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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/25/2008 9:11:44 AM
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stampinlady
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But if the Government knew that this was a polygamist(?) group why didn't they stop them years ago? I think there's more going on here than we know.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/25/2008 9:14:37 AM
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P31W
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What evidence did they have to support that?
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/25/2008 1:48:42 PM
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lightshineon
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Glad they are finally doing something. A former LDS member, a woman said they are not close to mothers. They are raise comunial(sp), it would devestate the kids to be seperated though. this former member siad she called her mother " Mother Caroline", Not allowed to call her just mother. The children are all close though. I watched this on Anderson cooper 360, if anyone wants to see the the story on the site.
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Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/25/2008 1:54:45 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Glad they are finally doing something. A former LDS member, a woman said they are not close to mothers. They are raise comunial(sp), it would devestate the kids to be seperated though. this former member siad she called her mother " Mother Caroline", Not allowed to call her just mother. The children are all close though. I watched this on Anderson cooper 360, if anyone wants to see the the story on the site.
Yeah, that's the problem that led to the DNA testing. Every time they asked the kids who their parents were, they pointed to someone different.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/25/2008 3:07:28 PM
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lightshineon
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Reminds me of the song " Who's Your Daddy?" " Or "Who's your Mama? was she twelve like me?" Who sang that anyway?
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Glad they are finally doing something. A former LDS member, a woman said they are not close to mothers. They are raise comunial(sp), it would devestate the kids to be seperated though. this former member siad she called her mother " Mother Caroline", Not allowed to call her just mother. The children are all close though. I watched this on Anderson cooper 360, if anyone wants to see the the story on the site.
Yeah, that's the problem that led to the DNA testing. Every time they asked the kids who their parents were, they pointed to someone different.
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 4/25/2008 3:15:31 PM >
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/26/2008 7:45:44 AM
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Sunnymom
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light- I am not advocating for this cult- just pointing out what the media is oohing and aahing about, as if long hair and homemade dresses and home education are indicators of cult behavior. And the fact that they ignore men and women with multiple sex partners, but have hysterics over multiple spouses. Children are allowed to remain in homes where drug abuse is occurring, where they are 'babysat' by televisions blasting MTV and God knows what else, eating Cheetos and Fruit Rollups all day long and brushing their teeth every leap year.
OBVIOUSLY the abuse of minor children should be addressed, regardless of who is doing the abuse, but much abuse is ignored and IMO the media and CPS are extremely hypocritical about who they investigate and from whose homes they deem removal of children essential.
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ORIGINAL: lightshineon
No, it is not the long dress, the hair, different ways, it is child abuse. This cult is known for it, they have one Prophet  in jail. Amish, I see in wal-mart all the time, pentocostal women who, dress different. No one seems bothered by that, infact, seems pretty cool( for them). They are in no way mistreated. Teens getting pregnant, yes it happens, but by force? This has not been "Proven", there is evidence from from the recent past. The " Lost Boys" ae kicked out for some reason. There is also the words of former, cult wives. Mutiple wives is against the law, so they are fornacating, so already they are sinning, breaking the law. To my knowledge the Amish, are not that unbalanced, but good people. Amish women are quite, when I have spoken to them, but, not robtic. In the past seeing documentries on this cult, I have wondered, why these children were not protected. If my pastor was raping ( having sex) with anyone under eighteen, he would be in prison, and rightly so. In closing, I thought the children looked adorable, clean, and neatly dressed, even if it was not the norm, that is ok.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/26/2008 8:29:17 AM
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lightshineon
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Well you bet, if sexual abuse is going on with minors, no matter who does it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If we say well, do not only persecute Christians for abuse stance, than we are missing the point, and We should give the boys back to the the catholic priest. If a group of people, or person claming to be holy, and uses that power and authority to sexually, mentally abuse anyone, the psycological effects are ten times worse. I, personally think nothing of the dress, whatsoever. I am of the opinion something should have been done long ago with this cult, and their abuse practices. Yes people bed hop, they will be punished by God,Hebrews 13, tells us this. The LDS are not lawfully married, and to abuse Children in the name of God, is worse than sinners doing it, it gives God a bad name, and is Spiritual abuse in the worst form. The long dressess, hair, homeschool ( which I am doing next year) have no bearing on my opinion, or have I heard comments about it. I am not saying it has not happened just have not heard it. It seems that the care givers are going above board to make sure they do not hurt these children and their customs, The workers will not wear red, a sacred color for them, and have not and will not put them in public schools. Just because this is an evil world should we just let child abuse, and rape in the name of the Lord continue? I said earlier, if my pastor was having sex with a young girl under 18, he would, and should be prosecuted. At what point did being a pediphile become acceptable? As far as dress, homeschool, it is not an issue with me, but, on the other hand; does make LDS holy either. It is suprising that many ( not referring to you Sunnymom), think this type of abuse is at in any way, shape or form, acceptable in the eyes of God, or man.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
light- I am not advocating for this cult- just pointing out what the media is oohing and aahing about, as if long hair and homemade dresses and home education are indicators of cult behavior. And the fact that they ignore men and women with multiple sex partners, but have hysterics over multiple spouses. Children are allowed to remain in homes where drug abuse is occurring, where they are 'babysat' by televisions blasting MTV and God knows what else, eating Cheetos and Fruit Rollups all day long and brushing their teeth every leap year.
