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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/13/2008 1:25:33 AM
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pmilst
Posts: 60
Joined: 2/22/2008
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Your 'God' might have stopped miracles at some point in the past, but 'My
God' is inclined to heal at His desire. Read carefully this testimony-- because if you deny this testimony, you deny the work of God; then in denying that it is God's work, you must attribute the work to some other entity, that is dangerous ground.
About 20 years ago I was suffering agonizing generalized back pain that was so severe that I was about to give up significant physical labor. I had just recently, through personal Bible study, come to believe in all the
Gifts of the Spirit including Healing. Late one night ( 1 or 2 am), I was sitting in my swivel chair in the Den of my home in severe pain when it dawned upon me to simply ask God to heal my back. I stood up, looked up and asked, "Lord, I believe you heal, please heal my back". At that moment and for approximately the next 10 minutes my joints started audibily popping. My bilateral elbows popped, my bilateral shoulders popped, my back popped, my bilateral hips popped, and both knees popped. Afterward, I was immediately pain free and remained pain free
for many years. That night, I praised God for being such a good God.
I don't fully understand why on that given night it happened, but I know
that God heals today. Nobody can make me believe differently.
It is time for you to honestly rethink what you believe. Healing is the product of the Spirit of God. Believe it and be blessed, deny it and
live very cautiously. God bless your discernment of thought.
< Message edited by pmilst -- 5/14/2008 2:39:25 PM >
_____________________________
1 Cor. 2: 9-10 "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit..."
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/13/2008 2:56:20 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 587
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Thank you Pmilst, for that testimony. That sounds a lot like the Betty Baxter story. Have you ever heard of her? I met her and heard her testimony of healing. She has documented proof from doctors of her healing. These doctors could not explain her healing by any natural means.
Believing that Christ can still do miracles, can still heal the sick, takes faith of a supernatural kind. And because there are charlatans out there, many are tempted to discount healings and miracles altogether.
However, when Christ has personally touched us in this way, nothing that the naysayers "say" can change what we already know to be true.
Heavendweller
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/13/2008 3:32:37 PM
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pmilst
Posts: 60
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Heavendweller
Thank you Pmilst, for that testimony. That sounds a lot like the Betty Baxter story. Have you ever heard of her? I met her and heard her testimony of healing. She has documented proof from doctors of her healing. These doctors could not explain her healing by any natural means.
Believing that Christ can still do miracles, can still heal the sick, takes faith of a supernatural kind. And because there are charlatans out there, many are tempted to discount healings and miracles altogether.
However, when Christ has personally touched us in this way, nothing that the naysayers "say" can change what we already know to be true.
Heavendweller
Have not heard of the Betty Baxter testimony, would be interested to hear
or read the story.
Charlatans abound, and many will come in Jesus name or claiming to be Jesus himself as the time of His coming approaches. Some will always be fooled by the sensational. Thanks, heavendweller for reading and commenting on the testimony. May God have the glory, it was His Spirit of Power.
_____________________________
1 Cor. 2: 9-10 "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit..."
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/14/2008 10:34:22 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pmilst
Your 'God' might have stopped miracles at some point in the past, but 'My
God' is inclined to heal at His desire. Read carefully this testimony-- because if you deny this testimony, you deny the work of God; then in denying that it is God's work, you must attribute the work to some other entity, that is dangerous ground.
God bless you discernment of thought.
Questioning a testimony is not denying the work of God. Testimony is anecdotal evidence. "Generalized back pain" is not a medical diagnosis. What was actually wrong with your back? I don't doubt you got better.
But many faithful, miracle-believing Christians pray for healing just as desperately and do not receive healing. Why did you get better and they didn't? Did you pray harder or better?
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/14/2008 12:39:47 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
cow,
Only God knows why some are healed and some are not. It has nothing to do with amount of faith. Consider that whatever God does, He does for His purposes. People who receive healing receive it because God has a plan that is helped by that testimony. It may be for the spiritual benefit of the person healed or for someone else that encounters that person. It may be for both or any number of other people, but the simple fact is that God can and does heal for His own purposes.
