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How should we then act??? - 4/10/2008 12:08:32 PM
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stampinlady
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It seems like the latest "feel good" movement has put to shame many of us believers that just don't jump for joy over every ache, sickness, trial and tribulation. Ya, ya we are to "count it all joy" when trials come, but ..... Does God really expect us to always be "jumping for joy?" or .. Is it ok to have down days? Am I making any sense?
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Deb
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/10/2008 12:23:53 PM
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jbow
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God don't want no fakey stuff. If you feel down and act like you feel good maybe it will make you feel better but maybe not. Sometimes you have to work through things. Sometimes sorrrow is leading to something. Sometimes pain is there to call your attention to something. To pretend it is not there could be the wrong thing. It could lead to an unteachable shallowness spiritually. I think if you are hurting you need to be honest about it.. I have been really hurting this morning, and for about a week but today it has come to a head and I have been really sorrowful but I am beginning to see something through it all. I could have been flippant and dismissed my sorrow and said to myself, "be lifted up, all is well, God is in control" and gone my merry way but I just could not do that today. I think God is birthing something in me. I hope so.
I think to take a stand on a scripture like that and apply it to all situations and not deal with your feelings is a spiritual cop out akin to telling people they are not healed because they don't have enough faith.
J
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"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/10/2008 12:27:38 PM
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blue1914
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I was just drawn to this thread for some reason and I guess now I see why.
Joy (over good or bad) is an inward "unction" for lack of a better word and cannot be based upon outward circumstances.
When Paul wrote "I have learned to be content..." he was speaking as one who had been imprisoned, beaten and made to go hungry, etc. etc. He still had joy. Conversely, I am one who lives in the lap of luxury (compared to the rest of the world, an American of any stripe lives a luxurious existence)-never been beaten, never been unduly hungry, never been imprisoned yet I find ways to complain about my circumstances. Maybe I don't have all the "money" I would like, maybe my car isn't the model I would like, maybe my wife is "irritating" me. Wow, I've got it bad, huh? It's really only when I look at life that way that I am able to see the real contrast.
Now-is God's grace big enough to overlook my silly bellyaching over very petty situations (comparatively speaking)-of course it is. Will He still meet me though I am essentially making a mockery of all that He has blessed me with when I complain-I am a witness that indeed He will. What do I get for my complaining and whining-more discontent. THAT'S why we are told to think on those things that are good, pure, noble, etc. etc. Not only does doing the opposite dishoner the gifts that God has given us, it also alters our mood to where we can't even understand all of the blessings that we have been given! Having joy in any circumstance is a blessing to God and an even bigger blessing to US!
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/10/2008 3:23:32 PM
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Ignited-Faith
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God is in control.
God even allows things (illness, or things that cause us pain...)
to teach us lessons that we may not have otherwise learned.
Later we may even thank Him for it!
(I can't tell you enough of how the Lord did much cutting and pruning in my life through the suffering He allowed me to go through with Severe Depression. But oh the Wonderful lessons I was taught! (I think I could write a book!) And again when I sprained my ankle, what pain! But I learned to rest, and see that the world would go on fine without me while I did! I learned to rely on Him, draw near, trust and meditate on His Word,
and really pondered His suffering of the nails in His hands and His Feet...
Then I also found compassion began to grow in my heart for those in wheel-chairs, or on crutches, or missing limbs, or arthritus, etc.
And through it all, He was with me, helping me and blessing me.
Yes, I have learned to "count it all joy!"
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/10/2008 5:02:51 PM
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mvic
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I have never understood people who continuously "feel good" and "jump for joy" because they have been "saved".
Real life is not like that. Sure, Christians have a lot to thank the Lord for but, being human, we also have emotions. Sometimes we are happy, sometimes not. Sometimes hopeful and sometimes in doubt.
When we get to the Pearly Gates St Peter will not ask us whether we "jumped for joy" all the time; neither will he check if we have callous knees because we prayed all the time. Instead he will need to know whether we lived a life which is an example to others. Did we help those less fortunate than ourselves? It will be our actions that count not what we said or how we "jumped for joy".
As jbow put it: God doesn't want "fakey stuff".
