this because it 1 deals with epistemology and the Bible and is possibly the best 20 bucks you'll ever spend.



Kat_D -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/28/2008 10:57:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cephyr13
Finally, I learned about Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD) and how those people can prove the existence of the spiritual world and of angels, demons and Jesus. Wow, was that ever enlightening. I read a book about it that proved it conclusively, then I sought out to help multiples and to prove or disprove the book. That was about 9 months ago, I suppose. Since then, I have helped quite a few multiples, and in only 6 months, I've managed to help a multiple with 63 alters integrate most of them together so that she's only got 23 atler personalities now. In only one more month, she'll be a single minded person living a normal life. In the next post, I'll tell you about MPD and how it proves the spiritual world (heaven) and Jesus, angels and demons.

[sm=aside.gif]

What, in the name of all that's holy, are you talking about, Sparky?



smiths4jesus -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/28/2008 3:27:09 PM)

Try looking here.....

http://www.probe.org/



csl7037 -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/28/2008 10:52:28 PM)

I'm going to have to go back and read over all these posts more carefully when it's not so late. But I have to chime in to say that I understand completely where Jeff is (and maybe RedcoatMello). I have struggled with exactly this for probably a year, maybe more. It's terrifying and confusing. I've been angry at God and I've spent many nights crying out. I've only in the last few days start to ponder the question of what exactly is it that I don't believe. My undergrad degree is in medieval and ancient history - I know how history and historionics works, I know the evidence on a truth-fact level with and without the influence of different agendas. I think I probably learned more concrete to support the truth of the Bible in secular history courses and writings that in decades of church. So maybe we're doubting different things - or maybe we're just not looking at it from the right angle.

There have been passages of scripture that (bear with me) I've come to believe are just plain not true. That has tormented and terrified me! I'm gradually coming to realize that it's not the Bible that I'm struggling with, it's what I've been taught about the Bible. There are things that are so deeply engrained in me that they are practically intertwined with the very foundations of my belief. But I'm really starting to question these things on a new level - I'm finding that it's my concept of some of these things that is just plain wrong.

As a disclaimer, I have to say that I'm talking about some very fundamental, almost universally held tenets of fundamental evangelicalism - not weird culty or denoination issues. I was raised in Charasmatic churces - some WOF stuff made it into my upbringing but I think I waded through most of that stuff years ago. I've spent most of my adult life in Baptist or pseudo-Baptist/non-denominational/borderline-Charasmatic circles. I'm starting to realize, though, that some of what I considered foundational may just be flat out wrong and may have led me to this point of intense frustration.

I am not now questioning my "faith" per se - although I've had moments over the last several months when I would've put myself in RedCoatMellos' boat - ready to just walk away. I tried that; I don't think it's truly possible for a real Christian. I'm NOT questioning RedCoatMello's once/current salvation, just his evaluation or depiction of where he really is right now. (I hope that makes sense.) I questioning right now everything I've ever been taught. It's still a pretty scarey place but not nearly as hopeless a place as I was in before.



jfaye -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (3/28/2008 11:47:55 PM)

!
quote:

I questioning right now everything I've ever been taught. It's still a pretty scarey place but not nearly as hopeless a place as I was in before.


csl7037--I have to tell you, that I came to a point in my life where I had to determine, if what I believed was
because it was true, or was it because I was told it was true. My parents had always told me I was so gullible
that I believed anything I was told, so I somewhat questioned my intellect at times because of their evaluation
of me! And, admittedly, when I was very young, that is very likely true, that I was very naive and gullible.

But, when I was 34 years old, I decided to find out if what I had been taught was truly 'true'! I purchased an
Abbington Strong Exhaustive Concordance 1979 (older is better than those put out today) and I systematically
checked out what I read through in my Bible. When I came to a word that I thought I understood but wanted
to verify my understanding, then I'd go back to the Hebrew or Greek definitions. I was very glad to see, that
how I was raised was correct but what I did benefit from was the more indepth possibilites of the words in their
original intention! It opened up a depth and a 'richness' of definition and understanding by doing that!

