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RE: Birth control - 4/21/2008 2:04:50 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 2827
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
I guess I made a good point since you won't discuss it.
Ummm...no. I used to go for 75 pages on these round and round discussions. But these days, I have a life.  I actually intended *not* to participate at all, but got sucked right in. IME, this particular topic will go around and around for a bunch of pages, and eventually get personal, with mean things said about large families and references to welfare and Andrea Yates and denim jumpers, etc. In the past, I have found that I end up thinking of how I'm going to word my next point, and getting irritated with certain attidues, and it affects how I behave with my family.
Since they are the ones that have to live with me, I'm afraid I am not going to be able to continue the debate. But lest you think otherwise, I disagree with your point(s) and you've not changed my mind, or even come close. 
_____________________________
"Children are durable and don’t necessarily wilt under adversity, just as our children don’t necessarily thrive under luxury and comfort." Garrison Keillor
Shameless Self Promotion
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RE: Birth control - 4/21/2008 2:39:59 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 552
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: granolagirl
I have thought of using it, but I can't seem to justify it in my heart. I feel like I'm telling God "This is what I want to do and I don't care what You want for us." Maybe I just need a different perspective.
Without having read any of the responses yet, I came to the same conclusion for myself as you. Doctors have recommended various kinds of birth control to me over the years. The first time it was pills. I took them home and the Holy Spirit strongly impressed upon me not to take them. I threw them out.
The next time the doctor offered a different kind of birth control. I took it home and was going to use it when the same thing occured as previously. So I threw the birth control device away. I never considered birth control since.
Instead, I've practiced the rhythym method, which is natural family planning. I have two children. My husband was very willing to work with me and agreed with my decision.
Since that time, I've read up on the subject and was surprised to learn that at one time, all Christians thought birth control was morally wrong. Since I haven't read any of the responses to your OP, it will be interesting to see what others think.
I have a clear conscience for the choice I made. I wouldn't want to have done it any other way.
May the Lord guide you in this very serious decision.
Heavendweller
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RE: Birth control - 4/21/2008 2:40:35 PM
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Lurker
Posts: 735
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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I'm just curious, I know that most everyone here is Protestant, but that said, has anyone ever looked into the Catholic reasonings? I ask because the late Pope, John Paul II did a series of talks that became known as "the Theology of the Body" and they address this topic (among many others). I know that not only Catholic churches are doing talks on this, but I believe some of the QF supporting Protestant churches are using it now as well.
Have you read any of these talks given by the late Pope? And if so, what do you think of them?
here's a link discussing the Theology of the Body for those interested in learning more.
http://www.nfpoutreach.org/Hogan_Theology_%20Body1.htm
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Birth control - 4/21/2008 2:49:46 PM
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BlessedMamaofmany
Posts: 1886
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Just north of nowhere
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
I guess I made a good point since you won't discuss it.
Ummm...no. I used to go for 75 pages on these round and round discussions. But these days, I have a life. I actually intended *not* to participate at all, but got sucked right in. IME, this particular topic will go around and around for a bunch of pages, and eventually get personal, with mean things said about large families and references to welfare and Andrea Yates and denim jumpers, etc. In the past, I have found that I end up thinking of how I'm going to word my next point, and getting irritated with certain attidues, and it affects how I behave with my family.
Since they are the ones that have to live with me, I'm afraid I am not going to be able to continue the debate. But lest you think otherwise, I disagree with your point(s) and you've not changed my mind, or even come close.
Agreed. Count me in there too. What you said LOL
Sandy
_____________________________
The Daily Poop
DustySgt
<---Half my  is in Iraq
Before the Boogyman goes to bed, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris...
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RE: Birth control - 4/21/2008 2:55:02 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 552
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
Questions then come to my mind:
- are there two commandments, or only one. Is it "be fruitul and fill the earth", or is it "1) Be fruitful. 2) Fill the earth"
- If it's one commandment, then haven't we filled it enough? Isn't 6, or 7 or 8 billion people enough? At what point is a commandment fulfilled. Personally, I'm wondering if God isn't saying, "Enough already, folks!"
