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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 2:53:17 AM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 4:6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 4:7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. If we are THE jars of clay here, doesn't that suggest that the Christ in us, the light, is the holy part of us and not us ourselves? That we are jars of clay.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. James 4:4
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 7:04:25 AM
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deliveredarling
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The way I heard Grace, not that this was the intended meaning, was almost like a license to sin, that our sins have been forgiven from the past, present and future. This I have a problem with. This message that i heard gave me the right, as a follower of Christ, to go back to my old life and continue being a drunk, because i am forgiven. This does not make any sense to me. If I love Him because He first loved me and the freedom He gave me, why would I want to live that way again? It seems to be my experience, that because of the freedom from alcoholic bondage, that I would not want to go back to it. if I had not of experienced this freedom, then I could feasibly desire to continuing to live in it, not having known freedom. Is Grace not comingled with deliverance? Or can we say we believe in the Christ and that's all there is to our salvation? Where is the growth? If a true salvation experience has occurred, then why no change? I don't see how because of His love, we can continue to do those things that He despises. I'm talking about heavy duty sin here. Knowing and willfully deciding to do those things He considers an abomination. I sin everyday, sometimes not even realizing it until He brings it to my attention. Is the crux of this matter-choice?
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light." Luke 8:16
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 8:26:41 AM
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blue1914
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The one thing I keep failing to see on this thread is the answer to this one question (that is at the heart of this matter)-Why do we sin? The answer is this-we want to do it OUR way instead of God's way. At the heart of every sin is pride-a belief (though often unconcious) that our way of doing things is better than what God has told us. Our pleasures are more important than self sacrifice, our comfort is more important than self control-in short, it's a "Burger King" mentality-have it your way. If we realize that we are battling against our own will and CONFORMING it to God's will (and we are told that we are not to conform to this world - sin - but be TRANSFORMED - as in CHANGED, often gradually - to the image of God by the renewing of our mind), then we can realize that we will SIN less as we learn more of God's will (and submit to it in our lives). THAT'S what causes a cessation of sin-anything else-a bunch of rules, a sterile existence, etc. etc. will FAIL-unless we WANT to follow God more than we WANT to follow satan, we will not be transformed. Grace is the freedom to choose which one we want.
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 8:49:30 AM
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drmark
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quote:
If we are THE jars of clay here, doesn't that suggest that the Christ in us, the light, is the holy part of us and not us ourselves? That we are jars of clay. But does not the Master Potter make the earthen vessel into a perfect, functional object? Yes it can still fall and break, yes it can eventually wear out or crack from overuse, but the jar was created just the way the Potter designed and formed it to be perfect for its intended purpose, not to be absolutely symmetric or totally indestructible. God makes us holy, SonInMe1, not to be physically unblemished, or emotionally stable in every situation, or without any mistake or frailty, but rather that we can experience the perfect Love of Christ in our souls. When we are sanctified holy, we do not and will not continuously sin! quote:
The one thing I keep failing to see on this thread is the answer to this one question (that is at the heart of this matter)-Why do we sin? You have stated it well, blue1914. I would only add the phrase often used by old-time Holiness preachers - self-centered carnality. That is the cause of sin and some of us believe it can be cleansed away in this life.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 8:58:44 AM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914 The one thing I keep failing to see on this thread is the answer to this one question (that is at the heart of this matter)-Why do we sin? The answer is this-we want to do it OUR way instead of God's way. At the heart of every sin is pride-a belief (though often unconcious) that our way of doing things is better than what God has told us. Our pleasures are more important than self sacrifice, our comfort is more important than self control-in short, it's a "Burger King" mentality-have it your way. If we realize that we are battling against our own will and CONFORMING it to God's will (and we are told that we are not to conform to this world - sin - but be TRANSFORMED - as in CHANGED, often gradually - to the image of God by the renewing of our mind), then we can realize that we will SIN less as we learn more of God's will (and submit to it in our lives). THAT'S what causes a cessation of sin-anything else-a bunch of rules, a sterile existence, etc. etc. will FAIL-unless we WANT to follow God more than we WANT to follow satan, we will not be transformed. Grace is the freedom to choose which one we want. Amen. Very well said blue1914.
