Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (Full Version)

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Little_1 -> Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/1/2008 7:00:11 AM)

Philippians 3:1-11

1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


Paul is already a Christian when he recorded verse 10. Paul ever presses on to strengthen and build his relationship with the Lord by the power of the Holy Spirit - that is his testimony.

The 'power of the resurrection' is what helps us to live out the life that Jesus wants us to live - the very same power that raised Jesus from the dead is the only means by which we can truly live for Jesus - it is a life surrendered (willingly given) to the Holy Spirit to work with for God's glory. Not I who lives but Christ who lives in me.

From what I can see in the churches today, Christians seem to be denying the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit which raised Christ from the dead by trying to follow Jesus' teachings in their own strength rather than living for Him in the power of the Holy Spirit which is available to all those who ask. The Galatians fell into the very same trap:

Galatians 3:2-4

2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The results spell the same for the much of the church of Christ today as it did for the Galatians Christian church many centuries ago - defeat, disillusionment and powerless testimonies! [&o]

Christians should not be afraid to surrender to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our friend and Counsellor - He wants to grow us up into a deeper and more meaningful relationship with the Lord. Anything less than what Paul here mentions (verse 10) is merely existing and not real, abundant life as God intends for us.

Does anyone else agree? Is the Holy Spirit resurrection power a reality in our lives? Is the Holy Spirit a reality in your life? If not - He can be - He is available to anyone who asks.


- Does anyone else agree?



DaveW -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/1/2008 10:14:07 AM)

I do.

I am reading a book right now that addresses this issue. Perhaps later I will have time to post about it some here.



john_mark -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/1/2008 2:54:19 PM)

gordon fee has a book called "God's empowering presence", in which he discusses every passage in paul's writings where paul refers to the Holy Spirit. it is quite impressive to see how much empasis paul puts on the the work of the Holy Spirit. while fee is a pentacostal, he writes as a conservative scholar. after reading his work i came away with a fresh perspective on the Holy Spirit and agree that in some conservative protestant churches the work of the Holy Spirit tends to be mininized.



Bluethread -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/1/2008 4:44:48 PM)

I'm not sure what you are talking about in particular. Ruach Ha Chedosh(The Holy Spirit) leads us into the all the Torah(truth) as explified by Yeshua Ha Meshiach(Jesus The Messiah). Do you suggest that there is something else that Ruach Ha Chedosh does?



iSERVEaJEW -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/1/2008 5:44:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

I'm not sure what you are talking about in particular. Ruach Ha Chedosh(The Holy Spirit) leads us into the all the Torah(truth) as explified by Yeshua Ha Meshiach(Jesus The Messiah). Do you suggest that there is something else that Ruach Ha Chedosh does?

Doesn't He also give us spiritual gifts, or charismata?

1 Corinthians 12



Bluethread -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/1/2008 7:16:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

I'm not sure what you are talking about in particular. Ruach Ha Chedosh(The Holy Spirit) leads us into the all the Torah(truth) as explified by Yeshua Ha Meshiach(Jesus The Messiah). Do you suggest that there is something else that Ruach Ha Chedosh does?

Doesn't He also give us spiritual gifts, or charismata?

1 Corinthians 12


I believe those gifts have always been available, encouraged in the Tanach(old testiment) and exemplified in the earthly life of Yeshua.



iSERVEaJEW -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/1/2008 7:30:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

quote:

ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

I'm not sure what you are talking about in particular. Ruach Ha Chedosh(The Holy Spirit) leads us into the all the Torah(truth) as explified by Yeshua Ha Meshiach(Jesus The Messiah). Do you suggest that there is something else that Ruach Ha Chedosh does?

Doesn't He also give us spiritual gifts, or charismata?

1 Corinthians 12


I believe those gifts have always been available, encouraged in the Tanach(old testiment) and exemplified in the earthly life of Yeshua.


Perhaps you're right. Why do you believe that? What Scriptures support that idea?



Bluethread -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/1/2008 7:53:33 PM)

The lists of the gifts are not the same, leading me to believe they are not exhuastive. That said, I think the best way to test this is to try to go through the gifts and see if any of them is missing in the Tanach.



iSERVEaJEW -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/1/2008 7:57:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

The lists of the gifts are not the same, leading me to believe they are not exhuastive. That said, I think the best way to test this is to try to go through the gifts and see if any of them is missing in the Tanach.

Perhaps we could find them all there, though I can't think of any clear examples on the gift of tongues in the Tanakh. That being said, what then was the significance of our Master immersing people in the Spirit? Wasn't it to give them power to bring the good news to the nations?