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http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/10/2008 7:39:58 PM
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LCannon
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Enjoyment(or pain)is transitory in nature; Paul admonished in Romans 12:15-"Cry in one’s disappointment and revel in their victories 16 and view each other as equals regardless of another’s estate; who knows, you could be in their shoes 17 so never try to pay them back for evil but respect what is right in God’s eyes in sight of all men." however we're not to whine in our circumstance either. "To that Jehovah replied, "Quit whining, I have ordained 7000 souls that cannot be moved from their allegiance to me and make My Glory known in endurance."(Romans 11:4)
The balance comes when we can agree with Paul in his boast, "Because of the surpassing greatness of [His] revelation, there was given me a limitation to keep me from exalting myself! For He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you for My power is refined in weakness." Most gladly then, I will glory in my weakness so that the power of Christ may contrast in me. Therefore, I can be content with my lack, my insult, distresses and difficulties for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong."(2Corithians 12:7,9,10)
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"[Prayer power] hasn't never been taxed to[His]full capacity. His standing challenge, 'Call on
Me and I will answer with great and mighty things which thou can't imagine." Hudson Tayor
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/10/2008 9:50:20 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
never been beaten, never been unduly hungry, never been imprisoned yet I find ways to complain about my circumstances
Yer preachin' to the choir on this one.
We were taught to deny all pain and suffering because to not to do it would mean we were denying Christ in our lives. We claimed our healing and waited for it. While its good to have confidence in the promises of God and I support that, there certainly was a lot of fake joy in that church.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/11/2008 9:24:09 AM
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stampinlady
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quote:
fake joy in that church
Thank you. Am I doing my best? Not always. Do I tend to be lazy? Sometimes? Do I complain? Hmmmmm, working on that one. BUT I'm still a believer despite my faults. I think this is where alot of folks are struggling and getting into these curent false teaching, imo. They're looking for Nirvana here on Earth and I think some believers think this way too. I know the WOF group pushes and "Heaven on Earth" thinking and there's just no biblical support for it. Am I off?
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Deb
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/11/2008 9:51:45 AM
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Liveloved
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quote:
"Heaven on Earth" thinking and there's just no biblical support for it.
Stampinlady,
The 'heaven on earth' that we CAN achieve is coming to that place of rest that Jesus talks about in Matthew 11:28-30. And the writer of Hebrews expands on it in chapters 3 & 4. It is the peace and joy we can have within in the midst of the 'whatevers' in life. It is a settledness, a deep place of knowing and contentment that can only come from finding our true place in Christ.
And that does not come easily or quickly (for most). It comes through pain, struggle, heartbreak, and lesson after lesson until it begins slowly to sink in that what we were seeking all along is NOT what is. It is just knowing Him in the midst of it all that matters. And being in that place of peace and rest. . .always. And then it is like heaven on earth because your heart is at rest in Him.
I'm not there all the time. But I'm on the journey and getting closer. And He's travelling with me. Just trust Him to get ALL that He has promised accomplished in you, with you, and for you. He will! Blessings!!! 
< Message edited by Liveloved -- 4/11/2008 9:58:16 AM >
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/11/2008 9:58:24 AM
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stampinlady
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quote:
It is a settledness, a deep place of knowing and contentment that can only come from finding our true place in Christ
Amen. And Satan is using The New Earth theology to convey a twising of this to itching ears, imo.
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Deb
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/11/2008 10:37:31 AM
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blue1914
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As I'm reading through, I do want to point one thing out quickly.
Joy and happiness are often associated, but that is not necessarily the case all the time.
Joy (a definition) Joy comes from the latin word root gaudia or gaudium It may be best to take a look at the meaning of that word:
gaudium -i n. [joy , gladness, delight; a source of delight].
http://catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?stem=gaud&ending=ia
In general, this MAY describe the emotion of happiness, but not necessarily. While children tend to be a source of delight at all times, there are often times that one may not be happy with them (or more to the point, a decision or decisions that they have made)-at least that has been my experience. To take a time that I am not happy with my son and imply that he does not bring me joy is an inaccurate description.
In life, indeed there will be times that we all display less of the emotion "happiness" than others-Jesus showed us that this as a fact when He grieved and mourned over his friends, etc. That did not in any way imply that He was not full of joy-and what was He full of joy about-that He had the opportunity to die a horrible death and thereby redeem our souls for all time-kind of crazy thing to be joyful about, huh (and again, a great example of the difference between joy and happiness because at the time the "cup" came to Him, He begged the Father to take it from Him. When that didn't happen, He humbly accepted the will of the Father-again with joy but not that much happiness I'm sure)?
Will we always be bubbling over with happiness-I don't see an example of that anywhere in the scripture at any time. That said, as LiveLoved as written, joy is an "inside" job, an acknowledgement that indeed God is in control of all things and we have no need to ever doubt His faithfulness. That hope within us can only produce joy, can it not?
