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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/17/2008 9:49:13 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2258
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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Hildale -- Welfare is often how polygamist communities like Hildale in Utah and Colorado City in Arizona substantially support themselves. Polygamists often use food stamps to feed their families. Former polygamist Benjamin Bisline said, "If it wasn't for government subsidies, these people couldn't survive. There are people here with 15 wives on welfare.'' Bisline still lives in a polygamist town.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy5.html
Welfare fraud?
http://www.childbrides.org/abuses_Howell_time_to_end_abuse.html
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/17/2008 11:22:34 PM
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keepitreal
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I agree about the weirdness of the "emotions" (or lack thereof) demonstrated by the women. It's a cross between a Stepford wife thing, and something I can't quite put my finger on. It doesn't seem real.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/18/2008 5:31:53 PM
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lightshineon
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And where are the brave ( perverts) ahh, sorry men in these interviews? Do you reackon the women would be beat, if they do not do stepford wife, on the grange act? I feel sort of sorry for the women. I know they love their children, but, dysfunction does not even began to describe what has went on for years and years. One of the women, being interviewed, was trying to say ( or hinted at) that the girls were being sexually abused by the authorites in charge of them. Saying men over the children watched the girls, go to the bathrooms without doors, and something ( cannot remember it all, that they watched them undress??????? I do not recall quote on that one. They said children were sleeping on top of one another, like a bed, with some children sleeping under the beds. It is so bizzare, I have seen these situations on televison for years, and Thank God, someone had the nerve to stop this child rape, and abuse.
quote:
ORIGINAL: keepitreal
I agree about the weirdness of the "emotions" (or lack thereof) demonstrated by the women. It's a cross between a Stepford wife thing, and something I can't quite put my finger on. It doesn't seem real.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 2:00:59 AM
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NZAmish
Posts: 39
Joined: 10/9/2006
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Oh and here's something for you all to think about:
=====================================
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out
Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 8:16:48 AM
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Starbucks880
Posts: 117
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The government could have handled it better. Imagine if some crazy nut called the authorities and said that there was abuse happening in Chicago, IL, to pick a random city and then hung up without giving any more information. After that call, some overzealous government offical decides to call the army to take all the children from every home and put them in a "safe" location while they try to locate the caller and see who might have been abused. And then they take all the parents to court and the expert says, well there isn't any proof of abuse of the young kids and they aren't in any danger and foster homes would be an even bigger problem, but then the government says, "So what? We need to sift through everyone's backgrounds first just to make sure and the kids can stay in custody". That is what happened in this situation and I find that rather scary. Now since it is inevitable that someone on this board will jump on me and accuse me of having sympathies with this cult or even be an FLDS member, let me just say that I do not endorse polygamy, I think this cult has some sick practises, and of course if a 13 year old girl is being "married" and impregnant by a 50 year old man, then the law should have no mercy on that. But I'd like to see the government be successful in proving it--with the lack of records they have and that DNA will be both expensive and tedious and the fact that you don't have cooperative witnesses. I also find it interesting that in this case, we are prosecuting them on what "might" have happened, when there is one religous sect I can think of that has been able to circumvent the law through out of the court settlements and deals when the courts have proven the abuse occurred--yes I am talking about the Catholic Church. I am genuinely curious why one is above the law. How does that choice get made.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 8:34:23 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4871
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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I don't believe that our laws protecting Freedom of Religion were ever intended to protect cults. Every one is so concerned that we're next, and we might be. Christianity and persecution have always gone together like peanut butter and jelly since the time of Christ, and He said himself that we will be hated by the world. We've had 200 year respite from that in this country, but what we are experiencing in regard to being able freely worship God is not the norm. We can't turn our backs to the wrongs of cults and world religions out of fear that we ourselves will be persecuted.
It is wrong to force children to marry old men. Polygamy is agaisnt the law, and freedom of religion does not protect people against breaking the law. Child abuse is wrong. Mormonism is a cult, it's not in any way related to Christianity. They use some similar words and people tend to get confused, but Mormons are no better than Muslims who also beat their women and abuse their children. If the horrible things they practice in the Middle East were practiced here, would you want that protected under freedom of religion? Should female circumcision be allowed here?
I think of the Israelites in the land of Canaan and the other religions around them. It was common religous practice to sacrifice your firstborn son and build his body into the foundation of your house. Can you imagine the Jews looking the other way, worried that if the pagans weren't allowed to freely worship their gods then they might also face persecution?
