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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/13/2008 11:13:43 PM
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fallenstar
Posts: 129
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Well as for me, it was not the fear or idea of hell that drove me to God.
I was drawn to God just like the Scripture says;
(1Jo 4:19) We love him, because he first loved us.
Even if there were no Heaven nor hell, I would still serve Him.
Thanks
RC
Thanx RC. I'm glad you feel that way 
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/13/2008 11:58:55 PM
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dboutwell
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Abraham believed in God, was he ever warned about Hell? Who were the very first people ever warned about Hell for not believing in God?
Debbie
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/15/2008 2:25:03 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 40
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I seriously think that the only reason most people are Christian is so they won't go to hell when they die. Think about it. Without punishment, or Satan or evil, there would'nt be a reason for religon in general. Religon is all about how you live your life, and what happens to you when you die. Is'nt God's love enough? Why can't the joy of God be all you need, not some kind of reward for good behavior? The reason why priests and ministers convert other people to their religon is to save them from going to some spritual inferno of eternal torture. I just feel that if there was no heaven or hell, or reincarnation and karma, or whatever your theory is that people would'nt believe in God. Am I right? Or is God's love enough?
Oh how true is that and yet how sad to know that most people think in that way. God will never do something like that, by reading His word we learn that His nature is pure love and He will never create a place like many think hell is; He want us to love Him, because “He love us first” when we read the creation and the beauty of His creation, and such a perfect way and to think that He did this all for us, how great and infinite is His love that our finites minds cannot comprehend.
Hell is where anyone who die goes; a hole in the ground good of bad we all go to the same place to the dust and we will resurrect some day, some for eternal life and some eternal condemnation (second death, or eternal death).
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/16/2008 3:20:11 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
Hell is where anyone who die goes; a hole in the ground good of bad we all go to the same place to the dust and we will resurrect some day, some for eternal life and some eternal condemnation (second death, or eternal death).
That's an interesting philosophy but it isn't Christian theology nor is it biblical. It certainly isn't what Jesus Himself taught. Are you aware that Jesus taught more about hell than He did about heaven. And He taught it was a place of consciousness and eternal torment.
The LOVE part of God A) warns us about eternal torment and B) paid the price that would redeem us, bring us to heaven, and keep us from hell.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/16/2008 3:46:04 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 40
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
Hell is where anyone who die goes; a hole in the ground good of bad we all go to the same place to the dust and we will resurrect some day, some for eternal life and some eternal condemnation (second death, or eternal death).
That's an interesting philosophy but it isn't Christian theology nor is it biblical. It certainly isn't what Jesus Himself taught. Are you aware that Jesus taught more about hell than He did about heaven. And He taught it was a place of consciousness and eternal torment.
The LOVE part of God A) warns us about eternal torment and B) paid the price that would redeem us, bring us to heaven, and keep us from hell.
On the contrary my dear friend, pure Bible, pure word of God; the Bible teaches clearly that the destruction of the wicked will be at the end of the world, not now.
Job 21:30, 32 The wicked is reserved to the day of destruction. ... Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.
the word hell means grave or tomb that's all.
Where do you think hell is? who is in charge of hell? think about it
the devil deceive many people to insult God, think about it, who will give them eternal life to this people burning in hell?
< Message edited by HisPriest -- 4/16/2008 3:52:30 PM >
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/16/2008 6:05:57 PM
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AskSeekKnock
Posts: 13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SureHope
All God creates and does is a reflection of His glory.
God created hell as a demonstration of His righteousness, justice and wrath, etc.
You can say, without a revelation of God's justice and wrath no one would believe in God. And this would be a true statement because the revelation of God's justice and wrath is a part of who God is and thus we need this revelation to believe in Him.
If this is all we know of God we cannot believe unto salvation, for all we will know is God's justice and wrath upon sinners.
The Lord Jesus Christ and His Cross show us a fuller display of God's nature. Not only does the Cross of Christ display God's righteousness, justice and wrath; but also reveals to us His graciousness, mercy, lovingkindness, forgiveness, etc. Believing God includes all of God - not merely His love or not merely His justice, but His love, justice and mercy. You can't have one without the other when dealing with God.
Blessings,
SH
Amen SH
God's wrath = God's mercy, God's mercy = God's wrath
_____________________________
1 Cor. 4:7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/16/2008 9:02:58 PM
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fallenstar
Posts: 129
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dboutwell
Abraham believed in God, was he ever warned about Hell? Who were the very first people ever warned about Hell for not believing in God?
Debbie
Of course Abraham was'nt fearful of hell, he knew without a doubt that God was real because God spoke to him directly. He did'nt need to worry about hell or wonder if God is there. Today, many people really do convert to Christianity because they are afraid of hell. I don't blame them. It scares me to. But I know that I love Jesus and that he is all I need, even without hell I would love him. I think the whole "you gonna burn if ya don't love God!!!!AAAAAAAAAA!!!" thing started (no offense to people of the Catholic faith, this is just an oppinion, no historical evidence to back it up) in about the time the Catholic church started up, in the early 100's AD. It was a form of getting people to convert. It's a horrible thing to do, really, they should just preach of God's love instead of His wrath.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 8:18:42 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
On the contrary my dear friend, pure Bible, pure word of God; the Bible teaches clearly that the destruction of the wicked will be at the end of the world, not now.