Little_1 -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/2/2008 5:36:13 AM)

I believe the Holy Spirit does give us gifts (as He chooses - although some we are to desire); however, my question is do we believe Christians are denying the power of the Holy Spirit in that what God began in their hearts at salvation by His Spirit is being replaced by Christians trying to obey God's Word in their own strength and not in the power of the Holy Spirit and are therefore failing miserably and becoming disheartened and disolusioned as a result of trying to do what only can be achieved by relying/depending in complete surrender to the Holy Spirit to do through us as explained better in the following text:

Galatians 3:2-4

2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?



DaveW -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/2/2008 8:28:07 AM)

There are 4 lists of gifts (or 5 depending) of the Holy Spirit/Ruach haKodesh and can be remembered by this: 12 - 12 - 4 - 4 (thank you Chuck Swindoll!)

Romans 12
1 Cor 12 (possibly 2 distinct lists)
Eph 4
1 Pet 4 (very short)

As to functions of the Ruach, there are several.
TO convince the world of sin and the need for Jesus/Yeshua.
To lead us into all truth
To lead us into maturity
To perform acts of power as proof of the gospel message



Little_1 -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/2/2008 8:39:09 AM)

These are good studies you each mention but the original question is still not being answered so perhaps I have not made it very easy to understand - sorry folks!

I will try to make the original question a bit clearer......

Do you believe Christians are 'depending' on the Holy Spirit as we should? i.e. do you think much of the Christian church (which began in the Spirit) has moved away from the Holy Spirit dependance and is now trying to operate in it's own power and strength (i.e. 'the flesh') independant of the divine Helper (perhaps not even realizing for the most part)? [:(]

Do we as individuals surrender our wills, emotions and all that we are to the Lord daily and ask His Holy Spirit to live through us no matter what that may cost us?



DaveW -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/2/2008 12:04:41 PM)

Do you believe Christians are 'depending' on the Holy Spirit as we should?
No.

do you think much of the Christian church (which began in the Spirit) has moved away from the Holy Spirit dependance and is now trying to operate in it's own power and strength (i.e. 'the flesh') independant of the divine Helper (perhaps not even realizing for the most part)?
Absolutely. The concept of a supernatural being having influence in our lives (even as christians) is so far off the radar screen that we never give it a second thought. His presence and power should never be dismissed out of hand but that is exactly what much of the church world does.



Little_1 -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/2/2008 12:28:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

Do you believe Christians are 'depending' on the Holy Spirit as we should?
No.

do you think much of the Christian church (which began in the Spirit) has moved away from the Holy Spirit dependance and is now trying to operate in it's own power and strength (i.e. 'the flesh') independant of the divine Helper (perhaps not even realizing for the most part)?
Absolutely. The concept of a supernatural being having influence in our lives (even as christians) is so far off the radar screen that we never give it a second thought. His presence and power should never be dismissed out of hand but that is exactly what much of the church world does.


It is worrying Dave (which I'm sure you will agree). Even the number of responses to this question may possibly be an indication of the 'spiritual temperature' (so to speak) in the body of Christ - I really hope not however and mean that sincerely. [:(]



Bluethread -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/2/2008 7:14:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iSERVEaJEW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

The lists of the gifts are not the same, leading me to believe they are not exhuastive. That said, I think the best way to test this is to try to go through the gifts and see if any of them is missing in the Tanach.

Perhaps we could find them all there, though I can't think of any clear examples on the gift of tongues in the Tanakh. That being said, what then was the significance of our Master immersing people in the Spirit? Wasn't it to give them power to bring the good news to the nations?


I was thinking of this last night and recalled Balaam's donkey and Yoseph would have needed to become fluent in Egyptian in short order in order to rise to prominance as quickly as he did.

To get back to the OP's topic, I will repeat that I am not sure what you are refering to.

If you are talking about serving out of a sense of obligation rather than out of love for Adonai, I believe this is indeed the case for many, as it has been throughout the ages. Salvation by grace alone and depending on Ruach Ha Chedosh for the power to live as is pleasing to Him is a constant theme in the Tanach, the Apistolic writings and the writers of the reformation. Of course, this is telescoping history. My point being that Adonai has, is and will continue urge us to look to Him for our sustainance.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/2/2008 10:53:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Little_1

Philippians 3:1-11

1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


Paul is already a Christian when he recorded verse 10. Paul ever presses on to strengthen and build his relationship with the Lord by the power of the Holy Spirit - that is his testimony.