We can't allow the threat of persecution to make us turn our backs on wrong. We need to stand up for what's right, no matter how we might personally be affected. God will bring about justice and we need to be on the right side of that.
_____________________________
<--My engagement picture. I was 16, he was 17 in this photo.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 10:24:53 AM
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keepitreal
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I think the age of consent in Texas is 17, not 16 . Isn't there also a clause that makes the age of consent even higher, if there is a wide age difference in partners? I may be wrong on that part. Has anyone else heard that?
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 10:47:45 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3311
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My question where are the men? Are they not brave enough, not to send thier women? If a cult of satanist were abusing children, should the goverment turn it's head.Girls are younger than 16, and are raped according to women who have escaped this life style. Imagine being 16, with a sixty something year old man man forcing himself on you, because he is your new hubby. What about the lost boys who are kicked out, of the community with nothing but the clothes on their backs, so old men can ravage young girls? Freedom of Religon in no way, comes before the protection of children. Waco, was tragic, but, something tragic was going on first. Children were being abused. Which people who supported old David did not care. Looking at Timothy Mcviegh(sp) who blewup and murdered, a bunch of babies, in the Federal Bulding Daycare, because Waco was wrong in his warped thinking. It tells me that Waco supporters do no see truth, and as tragic as it was not a freedom issue. It started as a Child Abuse case, just like what is going on in Texas. Again where are the men who should be speaking ( cowards, who know they will be prosecuted)
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 2:25:22 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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Thank you post posting Lisa, I agree with you.
I do think the gov't has messed up on this. Stupidity happens, especially in beaurocracy.  However, I don't think the abuses can be denied. It's a shame that because of the government messing up, these men may get off completely due to the legal issues.
I am really undecided about this. I think the State should have gone about this differently, no question. But there is something very, very disturbing about the FLDS and their treatment of children. I am a cult-survivor, so maybe I'm just a little leary. It has nothing to do with how they look (I myself wear the long dresses and don't cut my hair). It's the testimony of abuse from ex-members, girls being mothers several times over by age 16, the boys being abandoned, the scripted interviews, the absence of the men, and the one girl who looked at her husband and let him tell her age when an interviewer asked.
_____________________________
"Children are durable and don’t necessarily wilt under adversity, just as our children don’t necessarily thrive under luxury and comfort." Garrison Keillor
Shameless Self Promotion
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 2:43:29 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 824
Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
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I was watching a show that had several boys who were kicked out for silly stuff that teenagers do. The kid that left on his own was saying that the girls that got married were grown. The kids that were kicked out were saying that yeah I saw girls taken out of my 8th grade class to get married and were having a baby less then a year later. What has huge red flags going up for me is the government saying that these kids are not educated. So how can the angry kid say that he was in 8th grade and saw girls married off.
I would be the first to admit that those people are wierd. The whole group marriage completely cut off from anyone else is wierd. I also have a sick feeling that this could be a huge case of the government making up charges just so they have an excuse. Where are the pregnant 13 year olds? All I have seen is older moms wanting thier babies back. When the interviewer asked these boys about abuse even the angry ones said no there was nothing like they have heard on the news. The one that was not angry even said that kids were not married off at all. I am really starting to doubt that things are as bad as the press is trying to make it out to be.
I also remember hearing an interview from a lady that was abused as a child. She talked about how at the time she just thought it was normal but then her school found out. She ended up being taken away. Looking back she says that the trauma of being taken away from her parents hurt a lot more then gettitng hit. So if there is no sexual abuse going on and these people are just wierd I cry for the trauma those poor children are enduring. If they are being abused as bad as the press is making it out to be then I am all for them being removed. Time will tell.
_____________________________
<-------- She really loves her daddy!
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 4:26:53 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4871
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
Thank you post posting Lisa, I agree with you.
I do think the gov't has messed up on this. Stupidity happens, especially in beaurocracy. However, I don't think the abuses can be denied. It's a shame that because of the government messing up, these men may get off completely due to the legal issues.
I am really undecided about this. I think the State should have gone about this differently, no question. But there is something very, very disturbing about the FLDS and their treatment of children. I am a cult-survivor, so maybe I'm just a little leary. It has nothing to do with how they look (I myself wear the long dresses and don't cut my hair). It's the testimony of abuse from ex-members, girls being mothers several times over by age 16, the boys being abandoned, the scripted interviews, the absence of the men, and the one girl who looked at her husband and let him tell her age when an interviewer asked.
