|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 4/29/2008 1:11:50 AM
|
|
|
Sammy_S
Posts: 558
Joined: 10/6/2007
From: Brampton,Ontario
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: pray4all
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sammy_S
It's not wrong to call one a heretic if he is.Paul did that,was he wrong?
BTW,i do not hate them at all,I hate what they preach.The wrath of God is upon them not mine.And I do not consider themselves as an enemy of mine,my enemies are Satan and my flesh I do not need more enemies.But if they do not repent of their false teachings they are enemies of God and that is far worse then a child like myself complaining about their teachings.
This is not about who is right or wrong,it's about the truth in God's word
How do you know so?Should you not leave that to God?Secondly,Just because one "believes" in Jesus Christ as his salvation does not mean that lived his life according to that "belief".
I always "believed" in Christ as my salvation but my heart was far from him and I was awaiting his wrath had he not saved me.
it is not wrong to call one a heretic if he is, according to what i think, sounds closer to truth to me, sammy could you ck out this site and let me know if the reformer john calvin is a heretic according to your definition of the term.
http://revpistis.wordpress.com/category/apologetics/
Forgive me but the link seems like it will take a long read and I am kinda lazy right now..so forgive me and could you please quote any part of the link you desired to prove your point with?
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 7/28/2008 12:38:35 AM
|
|
|
Sonrise
Posts: 150
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
|
I have a newfound respect for Hagin. This is courtesy of our brother from Angola:
Kenneth Hagin’s Forgotten Warning
By J. Lee Grady
Charisma Magazine
CBN.com – Charismatic Bible teacher Kenneth Hagin Sr. is considered the father of the so-called prosperity gospel. The folksy, self-trained “Dad Hagin” started a grass-roots movement in Oklahoma that produced a Bible college and a crop of famous preachers including Kenneth Copeland, Jerry Savelle, Charles Capps, Jesse DuPlantis, Creflo Dollar and dozens of others—all of whom teach that Christians who give generously should expect financial rewards on this side of heaven.
Hagin taught that God was not glorified by poverty and that preachers do not have to be poor. But before he died in 2003 and left his Rhema Bible Training Center in the hands of his son, Kenneth Hagin Jr., he summoned many of his colleagues to Tulsa to rebuke them for distorting his message. He was not happy that some of his followers were manipulating the Bible to support what he viewed as greed and selfish indulgence.
Those who were close to Hagin Sr. say he was passionate about correcting these abuses before he died. In fact, he wrote a brutally honest book to address his concerns. The Midas Touch was published in 2000, a year after the infamous Tulsa meeting.
Many Word-Faith ministers ignored the book. But in light of the recent controversy over prosperity doctrines, it might be a good idea to dust it off and read it again.
Here are a few of the points Hagin made in The Midas Touch:
1. Financial prosperity is not a sign of God’s blessing. Hagin wrote: “If wealth alone were a sign of spirituality, then drug traffickers and crime bosses would be spiritual giants. Material wealth can be connected to the blessings of God or it can be totally disconnected from the blessings of God.”
2. People should never give in order to get. Hagin was critical of those who “try to make the offering plate some kind of heavenly vending machine.” He denounced those who link giving to getting, especially those who give cars to get new cars or who give suits to get new suits. He wrote: “There is no spiritual formula to sow a Ford and reap a Mercedes.”
3. It is not biblical to “name your seed” in an offering. Hagin was horrified by this practice, which was popularized in faith conferences during the 1980s. Faith preachers sometimes tell donors that when they give in an offering they should claim a specific benefit to get a blessing in return. Hagin rejected this idea and said that focusing on what you are going to receive “corrupts the very attitude of our giving nature.”
4. The “hundredfold return” is not a biblical concept. Hagin did the math and figured out that if this bizarre notion were true, “we would have Christians walking around with not billions or trillions of dollars, but quadrillions of dollars!” He rejected the popular teaching that a believer should claim a specific monetary payback rate.
5. Preachers who claim to have a “debt-breaking” anointing should not be trusted. Hagin was perplexed by ministers who promise “supernatural debt cancellation” to those who give in certain offerings. He wrote in The Midas Touch: “There is not one bit of Scripture I know about that validates such a practice. I’m afraid it is simply a scheme to raise money for the preacher, and ultimately it can turn out to be dangerous and destructive for all involved.”