Then why pray for a miracle at all? Miraculous things happen every day to Christian and non-Christian alike.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/14/2008 12:40:17 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 587
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Questioning a testimony is not denying the work of God. Testimony is anecdotal evidence. "Generalized back pain" is not a medical diagnosis. What was actually wrong with your back? I don't doubt you got better.
But many faithful, miracle-believing Christians pray for healing just as desperately and do not receive healing. Why did you get better and they didn't? Did you pray harder or better?
Dear cow,
Why and when God chooses to heal some and not others is not for us to say. The point being made is that God still does do miracles and still heals today. And yes, sometimes He works with modern medicine and technology. Other times, however, He heals directly without the intervention of a doctor or modern medicine.
Jesus is many things, the Great Shepherd, the King of Kings, the Paschal Lamb, the Alphan and Omega, the list is endless. And one of the things He still is, is the Great Physician, the Healer. He heals us inwardly and spiritually and He heals us of our diseases and sicknesses.
I am not a WoF believer, so I don't subscribe to that mindset. However, I will not strip God of His power by believing or teaching that He cannot heal or do miracles in the present day and age.
I suppose this debate could/will/has gone on without an end in sight (until the Lord returns). I take comfort in knowing that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. And just as He healed people while walking the earth, He can heal now that He is seated at the right hand of God the Father.
God bless you in your walk with Christ.
Heavendweller
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/14/2008 2:30:12 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Then why pray for a miracle at all? Miraculous things happen every day to Christian and non-Christian alike.
Well shucks, how about because God tell us to do so through the writings of James;
(James 5; 14,15) Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven
And not listening to and being obedient to the instructions of Jesus;
Luke 6:46) "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?
To refuse to do so (ask for miracles) would indicate the person has no right to call Jesus Christ their LORD.
I would certainly hope you do not fall under this catagory.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/14/2008 3:01:24 PM
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pmilst
Posts: 60
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: pmilst
Your 'God' might have stopped miracles at some point in the past, but 'My
God' is inclined to heal at His desire. Read carefully this testimony-- because if you deny this testimony, you deny the work of God; then in denying that it is God's work, you must attribute the work to some other entity, that is dangerous ground.
God bless you discernment of thought.
Questioning a testimony is not denying the work of God. Testimony is anecdotal evidence. "Generalized back pain" is not a medical diagnosis. What was actually wrong with your back? I don't doubt you got better.
But many faithful, miracle-believing Christians pray for healing just as desperately and do not receive healing. Why did you get better and they didn't? Did you pray harder or better?
If you read my testimony, you see that I wonder myself why that happened on that night. I did feel compelled to ask for that healing and the healing was granted by his gracious Spirit. I have asked for healing on other occasions and none have happened. But the idea that it graciously happened shows that God continues to heal today. I have a wonderful friend who has lost her husband to colon ca and her daughter to ovarian ca. I am sure that similar prayers issued from her mouth, but seemingly nothing happened. Can't explain those things. I work as a registered nurse on the med/surg floor of my local hospital and see significant suffering on a daily basis and know of numerous times when
believers have asked for healing, but to no avail. My only point, is that God does Heal today; when, and under what circumstances that happens is not under my control.
< Message edited by pmilst -- 5/14/2008 3:21:56 PM >
_____________________________
1 Cor. 2: 9-10 "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit..."
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/14/2008 3:13:47 PM
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pmilst
Posts: 60
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rcjames, I like your "style", even more so, I like your adherance to the healing teachings of the Word of God.
_____________________________
1 Cor. 2: 9-10 "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit..."
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/14/2008 4:02:56 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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I'm sorry, I haven't read all of this thread, but I figure I'll throw in my two cents and see where they land...
I don't see any reason to doubt that God still accomplishes miracles today. Not just healing, either. I believe God will, if He so chooses, supernaturally orchestrate events to better glorify His name. There have been many instances, especially while on things like Missions Trips, that things have fallen into place so perfectly that either I need to start playing the lottery (in other words, the chances would be astronomical), or God's hand was actively at work.