CPS always does seem to make a mess at whatever they do, that's for certain. I'm glad they didn't pull a Waco and kill everyone, so I guess that's one step in the right direction anyway. I would rather have them put the children and their mothers into safe places while this is being investigated. The women are victims as much as the children. To separate the kids from their mothers punishes the victims instead of the perpetrators in my opinion.
_____________________________
<--My engagement picture. I was 16, he was 17 in this photo.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 6:46:14 PM
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jongould
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In his book “Come Before Winter” the Rev. Charles R. Swindoll makes one of the most profound statements which Christians should always put foremost when making judgment based purely upon rumor. It is his chapter on Suspicion. “Both curiosity and suspicion may be terribly persistent, but one stays with the facts while the other strays beyond the facts –and in so doing, develops without the facts.”
David was successful in championing the cause of Israel and the people esteemed him for that in the King’s Court, Saul looked at David with suspicion from that day on.
(1 Samuel 18:9)
Moses saw the burning bush and said, “I must turn aside now, and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up.” (Exodus 3:3)
Moses saw the bush and couldn’t imagine; Saul imagined and then couldn’t see. Moses turned aside because a bush kept burning; Saul changed within and began to burn. Moses investigated and found God; Saul suspicioned and condemned David.
“Fear and Suspicion are twin sisters, only Suspicion is far more subtle.”
In this case it is purported by the State that a woman called and make these allegations:
1. She was 16 years old
2. She was in a marriage to an old man
3. She was abused
4. She was raped
Now IF there were a 16 year old girl making the call, IF she were married to an old man, and IF he had sexual relations with her whether coessential or not; then she was certainly abused and raped in my opinion and by statutory law in most states whether married or not.
The fact is that the State of Texas has not produced such a person. The Fact is the State has apprehended a woman who has been documented with calling authorities and committing the fraud of making falsified statements.
Now on to the second issue. There are so called Christians here calling those who practice polygamy perverts. Maybe one should spend some time in that Bible carried to church under the arm on those occasions one does attend, and take particular notice of Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon; all of whom practiced polygamy. Then ask God why he used such perverted patriots in the creation of his kingdom upon earth. If God can put aside their perversions then just maybe Christians should not stand in judgment of God they claim to be supreme.
I did not say that I thought polygamy was okay, I think that God made Adam and Eve as our first examples and that is how he intended mankind to live; one man, one woman. I am also saying that God made allowance for those patriots who had more than one wife and worked through them in spite of their failures; bringing His Son to earth through the linage of David bearing the greatest gift to mankind for ever: GRACE/FORGIVENESS. So Let us take upon ourselves a little the God given gift for our fellow Christians, even the ones who have given us a bad name in the sight of the world.
Calling a religious organization a “cult” has been the favorite item the US Government’s uses to lead a blind campaign against the people it chooses to persecute. The Branch Davidian Christian Scientist’s were a cult: The US Government there committed the mass genocide of hundreds of innocent children in Waco; while most so called Christians watched the US Government’s mass genocide in silence. Good Christians!
Keep in your mind that it was also the ruling leaders of the world who called your Jesus and His followers, “devil worshipers”.
Now, after disrupting the lives of hundreds of Christians, on nothing more than a purported story, the State has herded into their Coliseum hundreds of children and set upon them the ravaging lions and wolves, otherwise disguised as social workers. lawyers. and child protection.
I lived with a foster family, there were three American Indian boys who were also removed from their families and placed there. These were not bad boys; they had hopes and dreams just like any normal boy. They tried to do what would be pleasing to the foster parents and we all got along like natural siblings and they were pleasant to associate with, there were no beatings no violence.
The sad thing is that none of those boys are alive today. The State claims to have spent $5,000.000.00 on the care of those three boys between the ages of 10 and 18. So enter and feed upon some truth. The US and State Government Cottage Industries will flock upon these people, spend billions of US Tax Dollars and monies taken by force from the natural parents, and make themselves a right profitable livelihood all in the name of child protection and the likelihood is that not one of those children will be improved through the process.
