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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 12:59:45 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 5617
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
percussionlover - You are not understanding. This isn't a matter of forgiveness - and you seem to have an off idea of forgiveness. When Jesus forgave the thief dying next to Him on the cross, He didn't tell folks to cut the guy down and forget his crimes. He promised Him eternity in Paradise.
And forgiveness does not mean we become doormats and risk the very lives of our children. No one is saying we should throw tomatoes at the sex offender and scream hate filled speech at him. We are simply saying that s/he should be watched closely and not be put in a situation where someone could be harmed because s/he messed up again (forgiveness does not mean freedom from temptation or the ability to suddenly be able to resist temptation 100%).
Seriously, this is why predators like to prey on churches... 
Exactly!!
The OP seems unable to relize that using caution with repentant convicted sex offenders in the church does not mean we haven't forgiven them. 
Exactly! Forgiveness does not ever mean that we set ourselves up to have the sins repeated.
My estranged husband and I helped with a jail ministry. Part of what we did was take in some of the inmates when they had been released. On three different occassions, inmates asked us if we would take them in.
1- Was a female who had been arrested for DUIs and had a drug problem. I did a background check and sure enough that is what she was arrested for. She stayed with us for about six weeks. Last I heard, she had become a Christian, got married and was expecting a baby.
2- Was a male who was arrested for assaulting a police officer, gang activity and possession of drugs. The background check confirmed that. He stayed with us for about three months, until he could get into seminary. He's now a pastor with inner-city youth.
3- Would not volunteer any info to us. That sent up about 2000 red flags for me.
Background check showed that he had molested at least one 14 year old girl. Our dd was about 12 at that time.
When I questioned him about it, he said the girl lied and that he had been falsely convicted.
My estranged husband told me that shouldn't matter because he was a Christian now and all of that was forgiven and forgotten by the Lord and we should do the same.
I took him with me to work so that he could get a job. Turned out that several of my co-workers were related to him and many more knew him.
I took him to Wal  Mart, where I worked and bought him a couple of hundred dollars worth of necessities, to my delight and surprise my church reimbursed me for about 75% of that and they paid for him to stay in a motel for a month.
One of the victim's fathers saw him riding his bike one day. The father ran him over, but didn't kill him. He'll never walk again and has severe brain damage. The father is in jail for attempted manslaughter.
My estranged husband has told me several times that one man is now disabled and another man is now in jail because I wouldn't do the "Christian thing" and give the man a home. He's been trying to make me feel guilty about that for around three years now.
Am I sad about what happened? Yes I am.
However, I don't have the time or the energy to waste on feeling guilty.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 1:07:04 PM
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StephK
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From: Southwest Louisiana
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Maybe ministerial alliances need to get together to come up with a solution. These people most definitely need ministering to and fellowship with other Christians but they also still need specific boundaries. One issue I have is that many of these offenders are so manipulative and good at winning the confidence of people in order to set themselves up to groom new victims. I've worked with several sex offenders when I was in case management and every one of the one's receiving case management services ended up reoffending. Several were quite active in church too. Actions speak louder than words. Some offenses simply take a lot of time and observation in order to receive any trust at all. It's up to them to prove themselves.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 1:25:38 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 1738
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From: Saturn
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The son of a couple who attended my church got out of prison. The parents told us it was drug related.
Turns out it was drugs AND child molestation. Our church found this out the hard way. After that (and a huge lawsuit naming the church, the denomination, AND the pastor) we required background checks of anyone working with children and teens. Children were no long allowed to go to the bathroom alone. Parents could not enter the nursery to pick up their kids unless they were workers with background checks done.
See, they guy went to the altar and "prayed through" crying, hugging, blah, blah, blah. Then he felt "called" to work with teens. After the molestation took place, people acted shocked the guy had done this.
He was also positive for hepititus C. It was passed on.
Forgiveness is not the issue. Trust is. The bank of trust is overdrawn when it comes to molesters.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 1:26:46 PM
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earthless
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From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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bluestone speaks common sense.
We sorely need more of it.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 1:36:08 PM
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DenimDiva
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Christians are not called to be stupid. We are not called to blindly follow along. In fact, we are called to do just the opposite. Also, we are told not to tempt our brothers and sisters.
We would not take a former alcoholic to a bar.
We would not take a former porn addict to a porn shop.
Why would we give a former child molester a gathering of children?
Makes no sense. It could cause them to stumble. That stumble would have a huge ripple effect in the lives of the innocent victims. Those victims could wind up with many unnecessary problems because Christians were not on their guard and watching out for them.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 1:39:53 PM
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earthless
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The last two posts (bluestone and denim diva) have restored some of my hope in Christians today.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 2:40:55 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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Here is the proceedure I use at my Church (with pedeophiles).
I do backgrounds on all visitors, and if there is a problem with the check and they return I visit with them about the situation.
I offer them counsel (how ever much is necessary) invite them to the men's ministry night (all men and no children) and tell them if they come back to a regular service at the Church they are to sit back close to the door where I can see them. That they are to leave shortly after Church and if they get up to go to the bathroom or just to wander around during the service: I will stop preaching and go along with them. They are informed that they will not be coming to family fellowships, children's events etc.
Now if they want to become more involved they are ask to come before the congregation and explain who they are, what they have done, and explain about their repentance, counselling, etc. (I have found that folks who are truly repentant of any sin are not embarrased to speak to the Glory of God's Grace and his love and care in the recovery area.