On the contrary, that's poor scholarship. You are proof-texting "hell" from KJV. OT "hell" in KJV invariably only was translating the "abode of all dead." Jesus Himself taught that the unsaved dead are fully aware and in torment while the saved dead are fully conscious and enjoying their new life. Paul made similar assertions.
It's the false religion Jehovah's Witnesses and other cults that have distorted and poorly taught the biblical revelation concerning life after death.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 11:25:16 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
On the contrary my dear friend, pure Bible, pure word of God; the Bible teaches clearly that the destruction of the wicked will be at the end of the world, not now.
On the contrary, that's poor scholarship. You are proof-texting "hell" from KJV. OT "hell" in KJV invariably only was translating the "abode of all dead." Jesus Himself taught that the unsaved dead are fully aware and in torment while the saved dead are fully conscious and enjoying their new life. Paul made similar assertions.
It's the false religion Jehovah's Witnesses and other cults that have distorted and poorly taught the biblical revelation concerning life after death.
I could have made a bad assumption that you are using the KJV. Perhaps you are using "The New World Translation," in which case you are using a completely faulty book that changes scripture to fit a false religion.
So, for clarification, are you using the KJV or "The New World Translation"?
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 11:27:34 AM
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HisPriest
Posts: 40
Joined: 4/11/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
On the contrary my dear friend, pure Bible, pure word of God; the Bible teaches clearly that the destruction of the wicked will be at the end of the world, not now.
On the contrary, that's poor scholarship. You are proof-texting "hell" from KJV. OT "hell" in KJV invariably only was translating the "abode of all dead." Jesus Himself taught that the unsaved dead are fully aware and in torment while the saved dead are fully conscious and enjoying their new life. Paul made similar assertions.
It's the false religion Jehovah's Witnesses and other cults that have distorted and poorly taught the biblical revelation concerning life after death.
No, again this is a way to insult God; I don't know if you are a parent, but will you punish you kid for a week of spanking for something that she or he did wrong? The whole world will condemn you for been a child abuser, and we are talking about a week, just imaging for eternity? What kind of God you think we got, what an insult for Him that is pure love.
The devil know very well that many will reject this idea and will muck religion, “what kind of God is this” I heard “that my love is bigger than this god”
This is the reflection of the devil himself, for he wants to be bigger than the creator.
Your insults about been a cult; is not for me my friend is for God for what I said are not my word, but the words of God, and that is what the devil wants you to do; but Jesus teach the truth, He said “I am the truth”
Christ explicitly taught this truth in the well-known parable of the wheat and the tares. After the householder had sown the wheat in the field, his servant came to report that tares were growing among the grain. His question was whether he should pull up the weeds while they were still very small. The householder's answer was,
"Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn." Matthew 13:29, 30.
Now please read the words of Christ as He explains the meaning of the parable: "He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 13:37-42.
This is just one of the many examples in His word.
Brother or sister, don’t insult any more we are all sons and daughters of God, God love us all.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 11:39:37 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
No, again this is a way to insult God; I don't know if you are a parent, but will you punish you kid for a week of spanking for something that she or he did wrong? The whole world will condemn you for been a child abuser, and we are talking about a week, just imaging for eternity? What kind of God you think we got, what an insult for Him that is pure love.
Your analogy doesn't fit. Those that tread the blood of God the Son underfoot and make a mockery of His atonement are NOT the children of God. Only the redeemed of the Lamb of God are His children.
quote:
Your insults about been a cult; is not for me my friend is for God for what I said are not my word, but the words of God, and that is what the devil wants you to do; but Jesus teach the truth, He said “I am the truth”
You have given me your belief on Jesus' words, not what they acurately mean.
You completely side-stepped your affiliation with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Did I make a mistake or are you ashamed of your "church"?
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 2:40:55 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
No one can simplify the parable by enlarging on what Jesus said. It is so clear that a child can understand it. He said the tares represented the wicked people, and that they would be cast into the fire "at the end of the world." It was in the harvest that the separation would take place, and He plainly stated, "The harvest is the end of the world." How can anyone misconstrue these words of Christ The whole idea of the wicked going into the fire at the time of death contradicts our Lord's specific teaching that they would be cast into the fire at the end of the world.
Since the judgment also takes place after Christ comes we can see how impossible it would be for anyone to be punished before that time. Justice demands that a person be brought into judgment before being punished. Peter declared, "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9.
So that everyone is on the same page, which version are you quoting, KJV or "The New World Translation"?
Does your version of John 1:1 say, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." or does it end with, "...and the Word was a god"?
Help us out here.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 2:54:31 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
No one can simplify the parable by enlarging on what Jesus said....