One of my favorite words I researched, (which isn't necessarily doctinally significant--just neat) is the word
'hope' as in the verse that tells us to "always be ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within us..."!
'Hope' in this instance means 'confident expectation'! That is not a wishy washy thing! It is absolute, full of
promise that is well-founded! I just love that! We can count on what lies ahead for us, because of what God
has promised us through Christ Jesus!

I suggest you might benefit from doing the same type of research, to be clear about what you believe or what
you should believe.

I agree, it would seem almost nigh impossible to walk away from believing God through Jesus, having once
ever experienced Him a deeply close, and intimate relationship for a period of time. But, then not being in
the position some of you have found yourselves, I count myself most fortunate and greatly blessed. I do not
believe that the Lord has a problem with doubtings. He has told us that there is so much we will not be able
to understand and comprehend about Him! We do not think as He thinks, and what we do know or understand
is only what He allows us to!

I pray you all find Him very believable and very trustworthy as He has shown Himself to me and so many, many,
many others. What I found, is that I may not have an answer for everything I'm asked in regard to God and
why He allows or does this and that, but I do accept my limitations to comprehend the mind of Almighty God,
and when I find myself in one of those moments where many have their minds in turmoil over the unexplainable,
I just acknowledge that I am limited, and my finite brain can't hope to comprehend an infinite Creator but what I
do know of God, makes me know that He is good and right in all His ways, and that is enough for me, right now!



uronlyasoldasufeel -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/1/2008 6:03:29 PM)

what exactly don't you believe in anymore? Christ, God? Did someone hurt you? what is it that has gone from your life. I do not want to tell you what to do, i just want to pray for you. Please let me know. I sincerely want to help. I, like God want none to perish...let me know what i can do.



SD456 -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/1/2008 9:44:54 PM)

Hi Zion,
You are in a 'crisis of faith'. It's happened to multitudes of christians over the past 2000 years. No one is 'holy' enough or close enough to Jesus to be guaranteed to not suffer through such a crisis. Even Mother Teresa had a crisis of faith.

You haven't lost your faith, you're just not feeling it at the moment. The fact that you were happy 'back then' and are unhappy now, speaks loud and clear that your spirit knows the difference.

I encourage you to rest, quit struggling to make yourself believe. Keep up some simple bible reading as you are able, and keep asking God to walk you through this and bring you to the other side. He's your papa and you're His boy and He won't let you go. Share this with your wife and family so they can pray for you and keep talking to God even when you don't feel anyone there listening. He is.

I have 2 very dear, close friends who went through this exact same thing, both spirt-filled christians who loved Jesus very much before it happened. For one, it lasted about 6 months, for the other it lasted about 2 years. But they've been following Jesus strong again for 10 years now.



bry180 -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/1/2008 10:03:16 PM)

We are blessed for believing and not seeing. My prayers are for you and God will meet you as you seek Him. In the end, Christianity and your relationship with God is through faith....



SteveDB -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/5/2008 11:04:34 PM)

Zion,
What is it that you don't believe anymore?

Please know that God is not afraid of your questions--
Isaiah 1:12-18, 30:15, etc....

I became a believer when I was 17.

I grew up in the methodist church, and didn't believe any of it until God, and I had a sit down.

It sounds to me like you may have attempted to bypass making your faith personal, beyond everyone else's experience.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but everyone of those who come to christ must do so for their own reasons. Not because the faith they had worked once upon a time.

Throughout my latter 20's-- mid 1980's-- up until the past 3 years, I had to completely question everything I believed about who God is, and what his word-- the bible-- meant to me.
Life has a way of challenging who we are, and why we believe, as well as what we believe.
Sadly, this is an ongoing thing in my life anyways, and I honestly think for most, if not the lives of everyone who comes to faith.
I strongly encourage you to talk to God. Pour out your heart-- in complete honesty-- to God. He will listen, and answer.