In the high school my daughter attended; a boy was allowed the opportunity to rape her, she went to the guidance councilor for help. His help was to tell her not to say anything to anyone so that her name would not be ruined and then helped himself to raping her as well under the guise of being in love with her. The State did not come in and take all of the children to the coliseum for their protection from the school to which we entrusted our children. When the doctor discovered her condition, the police were notified, whose first suspicion was me, because she would not betray to them the name of her lover. In time the man was caught with child pornography and dismissed, and my daughter confessed to me what had really happened. In looking back I don’t know what my actions would have been had I known the truth from the start.
I am reminded of the police officer whose daughter was rapped in my home town, he went with his daughter and wife to confront and arrest the boys. The result was that his wife was shot, he killed one of the boys, and he was sentenced to 8 years in prison, for killing the boy. Not only did his daughter lose her reputation and purity; she also lost her father.
Christians will look away in silence while other’s sadly say amen.
One thing that amazes me is that it is Mormons teach the practice polygamy and their Book of Mormon condemns the practice; while most protestant Christians abhor the practice of polygamy while the examples of their biblical patriots practiced it freely without scriptural condemnation. What a paradox!
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 10:47:51 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2258
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepitreal
I think the age of consent in Texas is 17, not 16 . Isn't there also a clause that makes the age of consent even higher, if there is a wide age difference in partners? I may be wrong on that part. Has anyone else heard that?
quote:
If you are 14 to 17 years of age, you will need to show your birth certificate or some license, certificate or document issued by this state or another state, the U.S. or a foreign government.(Drivers license, military ID, passport or baptismal).
Both parties must be 18 years or older,(14-17 requires parental consent).
Both parties must provide their social security number or state they have one.
Both parties must provide all information as required on the application and as requested by the clerk.
Both parties must take the oath printed on the application and sign the application in the presence of the clerk.
http://usmarriagelaws.com/search/united_states/legal_age_of_consent/index.shtml
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/19/2008 11:02:09 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2258
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jongould
One thing that amazes me is that it is Mormons teach the practice polygamy and their Book of Mormon condemns the practice; while most protestant Christians abhor the practice of polygamy while the examples of their biblical patriots practiced it freely without scriptural condemnation. What a paradox!
The plural marriage doctrine was a later "revelation." The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the one with the Mormon Tabernacle choir) does not allow plural marriage at this time. The FLDS believe they are the only true church on earth and that polygamy is a commandment of God.
Book of Mormon, Jacob 2: 24 (23-24).
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
Book of Mormon, Jacob 3: 5 (5-7).
5 Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them.
Later Revelation in Mormon Scripture: D&C 132: 38 (38-39)
38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/20/2008 9:32:58 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3362
Joined: 4/11/2005
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This might interest some of you guys.
I have a friend who works for CPS in Texas. Caseworkers and other administrative personnel from around the state are taking turns traveling to San Angelo to basically babysit the kids in custody. (Since the local caseworkers can't be with them 24 hours.) They are doing their best to not upset the kids; for example, everyone has been told to not wear red, since red is banned in the compound. They've also been told to be very quiet and gentle. These children have been raised to believe anyone outside the compound is evil and seeks to hurt them. They are trying to show them otherwise. Also, a large number of them have never been outside the walls of the compound, so they are very disoriented.
She said two things that stood out to me:
1) before they removed the mothers, all the CPS workers had been told to be very careful while doing headcounts and such because the mothers were tripping some workers and causing them to fall; they were also yelling during the count to confuse the workers who were trying to keep track of the children
2) these children appear to have never had much in the way of toys; people have been donating a lot of toys to keep them busy and vast majority of the items--like crayons and coloring books--they have never seen before, they don't know what to do with them
27 teenaged boys have been brought to a group home in our area and they are said to be doing quite well--better than the girls or younger children. They are apparently adjusting quickly.
_____________________________
CW Underground
"Everything Stellaluna said (I do agree with her, honest)." -- miasma
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/20/2008 12:38:37 PM
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TomTurn
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Do not agree with the sect in conversation and not sure I can rightly put this into words. But it crossed my mind this morning.
Which is child abuse?
Having a 14 year old remain in an enviroment of protection that he or she is happy in
or
Forceably removing them from that enviroment and putting them into "the world"?
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/20/2008 1:10:49 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2258
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
Do not agree with the sect in conversation and not sure I can rightly put this into words. But it crossed my mind this morning.
Which is child abuse?
Having a 14 year old remain in an enviroment of protection that he or she is happy in
or
Forceably removing them from that enviroment and putting them into "the world"?
