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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/22/2008 5:10:11 PM
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TomTurn
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Let me ask this. If you think the people are guilty of all the charges. Would you not be concerned the government follow the letter of the law as not to risk loss of the case?
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/22/2008 5:13:35 PM
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P31W
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You have no evidence to support the idea that the gov has not obeyed the letter of the law.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/22/2008 5:14:55 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2221
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Wait a minute! Did I just see spell check? How did that happen? Oh man! Now it is going to take me forever to get in a post!!! 
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/22/2008 5:39:39 PM
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TomTurn
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quote:
You have no evidence to support the idea that the gov has not obeyed the letter of the law.
Have not supplied one bit and never claimed to. But sure have questions on what I have seen and posted them.
And what has it gotten me?
You are supporting rape and child abuse!
quote:
Wait a minute! Did I just see spell check? How did that happen? Oh man! Now it is going to take me forever to get in a post!!!
I am ignoring it
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/22/2008 7:55:37 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3416
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yeah, very cool for us challenged spellers.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TomTurn
quote:
You have no evidence to support the idea that the gov has not obeyed the letter of the law.
Have not supplied one bit and never claimed to. But sure have questions on what I have seen and posted them.
And what has it gotten me?
You are supporting rape and child abuse!
quote:
Wait a minute! Did I just see spell check? How did that happen? Oh man! Now it is going to take me forever to get in a post!!!
I am ignoring it
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/22/2008 10:17:57 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 3539
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Did anyone see the news tonight? FINALLY! Some of the men are coming forward to give DNA samples and try to get their children back!
Granted, if DNA testing shows the men have fathered children with multiple wives, they will be scrutinized more closely and if it is proven they had sex with an under-aged female they could face charges. But still...I think this is a good development.
(Some of the men. Most are refusing.)
_____________________________
CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/22/2008 10:26:28 PM
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lightshineon
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Former member on Dr. Phil today, along with a woman that has helped care for the children. For what it is worth.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/22/2008 10:29:58 PM
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stellaluna
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Did they say anything interesting? (on Dr. Phil)
_____________________________
CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/22/2008 10:37:04 PM
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lightshineon
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Yes so much, the former cult member child said her dad, who is Grant Jeffries? keep forgetting his name, raped her. The children in compound did not know what crayons were, ask for cleaning supplies. If you can get on website, so much dysfunction in this cult.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Did they say anything interesting? (on Dr. Phil)
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/23/2008 2:17:10 AM
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TomTurn
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quote:
The children in compound did not know what crayons were, ask for cleaning supplies. If you can get on website, so much dysfunction in this cult.
I fully, fully understand what you are saying and yes they are by many accounts a "dysfunctional cult".
Just want all to keep in mind that as Christians, keeping your children fom seeing much of television and other, you are a "dysfunctional cult" to many. And the day will come when you are under more scrutiny.
The best idea I can see here is to focus on any actual abuse. Which other than sexual (if any) has not been defined.
< Message edited by TomTurn -- 4/23/2008 3:40:17 AM >
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/23/2008 6:13:40 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1993
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Yes so much, the former cult member child said her dad, who is Grant Jeffries? keep forgetting his name, raped her. The children in compound did not know what crayons were, ask for cleaning supplies. If you can get on website, so much dysfunction in this cult.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Did they say anything interesting? (on Dr. Phil)
But which Grant Jeffries? I saw on the news that what is making it harder for the LEOS to sort it out is that many use the same name.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/23/2008 12:48:50 PM
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lightshineon
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I am sure the mothers miss thier children, and are subject to abuse also. It has been proven in the court system with the Jeffries prophet, that child sexual abuse has occured. There is evidence in testimonies of women, and girls in these cults, that have left and came forward to tell of this abuse. I do not know about the " caller", but I have seen testimonies, before this all started, I have also heard, how the court of law, had women from the cults testifying in the Jeffries case. I think we only need to know how this religon works, and how the whole group is subject to the prophets. Anytime you have complete mind-control is telling evidence in itself. The Amish are different, with the dress and customs, but, they are as far as we can tell, quite different than the LDS. This cannot continue to go on, for the sake of the children, lost boys, and women themselves. 3cappuccinosmom, the sight was interesting. What did you think, about it?