(Many evangelists who appear on Christian television today use this bogus claim. Usually they insist that the miraculous debt cancellation will occur only if a person “gives right now,” as if the anointing for this miracle suddenly evaporates after the prime time viewing hour. This manipulative claim is more akin to witchcraft than Christian belief.)
Hagin condemned other hairbrained gimmicks designed to trick audiences into emptying their wallets. He was especially incensed when a preacher told his radio listeners that he would take their prayer requests to Jesus’ empty tomb in Jerusalem and pray over them there—if donors included a special love gift. “What that radio preacher really wanted was more people to send in offerings,” Hagin wrote.
Thanks to the recent resurgence in bizarre donation schemes promoted by American charismatics, the prosperity gospel is back under the nation’s microscope. It’s time to revisit Hagin’s concerns and find a biblical balance.
Hagin told his followers: “Overemphasizing or adding to what the Bible actually teaches invariably does more harm than good.” If the man who pioneered the modern concept of biblical prosperity blew the whistle on his own movement, wouldn’t it make sense for us to listen to his admonition?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/5/2008 9:33:01 PM
|
|
|
gennaoanothen
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
I did a search and did not find an existing one for such a popular teacher. So hopefully this one is OK with the Admins/Moderators..
Considering we live in a media driven age - let's start our discussion of Hagin's teachings and practices with some video documentation:
At a service
Teachings Comparison
More to come later..
[Title edited by moderator]
do we turn to youtube?
or shall we turn to E.w.Kenyon & kenneth Hagins writtings and the word of God?
_____________________________
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth , to show Himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him. see also ps 34:15, 1 Peter 3:12, ps 33:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/5/2008 9:59:23 PM
|
|
|
gennaoanothen
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gennaoanothen
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
I did a search and did not find an existing one for such a popular teacher. So hopefully this one is OK with the Admins/Moderators..
Considering we live in a media driven age - let's start our discussion of Hagin's teachings and practices with some video documentation:
At a service
Teachings Comparison
More to come later..
[Title edited by moderator]
do we turn to youtube?
or shall we turn to E.w.Kenyon & kenneth Hagins writtings and the word of God?
perhaps earthless you could describe and define orthodox Christanity, What are the guide lines, that one would cross to be considered heresy, ie trinity, etc etc.
then perhaps I could provide you with the writtings of E. w. kenyon, or Kenneth Hagin in there context.
_____________________________
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth , to show Himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him. see also ps 34:15, 1 Peter 3:12, ps 33:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/6/2008 7:43:04 AM
|
|
|
gennaoanothen
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sonrise
I have a newfound respect for Hagin. This is courtesy of our brother from Angola:
Kenneth Hagin’s Forgotten Warning
By J. Lee Grady
Charisma Magazine
CBN.com – Charismatic Bible teacher Kenneth Hagin Sr. is considered the father of the so-called prosperity gospel. The folksy, self-trained “Dad Hagin” started a grass-roots movement in Oklahoma that produced a Bible college and a crop of famous preachers including Kenneth Copeland, Jerry Savelle, Charles Capps, Jesse DuPlantis, Creflo Dollar and dozens of others—all of whom teach that Christians who give generously should expect financial rewards on this side of heaven.
Hagin taught that God was not glorified by poverty and that preachers do not have to be poor. But before he died in 2003 and left his Rhema Bible Training Center in the hands of his son, Kenneth Hagin Jr., he summoned many of his colleagues to Tulsa to rebuke them for distorting his message. He was not happy that some of his followers were manipulating the Bible to support what he viewed as greed and selfish indulgence.
Those who were close to Hagin Sr. say he was passionate about correcting these abuses before he died. In fact, he wrote a brutally honest book to address his concerns. The Midas Touch was published in 2000, a year after the infamous Tulsa meeting.
Many Word-Faith ministers ignored the book. But in light of the recent controversy over prosperity doctrines, it might be a good idea to dust it off and read it again.
Here are a few of the points Hagin made in The Midas Touch:
1. Financial prosperity is not a sign of God’s blessing. Hagin wrote: “If wealth alone were a sign of spirituality, then drug traffickers and crime bosses would be spiritual giants. Material wealth can be connected to the blessings of God or it can be totally disconnected from the blessings of God.”