Carjadiane -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/16/2008 10:45:43 AM)



Zion,

I have read through a significant majority of the posted responses to your cry for help.... many things spring to mind. However, it is not from my mind I will respond - as I will say what is in my mind to say, rather than what I believe is in my spirit.

I do not trivialise this when I say I was amused by the mix of replies on this thread... it really shows the different ways in which this situation is viewed, how serious we take it, and our understanding of its impact on you. It also reveals something of the spiritual maturity of those who have responded, and their intentions.

I am not here to grade the posts. The previous paragraph just expresses what I felt as I read the posted replies.

However, there is one reply which caught my attention, as it correctly addressed this issue straight on with its simplicity - and personally, I believe because it dealt with the key issue which is the act of will - it got straight to the heart of the matter.

You see, born-again Christians made a choice to be so, and they can say so because they choose to believe. Irrespective of what life presents to them, they know that the key to overcoming (anything) as a believer is in the decisions we make when we believe in the Word which is an act of will. As Christians it is not so much what we feel, what we hear, or even what we see.... but what we to believe.

The Lord through his servant Paul, who himself was a mature christian, instructed the way-ward Corinthians (1 Corinthians 2:5 ) That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. God's Word is power, and has power over ALL things - this includes sin, of which unbelief falls into. What you must remember is that the devil has an objective where you are concerned which is in opposition to what God through Jesus has for you (John 10:10). Whether you are aware of this or not the enemy has succeeded in his quest to kill your belief, steal your faith and destroy your life and future unless you CHOOSE to act on the truth of God. You will or you are causing needless harm to yourself and placing your precious salvation in the balances of books written about the bible, by sowing your time in books about the bible, rather than sowing your time in the bible.

Reading your post, some may question if you really has a personal encounter with the risen Lord, or the if the gospel ever took root in your heart. Others may conclude that with your search to validate the bible you have opened up a door into your life for the enemy to wage war with the thoughts in your mind. All are valid. Only God knows what is going on within - and that is comforting, as He knows what is really going inside you, and He can (if you choose to let Him) correct it.

The knowledge you have gained while researching these books have caused your belief in Christ to become compromised. These are arguements and pretentions that have taken a more prominent place in you than the truth of God's Word. Again, the Word of the Lord gives clear instructions to us on how to deal with any argument that tries to ursurp the authority of the His Word. You must hold this knowledge captive and bring it in obedience to Christ (2 Cor 10:5-6). Don't be so quick to allow your spirit to lap up writings that sounds good or presents a good debate but are effect spiritually deficient, and cause you harm.

You say you don't believe! What is it that you don't believe?

The basis of our faith is that God loved his creation to the extent that He sent his only Son, Who's name is Jesus, to die for the sins of mankind (past present and future) in a horrific way so that through Him the world might me saved, and spared eternal separation from God. God showed His complete committment by fufilling our hope and raising Christ up from the dead three days following His death on the cross. As a result of this Colossians 2:15 confirms that Christ defeated and disarmed the powers of the Kingdom of Darkness and secured a spiritual victory for all believers.

Make a choice to believe in Christ, and you will believe. I would advise you to pay little attention to relying on your feelings, as they are unreliable because they are fickle. I am not sure where you are in this dilema as it was raised a couple of months ago, but I would tell you to bring to a screaching halt your seeking God out in other places but in His word so that you can grow your faith by hearing the Word of God as you read it, listening to it, meditate on it.

A believer's strength comes from Joy, which is from God. The enemy is out to/or has stolen your joy - the choice is yours if you let him keep what is yours.

Be sensisible, for much of what happens in your life is down to you. The scriptures are there so we can experience our best life with Gods blessing, as God has good plans for us. Do not risk the Lord giving you over to a reprobabte mind (Romans 1:28). Do not allow the enemy to make your life meaningless by feeding you lies - HE DOES NOT CARE ANYTHING ABOUT YOU.

GOD CARES, and you can make it through this valley. This is the winning side - stay on it.