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
Interesting site put up by the FLDS.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/23/2008 9:24:57 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2039
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From: The Crossroads of America
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The last name is JEFFS, one syllable, five letters.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/23/2008 9:44:44 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
This cannot continue to go on, for the sake of the children, lost boys, and women themselves. 3cappuccinosmom, the sight was interesting. What did you think, about it?
I think most people are focusing on the wrong thing. Both sides (those who think it's abusive and those who defend the FLDS) are saying that it's their dress/seperateness/long hair/homeschooling/whatever that is "proof" or being used as proof for abuse. Personally, I don't have a problem with those things. The pictures remind me a lot of the Amish (only regarding outward looks, not group practice), and I personally look weird  (headcovering and long dresses), and I'm raising my children to be "seperate" and different from the world. Quiet, discreet women don't bother me either. That's what I'm striving for.
It's the likelihood of sexual/physical abuse, abandonment of boys, and coercive practices that should be the focus, and to me it doesn't seem like they are.
_____________________________
 Moo
Shameless Self Promotion
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/23/2008 10:35:09 PM
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lightshineon
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Sorry JEFFS perverts names, not the top of my AGENDA!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
The last name is JEFFS, one syllable, five letters.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/24/2008 9:35:37 AM
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Sunnymom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
This cannot continue to go on, for the sake of the children, lost boys, and women themselves. 3cappuccinosmom, the sight was interesting. What did you think, about it?
I think most people are focusing on the wrong thing. Both sides (those who think it's abusive and those who defend the FLDS) are saying that it's their dress/seperateness/long hair/homeschooling/whatever that is "proof" or being used as proof for abuse. Personally, I don't have a problem with those things. The pictures remind me a lot of the Amish (only regarding outward looks, not group practice), and I personally look weird (headcovering and long dresses), and I'm raising my children to be "seperate" and different from the world. Quiet, discreet women don't bother me either. That's what I'm striving for.
It's the likelihood of sexual/physical abuse, abandonment of boys, and coercive practices that should be the focus, and to me it doesn't seem like they are.
Ditto that- the last time I checked it wasn't illegal to have long hair or wear dresses or homeschool.
I agree that the coersive nature of these kinds of cults are a cause for concern and investigation for abuse and neglect. But there is nothing new about people wearing strange clothing, weird hair, or teens getting pregnant. Happens out in the big world all the time, and you don't have to be a member of a cult to have illiterate children or multiple sex partners, dragging the kids from one boyfriend/girlfriend to another. You have to be a member of a church for those behaviors to be considered suspect enough for CPS to step in and do something. 
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/24/2008 9:44:11 AM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1800
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From: Northern IL
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But has Texas proven that there was abuse? Weren't the accusations proven false? The whole thing scares me because I just see this cascading into something much more sinister against true believers.
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Deb
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/24/2008 9:54:05 AM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
But has Texas proven that there was abuse? Weren't the accusations proven false? The whole thing scares me because I just see this cascading into something much more sinister against true believers.
Nothing has been proven yet. And the process came to a screeching halt when it became impossible to determine which kids belonged to which parents. That's why they're still in custody and they're doing DNA testing.