OBVIOUSLY the abuse of minor children should be addressed, regardless of who is doing the abuse, but much abuse is ignored and IMO the media and CPS are extremely hypocritical about who they investigate and from whose homes they deem removal of children essential.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
No, it is not the long dress, the hair, different ways, it is child abuse. This cult is known for it, they have one Prophet in jail. Amish, I see in wal-mart all the time, pentocostal women who, dress different. No one seems bothered by that, infact, seems pretty cool( for them). They are in no way mistreated. Teens getting pregnant, yes it happens, but by force? This has not been "Proven", there is evidence from from the recent past. The " Lost Boys" ae kicked out for some reason. There is also the words of former, cult wives. Mutiple wives is against the law, so they are fornacating, so already they are sinning, breaking the law. To my knowledge the Amish, are not that unbalanced, but good people. Amish women are quite, when I have spoken to them, but, not robtic. In the past seeing documentries on this cult, I have wondered, why these children were not protected. If my pastor was raping ( having sex) with anyone under eighteen, he would be in prison, and rightly so. In closing, I thought the children looked adorable, clean, and neatly dressed, even if it was not the norm, that is ok.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/26/2008 9:02:27 AM
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Sunnymom
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light- I am completely confused- did you interpret my post to say that those who abuse in the name of the Lord or some prophet should be exempt from scrutiny or punishment?
I pointed out what I believe to be hypocrisy in the media coverage around this tragedy, as well as how CPS deals with abuse. Period. That is all I posted about.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/26/2008 9:34:32 AM
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stellaluna
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I actually haven't heard any media coverage about how they look. And I don't think people are as much concerned with multiple partners as they are multiple partners who are minors. (Although as RC pointed out, polygamy is illegal in Texas.) They already know some minors are mothers; someone's going to be prosecuted for every single one, unless all the fathers are also minors.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/26/2008 9:58:39 AM
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lightshineon
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None of the fathers are minors, I am sure, remember young boys are kicked out of the cult, so old men can have the young girls, that is proof in itself. Sunnymom, no I do not think you advocate abuse of children. I do not think the media is biased either, this is a large scale 400 plus removal of children, so yes it will draw attention. CPS is doing something that should been done long ago. I think CPS was biased for LDS, because no one had the courage to take on this religous group. Abuse,, rape has been documented through Jeffs trial, and the words of former women cult victims, and through proof of the" Lost Boys", If anything CPS has been neglegent for way to long dealing with these people. I see no comments about dress, like I said earlier. I hope they are prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and this harmful group is disbanded.
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I actually haven't heard any media coverage about how they look. And I don't think people are as much concerned with multiple partners as they are multiple partners who are minors. (Although as RC pointed out, polygamy is illegal in Texas.) They already know some minors are mothers; someone's going to be prosecuted for every single one, unless all the fathers are also minors.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/29/2008 11:32:14 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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quote:
Where are the pregnant and abused 12-16 year olds?
One just gave birth to a baby boy. According to THIS ARTICLE 31 out of the 53 girls ages 14 to 17 are either pregnant or have had children.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 12:01:28 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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I watched a show last night that was interviewing a couple of women who escaped from that cult. It is sad how they act and treat the women. the mothers do no show affection to the children and women are treated horrible. Their duty is to have one baby after another until they cannot have any more. Then they are turned into slaves pretty much. I cannot imagine that many of these women would want to stay there. One of the women interviewed said that if a woman gets out of line they punish her children. I was also watching Jay Leno and he had Dr Phil on last night. Dr Phil said that a large majority of kids in foster care do not end up well at all. They end up on the street, drug addicts or in prison. They really need to focus on getting these moms some help so they can raise thier own children in my humble opinion.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 1:11:58 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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Texas officials have told legislators they're looking at the possible sexual abuse of some young boys taken from the polygamist sect's ranch.
Earlier, Commissioner Carey Cockerell — in charge of the umbrella Department of Family and Protective Services — told lawmakers 41 children have evidence of broken bones.
POSSIBLE ABUSE OF BOYS
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 1:49:36 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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41 out of 400 kids is only 1 in ten with broken bones. That's a better rate than I have with my kids, lol-only one in two has broken a bone. But given what one mom was saying regarding the treatment of infants, I suppose all evidence of abuse should be looked for.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 2:46:33 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
But if the Government knew that this was a polygamist(?) group why didn't they stop them years ago? I think there's more going on here than we know.