2. People should never give in order to get. Hagin was critical of those who “try to make the offering plate some kind of heavenly vending machine.” He denounced those who link giving to getting, especially those who give cars to get new cars or who give suits to get new suits. He wrote: “There is no spiritual formula to sow a Ford and reap a Mercedes.”
3. It is not biblical to “name your seed” in an offering. Hagin was horrified by this practice, which was popularized in faith conferences during the 1980s. Faith preachers sometimes tell donors that when they give in an offering they should claim a specific benefit to get a blessing in return. Hagin rejected this idea and said that focusing on what you are going to receive “corrupts the very attitude of our giving nature.”
4. The “hundredfold return” is not a biblical concept. Hagin did the math and figured out that if this bizarre notion were true, “we would have Christians walking around with not billions or trillions of dollars, but quadrillions of dollars!” He rejected the popular teaching that a believer should claim a specific monetary payback rate.
5. Preachers who claim to have a “debt-breaking” anointing should not be trusted. Hagin was perplexed by ministers who promise “supernatural debt cancellation” to those who give in certain offerings. He wrote in The Midas Touch: “There is not one bit of Scripture I know about that validates such a practice. I’m afraid it is simply a scheme to raise money for the preacher, and ultimately it can turn out to be dangerous and destructive for all involved.”
(Many evangelists who appear on Christian television today use this bogus claim. Usually they insist that the miraculous debt cancellation will occur only if a person “gives right now,” as if the anointing for this miracle suddenly evaporates after the prime time viewing hour. This manipulative claim is more akin to witchcraft than Christian belief.)
Hagin condemned other hairbrained gimmicks designed to trick audiences into emptying their wallets. He was especially incensed when a preacher told his radio listeners that he would take their prayer requests to Jesus’ empty tomb in Jerusalem and pray over them there—if donors included a special love gift. “What that radio preacher really wanted was more people to send in offerings,” Hagin wrote.
Thanks to the recent resurgence in bizarre donation schemes promoted by American charismatics, the prosperity gospel is back under the nation’s microscope. It’s time to revisit Hagin’s concerns and find a biblical balance.
Hagin told his followers: “Overemphasizing or adding to what the Bible actually teaches invariably does more harm than good.” If the man who pioneered the modern concept of biblical prosperity blew the whistle on his own movement, wouldn’t it make sense for us to listen to his admonition?
never read that book but I do intend to now. thank you for the refrence to it.
as I have read Kenyon's and Hagin's writtings, I never believed they taught the above to the extent some would today.
_____________________________
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth , to show Himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him. see also ps 34:15, 1 Peter 3:12, ps 33:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/6/2008 8:38:11 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6219
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gennaoanothen
perhaps earthless you could describe and define orthodox Christanity, What are the guide lines, that one would cross to be considered heresy, ie trinity, etc etc.
The Bible itself reveals those doctrines that are essential to the Christian faith.
They are 1) the Deity of Christ, 2) Salvation by Grace, and 3) Resurrection of Christ, and 4) the gospel.
These are the doctrines the Bible says are necessary. Though there are many other important doctrines, these four are the only ones that are declared by Scripture to be essential. A non-regenerate person, or a cultist (Mormon or Jehovah's Witness), will deny one or more of these essential doctrines. Please note that there are other derivative doctrines of scripture that become necessary also, the Trinity being one.
The Deity of Christ
1. Jesus is God in flesh (John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14). See also John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Colpssians 2:9; Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 1:8
1. 1 John 4:2-3: "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."
The above verse needs to be cross referenced with John 1:1,14 (also written by John) where he states that the Word was God and the Word became flesh.
1 John 4:2-3 is saying that if you deny that Jesus is God in flesh then you are of the spirit of Antichrist.
John 8:24, "I said, therefore, to you, that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am, you will die in your sins."
Jesus said here that if you do not believe "that I am" you will die in your sins. In Greek I am is 'ego eimi,' which means ‘I am.' These are the same words used in John 8:58 where Jesus says "...before Abraham was, I am." He was claiming the divine title by quoting Exodus 3:14 in the Greek Septuagint. (The Septuagint was the Hebrew Old Testament translated into Greek.)
Jesus is the proper object of faith
It is not simply enough to have faith. Faith is only as valid as what it is put in. You must put your faith in the proper object. Cults have false objects of faith; therefore, their faith is useless - no matter how sincere they are.