Carjadiane



URForgiven -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/16/2008 11:32:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zion7777777

I am 32 years old and have been a Christian since the age of 14, I went to bible college and traveled the world spreading the word. I recently owned a Christian Bookstore for a few years and thats when I started searching deeper. I wanted to know why i believe what I believe and I started studying the origins of the books of the bible and why the books were chosen that are in the bible... The deeper I got, the more i found out that alot of things that evan. Christians believe are not neccesarily what the bible teaches or even conveys.. basically, as i studied to find the truth, I came to a realization and had an epiphany that the story of Jesus is just a story like Greek Mythology. Its like my eyes are so open now and i understand more than ever before... It is a little scary and I would love to believe again and i have tried, I have prayed but It just seems to be so clear to me that it is all fake... Now I am to the point that I even question the exsistance of a God... Its easy to tell me to just have faith or pray and He will help me but trust me, Either My eyes have really been open and I can see the truth or Satan has really pulled a fast one on me and I don't see how this can change... My studying and coming to this conclusion is a lot deeper than what i have written but obviously i can't put it all on here... I have spoken to a couple of people and a pastor about this and suprisingly, they all tell me that they cant answer my questions and they too have delt with some of these issues and just have faith......THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, That to me is the easy answer... Please help.......


There is nothing wrong with questioning what you believe. In fact, it is healthy. What you believe is being challenged, that does not mean God has forsaken you. As a Child of God, He will bring you through this, and you will be stronger for it. If you believe in Jesus, He will keep you.

As to the validity of the Bible, yes there are many myths that parallel what we see in the Bible, and many use this as a way of discrediting the Bible. I see it the other way around. I see these myths as that part of people that is always being drawn to their Creator, being expressed in ways that resemble the truth. The reality of which was finally revealed by God through His written Word. If that makes any sense.

Ultimately, it comes down to your perception, your image of God. Is the God Who created all that is, capable of providing and sustaining His written Word? If He is, do you suppose that He would allow it to contain error, thereby fooling those He says He loves? God is big...very, very big.

If you are in Him and continue in your studies, I have no doubt that God will reveal the truth to you about His Word. God loves you.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/22/2008 5:16:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zion7777777

JFaye, thank you for your kind words, I am bothered by this because i was happier when i truely believed, I am married to a great christian woman and her father is a pastor,,, I have been pretending to believe for the last 4 months and this troubles me... I am not in fear of hell or even being wrong because of this transformation that has taken place...

And i use to use the same answers to people i have counseled with over their disbelief... So i do understand that no one here can truely know what I am dealing with.....



Zion

I don't know if you have talked to your wife about this yet, but I would if I were you. I would also talk to your father in law. They know you, and what you have been through. They will also be the ones that will there for you and comfort you. I have read the Case for Christ, and from all the evidence offered, my faith was made that much stronger. You need to realize that you opened the door for your unbelief by watching that video. I understand at first it made you angry, which is the same reason I read the Case for Christ. Some things people say about Christians and our faith anger me also. We need to be informed, but sometimes we will allow doubt to creep in by the poison that is out there. It seems like you have a solid background, and I would have faith that the Lord will pull the wool from over your eyes. This may be a very hard test for you, I don't envy the position you are in. But in his time, when he knows you are ready, he will heal your broken spirit. Until then stay strong, and don't turn from him. Stay open to his gracious love.



h_seaton -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/27/2008 12:10:07 AM)

I just wrote a blog on this topic not too long ago. I will re-post it here.


All too often I hear people saying they don't believe God exists or that they are unsure about it. It's a fair concern... it is hard to believe in something you can't see or touch. This is my attempt to show you that God is real. Please keep reading. The most damage it will do is waste 5 minutes of your time... or maybe 10 if you read slower.

In the early years of school, most of us were taught in our science classes that the universe was created by a big bang. That there was a spec, or a dot, of something that exploded and created the stars and the planets, and gases and water, etc. From this, life supposedly formed. Personally, I think that the Big Bang theory should not be in science books, because it can not be tested, or proven... which is a vital part to the scientific method... which means it is not truly science. However, we have all accepted that as truth (including me), no questions asked. Let me ask this, when is the last time you saw a spec of dust explode into a universe? Or how about, when was the last time you saw life of any kind, sprout from anything non-living? We have never seen this happen. Scientist have tried for years to create life, and one after the other has failed.