An environment of protection with predators??? You must be kidding! Most of us would be grateful to be rescued from one or more child molestors.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/20/2008 1:45:15 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
An environment of protection with predators??? You must be kidding! Most of us would be grateful to be rescued from one or more child molestors.
You are overreacting, I said I do not agree with this sect and was not sure I could get the thought out correctly
It was just a thought about what "the world" sees as wrong and what is child abuse.
Do these same people from "child protection" protect children from the harms of "the world".
Years back I said I did not agree with Waco. I do not agree with this sect. And I do not agree with a lot. Whowould agree with child abuse?. But when it comes to an obtrusive government, the fringes are where they will start and if they have to fabricate charges, it is proven they will (Ruby Ridge).
And we are already seeing the case against Christian homeschoolers. How dare you abuse your child like that? To many you are just as bad as these polygamists.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/20/2008 2:58:34 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3311
Joined: 4/11/2005
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If some man was sexually active with my little fourteen year old. He would not have the parts to do it again.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/20/2008 10:33:16 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2258
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
quote:
An environment of protection with predators??? You must be kidding! Most of us would be grateful to be rescued from one or more child molestors.
You are overreacting, I said I do not agree with this sect and was not sure I could get the thought out correctly
It was just a thought about what "the world" sees as wrong and what is child abuse.
Do these same people from "child protection" protect children from the harms of "the world".
Years back I said I did not agree with Waco. I do not agree with this sect. And I do not agree with a lot. Whowould agree with child abuse?. But when it comes to an obtrusive government, the fringes are where they will start and if they have to fabricate charges, it is proven they will (Ruby Ridge).
And we are already seeing the case against Christian homeschoolers. How dare you abuse your child like that? To many you are just as bad as these polygamists.
Well, if you're worried about how the government treats Christians, why don't you start a thread on that?
This is about the abuse in YFZ and FLDS. I know of a lot of homeschoolers who haven't had problems with the government. If the Christians would keep conservatives in office, we'd be better off. But OTOH, CPS has helped a lot of children. The problem is the kids' parents. There would be no thought of foster homes, if parents would treat their children the way the Lord wants them to be treated.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/20/2008 11:16:05 PM
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TomTurn
Posts: 758
Joined: 3/13/2008
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quote:
Well, if you're worried about how the government treats Christians, why don't you start a thread on that?
Am worried about how the U.S government treats all of its citizens and it's proven history of fabricating stories against citizens in order to prosecute them. My comment stands.
quote:
This is about the abuse in YFZ and FLDS.
Most likely there is abuse but for now in the case of this story it is alleged abuse.
'The state has taken legal, temporary custody of 401 children from a polygamist compound in nearby Schleicher County, a child welfare official said today, citing allegations of abuse and that the children were at risk of harm."
quote:
I know of a lot of homeschoolers who haven't had problems with the government.
I know a lot on mormons who have not had problems with the government, yet here we are
"A California appeals court ruling clamping down on homeschooling by parents without teaching credentials sent shock waves across the state this week, leaving an estimated 166,000 children as possible truants and their parents at risk of prosecution. The homeschooling movement never saw the case coming."
quote:
If the Christians would keep conservatives in office, we'd be better off.
We had a "conservative" President and a republican house and senate. How many ways did things get better off during that time?
.....
Look I am not saying for sure that something bad did not go on here. Most likely did. Let's hang all those men! Now that you are happy back to this;
It all started with me just womdering what is "abuse". Where is the line so that we know what will fall on the side of abuse or not abuse?
If a girl or boy were living in the compound and were as happy as could be. Would it still be seen as abuse because they lived different from most everyone else?
Some one said the women are like "Stepford wives". They are and it is strange to me and I would not want a wife like that. But her being that way is not against the law.
Am just asking questions
< Message edited by TomTurn -- 4/20/2008 11:30:27 PM >
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/21/2008 3:17:18 AM
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Annie64
Posts: 565
Joined: 6/4/2007
Status: offline
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I see what you're saying, TomTurn. These children have just had a horribly traumatic experience which will haunt them for the rest of their lives. The result of their being taken from the compound could be the same as if they were abused, even if they weren't being abused before. Nevertheless, as bad as it was, as untrustworthy as their rescuers may be, it had to happen. These kids need prayer, big time!
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On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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That one makes even me laugh!!1 