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/11/2008 12:42:29 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Amen. And Satan is using The New Earth theology to convey a twising of this to itching ears, imo.
That is what he does best. That's why he's known as 'wiley'. . .
And he will always find those who are eager for his message as well.
That's why it is so important that we radiate Christ! Bless ya! 
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/11/2008 1:01:52 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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How are we to act?
Faithful, obedient, loving, kind. Showing His love to others regardless of who or what they are or what they have done. (A lot easier to do if we try to see them through His eyes.)
Joyful, sure. But not always jumping up and down. Sometimes that joy is in the peacefulness in your heart, as the Lord walks with you through the storm. God's word says there is a season for everything. I just think we need to show God's love whatever season we're in.
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Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/11/2008 1:04:59 PM
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SonInMe1
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The joy in my old church was fake because of its source, not because there was none. I loved that church and a lot of the reasons why I did love that church was instilled in me by the manipulations of a pastor wishing to further his own goals by making his church our focus and not God.
It WAS wonderful...until the truth came out....as it always will.
Holiness will not save you. It will not keep you saved because if it did then Jesus did nothing on the cross. There would be no need for Grace if we were, or could attain, perfection here in this flesh.
That does not excuse sin, in any form. It does illustrate our NEED for God and that life is about Him, and not us.
Truly to die to self is to have Christ in us and what better position can man have then knowing God loves him, created him and has a plan for his life.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/12/2008 9:53:27 AM
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LivingParadox
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I don't believe in "being fake" but I don't believe in sharing every emotion with every person at every moment, either.
You can be in a miserable situation and have actual joy. As you can have every possible consideration that would make you "happy" and be in despair. Actually I've been in both places. Although it's important to be real and not lie --revealing your emotions openly and honestly are for God and those close to you - not as a public spectator sport.
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/12/2008 12:44:44 PM
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LivingParadox
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I saw the story on "The Last Leture" guy -- I don't think his positive outlook is a fakey thing for him as much as his true disposition. You can take on many hard providences which is encouraging to others with laughter, courage and grace .... I think of fakey as being more you don't really feel that way but you "fake it". Which I think most people do to some extent...which is not good. But I think maybe when it's a plastic personna put on all the time is when it's determental because no one know you are "real".
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/12/2008 2:29:30 PM
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Little_1
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I have a real concern and burden about this subject.
I have watched a little of this guy on the internet and he definately has a very positive disposition but there is something not quite right about someone who's strength comes from 'worldly positive thinking trends' and inner 'self' strength no matter how good these teachings and philosophies are or seem to be. I have a real 'warning bells' in my spirit about this guy and what he is teaching and could only listen to him for a short time.
I do believe that God is reviving many of His people right now and bringing them into a deeper relationship with Himself (which includes joy and peace in the storms of life or in other words contentment in whatever situation they find themselves in) and when God is doing a great work in people's lives - elsewhere in the world, there is a devilish counterfeit at work to counteract such!
We must not punish ourselves for being honest about how we feel. Even the Psalmist David said: "Why are you downcast o my soul?" - then he encouraged Himself in the Lord and said "put your hope in God for I shall yet praise Him my saviour and my God." I find that it is a good thing to encourage yourself in God when you feel sad.
Also, it is possible to know God's joy and peace in the midst of the storms of life as a Christian. I know because I am in the worst storm of my life right now and despite this, I have God's peace and joy present in my life and they are real and sustaining.
I'm not 'jumping up and down' and rejoicing because being totally honest, this is not a situation I would have chosen for myself or loved one but God is sustaining us in the midst of one of the worst times in our lives and I know that nothing can separate us from God's love - not even this difficult situation we find ourselves in - Hallelujah.
I do believe in my heart that the Lord allows all things to work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose - even tragic circumstances like ours.
What I want to know is what is God wanting to teach me/us in this situation? So far - He is teaching that His grace really is sufficient no matter what we face each day and knowing His presence and loving care is something to be joyful about no matter what you are going through.
Joy is not 'happy clappy, jumping up and down' feelings - for me joy is strength to face today in the power of God's Holy Spirit. It is knowing God is with you no matter what today holds. Joy is an inner conviction that all is well despite the outwards circumstances and this same joy gives you God's supernatural strength to cope in unnatural situations. I hope this helps you to understand that joy is not a mushy feeling - it is much more precious than that. To sum it up - the joy of the Lord really is our strength - strength to face any situation. "Thank you precious Jesus."