If you put your faith in a vacuum cleaner, then you will be in a lot of trouble on the day of judgment. You might have great faith, but so what? It is in something that can't save you.
The Doctrine of the deity of Christ includes:
1. The Trinity - There is one God who exists in three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are all coeternal, and of the same nature.
2. Monotheism - There is only one God in all existence (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8). Mormons believe that many gods exist though they serve and worship only one. Therefore, they are polytheists which excludes them from the camp of Christianity.
The Hypostatic Union - That Jesus is both God and man.
1. The sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ - The sacrifice of Christ is completely sufficient to pay for the sins of the world
2. As God - Jesus must be God to be able to offer a sacrifice of value greater than that of a mere man.
He had to die for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). Only God could do that.
3. As man - Jesus must be man to be able to be a sacrifice for man.
As a man He can be the mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5).
Salvation by Grace
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace" (Galatians 5:4).
This verse and its context plainly teach that if you believe that you are saved by faith and works then you are not saved at all. This is a common error in the cults. Because they have a false Jesus, they have a false doctrine of salvation. (Read Rom. 3-5 and Galatians 3-5).
You cannot add to the work of God. Galatians 2:21 says, "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin" (Romans 3:20).
"However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness" (Romans 4:5).
"Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law" (Galatians 3:21).
The Resurrection of Christ
1. "And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (1 Corinthians 15:14). "And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins" (1 Corinthians 15:17).
2. To deny the physical resurrection is to deny Jesus' work, sacrifice, and our resurrection.
3. These verses clearly state that if you say that Jesus did not rise from the dead (in the same body He died in - John 2:19-21), then your faith is useless.
The Gospel
1. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" (Galatians 1:8-9).
Verses 8 and 9 here in Galatians are a self declarative statement that you must believe the gospel. The gospel message which in its entirety is that Jesus is God in flesh, who died for sins, rose from the dead, and freely gives the gift of eternal life to those who believe.
2. Furthermore, it would not be possible to present the gospel properly without declaring that Jesus is God in flesh per John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Colossians 2:9; Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 1:8.
1 Corinthains 15:1-4 defines what the gospel is: "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures".
Within these verses are the essentials: Christ is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Colossians 2:9); Salvation is received by faith (John 1:12; Romans 10:9-10), therefore it is by grace; and the resurrection is mentioned in verse 4. Therefore, this gospel message automatically includes the essentials.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/6/2008 12:44:41 PM
|
|
|
gennaoanothen
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: gennaoanothen
perhaps earthless you could describe and define orthodox Christanity, What are the guide lines, that one would cross to be considered heresy, ie trinity, etc etc.
The Bible itself reveals those doctrines that are essential to the Christian faith.
They are 1) the Deity of Christ, 2) Salvation by Grace, and 3) Resurrection of Christ, and 4) the gospel.
These are the doctrines the Bible says are necessary. Though there are many other important doctrines, these four are the only ones that are declared by Scripture to be essential. A non-regenerate person, or a cultist (Mormon or Jehovah's Witness), will deny one or more of these essential doctrines. Please note that there are other derivative doctrines of scripture that become necessary also, the Trinity being one.
The Gospel
1. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" (Galatians 1:8-9).
Verses 8 and 9 here in Galatians are a self declarative statement that you must believe the gospel. The gospel message which in its entirety is that Jesus is God in flesh, who died for sins, rose from the dead, and freely gives the gift of eternal life to those who believe.
2. Furthermore, it would not be possible to present the gospel properly without declaring that Jesus is God in flesh per John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Colossians 2:9; Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 1:8.
1 Corinthains 15:1-4 defines what the gospel is: "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures".
Within these verses are the essentials: Christ is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Colossians 2:9); Salvation is received by faith (John 1:12; Romans 10:9-10), therefore it is by grace; and the resurrection is mentioned in verse 4. Therefore, this gospel message automatically includes the essentials.
thank you for taking the time to get back to me on this important matter.
I agree your # 1+2+3 = your point 4
Kenneth Hagin and Ew. Kenyon taught all of those points, and I can demonstrate that from the context of there writing's.
and of course the trinity doctrine, = Jesus could not be Deity, unless the trinity exists.
within Rev Kenyon's and Rev. Hagins writing's they are in agreement with you.
because they might believe that healing is for all does not make them not orthodox.
anymore than you believeing healing is not for all would make you not orthodox.
as far as heresey is concerned.
