RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (Full Version)

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amybreit -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/4/2008 8:09:48 PM)

quote:

Actually, homeschooling has not just educated my kids; it has also better educated ME ! I have learned things through homeschooling my kids, that I had never learned in my own public school years.
This is something I say ALL the time! There are things that I may have learned & just forgotten, but many things I KNOW we never covered when I was in school! And there have been times when a different way of teaching (than I was taught) has made things clear to me that I never really understood in school.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/4/2008 8:19:49 PM)

quote:

I know of about 2 children from two different households who have not seemed to have done well. This is a very low percentage. One child was being supervised by a mother that seemed a bit "green" (low I.Q).

I am sorry but that statement just perturbs me...the mother's IQ has nothing to do with her ability or lack of it to teach her kids. I know genius level people that can't teach their kids...because they aren't choosing the methods that work for their kids or they aren't choosing to do anything. IQ has nothing to do with it though. Even those that are mentally handicapped and truly have a very very low IQ have something to teach others.



PrincessDonna -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/5/2008 8:16:21 AM)

quote:

In situations like these, when the kids return to public school and are behind, it does give homeschooling a bad rap. However, for those parents who are mentally stable and who decide to stick it out and let nothing hinder them, homeschooling produces great results.


And then there are parents who do fine academically and then end up butting heads too often with their child. My little boy went to Christian school in January this year (2nd grade) because he was giving me constant attitude that I found difficult to deal with on top of dealing with an almost 3 and almost 1 year old siblings. He was ahead in several areas, only really struggles in one and I believe it is a change of curriculum issue. He made a 92 average for his first quarter, one point short of being on high honor.

Academically, hsing was fine for this child, and we may return to it again someday. But for now, he needed other things I wasn't able to give him at home. We still plan to hs our other children.

I doubt many people will talk about the wonders of hsing and this child though. They'd rather hear about the parents who aren't schooling their children and then they end up behind and in a regular school setting. Those are the ones that stick out in their minds, not those who did fine, or even excelled in a school setting.



crownlaurel -> RE: what makes you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/5/2008 8:54:03 AM)

You're welcome to share this with your friend...

I have a degree. It isn't an education degree but I did take 20 quarter hours of education classes. I made A's in those classes and my education major friends barely scraped by with low C's. When I graduated (magna cum laude) a year late because I switched majors and added minors, some of my education major friends were taking their certification tests during this time and some had to repeat the tests three or more times just to pass it. Those people are in classrooms now teaching other people's children. I recently went to take the certification test to put me on the road to alternative certification (a five year cert while I take the education classes to complete that area). I was able to exempt the basic skills test because of my (ancient...I graduated college in 1994) college GPA and SAT scores, so I took the subject area test in Spanish. At the test, I again heard people discussing having to take the tests multiple times to pass. I worried that my off time from studying might affect my scores, but I got my scores last week. They won't give me a numbered score but on a scale of 0 to 4 plus signs for each part of the test, I scored 4 on all but one part where I scored a 3. The only reason I would even need to go back to college to take education classes is because it would be required to be in a classroom (I am considering entering a classrooms to teach elementary or middle school Spanish, but since I didn't get eth charter school position I applied for, I'm waiting awhile longer).

I graduated with honors from a public high school. When I left public school, I could not read a map, count change, or grasp why our country's history was so important. I went to college to be the first one in my family to do so and because I won scholarships to go to college, but I hated learning. I worked in a biology lab as part of my work study in college and I learned fascinating things about biology, even though I fully intended to fulfill my science requirements with the easier geology track. I learned how to read a map by getting lost over and over for several years. I learned how to count change by working in a college post office and later in retail. I learned a great deal about history in college from professors who had a passion for the subject and later by reading and researching and teaching my children. Somewhere along the line I learned how to question everything and look up things that sparked my interest. I learned that learning itself was fun and I learned to love learning...which is the one subject that public school in its current state fails to teach.

I can converse with medical professionals because I learned a great deal growing up with a brother with Spina Bifida. I could probably pass entry level written nursing exams. I'm qualified to bandage my children's booboos and question their doctors about their symptoms. I'm qualified to decide what constitutes a medical emergency and what to monitor them for and call a nursing line instead of rushing to the hospital.