Since we don't seem to want to talk about our religion or Bible version, let's clarify who Jesus is. Is Jesus Christ eternal God the Son, without beginning or end OR is He a divine, maybe angelic, being whose existence was not eternal?
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 3:45:06 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
The word of God is clear isn't it?
What are YOU calling the word of God?
Are you ashamed to admit the version of Bible you use, your religion, and even who Jesus is?
Honestly, if you cannot at least confess Jesus Christ as Eternal God the Son, I cannot accept your "clear" explanations of His teachings.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 3:53:22 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
....How plain! Jesus said that both good and bad will come forth from their graves to receive either life or damnation...
Unless you are Joe Crews, you are copying from a page where this came from:
Hell-Fire Copyright c by Joe Crews
Want to explain yourself?
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 4:17:12 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
Your insults about been a cult; is not for me my friend is for God for what I said are not my word, but the words of God, and that is what the devil wants you to do; but Jesus teach the truth, He said “I am the truth”
Even most of that long post came from that single web page... Save us the rest of the copy & paste act since we have the page and that unscholarly web site to see where your reasoning resides...
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 5:23:32 PM
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HisPriest
Posts: 40
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In the image of God or in the image of the beast
what that means?
in the image of God = love for God and you brother
in the image of the beast = the accuser
Are you going to accuse Jesus? Not so many times he said word by word verses from the OT? Is that your defense? Is this your way out? Cannot contradict the word of God right?
Will you stone me if I were in front of you?
How low you can you go?
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 5:33:31 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
Are you going to accuse Jesus?
More than once I have asked you to confess Jesus Christ as eternal God the Son, yet you steadfastly refuse but post unrelated gibberish.
What is your confession regarding Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible? Don't throw Jesus in my face unless you can answer that question.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 5:35:27 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2384
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
....How plain! Jesus said that both good and bad will come forth from their graves to receive either life or damnation...
Unless you are Joe Crews, you are copying from a page where this came from:
Hell-Fire Copyright c by Joe Crews
Want to explain yourself?
I just LOLed.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 5:39:16 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
....How plain! Jesus said that both good and bad will come forth from their graves to receive either life or damnation...
Unless you are Joe Crews, you are copying from a page where this came from:
Hell-Fire Copyright c by Joe Crews
Want to explain yourself?
I just LOLed.
I've never debated a copy & paste artist before. It's a little like arguing with my desk calendar...
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 6:38:14 PM
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Kath
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HisPriest
Have you read our Terms of Service? TOS 8 say:
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You are allowed to post a small portion with a link to the rest. Admin has determined a portion to be 3 paragraphs or less. You certainly cannot post the material and try to pass it off as your own.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/17/2008 8:05:56 PM
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HisPriest
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Here is more to think about, when we read Romans 6:23; it says that “the wages of sin is death” it does not says eternal life in hellfire, it looks for me that the slaves of the master the beast are going to get exactly what they have earned.
Malachi 4:1 “For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.”
Here in this verse we can read that the wicked is going to be stubble at the judgment day and the destruction of the wicked is total destruction by fire; but is at the second coming of our Lord, not now.
By the way the word “stubble” indicates in this case a complete destruction of the ungodly; they will not linger on in everlasting suffering, like some erroneously believed.
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RE: Without hell, nobody would believe in God - 4/18/2008 7:44:16 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6628
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisPriest
Here is more to think about....
An unknown author posed the following:
CHRIST...
To the ARTIST He is the One Altogether Lovely.
To the ARCHITECT He is the Chief Corner Stone.
To the BAKER He is the Living Bread.
To the BANKER He is the Hidden Treasure.
To the BIOLOGIST He is the Life.
To the BUILDER He is the Sure Foundation.
To the CARPENTER He is the Door.
To the DOCTOR He is the Great Physician.
To the EDUCATOR He is the Great Teacher.
To the ENGINEER He is the New and Living Way .
To the FLORIST He is the Rose of Sharon and the Lily of the Valley.
To the GEOLOGIST He is the Rock of Ages.
To the HORTICULTURIST He is the True Vine.
To the JUDGE He is the Righteous Judge, Judge of All Men.
To the JEWELER He is the Pearl of Great Price.
To the LAWYER He is the Counselor, the Lawgiver, the Advocate.
To the NEWSPAPER He is the Good Tidings of Great Joy.
To the OCULIST He is the Light of the Eyes.
To the PHILANTHROPIST He is the Unspeakable Gift.
To the PHILOSOPHER He is the Wisdom of God.
To the PREACHER He is the Word of God.
To the SCULPTOR He is the Living Stone.
To the SERVANT He is the Good Master.
To the STATESMAN He is the Desire of All Nations.
To the STUDENT He is the Incarnate Truth.
To the THEOLOGIAN He is the Author and Finisher of our Faith.
To the TOILER He is the Giver of Rest.
To the SINNER He is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world.
To the CHRISTIAN He is the Son of the Living God, the Savior, the Redeemer and the Lord.
To me...HE is all of this and more;
HE is my everything, my all in all;
HE is more than LIFE to me,
My soon coming King.
What is He to you?
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