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 4/12/2008 3:32:59 PM >
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I was lost but Jesus found me.
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/12/2008 3:06:45 PM
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Walker311
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I hope that I'm understanding the OP with my response.
I am emotional and have a great deal of trouble hiding my feelings. If I have a problem, I am so intense that I will not or cannot rest until I have a solution.
So, I have learned to take me out of the "fix it now" solution because it is my attempt to work without God's guidance and failure is almost always the common result.
I personally do not understand how any human being can find peace, rest, and joy without God.
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/12/2008 3:15:22 PM
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terryjohn
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Christ shows us a full range of emotions in His ministry, He wept with those who wept and mourned with those who mourned. Hence, while we may discount our own trials as nothing in light of the hope we have and the glory that will be revealed in us, we want to be otherwise about the pain, suffering and lack of faith of others least they get the wrong idea.
Considering the state of our nation, we too should be brought to tears, beat our chests and cover our heads with sack cloth and ashes for the lost and the sins they and we committ. For those who rejoice now will weep in the time to come and those who weep now will rejoice in the time to come. I personally find very little to rejoice in except the potential I see for the glory of God in others.
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/12/2008 7:35:45 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
joy is strength to face today in the power of God's Holy Spirit. It is knowing God is with you no matter what today holds. Joy is an inner conviction that all is well despite the outwards circumstances and this same joy gives you God's supernatural strength to cope in unnatural situations.
Amen, Little_1! He has taught me this as well. All IS well. Amen and amen. Bless you, sister!
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/13/2008 1:29:51 PM
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stampinlady
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Little1, that was a great post.
Oh, I'm not at all saying that Mr. Pausch is fake at all, but I am concerened where his joy is coming from. I do believe that Satan is alive an working, just how I'm not so sure.
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Deb
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/13/2008 4:47:35 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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quote:
Original: Walker311
I personally do not understand how any human being can find peace, rest, and joy without God.
And I say, Amen!
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/14/2008 9:39:26 AM
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stampinlady
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From: Northern IL
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I think these people have been fooled by Satan and his use of counterfeit ways.
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Deb
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RE: How should we then act??? - 4/14/2008 3:16:31 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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How should we then act???
It's not about how you act--it's about WHY you act. I too saw the program on Dr. Pauche, and I do remember that his father was a presbyterian minister--and he said he often recited the Serenity Prayer. This guy could be a christian. He may not come out-right and say it so that his book/video sells more (kind of like the psuedo/christian music artists like switchfoot), but he just may be a christian.
I think God really does want us to have abiding joy. Because He knows that in a sinful fallen world of sickness and pain, joy really is a choice. EVERYDAY you must choose what you will be. God is in essence saying TAKE CONTROL of your life, emotions, feelings--otherwise known as self-control. This doesn't mean you cannot cry or feel down--but who wants to feel sad or upset always? Sometimes the only way to not feel upset, sad or depressed, is to CHOOSE not to. You see, God knows how He has made us. We are creatures of WILL. We have the right to choose and will to do what we want. God is telling us via the Bible to CHOOSE life and light. CHOOSE joy. That is what Paul is saying when he says count it all joy. Because ONLY YOU can CHOOSE to count it as such.
Fallen man lives in an almost entirely REACTIVE state. We react to our feelings, thoughts, and environments. Also known as CONFORMITY. Jesus Christ is telling us to IMPACT our own thoughts, feelings, environments with His Power and the freedom He has given us. God is telling us to be ACTIVE instead of REACTIVE. God is telling us to transform (from the inside out--inward choice reflected outwardly) ourselves through Him. We are to RENEW our minds in Him.
God says, "I have given you POWER." That means, you CAN DO IT. He tells us over and over, "I will help you. Fear not." He's saying, you can choose and I will help you. The Bible says, do not curse the darkness, but let your light shine before men. He's saying, GO CHANGE the world, don't let the World and its cares, aches, pains and woes change you. Why would He tell us this??? Because the world is FULL of aches, pains, and woes and that will not EVER change until Jesus Christ comes. So, in order for us to have a more abundat and full life--EVEN HERE ON EARTH, we must CHOOSE to reach up higher. It's not easy, but its so worth it. He gives us this hope--and tells us that this hope will not make us ashamed.
So, its not about how you act, it's about why you act. It's about choosing the good thing. Whatever is lovely, pure, just, noble, think on these. It's a choice.
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