I think we are way too complex to have just happened by chance. Did it just so happen that our planet is the perfect distance from the sun... five degrees further and we'd be frozen, 5 degrees closer and we'd be burned. Did the way our bodies process food, and the way all of our organs work together so perfectly, just happen by chance? Is the way that males are made perfectly for females (in all species) just a matter of chance? And why do we so faithfully and blindly believe we magically came from non-life, but we refuse to believe that we were created by a God?

Now, I'm borrowing this idea from a video I saw, but it works perfectly here. If you see a building, you do not believe that the building just magically appeared there because a spec of dust exploded and created it. No, you know there had to be a builder. If you see a painting, you know there had to be a painter. So why is it that when you see a human being, much more complex than a building or a painting, you think we happened by chance and not that there was a Creator?

And what about morals? I have to admit, I struggle inside when people who don't believe in God say to me, for example, that it would be wrong to steal, or to lie, or to cheat on your spouse, or that it would be right to tell the truth about a matter, etc. Who says? If there is no God to answer to, then why not kill that man and take his money? If we truly are just unimportant parasites that walk this earth with no purpose, then the fewer of us the better... so why not do what we want?

It's a touchy subject, but I have a few points to make about death as well. If there is no God, than there is no spirituality. We are useless organisms that live and die, the end. Then why is it when someone dies, we say they are still with us, or they are watching over us? If there isn't a God, then how could that be? Another thing that gets to me is when people say "her death was just meant to happen". OK, if there is no Creator, then who meant for it to happen? Who decided that it was her time? You can't say you don't believe there is a God, and then choose to believe that your loved one was meant to pass away and is now watching over you, because it makes you feel better.

In summary:
Life is too complex, and filled to the max with way too many "just-so-happen's" for it to all be by chance. We've never seen life emerge from something that is non-living, so why do we believe that so faithfully, and say that those people who believe in God are ignorant? If there was no God there would be no right and wrong because it would go against nature; right and wrong was created by God (it's in the Bible). Concerning loved ones who have passed away... you can't not believe in God and then say your loved one is still with you watching over you; that would be a contradiction. (Also, the Bible says in Luke 16:25 that the dead can not have contact with the living... so no ghosts are with us. It does warn of demons making themselves appear to be a loved one to deceive you, but that's a whole other topic.)



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/27/2008 11:52:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: h_seaton

I just wrote a blog on this topic not too long ago. I will re-post it here.


All too often I hear people saying they don't believe God exists or that they are unsure about it. It's a fair concern... it is hard to believe in something you can't see or touch. This is my attempt to show you that God is real. Please keep reading. The most damage it will do is waste 5 minutes of your time... or maybe 10 if you read slower.

In the early years of school, most of us were taught in our science classes that the universe was created by a big bang. That there was a spec, or a dot, of something that exploded and created the stars and the planets, and gases and water, etc. From this, life supposedly formed. Personally, I think that the Big Bang theory should not be in science books, because it can not be tested, or proven... which is a vital part to the scientific method... which means it is not truly science. However, we have all accepted that as truth (including me), no questions asked. Let me ask this, when is the last time you saw a spec of dust explode into a universe? Or how about, when was the last time you saw life of any kind, sprout from anything non-living? We have never seen this happen. Scientist have tried for years to create life, and one after the other has failed.

I think we are way too complex to have just happened by chance. Did it just so happen that our planet is the perfect distance from the sun... five degrees further and we'd be frozen, 5 degrees closer and we'd be burned. Did the way our bodies process food, and the way all of our organs work together so perfectly, just happen by chance? Is the way that males are made perfectly for females (in all species) just a matter of chance? And why do we so faithfully and blindly believe we magically came from non-life, but we refuse to believe that we were created by a God?