Bigamy (Polygamy) is a felony under Texas law. That means legal marriages and these wierdos are not getting legally married to multiplbe partnes; it is a Church sponsored wedding. So they are just shacking up not married.
The under age girls who have and are having babies will be the catalist to bring felony charges of child rape that are so needed, not only here but in Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and anywhre else this child abuse/molestation is going on.
Thsnks
RC
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 8:07:02 PM
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lightshineon
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I thank our Lord for this cult being scattered, and child abuse stopped.
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 8:10:30 PM
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Giulia
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Firstly I think a search warrant should have been served and I also think that they didn't need to go in as they did, they weren't going in to catch armed robbers or anything. Secondly I wonder about the foster homes these children are going to end up in as some foster homes are places where pedophiles are able to have easy access to their prey. I am being extreme here, that is the way I think naturally.
I think by all means investigate, but not to allow the law to become void under the investigation, general viewing of a search warrant is the first legal requirement the investigators should keep. If they don't observe the law here then what makes anyone think they will observe the law anywhere else?
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 8:12:00 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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Where do you get that they had no warrant?
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 8:13:06 PM
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lightshineon
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Giulia give me three armed robbers over one pervert any day.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Giulia
Firstly I think a search warrant should have been served and I also think that they didn't need to go in as they did, they weren't going in to catch armed robbers or anything. Secondly I wonder about the foster homes these children are going to end up in as some foster homes are places where pedophiles are able to have easy access to their prey. I am being extreme here, that is the way I think naturally.
I think by all means investigate, but not to allow the law to become void under the investigation, general viewing of a search warrant is the first legal requirement the investigators should keep. If they don't observe the law here then what makes anyone think they will observe the law anywhere else?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 8:31:27 PM
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Giulia
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quote:
Where do you get that they had no warrant? , apparently they did not show the search warrant, I saw and heard it on one of the MSN videos, I'll try to find it again for you.
quote:
Giulia give me three armed robbers over one pervert any day.
I agree but allow me to tell you a story of something which once happened to me:
The gambling/drug dealing joint my husband and I had got raided once. We all got strip searched. I asked for a woman to conduct mine. They denied me this right, instead I was made to get up on the desk in front of one detective, drop my pants and bend over and spread them in front of him. No one else was in the room, he conducted this search alone. Should've charged him for a peep show  (I am joking) It was serious, I didn't complain, who would've believed me anyway?
I am really not inhibited, like I can take my clothes off with no shame, been doing it for yrs that towards the end I started talking about the garden of Eden (before the fall) to the officers while they were searching me (as a result they were more ashamed than I ever was)  . Still it doesn't make it right.
That is just one time I was treated wrongfully at the hands of police, there are many others. Yes I was an outlaw, it doesn't justify others who are investigating me to be the same.
I haven't got time to go through each video of the ranch but one of these shows it you will be able to hear them being denied to look at the search warrant which is wrong.
also you must remember these are all biased views. Each reporter takes a side, none of the allegations have yet been proven. They have limited information and so cannot make informed statements or judgements.
I agree something is fishy, don't agree on passing judgement without knowing the full story from both sides.
< Message edited by Giulia -- 4/30/2008 8:59:55 PM >
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 8:32:05 PM
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stellaluna
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First of all, there was a warrant.
Secondly, if it makes anyone feel better...50 or so of the kids are here in my city at a Christian group home. They are all being kept together.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 8:47:38 PM
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Giulia
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From: Giulia
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quote:
First of all, there was a warrant.
It does not seem like it was shown though. It is in one of the videos the link of which I provided above. You can see the soldier saying there is a warrant but when the woman asks to see it she is denied that right.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 9:48:32 PM
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lightshineon
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I do not know for sure, but if a crime is in progress, a search warrant is not necessary, with probale cause. I feel no pity for the civil rights of these people who hurt kids. I hope they are prosecuted and put in prison.
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 400 children in custody in polygamist compound raid - 4/30/2008 10:54:22 PM
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HisLamb26
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If all the men cooperated with DNA...it shouldn't be too hard to find the child rapists of the 14-17yr old girls who are pregnant or have already given birth.
I hope they jail all of them.
Will this give them probbaly cause to go in to the other FDLS "ranches" and rescue other children from a lifetime of sexual slavery to old perverts? (Not sure how the law works here, but if they have evidence of systematcic and wide spread sexual abuse in one group of FDLSs...how long before a judge somehwere gives them permission to clean up the other FLDS cults?)
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Part of it is what culture deems as acceptable though. To the culture as a whole, smoking pot and watching porn are pretty normal pastimes, so it's not a big stretch to have CPS know of these things going on around minors and not be concerned. 