I am on lunch right now so time is a little short but I would like to start a thread to clear up some misunderstands concerning healing which we believe and confess, which has caused some predjuices within the body of Christ.
again thank you for getting back to me.
be blessed
actually I just looked at the calander for church and tonight is intercessory prayer for others, so I will be there, perhaps tomorrow I will start that thread.
_____________________________
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth , to show Himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him. see also ps 34:15, 1 Peter 3:12, ps 33:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/6/2008 2:10:15 PM
|
|
|
golfjack
Posts: 63
Joined: 10/23/2008
Status: offline
|
Genna, Have you copies of Hagins prophesies in tongues for 03, 04, 05, and 06? They are probably on his Rhema website. You will probably find them very interesting in light about the Church of the future.
Peace, Golfjack
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/6/2008 8:08:53 PM
|
|
|
prophet
Posts: 578
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: online
|
Is the teaching of verbal confessions of verses found in the Bible with the belief that if one believes the Word of God and confesses it then the believer shall receive what they confessed scriptural?
Are human beings able to speak things into being?
Is this heresy that since that God created the universe simply by speaking it into existence (Genesis 1), so humans have been endowed with the ability [power] to speak things into existence?
Is this heresy?
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/6/2008 9:24:06 PM
|
|
|
gennaoanothen
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Is the teaching of verbal confessions of verses found in the Bible with the belief that if one believes the Word of God and confesses it then the believer shall receive what they confessed scriptural?
Are human beings able to speak things into being?
Is this heresy that since that God created the universe simply by speaking it into existence (Genesis 1), so humans have been endowed with the ability [power] to speak things into existence?
Is this heresy?
no it is not heresy, it is actually what the Bible teaches.
and it would also depend upon what and how a person is speaking something into existence.
if I can find the correct words to try to get this across, I will answer your question. and I will use an illustration, I was involved in tonight.
and let me make this perfectly clear to any and all readers of my post. ALL THE GLORY GOES TO GOD. and yes I did raise my voice, somewhat, because I want that fact perfectly understood.
let me bring in some scripture verses first, God said it.
Mark 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. 25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Jesus is talking about pray here, and having faith in God, and not doubting in your heart that you will receive what you are praying for.
 the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray, Jesus taught us how to pray.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18T hey shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
tonight I went to an intercessory prayer meeting at a new church, I recently moved to the area, I was in intercessory prayer and healing ministry in a prior church. I love to pray for others, I love to pray period!
one of the fellows there had a bad disk in his back, I told him the Lord still heals, he healed me, can I pray for you for that, he said yes.
I laid hands on Him, prayed and thank the Lord for healing him, I was just being obedient Lord to your Word, quoted a few scriptures, full of faith and boldly out loud, that God would heal this man, God did heal him, He and we gave the glory to God, after the meeting the man was jogging up the steps
So this mans existence prior, was changed by God, because someone prayed, boldly, in faith, out loud, the Word of God. and again all the Glory to God.
can I go out in my driveway and pray down a shinny new Cadillac, absolutely not.
but it is Gods Will to heal, so I can pray for that, and God causes it to be.
_____________________________
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth , to show Himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him. see also ps 34:15, 1 Peter 3:12, ps 33:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/6/2008 10:06:47 PM
|
|
|
prophet
Posts: 578
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
and it would also depend upon what and how a person is speaking something into existence.
How?
quote:
let me bring in some scripture verses first, God said it.
Mark 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. 25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Jesus is talking about pray here, and having faith in God, and not doubting in your heart that you will receive what you are praying for.
Anything?  You forgot this preceeding verse
And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Which means not faith in your faith. A single verse does not make a doctrine. “And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” starts by saying have faith in God. not in your faith. This scripture is interpreted by the clear ones such as 1 Jn.5:14-15, and Jesus own prayer of thy will be done, not our will be done.
5:14
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
5:15
And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
quote:
tonight I went to an intercessory prayer meeting at a new church, I recently moved to the area, I was in intercessory prayer and healing ministry in a prior church. I love to pray for others, I love to pray period!
one of the fellows there had a bad disk in his back, I told him the Lord still heals, he healed me, can I pray for you for that, he said yes.