Take a look at Western Europe, where birth control is very popular. Their population rate has plunged phenomenally. And the only thing increasing their population is due to the influx of immigrants, especially Muslims who love to pro-create. And we know the problem that is causing. :)
Heavendweller
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RE: Birth control - 4/21/2008 3:05:42 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 552
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
This is a topic that should be treated with great sensitivity and A LOT of grace.
Very charitable and gracious statement.
Heavendweller
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RE: Birth control - 4/21/2008 3:10:29 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 1738
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: Saturn
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If you must depend on others or the government to finance your quiver, then it is time for one or the other to get snipped. OR the government and help organizations to draw the line for you: No money or food suplements after X number of kids.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: Birth control - 4/21/2008 3:31:48 PM
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relady
Posts: 959
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
I've read up on the subject and was surprised to learn that at one time, all Christians thought birth control was morally wrong. I suspect that the Protestant view changed at least in part because not practicing family planning/birth control was mostly a Catholic doctrine. I know when I was growing up (SBC in the 60s & 70s), anything remotely Catholic in origin (real or perceived) was trashed.
quote:
If you must depend on others or the government to finance your quiver, then it is time for one or the other to get snipped. OR the government and help organizations to draw the line for you: No money or food suplements after X number of kids. I am so on board with that. Although in reality, lines like that end up just hurting the kids who have no control over the situation at all.
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RE: Birth control - 4/21/2008 4:11:09 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 8005
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
I guess I made a good point since you won't discuss it.
Ummm...no. I used to go for 75 pages on these round and round discussions. But these days, I have a life. I actually intended *not* to participate at all, but got sucked right in. IME, this particular topic will go around and around for a bunch of pages, and eventually get personal, with mean things said about large families and references to welfare and Andrea Yates and denim jumpers, etc. In the past, I have found that I end up thinking of how I'm going to word my next point, and getting irritated with certain attidues, and it affects how I behave with my family.
Since they are the ones that have to live with me, I'm afraid I am not going to be able to continue the debate. But lest you think otherwise, I disagree with your point(s) and you've not changed my mind, or even come close.
As elastic stated, I was not addressing you - I was addressing a completely different poster and a completely different issue. I'm sorry you thought I was talking about you. I wasn't.
As far as changing your mind: I have never said you shouldn't be QF. In fact, I have stated more than once that if God calls you to be QF, God bless you in that. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was trying to change your mind. My only point is that each person needs to seek God's will in this matter themselves and that I do not believe everyone is called to be QF and why.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Birth control - 4/22/2008 6:42:03 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2314
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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tee hee, now you can let the peanut know, God wanted you here.
_____________________________
bungalow time http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Birth control - 4/23/2008 2:24:15 AM
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stephengoswami
Posts: 31
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline
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The real vocation of real Christians is to make spiritual progeny being united with Holy Spirit. So, Mary conceived Christ being united with Holy Spirit. Christ and the apostles did not make carnal progeny. They made spiritual progeny only. Even if we can’t convert our carnal children to spiritual progeny they will lost to us eternally. My carnal body is not me. I am a soul created in heaven in God’s image, while my body is in animal Ape’s image. God did not create our soul in this devil’s deadly domain. Please read my other posts.
I said about the process of creating our souls in heaven. It is through mystical experience i.e. what Christ Is talking today to his followers. But it is in the bible too, if you can read between the lines.
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RE: Birth control - 4/23/2008 6:45:02 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2314
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
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quote:
Please read my other posts.
I did and I still say, "huh?" I find that the bible encourages good old hot and sweaty communion between married folks. Hense the reason for this discussion. No one needs to be married to create "spiritual children". Anyone of us can be an example of the life God would have us live. And those around us should say, "I want some of that".
