This just isn't right. (Full Version)

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Mrs.Noah -> This just isn't right. (4/9/2008 10:54:08 PM)

My parents are members of a large SBC. My dad fell and broke his hip four weeks ago tomorrow. He has too many health issues for surgery so stayed in the hospital for eight days and then was moved to a nursing home. He's been there over two weeks and has yet to have the first visit from any of the four pastors. None of the men in my dad's SS class have been to visit either. My folks are very upset about this and so am I. I know pastors are very busy and do not always have time to visit, but I feel like if they can't visit then that responsibility should be given to someone else. The men in the SS class are retired, and I can't imagine what is keeping them away. Their church theme is "Building relationships with a servants heart."

Just wondering how normal this is.



phosadaud -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/9/2008 11:49:22 PM)

I don't know if this is the case here, but this usually happens in my church when the person who is hurt/sick/lonely/etc. doesn't tell the church what's going on and assumes the church should just know.

I think one of the enemies most effective means of hurting believers is called "assumptions". Never assume anything. If there is a problem, the Bible doesn't say assume everyone else is oblivious and get mad. No, Scripture tells us to GO to the person and find out what's going on. It's never fair to get angry at someone when you literally don't know what all the facts are.

Now, if you find out they knew what your dad was going through and didn't care, THEN get mad. Nine times out of ten though, that's not that case. [;)]



funny_girl -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 1:31:32 AM)

I'm sorry about your Dad's health. May I echo what phosadaud has said and encourage you to phone someone at the church at let them know you'd like a visit?

It really is amazing what we expect from others. I wrote a really encouraging e-mail to those that support us Sunday afternoon and expected an overwhelming response. I was really disappointed that 3 people responded leisurely. Yes, I'm disappointed to say the least, but life goes on and I know that my God knows where I am; that will have to be sufficient.



crm4souls -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 2:20:18 AM)

Communication is the key. Go to the pastor and the group to see if there is a misunderstanding or reason no one has visited. If you speak with them and still no one visits, there is a problem with this pastor & group.



Mrs.Noah -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 8:30:47 AM)

The church is aware of what's going on. At least the first Wed. his name was in the prayer bulletin, and he has received several cards.



walkin2e -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 8:37:58 AM)

quote:

then was moved to a nursing home. He's been there over two weeks and has yet to have


I see this all the time. I minister at a nursing home (have been for almost 20 years). Some of the folks who attend are there short term (like your Dad), and are glad that I have a service for them to attend. I recall one old brother (Bro Hoppy). He was a founding father and deacon of a local good sized SBC church...one of the kindest fellers you ever want to meet. He loved our services, and told me he hardly ever got visitors from his old church. He has since gone on to glory but I can still see the shine in his face as we would all sing "I'll Fly Away".

Remember, your Dad belongs to Jesus, and Jesus cares all about Him.

walkin2e



phosadaud -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 10:12:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mrs.Noah

The church is aware of what's going on. At least the first Wed. his name was in the prayer bulletin, and he has received several cards.


Again, go to the Pastor and tell him your concerns. I can't tell you how many times stuff like this is nothing more than misunderstandings and such.

There are ALWAYS two sides to an issue. The church may well be in the wrong, but until you TALK to them, you will never know.



Kat_D -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 10:27:36 AM)

The church may realize he's in the hospital, but (big "but" here), many people do not want visitors when they are in that position. I don't. Because of this, perhaps the church does not send a pastor unless they are requested to visit. I also suggest that you call. Lots of feelings are hurt in the church from assumptions.

I pray your Dad recovers quickly and tht the Lord would richly bless him and your Mom.



WesP -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 10:47:12 AM)

As a point of information, I have never received a visit, phone call, or letter from a church if I was missing for a time. Ever. I had to learn to keep my eyes on the Lord because man will never be able to be all that I need. Do not despair of man's shortcomings. Rejoice in Jesus and do what you can to make sure others do not feel the way you do when these things happen in the future. Lead by example. [;)]



earthless -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 10:54:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

The church may realize he's in the hospital, but (big "but" here), many people do not want visitors when they are in that position. I don't.


Exactly. My sister, for one, abhors visits of any kind to her house or when she is not feeling good, etc. I also do not like to bother people with my issues and or have to inconvenience someone. We all have busy lives and things to do.

I don't expect people to go out of their way to appease me.

Maybe that's just me.



armydude -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 11:14:03 AM)

I agree. It just isn't quite right. Now the big question that's already been raised. Has anyone mentioned to the pastoral staff that your father would like a visit? We could debate all day long about whether or not you should have to do this, but my response would be, "Why not ask?" There are all kinds of reasons as to why he hasn't gotten a visit yet.
They're aware of what's going on as you mentioned earlier, but maybe (just maybe) they're wanting to know that a visit is desired.



phosadaud -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 3:07:19 PM)

I've never been hospitalized before, but I know when I'm sick the only person I want visiting me is my mommy....