I'm still uncertain about whether specific "healers" are genuine or not, though I am pretty sure things are not happening today like they were for the Apostles in the early church period. But however God is working, He is doing wonderful things for His kingdom.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/16/2008 12:57:48 AM
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gmc4Jesus
Posts: 229
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
I'm sorry, I haven't read all of this thread, but I figure I'll throw in my two cents and see where they land...
I don't see any reason to doubt that God still accomplishes miracles today. Not just healing, either. I believe God will, if He so chooses, supernaturally orchestrate events to better glorify His name. There have been many instances, especially while on things like Missions Trips, that things have fallen into place so perfectly that either I need to start playing the lottery (in other words, the chances would be astronomical), or God's hand was actively at work.
I'm still uncertain about whether specific "healers" are genuine or not, though I am pretty sure things are not happening today like they were for the Apostles in the early church period. But however God is working, He is doing wonderful things for His kingdom.
I agree completely. I have observed situations and talked to people who could only attribute their event to a miracle. However, I question whether some "miracle services" actually have real, verifyable miracles.
I am yet to see someone do a miracle like the Apostles did.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/16/2008 1:12:47 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1834
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quote:
Then why pray for a miracle at all? Miraculous things happen every day to Christian and non-Christian alike.
Generally in answer to believing prayer.
"Ye have not because ye ask not" and "To him that believeth, all things are possible". So get on your knees and ask the Almighty.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/16/2008 8:36:05 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
Then why pray for a miracle at all? Miraculous things happen every day to Christian and non-Christian alike.
Generally in answer to believing prayer.
"Ye have not because ye ask not" and "To him that believeth, all things are possible". So get on your knees and ask the Almighty.
Good post Ezra.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/16/2008 2:27:53 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 587
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
quote:
Then why pray for a miracle at all? Miraculous things happen every day to Christian and non-Christian alike.
Generally in answer to believing prayer.
"Ye have not because ye ask not" and "To him that believeth, all things are possible". So get on your knees and ask the Almighty.
I do think that the whole matter of whether or not God can/does miracles and healings today falls under the category of belief or the lack thereof. Many missionaries have spoken on their experiences in other countries in which they have witnessed God's miracles and healings in an abundant measure.
Perhaps the unbelief which exists within the Westernized world has crept within the Western Christian Church as well. What do ya think?
Heavendweller
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/16/2008 7:47:48 PM
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JesKlu
Posts: 552
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Heavendweller
quote:
Then why pray for a miracle at all? Miraculous things happen every day to Christian and non-Christian alike.
Generally in answer to believing prayer.
"Ye have not because ye ask not" and "To him that believeth, all things are possible". So get on your knees and ask the Almighty.
quote:
I do think that the whole matter of whether or not God can/does miracles and healings today falls under the category of belief or the lack thereof. Many missionaries have spoken on their experiences in other countries in which they have witnessed God's miracles and healings in an abundant measure.
Perhaps the unbelief which exists within the Westernized world has crept within the Western Christian Church as well. What do ya think?
Heavendweller
Hello Heavendweller!
The unbelief in miracles, I think, stems from all these false "miracles" that happen in the WoF movement. But, at the same time, I do not doubt that God can do miracles. But there is such an abuse of them, and this cannot be denied. It's the same with tongues. They're around, but there is so much abuse surrounding them that it is hard to distinguish between truth and lie.
So, I believe in miracles. But I totally get upset when all these "so-called miracles" are performed by these false teachers. I think that is where a lot of Christians are starting to doubt if miracles even happen anymore.
It's because of these false teachers that many are doubting, but we shouldn't be discouraged.
Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica
< Message edited by JesKlu -- 5/16/2008 7:58:19 PM >
_____________________________
And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/20/2008 11:46:10 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
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Evangelist, once paralyzed in a car wreck and wheelchair bound, is healed by Jesus and has preached and ministered for thirty years. Definitely a miracle. LINK
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/20/2008 11:59:28 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Evangelist, once paralyzed in a car wreck and wheelchair bound, is healed by Jesus and has preached and ministered for thirty years. Definitely a miracle. LINK
And your point is?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/20/2008 3:07:42 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Evangelist, once paralyzed in a car wreck and wheelchair bound, is healed by Jesus and has preached and ministered for thirty years. Definitely a miracle. LINK
And your point is?