In the meantime, I have to get ready for work and teach some flesh and blood children. L8R
_____________________________
bungalow time http://www.car2ner.2ya.com (my blog)
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RE: Birth control - 4/23/2008 11:08:45 AM
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Lurker
Posts: 735
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stephengoswami
The real vocation of real Christians is to make spiritual progeny being united with Holy Spirit. So, Mary conceived Christ being united with Holy Spirit. Christ and the apostles did not make carnal progeny. They made spiritual progeny only. Even if we can’t convert our carnal children to spiritual progeny they will lost to us eternally. My carnal body is not me. I am a soul created in heaven in God’s image, while my body is in animal Ape’s image. God did not create our soul in this devil’s deadly domain. Please read my other posts.
I said about the process of creating our souls in heaven. It is through mystical experience i.e. what Christ Is talking today to his followers. But it is in the bible too, if you can read between the lines.
Err. That's actually gnosticism, or a variant thereof. We aren't just souls inside a body, the body is part of us. God created the physical world and pronounced it good, but when He made us, body and soul, He called us VERY good. To say that our body isn't good, and in a sense is created only by the devil does dishonour to the Lord who made our bodies and called them very good.
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Birth control - 4/23/2008 7:14:58 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16114
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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stephengoswami
Your posts do not seem to line up with our Terms of Service. They are also off topic.
You may want to read our Terms of Service, Range of Doctrine, and even our Statement of Faith.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please allow time for a response.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
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RE: Birth control - 4/25/2008 5:07:39 PM
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clag4christ
Posts: 3041
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
If you must depend on others or the government to finance your quiver, then it is time for one or the other to get snipped. OR the government and help organizations to draw the line for you: No money or food suplements after X number of kids.
Right...because the gov't. is the most qualified 'entity' to decide how many children a fmaily should have...
Eugenics is disgusting...
_____________________________
Stop vegetable genocide! Have a burger!
<-----Sweet Jael
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RE: Birth control - 4/25/2008 7:35:10 PM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 1562
Joined: 8/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
If you must depend on others or the government to finance your quiver, then it is time for one or the other to get snipped. OR the government and help organizations to draw the line for you: No money or food suplements after X number of kids.
Right...because the gov't. is the most qualified 'entity' to decide how many children a fmaily should have...
Eugenics is disgusting...
I don't think bluestone is saying that the government should decide how many kids you have, but that welfare should cease at a certain number. That isn't the same thing.
_____________________________
My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Birth control - 4/25/2008 9:06:01 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 8005
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Exactly. It's called personal responsibility. Don't expect someone else to be responsible for your decisions. End of story.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Birth control - 4/26/2008 12:20:08 AM
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Kath
Posts: 16114
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
Exactly. It's called personal responsibility. Don't expect someone else to be responsible for your decisions. End of story.
I agree with that too.
_____________________________
Where is human nature so weak as in the bookstore?
- Henry Ward Beecher
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RE: Birth control - 4/26/2008 1:53:41 PM
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clag4christ
Posts: 3041
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't think bluestone is saying that the government should decide how many kids you have, but that welfare should cease at a certain number. That isn't the same thing.
quote:
Exactly. It's called personal responsibility. Don't expect someone else to be responsible for your decisions. End of story.
Ah...that makes sense. I thought welfare had been changed...I know that tax credits for children have a cut off as well (6 or something like that).
_____________________________
Stop vegetable genocide! Have a burger!
<-----Sweet Jael
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RE: Birth control - 4/26/2008 2:52:35 PM
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MissGizmo
Posts: 7870
Joined: 8/12/2006
From: Roanoke, Virginia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
Exactly. It's called personal responsibility. Don't expect someone else to be responsible for your decisions. End of story.
I totally agree with what was said.
_____________________________
Ruth
Let us know if you need anything. We won't send what you need, but we will pray for it.
Please remember my nephew in Iraq along with all of the other military personal serving.
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