Now, I'm borrowing this idea from a video I saw, but it works perfectly here. If you see a building, you do not believe that the building just magically appeared there because a spec of dust exploded and created it. No, you know there had to be a builder. If you see a painting, you know there had to be a painter. So why is it that when you see a human being, much more complex than a building or a painting, you think we happened by chance and not that there was a Creator?

And what about morals? I have to admit, I struggle inside when people who don't believe in God say to me, for example, that it would be wrong to steal, or to lie, or to cheat on your spouse, or that it would be right to tell the truth about a matter, etc. Who says? If there is no God to answer to, then why not kill that man and take his money? If we truly are just unimportant parasites that walk this earth with no purpose, then the fewer of us the better... so why not do what we want?

It's a touchy subject, but I have a few points to make about death as well. If there is no God, than there is no spirituality. We are useless organisms that live and die, the end. Then why is it when someone dies, we say they are still with us, or they are watching over us? If there isn't a God, then how could that be? Another thing that gets to me is when people say "her death was just meant to happen". OK, if there is no Creator, then who meant for it to happen? Who decided that it was her time? You can't say you don't believe there is a God, and then choose to believe that your loved one was meant to pass away and is now watching over you, because it makes you feel better.

In summary:
Life is too complex, and filled to the max with way too many "just-so-happen's" for it to all be by chance. We've never seen life emerge from something that is non-living, so why do we believe that so faithfully, and say that those people who believe in God are ignorant? If there was no God there would be no right and wrong because it would go against nature; right and wrong was created by God (it's in the Bible). Concerning loved ones who have passed away... you can't not believe in God and then say your loved one is still with you watching over you; that would be a contradiction. (Also, the Bible says in Luke 16:25 that the dead can not have contact with the living... so no ghosts are with us. It does warn of demons making themselves appear to be a loved one to deceive you, but that's a whole other topic.)

You go girl, very good points.



jmjphe -> RE: Help please...I do not believe anymore (4/29/2008 5:07:15 PM)

hi zion,

Now, im not sure what your level of involment was, i mean in regards to research, looking into scriptures etc. like you said it would be too much to post on a forum. However, there is one thing i didnt see in the posts, although i didnt read through every sinlge one, just the first several. See me personally, i ve know numerous individuals who simply say "I'm christian" I've asked why, and they would say something about being involved in church, trusting god, alot of very great sounding things. Normally they are surrounded with church related material, godly parents, sunday school, mission work etc. THe one and only thing missing is Christ from what i see. The first word in Christian of course is Christ. We as humans can try try and try againn to beleive, understand, learn, and it will always end in negative results.

The point im making is that in our lives we can be thrown into "religous" activities which become habit, not to offend anyone what so ever but ive seen and heard numerous catholic and christian cases of this happening because there actions and thoughts are powered by there upbringing and background rather than Christ. Christ says he is the way the truth and the light. I can tell you ive heard many people say they beleive in God and thats where it ends, even those who follow up with good actions and what we see as good honest lives, but in reality Christ is missing, and eventually they loose out and pretty but stop beleiving, I mean the devil himself believes in God, the Key again, is setting aside all domestication and inviting Jesus Christ into your heart to start that genuine Relationship with God, than and only than do bible studies, Church, Godly actions and thoughts etc. produce genuine results, God wont let you go, oh yes youll be tempted, youll feel despair when you see even a shred of society doubting God or the bible or Jesus, but God does give you a way, Ive been there myself a million times. Ive watched as members of the science community (only a portion, not all, arent convinced by god) try to explain how an exsistence of God is very unlikley, and it shook me hard, but it was only rattling my Mind, my spirit was strong, and as I relfected through Christ, I found that peace again. Furthermore, I found genuine answers about life's origins etc., but thats not the topic here.

My Ultimate point is that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to truley establish a firm relationship with God, we cannot do it on our own which im sorry, but thats what religion is: Man trying to earn a way to heaven or reach god, as opposed to Jesus Christ who is God reaching down to man out of pure love beyond comprehension.

I hope and pray that you understand what im saying and that you truley submit to god by giving up to Jesus Christ, let him take the wheel.



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