(yes, I'm 33 years old...) [8D]



armydude -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 3:31:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: phosadaud

I've never been hospitalized before, but I know when I'm sick the only person I want visiting me is my mommy....

(yes, I'm 33 years old...) [8D]
Nothin' wrong with that. I'm 35 years old, and my mother still refers to me as her baby. You never outgrow it.



Consecrated2God -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/10/2008 3:41:27 PM)

How large is this church? In a big church, where the staff has a lot going on, sometimes time can slip by and two weeks may not feel like a big deal.

I think some of the others had good suggestions about calling and requesting a visit. It's easy to get lost in the shuffle sometimes. Hopefully their hearts are in the right place here and they just need a little reminder.



BibleL7 -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/16/2008 8:41:37 AM)

Four pastors seems it is a big church. Unfortunately no matter the size people are sinners, people are busy, people are afraid of hospitals, people feel awkward about what to say to people in a hospital, people dont care enough, people dont like to be reminded that they are getting old and may have that in their near future, people are sometimes self righteous and think if a person is not healed quickly they dont have faith or are in sin, people think they dont know a person well enough to visit in a hospital, people hate hospitals, people hate doctors and or nurses, people are prejudice against older people, people get sick and end up in other rooms of a hospital, people get colds and other illnesses and prefer to stay away from others. This is a short list of some of the reasons people my not visit in a hospital. Add to this list all the thoughts above then consider that some churches have few people that will make visits on staff and that person or persons may be unaware. Take a pick you are libel to find all of the above in any given church. People are human and goof up or dont think and Christians are people. And as shocking as it may be to some Pastors are people too. Sometimes it takes the people who would like to visit brothers and sisters some time to be able to do it some times people think that somebody else is doing it. Lots of excuses. I would go on an on but I have an excuse to give that I'm getting tired.

Be loving, caring and forgiving. Encourage and pray for your dad and all the less than caring church members and staff. And still call and let the pastor or someone in ministry know that he would like a visit.

Just the opinion of a small town preacher



lhull -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/17/2008 9:53:21 AM)

Hello!

I'm sorry to hear about your Dad. You mentioned that he is a member of a large church. It is possible that a deacon has been assigned to your Dad. It would be his responsibility to visit. I suggest calling the church office and asking to speak to the Church Administrator or his secretary. Ask for the phone number for the Head of the Deacons and explain your need for a visit for your Dad. Then call the Head of the Deacons and let him know. I was a secretary in a large SBC church. It is almost impossible to keep track of everybody, but when we knew, we tried to make sure the right people were contacted. We made mistakes and feelings were hurt, contrary to our intentions and desires. If after you speak with the Head of the Deacons, no action is taken, then contact the Senior Pastor.



jn1010lf -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/17/2008 3:02:10 PM)

Hello Mrs.Noah

Why don't you contact the Pastor and suggest that your dad would appreciate someone calling, merely as a friend. Maybe he could encourage those that know him to visit. I would say that if you get no response, you might find another church.



hjemerson -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/17/2008 4:48:03 PM)

I have seen this happen so many times! In large and small church all the reply are good make a few phone calls to let his friends know your dad is longing for some visit as you the family have noticed. If you do not get some respone to this, I truly belive it May be the way the Lord is showing your family it time to seek service the Lord in another, more people friendly church. Or if your church does not have a Shut in minstery it may be the way of showing to opening doors for a new area of service for you and the church,



lightshineon -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/18/2008 11:16:31 PM)

Well all the excuse can be made up in the world, but someone should have shown they care. What about loving one another? I am sorry this is with respect, and not aimed at anybody on this board, I am sick of excuses why we are not serveing one another in love. This is the pastors, Deacons, Elders, friends, church members responsibility to serve this family. How many would have come if it had been one of the four pastors or their family? And btw, if the pastors are too busy, what with, pray tell. They should be leaders in this area, showing the flock how to be. What is more important than people after The Lord of course.



Kat_D -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/18/2008 11:42:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Well all the excuse can be made up in the world, but someone should have shown they care. What about loving one another? I am sorry this is with respect, and not aimed at anybody on this board, I am sick of excuses why we are not serveing one another in love. This is the pastors, Deacons, Elders, friends, church members responsibility to serve this family. How many would have come if it had been one of the four pastors or their family? And btw, if the pastors are too busy, what with, pray tell. They should be leaders in this area, showing the flock how to be. What is more important than people after The Lord of course.


The sad thing about this is that everyone complains when something isn't done or someone falls through the cracks, yet only a very small percentage of the body ever step up to the plate to help. As a member of my church's staff, our staff is worn very thin because of this glaring lack...people are the church and as such are supposed to do the work of the ministry.

So, with all the respect I can muster, put a lid on it![sm=halo.gif]



GregandJenny -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/18/2008 11:46:03 PM)

Good post Kat!!! The bible even says the saints should be doing the work of the ministry. Why is it that the Pastor (s) or staff should be required to do all of this?

G



Consecrated2God -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/19/2008 8:56:08 AM)

Lightshineon is correct that someone on staff should have been there. Kat and Greg/Jenny are correct that the laypeople should have been there. I agree with all three of the last posts.