_____________________________
CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/24/2008 11:41:18 AM
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lightshineon
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No, it is not the long dress, the hair, different ways, it is child abuse. This cult is known for it, they have one Prophet in jail. Amish, I see in wal-mart all the time, pentocostal women who, dress different. No one seems bothered by that, infact, seems pretty cool( for them). They are in no way mistreated. Teens getting pregnant, yes it happens, but by force? This has not been "Proven", there is evidence from from the recent past. The " Lost Boys" ae kicked out for some reason. There is also the words of former, cult wives. Mutiple wives is against the law, so they are fornacating, so already they are sinning, breaking the law. To my knowledge the Amish, are not that unbalanced, but good people. Amish women are quite, when I have spoken to them, but, not robtic. In the past seeing documentries on this cult, I have wondered, why these children were not protected. If my pastor was raping ( having sex) with anyone under eighteen, he would be in prison, and rightly so. In closing, I thought the children looked adorable, clean, and neatly dressed, even if it was not the norm, that is ok.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
This cannot continue to go on, for the sake of the children, lost boys, and women themselves. 3cappuccinosmom, the sight was interesting. What did you think, about it?
I think most people are focusing on the wrong thing. Both sides (those who think it's abusive and those who defend the FLDS) are saying that it's their dress/seperateness/long hair/homeschooling/whatever that is "proof" or being used as proof for abuse. Personally, I don't have a problem with those things. The pictures remind me a lot of the Amish (only regarding outward looks, not group practice), and I personally look weird (headcovering and long dresses), and I'm raising my children to be "seperate" and different from the world. Quiet, discreet women don't bother me either. That's what I'm striving for.
It's the likelihood of sexual/physical abuse, abandonment of boys, and coercive practices that should be the focus, and to me it doesn't seem like they are.
Ditto that- the last time I checked it wasn't illegal to have long hair or wear dresses or homeschool.
I agree that the coersive nature of these kinds of cults are a cause for concern and investigation for abuse and neglect. But there is nothing new about people wearing strange clothing, weird hair, or teens getting pregnant. Happens out in the big world all the time, and you don't have to be a member of a cult to have illiterate children or multiple sex partners, dragging the kids from one boyfriend/girlfriend to another. You have to be a member of a church for those behaviors to be considered suspect enough for CPS to step in and do something.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/24/2008 12:07:18 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2221
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quote:
But has Texas proven that there was abuse?
All we know right now is they have probable cause to keep the children. If they find evidence of abuse it won't be "proven" until they go to court.
quote:
Weren't the accusations proven false
I don't believe this has been "proven" either however they do have strong evidence to suggest that the woman who made the call was not who she said she was.
quote:
The whole thing scares me because I just see this cascading into something much more sinister against true believers.
It does not concern me at all.
< Message edited by P31W -- 4/24/2008 12:14:19 PM >
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/24/2008 1:36:27 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 2567
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quote:
and you don't have to be a member of a cult to have illiterate children or multiple sex partners, dragging the kids from one boyfriend/girlfriend to another. You have to be a member of a church for those behaviors to be considered suspect enough for CPS to step in and do something.
lol. I was thinking about that this morning. IMO, polygamy is gross, immoral and demeaning to women.  But "polyamory" is among the many perversions that is taking root in our culture, I am seeing reference to it more and more, sort of on the tail end of the gay rights movement. Men spreading themselves around among 4 or 8 women is nothing new , and secular people do it all the time. I don't see CPS cracking down and taking away the children of folks who attend orgies or advertise in the paper wanting a threesome. 
What it comes down to, to me, is that one major tenet of the FLDS faith is that polygamy is the only way to heaven, which all by itself serves as coercion. Then, the abandonment of young boys, and the testimony of physical and sexual abuse by ex-members.
_____________________________
Moo
Shameless Self Promotion
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/24/2008 1:44:38 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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In Texas polygamy ( and bigamy) is a felony, having sex (consensual or otherwise) with a minoris a worse felony.
Not to worry there are going to be plenty of charges filed to go around.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/24/2008 3:48:10 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1800
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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quote:
In Texas polygamy ( and bigamy) is a felony
What took Texas so long to bust them?
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Deb
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/25/2008 2:50:47 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2039
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
In Texas polygamy ( and bigamy) is a felony
What took Texas so long to bust them?
Most likely "reasonable cause" to go in there.
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