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Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited?
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Total Votes : 64
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(last vote on : 4/24/2008 5:00:34 PM)
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 7:54:22 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 603
Joined: 7/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Good grief, martyrfan, I made one statement, and you took dragged it down the rabbit hole. It's off topic.
You made an uninformed comment. I corrected your uninformed comment. I am sure, that as a Christian, it horrifies you that you would make a public comment that was misleading. But you are not the main person I was talking about. After all, you did not explicitly claim that the Vatican makes money off the poor.
I honestly don't see why you have such a problem with my answer. After all, isn't the truth suppossed to be important for Christians? If you say something that is wrong, wouldn't you want to be corrected?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 8:24:52 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
I for one am disheartened that the Pope came and not because he is Catholic, not because he is the pope. I am disheartened by his visit because it has brought out in "christians" the reason that it took me so long to come to the Church after my absense. In my days in the desert of faith I looked at these "Christians" that claimed to be extending their love even to an unsaved sinner such as i was and i knew it to be a bunch of lies because these people can't even extend love to other Christians because they have gotten wrapped up in a big doctrinal game of "I know you are but what am I". I know for a fact that nothing is more damaging to attracting the poor lost souls of the world than to let them see us fighting and being that they are looking in from the outside, unblemished by the doctrinal biases that we all suffer from, they see plainly that each side casts half truths and outright lies. These lies are then retold by the "believers" who accept them as whole truths because they can not bear to be wrong and would rather be right than to heal the rift in the Christian Church. I would ask that we all take a time out and at the very least recognize our biases so that we may be more likely to recognize when we are accepting something as fact regardless of the validity of the claim just to be right but that would be a foolish request since having really looked at it from the outside and sought through numerous churches looking for my home I know without a doubt that for the vast majority of the "christians" out there it isn't about Truth, it is about being right at all costs.
Jesus said that they (the world) would know we are His disciples by how much we love each other. But instead He finds His Church quibbling over words and with an "I'm more saved than you!" attitude. Self-righteousness never saved the Pharisees and I don't think Christian self-righteousness is any better. Jesus always preached humility.
Self-righteous Christians have done more to lead people away from the faith than to it!
If just proclaiming the name of Jesus was enough to save oneself then Jesus wouldn't have said what He sid in Matthew 7:21-23 which Paul reiterated so eloquently in 1 Cor. Chapter 13.
Get off your high horse people and back on your knees!!!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 9:19:04 AM
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Closie
Posts: 299
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
I always thought bashing another Christian's denomination was against the TOS of this site or does that only apply to certain denominations or non-denominations. (That word always makes me laugh, especially when it is followed by the word Christian. An oxymoron if I've ever heard one.)
This type of behavior always gives new meaning to the Jesus' words "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:35
Guess it only applies to Protestant denominations. How sad that something brings pleasure and some degree of comfort to our Christian brethren can't simply happen without negative comments from those who call themselves Christian.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 9:39:51 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 603
Joined: 7/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Does it matter? It's really kind of petty. Just sayin' 
Not really if you consider the mode of travel and life of those the pope is supposedly descended from... Surely the "holy father" has been granted his rewards on earth given he lives like a king...
John
Would you say the same thing about Billy Graham? He certainly hasn't taken a vow of poverty? He lives a pretty extravagent lifestyle, compared to most of the world.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 10:02:35 AM
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Closie
Posts: 299
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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A martyr would have to be one who was wounded for a cause....since I'm a member of a church aligned with the Southern Baptist Convention, don't see how I could be a martyr.
Perhaps I was typing too quickly and my words didn't come out right. I didn't mean to question anyone's salvation. That is between each person and God. My point that those of us who proclaim Christ as a Savior - whether we align with the Baptist church (who could have many different thoughts), the Methodist church, or the Catholic church - are all citizens of the Lord. Comments that don't show love to brethren, in this context, are really not consistent with the behavior we should be showing them.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 10:06:21 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
I always thought bashing another Christian's denomination was against the TOS of this site or does that only apply to certain denominations or non-denominations. (That word always makes me laugh, especially when it is followed by the word Christian. An oxymoron if I've ever heard one.)
This type of behavior always gives new meaning to the Jesus' words "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:35
Guess it only applies to Protestant denominations. How sad that something brings pleasure and some degree of comfort to our Christian brethren can't simply happen without negative comments from those who call themselves Christian.
Wow! You play the martyr, and then you question the salvation of those who argue against you. That is not helping the discussion. 
Is that like questioning whether our Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ are "saved"?????
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 10:14:39 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 603
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
A martyr would have to be one who was wounded for a cause....since I'm a member of a church aligned with the Southern Baptist Convention, don't see how I could be a martyr.