Thanks
RC
The difficulty with anecdotal reports of miracles. Do you believe he was miraculously healed?
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/20/2008 3:14:23 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The difficulty with anecdotal reports of miracles. Do you believe he was miraculously healed?
I have no idea if he was miraculously healed or not. I do know that miraculous healings do take place.
But posting a trash peice about someone does not sway me to think that God did not heal him.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/20/2008 3:35:55 PM
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LBolt
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I'm sorry but I've been in services where literal tumors fell off of people, people I know who were confined to wheel chairs were running around the church. I heard a guy who was unable to speak not only get his voice back but was instantly baptized in the Holy Ghost and was speaking in tongues. Just because you may not be seeing or doing this doesn't mean that kind of power is not available to those who are willing to believe God for it and pay a price. There was a lady who body was wracked with AIDS--completely healed with the blood tests to prove it!
So whether one believe it or not does not invalidate that person miracle.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/20/2008 4:52:54 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
I'm sorry but I've been in services where literal tumors fell off of people, people I know who were confined to wheel chairs were running around the church. I heard a guy who was unable to speak not only get his voice back but was instantly baptized in the Holy Ghost and was speaking in tongues. Just because you may not be seeing or doing this doesn't mean that kind of power is not available to those who are willing to believe God for it and pay a price. There was a lady who body was wracked with AIDS--completely healed with the blood tests to prove it!
So whether one believe it or not does not invalidate that person miracle.
My wife tested positive for HIV. Three weeks later she tested negative. Miracle? Hardly. Lab error. Now I could choose to believe she was miraculously healed, tell the story and have people crying in the aisles. But I've worked in healthcare three decades. Lab errors are fairly common. Guy goes to doc, gets lab test. Doc says, "Oh, looks like you've got acute XYZ. Better get you to an XYZologist." Guy goes to church, asks for prayer. Guy goes to XYZologist. Test negative. "Great news. You don't have XYZ. But you do have a bill for $300." Guy goes to church. "Praise the Lord, I've been healed!"
Viruses will remit sometimes for no apparent reason. Tumors will sometimes shrink. People live longer with cancer than doctors "predict". Symptoms get misdiagnosed. Many serious conditions are autoimmune disorders. The autoimmune system is notoriously hard to predict. My friend had an allergic reaction, had horrible rash all over. God "miraculously healed" (her words). She tells the story but leaves out the part about TWO (usually one is enough) rounds of corticosteroids.
Yes, pray for healing. But get good medical care.
Sounds like you go to church with Peter Popoff.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/20/2008 7:25:28 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
My wife tested positive for HIV. Three weeks later she tested negative. Miracle? Hardly. Lab error. Now I could choose to believe she was miraculously healed, tell the story and have people crying in the aisles.
Did your wife call upon the Elders and did they annoint her with oil and pray the prayer of faith?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Miracles are Past - 5/21/2008 9:54:06 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
My wife tested positive for HIV. Three weeks later she tested negative. Miracle? Hardly. Lab error. Now I could choose to believe she was miraculously healed, tell the story and have people crying in the aisles.
Did your wife call upon the Elders and did they annoint her with oil and pray the prayer of faith?
Thanks
RC
No, but we had plenty of prayer requests. BTW, in case you didn't catch it, it turned out to be a lab error, to which the lab readily admitted. The infectious disease specialist we consulted said it happens more than the general public knows. Lesson, on the side, whenever you get bad knews based on diagnostic tests, always get the test repeated, preferably by another lab. Same can be true if a good result doesn't match the physical symptoms. BTW, if treated properly and early, HIV will remit to the point that a negative lab result will occur, which is not the same as a cure. Now, I call that miraculous.
So, to present this case as a "miraculous healing" would be a bold-faced lie.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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