I can speak to people from much of Mexico, Central and South America because I am completely fluent in Spanish. Although my education helped launch me into the basics of the language I didn't gain fluency until a few years after I put it in practice. I am qualified to teach chldren and adults both English and Spanish privately and according to my tests scores, in a public school with provisional certification.

There are some truly exceptional teachers in public schools and I respect them a lot. There are charter schools that are taking different approaches to teaching and are seeing wonderful results. There are some benefits of public school that I wish I could provide my children. I don't feel qualified to teach my children higher levels of art or music or sports and my physical limitations are preventing the kinds of outings we used to have (though we had the opportunity to go to the grand opening of a local Gold Mine Museum and had a great time learning about our state's forgotten Gold Rush, which was a huge learning experience for me because I am from the town claimed as the country's first old Rush before discoveries were made in our current town).

Anyone who isn't an expert in any subject can find expert materials either by buying or by finding free internet sites. Many homeschool curricula walk the parent/teacher through the process and give step by step learning resources. One on one instruction offers an opportunity to tailor the education based on individual learning styles, needs and interests whereas in a classroom, education is generally aimed at the middle level and one basic learning style so that the average student succeeds while the remedial student fails and the above average student is bored to death (I say general because as stated above there are some excellent schools and programs...but this is generally the norm).

In the end is it really about qualifications? Should I prefer to let someone who struggled through classes and barely passed certification after 4 or 5 tries over myself because I don't have an education degree? Am I (or anyone, really) less qualified because my paper doesn't read "Bachelor's of Education?" Even though I am reasonably convinced I could make sure they received an adecuate education in public schools by being involved and supplementing what they could be taught, I am my children's best chance for success and anything else would be less than ideal. Again, there are excellent teachers but even excellent teachers cannot reach the full potential of all 20-30 children all the time.

A child who learns to love learning will not miss out on any opportunity because he/she will follow their interests and seek knowledge. A child who has sat in a classroom bored out of his mind for 12 years being handed facts and figures and problems and answers might miss opportunities because he hates learning.



hillbillywoman -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/5/2008 11:11:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2

quote:

I know of about 2 children from two different households who have not seemed to have done well. This is a very low percentage. One child was being supervised by a mother that seemed a bit "green" (low I.Q).

I am sorry but that statement just perturbs me...the mother's IQ has nothing to do with her ability or lack of it to teach her kids. I know genius level people that can't teach their kids...because they aren't choosing the methods that work for their kids or they aren't choosing to do anything. IQ has nothing to do with it though. Even those that are mentally handicapped and truly have a very very low IQ have something to teach others.


I did not, in any way, indicate that a mentally handicapped person cannot teach his or her kids anything. I just told about a real-life, true situation with this one mentally handicapped woman who tried to homeschool without realizing what all would be involved in the process. I talked to this woman personally, on the phone, sent her information about various resources, etc, and tried to help her all I could, but it was just too much for her to do alone. Perhaps if she would have had a husband at home to help, it would have made a difference. Perhaps if I or another homeschooling family had lived close by, it would have helped. But, the situaltion being what it was, this mother just was not able to homeschool her child, and the child was forced to return to public school.

In no way did I indicate that a person had to be a genius to homeschool. I do believe, however, that a person of average intelligence should have no problem if they are determined to see it through.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/5/2008 12:59:57 PM)

quote:

In no way did I indicate that a person had to be a genius to homeschool. I do believe, however, that a person of average intelligence should have no problem if they are determined to see it through.

and in that statement right there you are judging those of "lower intelligence" and saying that while those of average intelligence can and those of genius intelligence can, that those of lower intelligence can't adequately HS. I don't agree. Intelligence is intelligence....that's all it is...it in no way limits you from teaching others...whether it is low, average, or high.

quote:

But, the situaltion being what it was, this mother just was not able to homeschool her child, and the child was forced to return to public school.

that may be true...and HSing may not have been for her, but you made a point of saying that she had a low IQ, thus making it sound like that was the reason for her failure in hsing....when it wasn't. It has nothing to do with whether she can or can't hs...it's all about her own attitude, fortitude, personality, the personalities of her kids, etc. There are many many resources out there to tap into that obviously she didn't tap into....but again, that has nothing to do with her IQ number.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/5/2008 1:37:54 PM)