Perhaps I was typing too quickly and my words didn't come out right. I didn't mean to question anyone's salvation. That is between each person and God. My point that those of us who proclaim Christ as a Savior - whether we align with the Baptist church (who could have many different thoughts), the Methodist church, or the Catholic church - are all citizens of the Lord. Comments that don't show love to brethren, in this context, are really not consistent with the behavior we should be showing them.
Thank you Closie for your comments.
As Christians, we are called to "speak the truth, in love". Love, thus requires a concern for truth. There are certainly many things that Catholics and others can legitamitely argue about, and hopefully the argument is guided on both sides by a concern for truth. However, when people make claims and then neither substantiate them, nor apologize for them, I think it is quite reasonable to question that person's concern for the truth.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 10:56:23 AM
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jbow
Posts: 629
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Good grief, martyrfan, I made one statement, and you took dragged it down the rabbit hole. It's off topic.
You made an uninformed comment. I corrected your uninformed comment. I am sure, that as a Christian, it horrifies you that you would make a public comment that was misleading. But you are not the main person I was talking about. After all, you did not explicitly claim that the Vatican makes money off the poor.
I honestly don't see why you have such a problem with my answer. After all, isn't the truth suppossed to be important for Christians? If you say something that is wrong, wouldn't you want to be corrected?
That would be me.
You are right that many of these things are hard to prove because the Vatican will not open it's books. There are the allegations of laundered nazi wealth stolen from jews. There is all the wealth that came into the catholic church in the middle ages, not to mention the reports of about 150 million people, (protestants), tortured and killed in the midle ages.
So, I apologize for stating things as facts that I cannot prove. I do not want to do that but I still believe them to be true, that is my opinion.
I will continue to research but I don't expect to find concrete evidence because they would not leave it out there for all to see, sometimes you have to read between the lines.
In any case the truth will one day be known. Until then I will have my opinions and will have no use for a pope or for the strange teachings of the RC.
Again, to the OP... no I am not excited, I am poped out. I'll be happy when he goes away.
On the "all pope all the time news" yesterday I saw a street interview with a young lady about why she wanted to see the pope parade. I thought it was really sad. She thinks that the pope has some kind of magical powers. She actually said that she hoped seeing him would give her faith and make her want to go back to church... it sounds like idolatry to me.
In all this, I mean no offense to you personally. I believe that there are Christians in the catholic church but I do not view the pope as a Christian leader.
As far as all the art. I see no justification for keeping it when it could be sold and he money used to help. (No, I am not Judas and neither is the catholic church Jesus). It, the art, will all be burned up one day anyway. All of it's value will then be lost. It does not become a church to hold great wealth.
J
< Message edited by jbow -- 4/17/2008 11:26:51 AM >
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 12:06:33 PM
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mcleod
Posts: 1068
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
And what Protestants were there in the Middle Ages? Everything I have read says the Middle Ages *ended* with the Protestant Reformation
Please say it ain't so. If it was such a lovely time in the human history and the RCC was pure. Why did God allow all of those plagues to happen?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 12:14:43 PM
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kielbasa
Posts: 166
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
quote:
And what Protestants were there in the Middle Ages? Everything I have read says the Middle Ages *ended* with the Protestant Reformation
Please say it ain't so. If it was such a lovely time in the human history and the RCC was pure. Why did God allow all of those plagues to happen?
An interesting question.
Another interesting question: If the Reformation was such a wonderful thing, why did God allow Bubonic plague to continue until the 19th century? Surely with all the Protestant purification, it should have stopped--no?
Methinks we are getting off topic, though.
_____________________________
"This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 12:35:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Self-righteous Christians have done more to lead people away from the faith than to it!
You have a verse to support this claim? I see it posted a lot and never supported with scripture...
John
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 1:10:07 PM
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mcleod
Posts: 1068
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
Another interesting question: If the Reformation was such a wonderful thing, why did God allow Bubonic plague to continue until the 19th century? Surely with all the Protestant purification, it should have stopped--no?
I have never once has it came out of my mouth that prostantent were the great light. But you have people in your great organization who utterly have had that anyone who is not a part of you way or thinking is a heretic.
Which had your popes in your earlier history which began in 325 A.D. Oh wait 1500's, which also sudden you can come up with a leader of your church. Going around and killing human beings in the name of the Lord.
So tell me is that the ways in which God would have us to live our lifes?
I was watching on EWTN last night as your pope was addressing the bishops. Which I because he talks very quiet and with an accent. Found it very hard to understand what he was saying. To the responce to those priest who he said he was ashame of. He in no such manner mention how your church was going to discipline the bad ones.
I know that you have paid out some money in regards to it. But what has happen to them who have done this?