I laid hands on Him, prayed and thank the Lord for healing him, I was just being obedient Lord to your Word, quoted a few scriptures, full of faith and boldly out loud, that God would heal this man, God did heal him, He and we gave the glory to God, after the meeting the man was jogging up the steps
So this mans existence prior, was changed by God, because someone prayed, boldly, in faith, out loud, the Word of God. and again all the Glory to God.
Is that the methodology? Out loud? i praye in my heart and God listened......
Wonder why some word faith ministers with cancer still go for medical therapy?
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/6/2008 10:18:08 PM
|
|
|
prophet
Posts: 578
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
" Kenneth Hagin teaches, "It is unscriptural to pray, 'If it is the will of God.' When you put an 'if' in your prayer, you are praying in doubt.( K.Hagin, Exeedingly Growing Faith P.10 2nd ed.)
quote:
Kenneth Hagin in "Healing the fathers provision" pg.9 "I believe it is the plan of our father that no believer should be sick that every believer should live his life to the full time and actually wear out if Jesus tarries then fall asleep in Jesus I state boldly it is not the will of God my father that we should suffer with cancer and other dread diseases and bring pain and anguish. No . It is gods will that we should be healed.""
In my understanding, the whole of creation is mourning. i understand Gods will for redemption of this imperfect creation due to sin BUT i cannot see anyway that Gods will that we should be healed phsically NOW.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/7/2008 11:06:55 AM
|
|
|
golfjack
Posts: 63
Joined: 10/23/2008
Status: offline
|
Prophet, A good example of a positive confession is the following: In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I exercise authority over this body of mine. sickness and disease, I refuse to allow you to stay. This body, this house, belongs to God. It is a temple of God. Satan, you have no right to trespass on God's property. Now get out. Leave my body. I've got authority over you. I know it, you know it, and God knows it. I am holding fastt to what I have, and I am keeping my healing.
We can't even be saved without confessing (Rom. 10:9-10).
Peace, Golfjack
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/7/2008 11:25:44 AM
|
|
|
themoodyexperience
Posts: 523
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: golfjack
Prophet, A good example of a positive confession is the following: In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I exercise authority over this body of mine. sickness and disease, I refuse to allow you to stay. This body, this house, belongs to God. It is a temple of God. Satan, you have no right to trespass on God's property. Now get out. Leave my body. I've got authority over you. I know it, you know it, and God knows it. I am holding fastt to what I have, and I am keeping my healing.
We can't even be saved without confessing (Rom. 10:9-10).
Peace, Golfjack
I sure did hear alot of I's in there. What happens if you still get sick? Did you not have enough faith? Faith in yourself or faith in God?
_____________________________
Of course thieves hate watch-dogs, and love darkness. It is time that somebody should spring his rattle, and call attention to the way in which God is being robbed of his glory, and man of his hope.
- Charles Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/7/2008 12:00:13 PM
|
|
|
gennaoanothen
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
and it would also depend upon what and how a person is speaking something into existence.
How?
quote:
let me bring in some scripture verses first, God said it.
Mark 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. 25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Jesus is talking about pray here, and having faith in God, and not doubting in your heart that you will receive what you are praying for.
Anything? You forgot this preceeding verse
And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Which means not faith in your faith. A single verse does not make a doctrine. “And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” starts by saying have faith in God. not in your faith. This scripture is interpreted by the clear ones such as 1 Jn.5:14-15, and Jesus own prayer of thy will be done, not our will be done.
5:14
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
5:15
And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
quote:
tonight I went to an intercessory prayer meeting at a new church, I recently moved to the area, I was in intercessory prayer and healing ministry in a prior church. I love to pray for others, I love to pray period!
one of the fellows there had a bad disk in his back, I told him the Lord still heals, he healed me, can I pray for you for that, he said yes.
I laid hands on Him, prayed and thank the Lord for healing him, I was just being obedient Lord to your Word, quoted a few scriptures, full of faith and boldly out loud, that God would heal this man, God did heal him, He and we gave the glory to God, after the meeting the man was jogging up the steps
So this mans existence prior, was changed by God, because someone prayed, boldly, in faith, out loud, the Word of God. and again all the Glory to God.
Is that the methodology? Out loud? i praye in my heart and God listened......