If they are not open to those guidlines I tell them to not come back to the Church, though I still offer private or group counsel from myself and the other leaders of the Church.
A case in point; early last spring a man came to visit, he was fresh out of prison for aggrevated child rape. When confronted he said he had repented, God had forgiven him, that he was a changed man, etc. etc. etc. He absolutely refused to go along with the required restrictions, threatened to sue, etc.
I told him if he came back that I would personally throw him bodily out of the Chuch and off the grounds. He did not come back.
About two months later he was attending a Church in Oklshoma City (about 40 miles away), and he raped and sodimized a nine year old girl in the Church balcony during a family fellowship after Church services.
The child is severly damaged' phusically, spiritually, and emotionally. The Church nearly came completely apart, the Pastor resigned along with the Board of Elders, and many many believers had their faith severly shaken.
The pedeophile just got 40 years (which is not enough), but at least he will not be hurting anyone for a long long time.
Forgiveness is one thing, but lack of common sense or sticking one's head in the sand about the depths of evil in this world is something else.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 3:00:30 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 5617
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
About two months later he was attending a Church in Oklshoma City (about 40 miles away), and he raped and sodimized a nine year old girl in the Church balcony during a family fellowship after Church services.
The child is severly damaged' phusically, spiritually, and emotionally. The Church nearly came completely apart, the Pastor resigned along with the Board of Elders, and many many believers had their faith severly shaken.
The pedeophile just got 40 years (which is not enough), but at least he will not be hurting anyone for a long long time.
Forgiveness is one thing, but lack of common sense or sticking one's head in the sand about the depths of evil in this world is something else.
Thanks
RC
I'm so sorry for what that little girl had to go through.
Thank you for standing up and doing the right thing.
and I vote to put Kat in the group hug. (((((Kat)))))
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 3:00:34 PM
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Qtman
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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IMHO we need more preachers that are not afraid to remove such from the church and I do mean bodily if necessary. There was a day when the preacher would have thrown him out and really cared if the door was opened first or not.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 3:01:38 PM
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earthless
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Lord knows we SORELY need more pastors like RC James.
God bless him.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 3:08:13 PM
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WalkingwithHim2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Lord knows we SORELY need more pastors like RC James.
God bless him.
Ditto
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 3:12:34 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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Joined: 9/6/2007
From: SW Missouri
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First off I would imagine that unless the person who was a sex offender lived in a large city they would move to another town where no one knew them. Second how would people find out? I have seen people come into my church covered in tattoo's and look pretty rough. I have no idea if they are criminals. Many churches if not all require that people who work with children must go through a background check. If that person has any felony they are not allowed to work with children. Would I want a sex offender no matter what he did around my kids in the childrens department? No Way!! I would leave the church and not go back. If they were just attending church and not around kids in any way, I do not think I would have the grounds to say anything. I may not like it I may think about no longer attending church But I also do not let my kids out of my sight, I trust no one. Well Jack goes off with his friends now so perhaps that is not as true as it once was. Jessica stays with me though.
< Message edited by 2monkeysmom -- 4/17/2008 3:25:13 PM >
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<-------- She really loves her daddy!
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 3:38:10 PM
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bluestone
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From: Saturn
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I think any church member who has stood in a hospital waiting area with parents whose child is going through reconstructive anal surgery due to one of these forgiven molestors who has recommitted would tell you:
Keep them out.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 4:29:25 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2814
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From: Sunflower State
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quote:
I do backgrounds on all visitors, and if there is a problem with the check and they return I visit with them about the situation
Not to sound silly or anything like that, but how do you do a check on a visitor? I don't give my information out the first time I walk through a church door.
_____________________________
~Kimmie
 When you go through menopause they don't tell you what you are becoming. I think I'm becoming my Dad.
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 4:32:20 PM
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PrincessDonna
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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I wondered about that too. Don't people have to agree to a background check also?
I personally don't see a reason to check all visitors right off the bat, but our church has some good rules about where people may be that keep them away from the children's areas if they have no business there. We also have some very discerning, watchful people who have been known to head trouble off at the pass. Praise God for them!
_____________________________
Does God see?
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen,
but on what is unseen. 2 Cor. 4:18
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 4:34:25 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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Or the morgue because he did not want to go back to prison or his new found friends that so easily forgave and forgot to find out. I saw a reality dective show that was just that scenario.
Personally I think there should be a ministry for people who have commited sex crimes. It would have to be someone far more compassionate then me. Give these (usually men) a place to worship and fellowship without judgment from other members of the church or even being around women and children.
I also thing stagetory rape laws need to change. A 17 year old slapped with a sex offender mark for the rest of his life for having sex with a girl almost his same age is sad. Now if it was 20 or 30 something with a minor then you bet.
_____________________________
<-------- She really loves her daddy!
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RE: SEX OFFENDERS IN THE CHURCH.... - 4/17/2008 5:10:15 PM
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sjd2008
Posts: 152
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
quote:
I do backgrounds on all visitors, and if there is a problem with the check and they return I visit with them about the situation
Not to sound silly or anything like that, but how do you do a check on a visitor? I don't give my information out the first time I walk through a church door.
Kimmie, you beat me on this one! I was going to ask the same question. Also, how can ou an ffective check without a social security number?
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My heart breaks for the little girl that pervert got to because her church didn't do what you were so diligent to do.