I hear that still one is still tending the flock in Los Angeles.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 1:27:32 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 603
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
That would be me.
You are right that many of these things are hard to prove because the Vatican will not open it's books. There are the allegations of laundered nazi wealth stolen from jews. There is all the wealth that came into the catholic church in the middle ages, not to mention the reports of about 150 million people, (protestants), tortured and killed in the midle ages.
So, I apologize for stating things as facts that I cannot prove. I do not want to do that but I still believe them to be true, that is my opinion.
I will continue to research but I don't expect to find concrete evidence because they would not leave it out there for all to see, sometimes you have to read between the lines.
In any case the truth will one day be known. Until then I will have my opinions and will have no use for a pope or for the strange teachings of the RC.
Again, to the OP... no I am not excited, I am poped out. I'll be happy when he goes away.
On the "all pope all the time news" yesterday I saw a street interview with a young lady about why she wanted to see the pope parade. I thought it was really sad. She thinks that the pope has some kind of magical powers. She actually said that she hoped seeing him would give her faith and make her want to go back to church... it sounds like idolatry to me.
In all this, I mean no offense to you personally. I believe that there are Christians in the catholic church but I do not view the pope as a Christian leader.
As far as all the art. I see no justification for keeping it when it could be sold and he money used to help. (No, I am not Judas and neither is the catholic church Jesus). It, the art, will all be burned up one day anyway. All of it's value will then be lost. It does not become a church to hold great wealth.
J
I accept your apology. I am happy to help you with your sanctification  .
As to your 150 million protestants killed by the pope, can you provide a citation of where you got your data? As has already been addressed, the number seems quite high. It would seem to suggest that you tend to take anything negative you hear about the Catholic Church at face value. I think the body of Christ would be much better off if we developed some better critical thinking skills.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 1:52:13 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Self-righteous Christians have done more to lead people away from the faith than to it!
You have a verse to support this claim? I see it posted a lot and never supported with scripture...
John
Since there were no self-righteous Christians in the time of Jesus I will let you read what he told the self-righteous religious people of His time - the Pharisees. Matthew 23:13-33.
Then read the admonitions from Paul about creating divisions among Christians:
Romans 12:10-21
1 Corinthians 1:10
1 Corinthians 3:1-9
Ephesians 4:1-5
John 13:35 tells us what Jesus said how true Christians will be recognized by the world.
The will of the Father is that we love God with all our heart mind and soul and our neighbor (Jesus included our enemies in this definition) as ourselves.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 2:11:14 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 603
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Self-righteous Christians have done more to lead people away from the faith than to it!
You have a verse to support this claim? I see it posted a lot and never supported with scripture...
John
How does some of the preposterous allegations that are leveled on this forum build up the body of Christ? If a non-Christian sees someone bitterly make a preposterous accusation (such as the idea that the Pope had 150 million protestants killed in the middle ages) against another Christian, how does that shine the light of the truth of the Gospel into their hearts?
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 5:57:48 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 1320
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
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The Senate passed a resolution applauding the Pope for many things, but the resolution was not without controversy. The original version had the following passages removed at the insistence of Barbara Boxer and apparently some other Democrats. Recall that Boxer is the Senator who argued during the partial birth abortion debate that a baby with any part of her body still within her mother, head, finger, toe, that it should be legal to butcher her.
The offending passages:
"...Pope Benedict XVI has spoken out for the weak and vulnerable, witnessing to the value of each and every human life."
"...has spoken approvingly of the vibrance of religious faith in the United States, a faith nourished by a constitutional commitment to religious liberty that neither attempts to strip our public spaces of religious expression nor denies the ultimate source of our rights and liberties."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0408/Pope_resolution_stalled_over_human_life_language.html
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 6:12:00 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3463
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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He had some really cool red shoes.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Pope Benedict XVI in America. Are you excited? - 4/17/2008 6:31:48 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Self-righteous Christians have done more to lead people away from the faith than to it!
You have a verse to support this claim? I see it posted a lot and never supported with scripture...
John
Since there were no self-righteous Christians in the time of Jesus I will let you read what he told the self-righteous religious people of His time - the Pharisees. Matthew 23:13-33.
Then read the admonitions from Paul about creating divisions among Christians:
Romans 12:10-21
1 Corinthians 1:10
1 Corinthians 3:1-9
Ephesians 4:1-5
John 13:35 tells us what Jesus said how true Christians will be recognized by the world.
The will of the Father is that we love God with all our heart mind and soul and our neighbor (Jesus included our enemies in this definition) as ourselves.
You still need to find support for your claim....
Btw... Peter was a very self-righteous Christian and Paul called him on it...
John
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