Wonder why some word faith ministers with cancer still go for medical therapy?
thanks for responding back
yes the how, = is it in agreement with the will of God?
and I did not omit the faith in God, my faith is totally in God, and God alone, including what He has stated in His Word. which would include
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18T hey shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
I should have included with Mark, the final verse
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
so you can see my faith is in God, that he will confirm, his Word with signs following. Because Jesus is the one that has proclaimed, we shall lay hands on the sick, and in His name they shall recover.
I pray that I have been able to present that in a manner, that you would be able to understand what I am saying.
God bless
< Message edited by gennaoanothen -- 11/7/2008 12:06:56 PM >
_____________________________
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth , to show Himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him. see also ps 34:15, 1 Peter 3:12, ps 33:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/7/2008 12:19:57 PM
|
|
|
gennaoanothen
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
" Kenneth Hagin teaches, "It is unscriptural to pray, 'If it is the will of God.' When you put an 'if' in your prayer, you are praying in doubt.( K.Hagin, Exeedingly Growing Faith P.10 2nd ed.)
quote:
Kenneth Hagin in "Healing the fathers provision" pg.9 "I believe it is the plan of our father that no believer should be sick that every believer should live his life to the full time and actually wear out if Jesus tarries then fall asleep in Jesus I state boldly it is not the will of God my father that we should suffer with cancer and other dread diseases and bring pain and anguish. No . It is gods will that we should be healed.""
In my understanding, the whole of creation is mourning. i understand Gods will for redemption of this imperfect creation due to sin BUT i cannot see anyway that Gods will that we should be healed phsically NOW.
of course Kenneth Hagin stated that, Christians are susposed to know the will of God, by reading His Word. God's Will for us is in His Word to us.
_____________________________
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth , to show Himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward Him. see also ps 34:15, 1 Peter 3:12, ps 33:18
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/7/2008 12:52:01 PM
|
|
|
GodsMusic
Posts: 175
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline
|
The "drunk again" video on youtube is an embarrassment to the ministry.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/8/2008 10:53:18 AM
|
|
|
GodsMusic
Posts: 175
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gennaoanothen
quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
The "drunk again" video on youtube is an embarrassment to the ministry.
then don't watch it if you are embarrassed by it. 
An embarrassment TO the ministry.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/8/2008 11:20:50 AM
|
|
|
lw9
Posts: 1126
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
|
Acts 9:37 In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha [which, when translated, is Dorcas], who was always doing good and helping the poor. 37 About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room.
Poor simple Tabitha! Did she not know how to trust in her force of faith?
1 Tim 5:23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and frequent illnesses.
Timothy, Timothy. Why didn't you just exercise authority over your body and confess the sickness away??? It was so simple, you foolish disciple.
2 Tim 4:20 Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus.
Paul the Apostle! NOOOOOO!!! Not you, too! Did you not understand the principles of positive confession so you could heal Trophimus? Did you not have access to WOF books, tapes, and CD's?? Say it isn't so!!
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/8/2008 11:22:41 AM
|
|
|
themoodyexperience
Posts: 523
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Acts 9:37 In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha [which, when translated, is Dorcas], who was always doing good and helping the poor. 37 About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room.
Poor simple Tabitha! Did she not know how to trust in her force of faith?
1 Tim 5:23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and frequent illnesses.
Timothy, Timothy. Why didn't you just exercise authority over your body and confess the sickness away??? It was so simple, you foolish disciple.
2 Tim 4:20 Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus.
Paul the Apostle! Not you, too! Did you not understand the principles of positive confession so you could heal Trophimus? Did you not have access to WOF books, tapes, and CD's?? Say it isn't so!!
Are you telling me that my heroes of the faith didn't have enough faith to get healed?
Nooooooo!!!!!
_____________________________
Of course thieves hate watch-dogs, and love darkness. It is time that somebody should spring his rattle, and call attention to the way in which God is being robbed of his glory, and man of his hope.
- Charles Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: :: Official Kenneth Hagin Discussion - 11/8/2008 1:45:53 PM
|
|
|
misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: gennaoanothen
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
Is the teaching of verbal confessions of verses found in the Bible with the belief that if one believes the Word of God and confesses it then the believer shall receive what they confessed scriptural?
Are human beings able to speak things into being?
Is this heresy that since that Go | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