The 'power of the resurrection' is what helps us to live out the life that Jesus wants us to live - the very same power that raised Jesus from the dead is the only means by which we can truly live for Jesus - it is a life surrendered (willingly given) to the Holy Spirit to work with for God's glory. Not I who lives but Christ who lives in me.

From what I can see in the churches today, Christians seem to be denying the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit which raised Christ from the dead by trying to follow Jesus' teachings in their own strength rather than living for Him in the power of the Holy Spirit which is available to all those who ask. The Galatians fell into the very same trap:

Galatians 3:2-4

2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The results spell the same for the much of the church of Christ today as it did for the Galatians Christian church many centuries ago - defeat, disillusionment and powerless testimonies! [&o]

Christians should not be afraid to surrender to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our friend and Counsellor - He wants to grow us up into a deeper and more meaningful relationship with the Lord. Anything less than what Paul here mentions (verse 10) is merely existing and not real, abundant life as God intends for us.

Does anyone else agree? Is the Holy Spirit resurrection power a reality in our lives? Is the Holy Spirit a reality in your life? If not - He can be - He is available to anyone who asks.


- Does anyone else agree?



Yes, yes, yes, I agree!



URForgiven -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/3/2008 10:25:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Little_1

Philippians 3:1-11

1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.


Paul is already a Christian when he recorded verse 10. Paul ever presses on to strengthen and build his relationship with the Lord by the power of the Holy Spirit - that is his testimony.

The 'power of the resurrection' is what helps us to live out the life that Jesus wants us to live - the very same power that raised Jesus from the dead is the only means by which we can truly live for Jesus - it is a life surrendered (willingly given) to the Holy Spirit to work with for God's glory. Not I who lives but Christ who lives in me.

From what I can see in the churches today, Christians seem to be denying the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit which raised Christ from the dead by trying to follow Jesus' teachings in their own strength rather than living for Him in the power of the Holy Spirit which is available to all those who ask. The Galatians fell into the very same trap:

Galatians 3:2-4

2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The results spell the same for the much of the church of Christ today as it did for the Galatians Christian church many centuries ago - defeat, disillusionment and powerless testimonies! [&o]

Christians should not be afraid to surrender to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our friend and Counsellor - He wants to grow us up into a deeper and more meaningful relationship with the Lord. Anything less than what Paul here mentions (verse 10) is merely existing and not real, abundant life as God intends for us.

Does anyone else agree? Is the Holy Spirit resurrection power a reality in our lives? Is the Holy Spirit a reality in your life? If not - He can be - He is available to anyone who asks.


- Does anyone else agree?


Umm...this is kinda what the whole Christian thing is all about.

Christianity IS the restoration of the Spirit of God in man. It is the receiving of God's Holy Spirit that makes us Christians. It is not something we have to ask for, it is a present reality in every Believer.

The problem is that people go on living as if nothing has changed, and unfortunately most of what they are taught supports this. They go out determined to try and live the Christian life...even if it kills them. It will.

It is the indwelling Holy Spirit who leads us, as we abide [focus, depend] in Jesus Christ. God accomplishes through us what we could never accomplish on our own.

Christians are denying the power of the Holy Spirit. They do so when they make themselves the initiator, instead of responding to the prompting and leading of the Holy Spirit within them.



rcjames -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/3/2008 10:35:06 AM)

The Apostle John writes;

(2Ti 3:1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

(2Ti 3:2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

(2Ti 3:3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

(2Ti 3:4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

(2Ti 3:5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

(2Ti 3:6) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

(2Ti 3:7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It would seem to me that we are full blown in the middle of this promise. The main mistake being made is that Believers do not turn away from those who deny he Power, but cuddle then, and listen to them.

Thanks
RC



wintery -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/3/2008 10:45:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

The Apostle John writes;

(2Ti 3:1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

(2Ti 3:2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

(2Ti 3:3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

(2Ti 3:4) Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

(2Ti 3:5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

(2Ti 3:6) For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

(2Ti 3:7) Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It would seem to me that we are full blown in the middle of this promise. The main mistake being made is that Believers do not turn away from those who deny he Power, but cuddle then, and listen to them.