So where does the responsibility lie? First, I believe the leaders should be an example by their actions. If they do not see hospital visitation as important, neither will the laity. Yes, the saints should be doing the works of the ministry, but it is the leaders who teach them to do that. If the pastor places value on something by his words and his actions, then the laity will often be stirred to action.

However, the lack of action in a particular case does not necessarily mean that no one cares. It is best to not jump to conclusions and assume that because someone did not do something they should have done, that they are heartless and apathetic. That is why I think the best thing to do would be to make a phone call and ask. Sometimes people do get lost in the shuffle. Maybe that's making excuses, I don't know. All I know is that hurt feelings and misunderstandings happen so easily in cases like this. I know a family that was so hurt because the pastor didn't call about a certain issue, when all the while the pastor was waiting for that family to call him. No one had ever said who was to call whom, it was just a "We need to talk sometime" statement that was never followed up on by either party. The pastor did care, very much, but the family did not feel like he did.



lightshineon -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/19/2008 9:26:22 AM)

Kat did you read my post? I said everyone should have visited, including pastors. If they are so busy I ask again with what Kat? They are to equip the saints. How do you do that, but being a leader? Why you had to be so harsh, I do not know why, is it because this is truth? When budgets, lunch with other pastors so, on and so on become more than people, than something is wrong. Yes, the average Joe needs, must love and visit, but I am sick and tired of how busy ( four) pastors are, well they just cannot make it to see a faithful member. There are lay people, who need to go, send cards whatever. Do you think, they do not have busy lives too? My husband an Elder, and very, very, busy man has spent many hours at the hospital, the pastor calls him alot, to go to ER, and such, and He goes everytime. Once I, Mrs. lay person spent all day at the hospital with a little girl, while parents went to court, then went set up a booth and worked Fall celebration, but, not before cooking and cleaning for my sick mom and dad, takinging care of my husband and three girls, and taking care of mentally ill brother and SIL. So please do not tell me, how four pastors could have not made it to the hospital, and others from Deacons to SS teacher, and class members, people of the Body, should have loved the man enough to make time for him and his family. I did not like the comment "put a lid on it", I hope that this was in jest or that tells me how your church staff feels about caring for its members. Did no one notice he went missing? anybody? The scripture comes to mind where Jesus is seperating the sheeps and the goats........... " When I was sick you did not visit me." Laying down our busy lives for our friends, well it is scriptural. So no I will not put a lid on it Kat. I will shout it from the roof tops. LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Well all the excuse can be made up in the world, but someone should have shown they care. What about loving one another? I am sorry this is with respect, and not aimed at anybody on this board, I am sick of excuses why we are not serveing one another in love. This is the pastors, Deacons, Elders, friends, church members responsibility to serve this family. How many would have come if it had been one of the four pastors or their family? And btw, if the pastors are too busy, what with, pray tell. They should be leaders in this area, showing the flock how to be. What is more important than people after The Lord of course.


The sad thing about this is that everyone complains when something isn't done or someone falls through the cracks, yet only a very small percentage of the body ever step up to the plate to help. As a member of my church's staff, our staff is worn very thin because of this glaring lack...people are the church and as such are supposed to do the work of the ministry.

So, with all the respect I can muster, put a lid on it![sm=halo.gif]



gmedifast -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/19/2008 9:47:56 AM)

Unfortunately this is the shape that our churches have gotten into. I had 2 episdoes of long illness where my church has not stepped up to support me and it hurts. Several years ago I had surgery and my pastor (in a church of less than 100 and I was on staff) did not visit me before, during or after. On top of that the church people completely started to ignore us and everyone dropped us like hot potatoes. Again recently after surgery again, my church---a different church---did very little to support us, howbeit we found out that they were coordinating food and other items for other members in the church in the same situation. It is really easy to get a complex in these situations. I believe the church has lost the ability to care for one another. The church also has to be careful when they "pick and choose" who they are going to take care of. If you do something for one, you need to at least reach out and do it for all people. Both of these churches were less than 100 people so it was not like they did not know we needed help. With the last time, the illness went on for several months and we were out of work and struggling and there were days we did not know if we were going to make it. I told my wife I just wish someone would show they cared.

Oh to be his hand extended



lightshineon -> RE: This just isn't right. (4/19/2008 9:48:31 AM)

Excuses, many lay people do the work, and for free. I am one of them, so I am not speaking out of both sides of my mouth. So no not such a great post. The Bible also says the pastor should equip the saints to good works. The pastor should be required because 1. What is more important than people. 2. He is supported by these people, and he is no more busy than the average person. 3. Part of job description in most churches. It is also average Joes Christians job description. It is called love and caring. I do not want a pastor who does not care, and love me.
quote:

ORIGINAL: GregandJenny

Good post Kat!!! The bible even says the saints should be doing the work of the ministry. Why is it that the Pastor (s) or staff should be required to do all of this?

G



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