I struggled in school, I was never a very good student, I never even took the SAT's, becase, as I transferred to my four year college from a community college, I didn't have to. My college algebra teacher, because I struggled in his class, tried to get me to stop being an education major because I wasn't good at math, and he didn't want me to turn kids off to math (although I think it's really people like him that turn kids off to math by being so arrogant and impatient), which I thought was silly of him, cause I only wanted to teach Kindergarten, and really, how much algebra does a Kindergarten student get into, anyway?[8|]

Yet let me tell you, I have nannied 3x times for two homeschooling familes. The first family turned most of the schooling over to me, and you know what? Those kids learned a lot! Why? Because I had been a genius? No. Because I cared about them, walked through the material with them, and was willing to learn along with them if I had to. I also taught at an in home preschool, and at an institutional preschool, and I was quite able to impart the information needed, even though I hadn't been a great student. I also had parents who barely knew me hire me to take care of their kids, for an evening or weekend. Did they ask if I had been a good student, and then make then decision? No. They could simply tell I cared about kids, and would do the right thing by them.

I have also had people practically plop their babies in my lap, when I know there are a lot of parents who don't want anyone holding their babies. Does this have anything to do with what kind of student I was? No, it has to do with the fact they can sense I will do right by their child.



I also tutored an 8th grade girl from my church in math. When her parents approached me, I said, "NO, I only tutor little kids, and I only tutor reading, and I am too much of a math dunce to tutor 8th grade math," and they said, "We don't care, we just want our daughter around you." I kept trying to argue with them, but they wouldn't take no for an answer. Well, I turned out to be able to help her more than I thought I would be able to, we learned together when we had to, and well, I did have the advantage of having my mother, who has a math degree, as a back up (I live at home), but honestly, over the course of the year, I think we only went to my mom about three times. Sometimes I felt so guilty to be tutoring her, as I really felt it was the blind leading the blind, but you know what? That girl brought her grade from a D to an A. I think she just needed someone to encourage her more than anything.

Being a good student, and being a good, loving, caring, teacher, are two completely different skills. And I really believe that if a parent is already taking the time and energy it takes to homeschool, then they are obviously a parent that cares enough about their child to do right by them, and they will, I believe, do right by them, regardless of IQ, high school records, or whatever.



Sunnymom -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/5/2008 3:54:39 PM)

Maybe instead of using the word 'intelligence', we should use 'common sense'. One can be considered of 'low intelligence' but still have plenty of horse sense, while another can have an IQ equal to the height of the Chrysler Building and not be able to find their toochas with both hands and a flashlight.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the magic element that makes one a good teacher is not based on IQ, but rather those immeasurable qualities of caring and the ability to communicate information.

On a side note, one should also realize that in order to qualify for the education programs that are required for certification, one must have a GPA of 2.5 or higher, as well as an SAT score in the neighborhood of 235 or higher. Colleges differ slightly, but those are the minimums. The 'average' score on the SATs is 500. Many teachers in our schools are what most of the academic elite would consider to be the bottom of the barrel. Again- certification guarantees NOTHING.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/6/2008 1:37:04 AM)

quote:

On a side note, one should also realize that in order to qualify for the education programs that are required for certification, one must have a GPA of 2.5 or higher, as well as an SAT score in the neighborhood of 235 or higher. Colleges differ slightly, but those are the minimums. The 'average' score on the SATs is 500. Many teachers in our schools are what most of the academic elite would consider to be the bottom of the barrel. Again- certification guarantees NOTHING.


That doesn't automatically mean they are bad teachers, though. I really believe if I hadn't gotten sick my senior year of college and had to quit, I would have been an excellent Kindergarten teacher, although I have never been a great student. Again, I just think teaching and being a student are two different skills. The best teachers are the ones who care, not necessarily the ones who got all A's(although they can be great, too). This can be true in a school or in a home school setting.



Sunnymom -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/6/2008 8:32:31 AM)

I understand that- but there is an assumption that certification and higher education=the best and the brightest are teaching kids. That certification makes one an 'expert' or a 'professional educator'. This is simply not true, and it is one of the reasons that the current system of certification isn't effective. It doesn't measure anything except how one does on those courses necessary for an education degree, and one is allowed to certify even if one barely passes the courses. How do you feel when your kid's GPA is 2.5? Wouldn't all the critics be saying that you weren't doing a good job? Even though a 2.5 is a C+?