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The sin of the world is unbelief. "I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 9:05:38 AM
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Liveloved
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quote:
If we realize that we are battling against our own will and CONFORMING it to God's will (and we are told that we are not to conform to this world - sin - but be TRANSFORMED - as in CHANGED, often gradually - to the image of God by the renewing of our mind), then we can realize that we will SIN less as we learn more of God's will (and submit to it in our lives). THAT'S what causes a cessation of sin-anything else-a bunch of rules, a sterile existence, etc. etc. will FAIL-unless we WANT to follow God more than we WANT to follow satan, we will not be transformed. Amen, Blue. And it all comes down to LOVE. Who do we LOVE? If I love myself most of all, I will please me. If I love Jesus most of all, I will seek to please Him. It is a LOVE TRANSFER that is being transacted within us. That is what sanctification is all about. God continually shows me newer and deeper ways of LOVE. And, yes, that means the giving up of my sinful ways, self pleasing behaviors and actions. Mercy, the mercy I have received, leads to greater and greater love for the Mercyer, Jesus. Only as I see and confess and give up my sin, do I receive mercy and am reminded of the mercy I have already received. As I said before, it is the glue that sticks me to Jesus. My sin (and its endlessness) only shows the breadth and depth of His mercy to me. O how I love Jesus!
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 9:18:50 AM
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cobblestone
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Amen God motivated. On that note I shall get ready for the day :wave:
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 11:03:15 AM
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jbow
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quote:
If a true salvation experience has occurred, then why no change? I don't see how because of His love, we can continue to do those things that He despises. I'm talking about heavy duty sin here. The fact of the matter is that we can indeed choose to sin as a believer. It is not the right decision but we are very capable of it. The difference in the Christian life is that it is not done with ease. the unregenerate person will choose to sin and not even notice it. It is their nature to sin and they NEVER do anything righteous. Life in this world is like a river that we all swim in. It has a strong current. Unbelievers go with the flow, never even noticing the current because they never struggle against it. A Christian will constantly struggle against the current, swimming upstream. Sometimes we choose to sin. If we do, we can come to the throne of grace, we can repent and go again. To teach that a Christian will not choose to sin, and sometimes seriously, is error. The Bible tell's us that the man who think's that he stands should take heed lest he fall. Proverbs 24:16 says: For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of calamity. That is the struggle, the wicked have no such struggle. The very nature of struggle gives the possibility of failure. If it were not so, it would not be a struggle. Sometimes we may fall before our enemy but we can find grace if we do. Who is our enemy? Who is the wicked who is our enemy? I can tell you about my enemy, he live's inside of me. He is a homebody, he never leaves and he never sleeps. He is my old nature, my flesh, indwelling sin. Thank God that once I believed, I got a new nature. The new and the old fight for control of my body. Most of the time the new wins but sometimes I am weak, sometimes the old wins and I choose to sin. Thank God He does not give me the boot. Thank God He still love's me. There was a man living in gross sin in the church. He had his father's wife. Paul delivered him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his soul might be saved in the end, (this implies that the man was justified and in the end saved, though not in a way we should choose). That did not make it ok to sin, it never is but there is grace. The difference is that a Christian will feel the struggle and the wicked will not. The reason the Christian will feel the struggle is because we have, in addition to the old nature, a new nature. We have the Holy Spirit. We do not have a liscense to sin, God forbid... but we do have the ability to sin. Can a Christian practice sin? Yes, but not comfortably and not for an unlimited time. Some Christians get caught up in sin, sometimes grievous sin, but if they are a Christian they will be miserable about it. The one who sins and thinks that it is just fine... need's to worry. I reckon the question is what is meant by "continuously". When does it become continuously? Two days? Two weeks? Two hours? Two years? Two times? Personally I think the whole matter is all defined by the struggle or lack thereof, not by the action but by the heart. Actions do matter but the source of the action matters more. The source defines the action. J
< Message edited by jbow -- 4/14/2008 1:21:39 PM >