Thanks
RC


RC, are we on the same page that the denying of the power is shown in the living to the flesh? Those verses indicate nominal Christians in all kinds of sin, denying the power of God-given self-control, showing no restraint or turning away from sin. Is your point that we are soft on sin?
Or are we soft on sin because we are not seeking God wholeheartedly?



rcjames -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/3/2008 11:49:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wintery
RC, are we on the same page that the denying of the power is shown in the living to the flesh? Those verses indicate nominal Christians in all kinds of sin, denying the power of God-given self-control, showing no restraint or turning away from sin. Is your point that we are soft on sin?
Or are we soft on sin because we are not seeking God wholeheartedly?


IMHO that would definately be part of it, but it goes deeper than that. Folks do not think God answers prayer; so they don't pray. Folks worship God, but not with the awe and respect due the Omnipotent One, because they don't believe that what power God has is relevant to them. Folks do not spread the Gospel with the zeal of the first century Believers because they do not believe in the Power of the Holy Spirit as the early Believers.

I do not mean this as a blanket indictment; for all folks do not deny the power of the Holy Spirit, but sadly many do and the number is growing daily.

Thsnks
RC



wintery -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/3/2008 12:12:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

IMHO that would definately be part of it, but it goes deeper than that. Folks do not think God answers prayer; so they don't pray. Folks worship God, but not with the awe and respect due the Omnipotent One, because they don't believe that what power God has is relevant to them. Folks do not spread the Gospel with the zeal of the first century Believers because they do not believe in the Power of the Holy Spirit as the early Believers.

I do not mean this as a blanket indictment; for all folks do not deny the power of the Holy Spirit, but sadly many do and the number is growing daily.

Thsnks
RC


I hear you. God is immensely interested and relevant - sometimes we fail to see what happens with that in mind. Job didn't forget. Also Romans 8:28 shows God's relevance and interest - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.



Bluethread -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/3/2008 1:40:14 PM)

I like to look at the analogy of the family. There are some children who only talk to Abba(Papa) when they want something, take it for granted when He says yes and get upset when He says no. Ohters spend time with Abba and get to know him, diligently learning of Him when they sit in the house, when they walk by the way . . . These latter recognize the blessings that they recieve from Abba without their even having to ask in the assurance that Abba knows them and what they need even before they ask.



bob97 -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/3/2008 11:37:05 PM)

Are we saying Christians are less Christian than they were yesterday? I don't think so…if one loves Christ and we have given our life to Him, how can we deny the Ruach? He lives within us and His goal is to regenerate us unto the Christ and we will be changed in this life or the next.

On the other hand if one denies the Holy Spirit we are denying Christ and one would have to question if we belong to Him at all.

What confuses the issue is the simple fact that only a small fraction of those attending church are really Christians and of course those not belonging certainly deny the Holy Spirit…yesterday, today and tomorrow.

He passed through towns and villages, teaching as he went and making his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, will only a few people be saved?" He answered them, "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough. After the master of the house has arisen and locked the door, then will you stand outside knocking and saying, 'Lord, open the door for us.' He will say to you in reply, 'I do not know where you are from.' And you will say 'We ate and drank in your company and you taught in our streets:' Then he will say to you, 'I do not know where [you] are from. Depart from me all you evildoers!' "


Bob



Little_1 -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/4/2008 6:00:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

Are we saying Christians are less Christian than they were yesterday? I don't think so…if one loves Christ and we have given our life to Him, how can we deny the Ruach? He lives within us and His goal is to regenerate us unto the Christ and we will be changed in this life or the next.

On the other hand if one denies the Holy Spirit we are denying Christ and one would have to question if we belong to Him at all.

What confuses the issue is the simple fact that only a small fraction of those attending church are really Christians and of course those not belonging certainly deny the Holy Spirit…yesterday, today and tomorrow......

Bob


Bob - if you check out this link - this is what I am meaning:
LINK

[Post edited by mod to fix screen formatting]



bob97 -> RE: Are Christians denying the power of the Holy Spirit? (4/4/2008 11:34:54 AM)

Hi Little 1...

Your testimony is one that few ever realize. If you belong to God, He is always in your life; He is always there caring and providing for your spiritual welfare and physical needs. But if we continue to attempt to manage our own lives it conflicts with the plans of God. We just muddle it all up, the same as Abraham did with Ishmael…he just couldn’t wait for a child and tried to accomplish Gods plan by him self.

Once we totally give our life to God and trust in His grace our life changes completely…no fear, worry and He will provide for all our needs. We have to learn to be aware and see God working in our lives, to many people think their good fortune is just luck or their own endeavor. It almost seems to be a blindness caused by God and only the strength of our faith allows us to see the true nature of God in our lives.

I can just testify that totally giving myself to His grace has completely changed my life.

Bob



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