I guarantee that if a PS parent knew that the person who is teaching their child got a 250 on their SATs, while they are hoping for their child to score over 500, you'd think they'd swallowed a bullfrog.

Obviously we know as HSers that education and learning are not as contingent on advanced degrees as most folks think. We know that simply being able to inspire a child to be curious and creative is quite enough to get them well on their way. But our current education system worships at the Church of the Ivy League College, as if that means something, as if they know exactly what learning looks like and that they can reproduce it over and over again if they just had more money/bigger buildings/more computers/more money.....

Tennessee is going to the hot place in a kerosene-soaked handbasket when it comes to education. Accreditation and certifications are the gods of the educrats. It doesn't matter to them what someone is able to achieve. They want tests and proofs and pieces of paper on which they have placed THEIR Golden Sticker of State Approval.

I definitely need more coffee this morning.[8D]



hillbillywoman -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/6/2008 8:45:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2

quote:

In no way did I indicate that a person had to be a genius to homeschool. I do believe, however, that a person of average intelligence should have no problem if they are determined to see it through.

and in that statement right there you are judging those of "lower intelligence" and saying that while those of average intelligence can and those of genius intelligence can, that those of lower intelligence can't adequately HS. I don't agree. Intelligence is intelligence....that's all it is...it in no way limits you from teaching others...whether it is low, average, or high.

quote:

But, the situaltion being what it was, this mother just was not able to homeschool her child, and the child was forced to return to public school.

that may be true...and HSing may not have been for her, but you made a point of saying that she had a low IQ, thus making it sound like that was the reason for her failure in hsing....when it wasn't. It has nothing to do with whether she can or can't hs...it's all about her own attitude, fortitude, personality, the personalities of her kids, etc. There are many many resources out there to tap into that obviously she didn't tap into....but again, that has nothing to do with her IQ number.


You are reading more into my statement than what was intended. Now who is judging who?



cynthia -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/6/2008 9:12:45 PM)

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principled -> RE: what makes you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/7/2008 5:50:17 AM)

You know, when I was working toward my education degree, I actually ran into a problem because I was earning too many credits in my area of concentration. There is a maximum (at least there was in my program) to how many hours you can take in your specialty field.

But really, I think in the case of your friend, the best is probably what you've done. Tell her what you know and offer some studies, but most people are not swayed until they have some personal experience. I don't really see the relevance of most of these concerns until high school, anyway.

I wish I had the link, but there has been research demonstrating that the effectiveness of teachers in elementary classrooms had more to do with personality traits than their own education which makes perfect sense. Certification and grades in their majors became more of an issue in high school. Which also makes perfect sense.



sen10tious -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/7/2008 11:00:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

My college algebra teacher, because I struggled in his class, tried to get me to stop being an education major because I wasn't good at math, and he didn't want me to turn kids off to math (although I think it's really people like him that turn kids off to math by being so arrogant and impatient), which I thought was silly of him,

OK - you had some personality issues, but his heart was in the right place.

quote:

...cause I only wanted to teach Kindergarten, and really, how much algebra does a Kindergarten student get into, anyway?[8|]

I think you are on the target but still about one ring out from the bull’s eye on this one. In hindsight, I think nearly all of my elementary teachers had similar attitudes. All my elementary teachers knew how to do basic elementary math. The grown-ups in my life always told me they were good teachers. I accepted that right up until I taught my own. If I had never homeschooled, I would still be living under the delusion that I had good teachers. None of my elementary teachers ever passed along any love for math; they did not have any to spare. They passed along their true attitude though.

By the time my own children were doing fourth grade math, I was developing increasing awareness of how all my “good” teachers had duped me into believing math was as boring as they made it. If I kept a blog, I would go vent now.


But, OneOfHisJewels, I don’t want to leave you feeling annoyed… you more than redeemed yourself in my eyes with this :
quote:

They could simply tell I cared about kids, and would do the right thing by them. [ ... ]
I also tutored an 8th grade girl from my church in math. [ ... ] Well, I turned out to be able to help her more than I thought I would be able to ... you know what? That girl brought her grade from a D to an A. I think she just needed someone to encourage her more than anything.