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"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 12:17:52 PM
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deliveredarling
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Thank you Jbow, that was very helpful to me.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light." Luke 8:16
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 1:21:26 PM
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jbow
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling Thank you Jbow, that was very helpful to me. You're welcome. Things changed when Jesus came. At His birth the angels sang... "Glory to God in the highest and on earth: peace, good will toward men". It signified the difference that Jesus' fulfillment of the law means to us who live in this world. Peace on earth, good will toward men... grace. God is SO good to us. Jesus has blessed us so much. I cannot wait to cast my crown before His feet. J
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"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 5:06:19 PM
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frankman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311 quote:
will NOT get into heaven. Ok... that's what I thought and I agree as well. I see this as a threshing time. The Bible has this to say about Christians living a holy life in 1 Peter 1:16. "Be holy, because I am holy." However people also need to be reminded that non of us will ever get to heaven because of our holiness. In this area we all fall short. I already quoted Isa.64:6 about our righteous acts being before God as filthy rags in a previous post, so I`ll quote Rom.3:10-12 this time. "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." So if that`s the place the Jews and Gentiles were at, where does that leave us? Again I say our holiness be it perfect holiness, as great as that may be, will not save us. Only our faith in Jesus as our Lord and Savior will ever save us. Even though we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone, we are instructed in Scripture to desire to live a Christlike holy life, separated from the unholy lifestyles of our unsaved friends. Only by the strength of the Holy Spirit in us is this possible. So let`s say as an example one lives a blameless and holy life before God like Joseph did. I believe Joseph is a good example of somebody who did not live in continuous sin. Despite Joseph excellent holy lifestyle, according to God`s Word, Joseph`s righteous lifestyle still did not measure up to God`s standard of holiness. God would refer to Joseph`s holy lifestyle as but filthy rags (Isa.64:6). Now this is where God`s gift of grace comes in. We may not be living in continuous sin, which is great, but let us remember in God`s eyes it is only the righteousness of Christ in us, which is appropriated only by faith in Christ, that God will ever measure us by. In everything else we fall short. If it were not for Christ`s righteousness in us by which God measures us, we would all be lost forever with no redemption possible. That`s why Paul stated in Gal.6:14 "May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." If we must boast, let`s boast about the cross and not the fact we`re not living in continuous sin. Were it not for the cross, continuous sin would still be our bondage.
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"The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever." Isa. 40:8 Greetings- Frankman
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 6:48:45 PM
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Walker311
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quote:
If we must boast, let`s boast about the cross and not the fact we`re not living in continuous sin. Were it not for the cross, continuous sin would still be our bondage. I basicly wanted to focus on the fact that we focus on the fact that we can't stop sinning. We make claims about sin as if it has a life of it's on. The only time it does have a life of it's own is when we let sin become a flame and add fuel to it. The world is not dumping the fuel on our sin, we are! If we say that we have the SON in us and we are "set free", then why do we constantly use all the Christian cliches? I don't want to sin, I don't like to sin, and I do not have to sin. I do not have a set time that I decide NOT to sin I just trust that the Holy Spirit will help me to continually strive to be Christlike by doing the things that build my faith rather than placing myself in sitiuations both physically and mentally that could cause me to sin. I enjoy the rest, the peace, and the freedom of not having to deal with the guilt and conviction that comes from consequences of sin. These are the benefits of a heart after God not a super Holier-than-thou human. Twenty years ago, I was not in the place that I am now. I could not say what I just said previously. It takes time! Our lives contain a history of mistakes both in our normal every day lives and in our sins. I don't do the things I used to or think about the things that I did twenty years ago. There comes a time that we all must change. God has a way of getting our attention and causing us to see that we cannot continuously do the same sin or a multitude of sins and have a loving relationship with Him. He is a jealous God!