And therein lay the issues with my (certified) elementary teachers... their personal discouragement in all things math was sown into a new generation because they had "classroom attitude." In your case, you had a one-on-one relationship that overcame it.



zoebob -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/7/2008 11:05:07 AM)

t is a good point about elementary teachers passing on an annoyance for math. I would disagree that elementary teachers don't need to know algebra or understand their math. My mom teaches high school math and she has lots of kids that come up and don't really understand their elementary math so they can't apply it to high school level work. They've been taught general concepts but they don't really understand it because their teachers didn't. My college actually taught a class called "Math for the Elementary Education Teacher". THe teacher was good at math and she taught the why's and background for a lot of elementary math. It went beyond doing the problems and taught why we do what we do in basic math.



cynthia -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/7/2008 11:58:20 AM)

We use Math-U-See. I love this program, because it clearly shows the why of math, not only the how.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/7/2008 12:13:52 PM)

But I wasn't turned off to math by teachers who weren't good at math. I was turned off to it by teachers who were so good at it that they had NO PATIENCE with me. And for the record, I worked my tail off in that college class, didn't pass it, and took it again, once again working my tail off, doing all the homework, having a friend tutor me, taking it with a good teacher the next time, and I did fine the second time around. I really think some students NEED teachers who UNDERSTAND struggling. Although I didn't get to finish college and teach Kindergarten, I have taught preschool, and not to say it boastfully, but I got math (and other) concepts across VERY WELL.

And that first college algebra teacher DID NOT have his heart in the right place. If you knew the whole story, and knew how he treated people all the way through, you would know that. He was very verbally cruel all the way through. We used to joke he needed to take "Introduction to Teaching," so that he knew how to treat people.

I don't know, I'm surprised (and hurt) to all of a sudden be so judged in the homeschooling folder of all places. If I was married with children of my own, and thinking about homeschooling, in spite of having some areas I'm not so great in, I know I would still be being encouraged to homeschool because "I (would) know my kids better than anybody, you care about them the most, etc." And, I did always promise myself that if/when I homeschooled, I would bring in math tutors when necessary. Yet, when it comes to other people's kids, it doesn't seem (at least all of a sudden in this folder), that caring counts (and I never planned to teach anything above lower elementary). You guys don't know me in real life, you haven't seen how I am with kids, and how just about every kid I've ever worked with(really the only exception was one fourteen year old boy who came to the after school part of the day care, but that had nothing to do with academics (he didn't bring his homework there) anyway, he was a troubled kid from a troubled home, and teenage boys aren't my forte, but I digress), I've been successful with them, their parents have loved me, and told me I was phenomenal with them. Part of this was because I remembered teachers NOT treating me kindly, and I made an effort to be different.

P.S. Math really started clicking for me when I took "teaching math." For some reason, when I was being taught how to teach it, it all started to make sense.



zoebob -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/7/2008 12:42:32 PM)

It sounds like you do care and so you are trying to teach math right. I never meant to say that heart was unimportant. It is. However, a teacher that gives the attitude htat math is hard and confusing doesn't have a good heart because they are passing off bad attitudes.

A good teacher needs both: they need to have the caring and concern to teach the students AND they need to understand the subject matter they are teaching.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/7/2008 12:55:19 PM)

quote:

However, a teacher that gives the attitude htat math is hard and confusing


But I always made sure to never portray that attitude. I really tried to convey that math was fun/important, etc. For example, I bought my preschoolers a cash register that they worked with (along with the play money), so that they could see one way we used math in everyday life. And when I tutored a brother and sister who couldn't go to school, because the boy had lukemia, and whose mom couldn't homeschool them herself because she was a working single mom, I really encouraged those kids to see the beauty, elegance, and importance of math. I also learned along with them when I had to. I also honestly told them that there were some things in life that I would have loved to do but never can because of my math deficiencies, such as architecture, and to really see math as an extremely important subject. Well, the boy eventually died, but the girl went on to do high school math with flying colors, and is going into nursing.



zoebob -> RE: what maeks you think you are qualified to teach your children? (5/7/2008 12:59:26 PM)

It sounds like you have a good attitude towards it and are teaching it well. You are doing it right.

There are teachers though who don't understand math and don't like it and give that attitude to their students.



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