< Message edited by Walker311 -- 4/14/2008 6:54:46 PM >
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 9:12:10 PM
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drmark
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quote:
However people also need to be reminded that non of us will ever get to heaven because of our holiness. People also need to be reminded that it is Christ's holiness working in, through, and with us that gets us to heaven! We have no holiness of our own without Him, yet no one will see Him without holiness. quote:
We may not be living in continuous sin, which is great, but let us remember in God`s eyes it is only the righteousness of Christ in us, which is appropriated only by faith in Christ, that God will ever measure us by. Chapter and verse please, frankman. By this faulty theology, one could sin all day as long as one has appropriated enough faith to measure up. How much faith does a sinning Christian need to get to heaven? quote:
That`s why Paul stated in Gal.6:14 "May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world." While we're in Galatians, how about 5:24-25 - "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit." A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! quote:
I enjoy the rest, the peace, and the freedom of not having to deal with the guilt and conviction that comes from consequences of sin. These are the benefits of a heart after God not a super Holier-than-thou human. AMEN, Walker311! I could care less about being holier-than-thou. I want God to make me as holy as Christ. He can do it for everyone, by His grace and power!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/14/2008 9:28:38 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling Thank you Jbow, that was very helpful to me. You're welcome. Things changed when Jesus came. At His birth the angels sang... "Glory to God in the highest and on earth: peace, good will toward men". It signified the difference that Jesus' fulfillment of the law means to us who live in this world. Peace on earth, good will toward men... grace. God is SO good to us. Jesus has blessed us so much. I cannot wait to cast my crown before His feet. J Absolutely! The life, death and resurrection of Christ changed everything! It is a shame many Christians choose to live as though it didn't. God is Good!
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The sin of the world is unbelief. "I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 7:25:01 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven Absolutely! The life, death and resurrection of Christ changed everything! It is a shame many Christians choose to live as though it didn't. God is Good! This is the part that i don't get. Knowing His love and the freedom He offers us because of His Grace,(removing the chains and bondages from us by His forgiveness) why some accept it and others don't. Isn't this freedom worth accepting? from my experience, I regret having not accepted it sooner. I wouldn't trade the love and freedom He offers me for nothing. Nor do I want to do anything that could send me straight back to the bondage. I think If more people understood it, there would be so many more Christians on fire for Jesus.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light." Luke 8:16
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 7:28:23 AM
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SonInMe1
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Anyone want to have me and my camera follow you around for a week?
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. James 4:4
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 9:02:25 AM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven Absolutely! The life, death and resurrection of Christ changed everything! It is a shame many Christians choose to live as though it didn't. God is Good! quote:
This is the part that i don't get. Knowing His love and the freedom He offers us because of His Grace,(removing the chains and bondages from us by His forgiveness) why some accept it and others don't. Isn't this freedom worth accepting? from my experience, I regret having not accepted it sooner. I wouldn't trade the love and freedom He offers me for nothing. Nor do I want to do anything that could send me straight back to the bondage. I think If more people understood it, there would be so many more Christians on fire for Jesus. You could not be more right. It is unfortunate that the message that most hear is only a message of condemnation and the old covenant way of trying as they may to be "good". Of trying to make themselves acceptable to God. Where's the Good News in that? Jesus Christ has made us acceptable to God. He has given us, who have accepted Him, life...eternal life! This is the Good News!
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The sin of the world is unbelief. "I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 10:51:11 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Anyone want to have me and my camera follow you around for a week? Most anyone can put on a good show for a week, SonInMe1! The real test of sanctified holiness is how we think and act when no one else but God is watching. I suspect you would be shocked that so many God-fearing, Bible-beliving, Spirit-led Christians can and do live victoriously over willful disobedience, if you would only get by your faulty understanding of "sin".
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 2:32:04 PM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE Just a reminder that this thread is about continual, willful, unrepentant sinning. If you'd like to discuss whether Christians dont' sin at all, please take it to the threads in Christian Doctrine. Thanks! Tricia Forums Moderator Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat. Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 4:30:34 PM
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frankman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark [ quote:
We may not be living in continuous sin, which is great, but let us remember in God`s eyes it is only the righteousness of Christ in us, which is appropriated only by faith in Christ, that God will ever measure us by. Chapter and verse please, frankman. By this faulty theology, one could sin all day as long as one has appropriated enough faith to measure up. How much faith does a sinning Christian need to get to heaven? I believe "Walker311" testimony in Post#187 is a perfect example of what happens to us after we are re-generated. We become a new creation in Christ. The Holy Spirit will not allow us to live comfortable in a life of habitual sin after we become a Christian. I think you answered our question very well. I also appreciate "drmark`s" response and especially for his request for chapter and verse were I may have sounded a little confusing. So please allow me to use the Bible in clarifying what I meant here. Christ will only measure us fit for His kingdom by our faith in Him and not by our good works. Titus 3:5-7 varifies this. "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savoir, so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life." How are we justified by His grace? Rom.3:24 gives us the answer. "and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." John 3:16 tells us how this redemption is received. "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." Now how much faith does it take? Enough faith to totally trust in the fact that Jesus paid the price for all your sins on the cross and only for that reason will you be saved. "As the Scripture says, Anyone who trusts in Him will never be put to shame." (Rom.10:11) 1 John 3:6 tells us Christians are not to continue to live in continual, willful, unrepentant sin AFTER they are saved. However in order to be saved, salvation is only possible by faith alone in Christ alone. Hope this clarifies my point.
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"The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever." Isa. 40:8 Greetings- Frankman
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 6:04:18 PM
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deliveredarling
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Is it fair to say that a "true" Christian will not live in continual sin. Not that they won't sin, but that they won't knowingly, and willingly continue to do this? Or are we talking about certain sins, pertaining to certain lifestyles and actions possibly. Those were the first "sins" that popped in my head when I began reading this thread. I don't believe true Christians will continue to do this. Maybe I need to restate that, I don't believe maturing Christians will continue to knowingly and willingly sin. I believe that as we grow, so does our understanding and our desire to be in the world lessens.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light." Luke 8:16
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 7:22:33 PM
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Walker311
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2Pe:2:20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2Pe:2:21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe:2:22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. I know that there are questions concerning these verses about whether or not it refers to true believers but there is another point I wish to make. I believe that God does everything that He can to keep us from getting entangled in world and we know the reasons. Consider if the bible had continued in the saga of the prodigal son. What if he returned home to the welcoming arms of old dad who killed the fatted calf, threw a big party, and then a couple of weeks later, his beloved son ran off with a load of valuables. He sells it all and blows it all on wine, women, and song. Dad ends up this time trying to find him and discovers that his son died all alone, on the street, buried by the vagabonds. This happens every day but this example does not provide all the chances that God gives us. He loves us and knows that the ultimate consequence to our continuous sin will be death. And death prevents us from making any changes to how we lived.
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 9:08:58 PM
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SonInMe1
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If we do not live in continual sin, then, is there any sin that challenges you? A sin you have to keep guard against all the time? A sin that pops up once in a while? RC, a boring week with you sounds like paradise.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. James 4:4
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RE: A Christian WILL NOT Continuously Sin! - 4/15/2008 10:01:28 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 1833
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
If we do not live in continual sin, then, is there any sin that challenges you? A sin you have to keep guard against all the time? A sin that pops up once in a while? I don't know who you want to answer but personally, I see "sin" as a purposefully thought out action or thought and not something that catches you by suprise. My answer is an emphatic no! It wasn't always this way and maybe age, years of marriage, fatherhood, and other responsibilities have helped me in this area. When you grow in your walk with the Lord, sin is not a bull that you have to grab by the horns, it should become like a skeeter. They can draw a little blood but you can always smash em. I hate blood sucking skeeters and their little demon buddies. I would rather be happy and busy doing things to help others rather than having a little sinful fun followed by a guilt party. Been there, done that! Continuous SIN is a roller coaster headed for nowhere and I got off a few years ago. It was time to grow up! ________________________________ Rc, a boring week with you sounds... well, boring!
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